Can someone check the new property fence content?

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-17 23:31:58

https://edge.onetech.info/

I haven't done the coding for the "owned" aspect yet (which only affects gates). That's what I'll be doing tomorrow.

But do the transitions and such make sense? Did I miss anything?

The "grave on gate" transitions specify what happens when the last owner dies. Also, note that gates can never become rickety. They exist until the last owner dies.

Thaulos · 2019-04-18 00:05:43

They seem mostly fine with maybe a couple issues:

1) No vertical owned gate.
2) Does the timer on the shacky gates reset every time you open/close a door?
3) When the owner dies: Instead getting "one twig + rope" you get a "Property Fence Twigs". This is inconsistent with the result of manually destroying the gate.
4) "Property Fence Twigs" seem to be infinite in quantity.

Last edited by Thaulos (2019-04-18 00:07:19)

Glassius · 2019-04-18 01:25:11

It is happening. I will quote myself

Glassius wrote:

Again, deux ex machina giving narrativnes over interactivness

karltown_veteran · 2019-04-18 01:33:33

eyyyyyyyyyy property yas

antking:]# · 2019-04-18 01:36:02

I think that this idea would work better if every one in the family could open the gate!

so befor you tell me that it wouldn't work because an entire village is one family my thoughts is that you can change the last name of a child if you name them like this: name lastname

this could reinforce the bond between close family and will allow for individual family properties! a family farm as you might call it!

BladeWoods · 2019-04-18 02:45:20

Is the Property Fence Twigs supposed to be a clothing item that can be worn on the head? Because it is.

And the stone hatchet can take down shaky property fences but the steel axe cannot. Intentional?

Last edited by BladeWoods (2019-04-18 02:47:33)

pein · 2019-04-18 07:24:45

destroying ropes or stealing them for not approving?

property fences need free tiles around them, possibly both sides
you could and should build roads there but not block them with walls or buildings

some kind of "door mat"
otherwise others approve it but then just starve you inside
also i could imagine a property zone, nicely set up with roads in middle

not talking about noobs wanting their property 3 tiles under the kiln, that just gonna be so annoying, maybe it even ends up approved cause they are there sooner
lot more suicides for not getting a property or access to stuff inside one
but i can see that can work

do we get access to it if we got back and still stands? last time on s12 i made 100% of backpacks and 3 knives and they told me they not sure if they can trust me, but they would surely trust the firstborn girl even if it's a griefer

also i will get cursed by having more stuff and not sharing with their 15 kids

doesn't mix well with the current form of cursing

st2019 · 2019-04-18 08:09:57

No high tech resources are needed to build the "JR Property System©". That's great! Also I like the opportunity to build parallel entrances.

What if I build a closed loop of "Property Fence" and it gets approved and unshaky/robust? Are people really locked out/ locked in for 60 minutes?

Can anyone tear down a shaky fence or just their owners?

Last edited by st2019 (2019-04-18 08:18:40)

breezeknight · 2019-04-18 09:23:53

can the Shaky Property Gate be set back only with a hatchet & not with an axe ?

@st2019
fence has no owners, only gate has
you & anybody else have 20 minutes to get out of the shaky property enclosure or set it back to twigs

@pein
we have to have property in game, there is no way around it, trading & wars won't be possible without it

it will be painful & full of new griefing options, so the functionality will have to be improved over time
but atm nobody can predict how the things will work out in gameplay or which problems will be bearable & which not,
we have to test it in game, over time

BladeWoods wrote:

Is the Property Fence Twigs supposed to be a clothing item that can be worn on the head? Because it is.

that's neat !
so you can transport two at once with bare hands already

is this the gateway to baskets balanced on head ? <3

- - -

Last edited by breezeknight (2019-04-18 09:41:39)

Booklat1 · 2019-04-18 09:23:55

Glassius wrote:

It is happening. I will quote myself
Glassius wrote:
Again, deux ex machina giving narrativnes over interactivnesshttps://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/disappointed-but-not-suprised-doge-meme.jpg

property magic for a survival game with actual infinite food, genius design

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-04-18 09:25:12)

breezeknight · 2019-04-18 09:41:03

Glassius wrote:

It is happening. I will quote myself
Glassius wrote:
Again, deux ex machina giving narrativnes over interactivnesshttps://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/disappointed-but-not-suprised-doge-meme.jpg

maybe you're right

if we wanted to get out of the magic of that fence,
then we would need an info blackboard, where all members of the town could vote if they approve the current property built
but this would also mean that we had to have some option for the town members count, something like a citizenship record, where a newborn had to be registered by the name giver

looks like we need some town management related tools

maybe the property fence is just sort of a test, how something like that plays out
Jason can still remove it, if it starts to cause too many problems
but i think, a property feature is worth a test run

- - -

pein · 2019-04-18 10:12:13

walls didn't bring us too many good things
they still take up the free space, cover tiles and block others

i could imagine force fields where you can walk over it but cant interact with items unless you trade it via a shop system like a box with a lid which swaps the items if agreed upon, you put in your part, other player too, if agreed it swaps places and owner

what is a quite bad problem, that the game still doesn't really know what is a city
now you place a kiln, newbees think it's a town center so they bring all the shit near it

they put a random oven to a random spot then boards then walls
rooms before pen, floors before carts
shoes before buckets
then if someone makes a pen they make clothes

now if you born a boy and they just toss every property to girls you are not only locked out of clothes, even the structures made are locked out for you

i got back to dutch town and i swear only the amount of grabage grown under 9 gen
they used up the ready adobe i brought, they made some stew farm, some berries planted, and kinda that's it

the highest technology in big cities is actual free tiles

now you make a property, i destroy your gate, take you rope, make mine, block the entrance with bell base, hide all shovels, take it for myself
not the most optimal

i fill my property and when i go in someone locks me so i starve, not the best hopes

i mean it can work if you set up a road and the whole fences but each person makes it's own gate and mentors a kid younger than him, so the rights stay at someone all the time

people don't really build or build good stuff, it gonna be interesting social experiment anyway

breezeknight · 2019-04-18 12:56:23

pein wrote:

...
what is a quite bad problem, that the game still doesn't really know what is a city
now you place a kiln, newbees think it's a town center so they bring all the shit near it

why do you think i insist on making main roads, center of town, main crossroads ?

so that everybody can have some main orientation in game

cause so far stuff is being built anywhere
most placements are dysfunctional
still the same : berry bush cancer growing out of hand, fast roads between buildings, fast roads leading straight to doors, kiln & oven with no space above,
forge with not enough space to ... forge, newcomen engines built somewhere, same as with the new loom, both not moveable afaik
what is the result of the dysfuncitonality ? people wander aimlessly between areas, which are not clear what their function is

now you make a property, i destroy your gate, take you rope, make mine, block the entrance with bell base, hide all shovels, take it for myself
not the most optimal
i fill my property and when i go in someone locks me so i starve, not the best hopes
i mean it can work if you set up a road and the whole fences but each person makes it's own gate and mentors a kid younger than him, so the rights stay at someone all the time
people don't really build or build good stuff, it gonna be interesting social experiment anyway

yeah, it will be quite a chaos, that's for sure
it will have growing pains
just take it easy & try to make the best out of it, cause we have to have a property option, the gameplay is stuck without it

- - -

Booklat1 · 2019-04-18 13:01:49

Thaulos wrote:

4) "Property Fence Twigs" seem to be infinite in quantity.

also, non decayable

DestinyCall · 2019-04-18 14:22:40

From what I've seen, we can't trust our ancestors to build properly shaped berry patches. I can't imagine property fences or property gates will be any better. Enclosed spaces are already highly griefable death traps. I don't see the upside. How are we suppose to use these to improve the village?

Booklat1 · 2019-04-18 14:54:46

DestinyCall wrote:

From what I've seen, we can't trust our ancestors to build properly shaped berry patches. I can't imagine property fences or property gates will be any better. Enclosed spaces are already highly griefable death traps. I don't see the upside. How are we suppose to use these to improve the village?

By making eay pen as an eve. Which is terrible if you ask me.

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-04-18 14:55:00)

Redram · 2019-04-18 15:29:47

breezeknight wrote:

cause we have to have a property option, the gameplay is stuck without it

We don't. Players do not live long enough to make this of any use, and there is nothing worth owning individually anyway. The idea is full of imbalance and griefing potential. The fact that Jason is using a game like Rust (which is nothing like ohol) as precedent for this tells you how this is going to fit in ohol.

Booklat1 · 2019-04-18 15:42:00

Redram wrote:

breezeknight wrote:
cause we have to have a property option, the gameplay is stuck without it
We don't. Players do not live long enough to make this of any use, and there is nothing worth owning individually anyway. The idea is full of imbalance and griefing potential. The fact that Jason is using a game like Rust (which is nothing like ohol) as precedent for this tells you how this is going to fit in ohol.

we do actually have ways to keep property already. Bag + pants is 6 items. Yet we don't see trade or fights over items. People dont even use keys and locks for their intended purpose.

fences should at least cost kindling and not be spammable.

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-04-18 15:43:34)

Redram · 2019-04-18 15:50:54

Booklat1 wrote:

fences should at least cost kindling and not be spammable.

Nobody would waste the time it takes to gather all that kindling. And anyone that wastes all those axe uses should be killed. Kindling is way more useful to the community as fire and charcoal. He could have made the twigs one-bundle-per-tree, so they weren't magically easily infinite. Could have given an actual use to the currently useless trees, even.

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-18 16:09:34

Cleaning up a fence is as easy as placing it (I will think today about ways to make it even easier to clean up), and even if you don't clean it up, it only lasts 13 minutes (from proposed, to approved, to vanish). People can already "spam" with all sorts of things (milkweed seeds, leaves, wheat seed heads, etc.), and those things have no easy way to clean up.

If someone is spamming fencs, they are a griefer. Kill them just like you would for any other type of griefer.

Fences may have a cost in the future. But I wanted to test it with no cost, so that they aren't balanced against other uses of the same resources (fires, tools, etc.) These property fences are an abstract notion. I want you to use them in an unfettered way at first, so you really get a chance to kick the tires and explore the possibilities.

To answer questions:

1. Will fix the hat thing, thanks.

2. Gates only on east-west (horizontal) fences are intentional, because vertical gates would be hard to see and hard to click on (vertical doors are similarly hard to see/use, but at least they are a different color than the walls). I'm just skipping solving this problem for now. So, make your gate easy for everyone to see for now, okay?

3. Shaky gate timer does not reset. See this code change https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … d2dd81a4d4 (and this may affect a few other things... not sure).

4. Fixed so that rope not lost when last gate owner dies.

5. Fixed so that axe can take down shaky gates and fences.

6. Most importantly: Booklat, what do you mean by infinite food? I'm not saying that there are no food leaks in the game.... but you guys need to tell me about them so that I can fix them.

Booklat1 · 2019-04-18 16:24:24

jasonrohrer wrote:

6. Most importantly: Booklat, what do you mean by infinite food? I'm not saying that there are no food leaks in the game.... but you guys need to tell me about them so that I can fix them.

I mean 3 things actually, combined starvation is impossible for good players:
1 all food is cheap soil/water-wise, and after pumps iron is plenty.
2 mutton pies and milk exist, one is a byproduct of the most important activity in any village, the other is so broken it piles when made, both cost essentially one water when done right
3 if food in town does run out we have fast regenerating easy consuming wild food.

so its an infinite amount of bad food and cheap AF good food that make survival meaningless after sheep

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-04-18 16:25:43)

futurebird · 2019-04-18 16:52:57

Booklat1 wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
6. Most importantly: Booklat, what do you mean by infinite food? I'm not saying that there are no food leaks in the game.... but you guys need to tell me about them so that I can fix them.

I mean 3 things actually, combined starvation is impossible for good players:
1 all food is cheap soil/water-wise, and after pumps iron is plenty.
2 mutton pies and milk exist, one is a byproduct of the most important activity in any village, the other is so broken it piles when made, both cost essentially one water when done right
3 if food in town does run out we have fast regenerating easy consuming wild food.
so its an infinite amount of bad food and cheap AF good food that make survival meaningless after sheep

It's only "infinite" if someone is keeping that cycle going and often that person is me even though I'd rather be making a radio or building. I always count the pies and check the food supply and almost always it isn't stable at all. It's low enough that newer players will die and you need to keep them alive if you don't want a population crash. Yes, with enough experience food isn't a problem, you can forage, make a pie or two put it in your pack and be set for life and work on something else, but have you noticed that when you do that you look up from whatever you are working on to find everyone else is dead?

It's not terrible, you got to make your building or radio but no one will ever use it because no one with enough experience was watching the berries or pies. If you want to have a town that lasts, you can't take your eyes off of either for long.

Booklat1 · 2019-04-18 17:03:15

futurebird wrote:

I always count the pies and check the food supply and almost always it isn't stable at all. It's low enough that newer players will die and you need to keep them alive if you don't want a population crash. Yes, with enough experience food isn't a problem, you can forage, make a pie or two put it in your pack and be set for life and work on something else, but have you noticed that when you do that you look up from whatever you are working on to find everyone else is dead?
.

Your point being food doesnt run out but people are noobs?

People starving while food exists doesnt change that anyone with half a brain cant starve. This whole nice guy attitude 'think about the noobs' makes no sense because in a few days those players will just learn, you can even help. But doesnt mean a survival game should become club fucking penguin

Tarr · 2019-04-18 17:13:40

jasonrohrer wrote:

6. Most importantly: Booklat, what do you mean by infinite food? I'm not saying that there are no food leaks in the game.... but you guys need to tell me about them so that I can fix them.

Stuff like threshed wheat and meats need to actually decay and not "someday" but sooner rather than later. Your towns composting will eventually lead to threshed wheat biomes which are an absolute pain in the ass to clear up so no one naturally does it. I spent a whole life just making bread and do you know how many loaves I made? 65. Threshed wheat piles will absolutely outlive your town population and likely the next family to live there too.

Meat is likely to do the same thing depending on whether or not people feel like cooking it. Raw rabbits are famous for eventually becoming landfill staples as a hunter will produce much more raw rabbits than a town will need during his hour of living.

Make threshed wheat decay
Make pork decay (so I can stop dumping it out in the wilderness)
Make mutton decay
Make raw rabbit decay.

You should either use the stuff in your lifetime, do some sort of preservation (salted meats/jerky/etc), or just lose it for wanting to keep a biome of meat laying around for 600 years.

Also (eventually) the invisible bonus should be lowered down to +1 or ripped off entirely as we're at 44 different food options if I recall correctly. In the current version of the game if you dress yourself appropriate you need to eat 14-15 different foods your entirely life and you're just done eating.

futurebird · 2019-04-18 17:17:14

New players aren't people with "half a brain" they just don't know as much as you know about the game. Perhaps staying alive yourself takes up so much of your time that you aren't up to the challenge of supporting more people? There is nothing "nice guy" about it. A newer player can have a good time making stew (like I did when I started) or making a farm or getting clothing. This makes room for more people to work on the higher tech. If your village is an unfriendly place for newer players it stands a greater change of diying out. New players can have expert kids. And in the meta, they become better players who keep the game alive.

This game isn't hard enough to justify all of the strutting people do about how pro they are. Anyone can learn this game. Do we give them a reason to stay or not?

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-04-17 23:31:58

Can someone check the new property fence content?

#2 2019-04-18 00:05:43

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#3 2019-04-18 01:25:11

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#4 2019-04-18 01:33:33

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#5 2019-04-18 01:36:02

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#6 2019-04-18 02:45:20

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#7 2019-04-18 07:24:45

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#8 2019-04-18 08:09:57

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#9 2019-04-18 09:23:53

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#10 2019-04-18 09:23:55

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#11 2019-04-18 09:41:03

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#12 2019-04-18 10:12:13

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#13 2019-04-18 12:56:23

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#14 2019-04-18 13:01:49

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#15 2019-04-18 14:22:40

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#16 2019-04-18 14:54:46

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#17 2019-04-18 15:29:47

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#18 2019-04-18 15:42:00

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#19 2019-04-18 15:50:54

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#20 2019-04-18 16:09:34

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#21 2019-04-18 16:24:24

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#22 2019-04-18 16:52:57

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#23 2019-04-18 17:03:15

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#24 2019-04-18 17:13:40

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

#25 2019-04-18 17:17:14

Re: Can someone check the new property fence content?

Board footer