Can someone check the new property fence content?

Booklat1 · 2019-04-18 17:28:38

futurebird wrote:

New players aren't people with "half a brain"

This is exactly my point, new payers learn

Production efficiency doesnt concern new players in the slightest cause they arent producers, it just makes sharing harder

again, you're talking nice guy, im talking game balance. Even removing actual infinite wild foods make stew, pies and milk still pile.

After the first corn you can make 140 food per water when milking a cow. You wanna tell me that 4 bushes out of one water isnt too easy?

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-18 17:31:47

What wild food regenerates? Berries is the only one, right?

If milk is so good, it's weird that no one uses it. I also saw it at the top of the list of food-per-iron.

http://onehouronelife.com/foodStats.php

Tarr · 2019-04-18 17:34:43

jasonrohrer wrote:

What wild food regenerates? Berries is the only one, right?
If milk is so good, it's weird that no one uses it. I also saw it at the top of the list of food-per-iron.
http://onehouronelife.com/foodStats.php

Milk is incredibly boring. Good food =/= fun food to make. When you can make all the food you need in a lifetime in two rounds of milking a cow you sort of defeat the purpose of doing anything in the game. When people had unlimited bananas we seen them just stand around and eat bananas instead of climb the tech tree. When people could stack and unstack carrots for food you would get groups of people just spending their life around a carrot pile doing nothing.

Food can be crazy good but if it's unenjoyable to use why make it? I swore off of doing milk only diets week one of the cow update because how unenjoyable the game is when you have no real sort of food limit since most of this game is based around making food and eating it.

futurebird · 2019-04-18 17:47:13

Booklat1 wrote:

futurebird wrote:
New players aren't people with "half a brain"
This is exactly my point, new payers learn
Production efficiency doesnt concern new players in the slightest cause they arent producers, it just makes sharing harder
again, you're talking nice guy, im talking game balance. Even removing actual infinite wild foods make stew, pies and milk still pile.
After the first corn you can make 140 food per water when milking a cow. You wanna tell me that 4 bushes out of one water isnt too easy?

Easy isn't the issue. The issue is there are not enough ways to store the resources you create in each stage of production so you can't so a single job well for a life and build up that resource in many cases without making the town a mess. Not enough items stack.

futurebird · 2019-04-18 17:52:54

jasonrohrer wrote:

What wild food regenerates? Berries is the only one, right?
If milk is so good, it's weird that no one uses it. I also saw it at the top of the list of food-per-iron.
http://onehouronelife.com/foodStats.php

Milk isn't portable so it only solves food for people who stay in one area. That and the large number of buckets need it tend to make people use it less often. I agree that it isn't as fun to make. Making pies is fun, but there are a lot of bottlenecks in the process. Making burritos is fun, but labor intensive since you have to keep lighting a fire and most of the tools are not distinctive. Making stew is fun, but like milk it's not as useful as pies or berries since you can't take it with you.

I don't think food is too hard, but I do think that it's too disorganized. Often I will simply start removing items from the bakery that don't belong bring some flour and BAM someone starts making pies. But moving all those bowls of carnitas and salsa that you can't put in carts is a drag. Organizing a town bring it to life but it's the least fun thing ever since so many things have to be moved one at a time ... like making 7 trips to move carnitas and salsa to their own area.

Redram · 2019-04-18 17:57:48

jasonrohrer wrote:

What wild food regenerates? Berries is the only one, right?http://onehouronelife.com/foodStats.php

Cactus fruit. Eggs. Rabbits. On the opposite end from food leaks, can we get potatoes fixed? Just one shovel use digs them all and leaves them sitting on the row? So it doesn't take 10 uses of a shovel to harvest a full row? This food stuff seems like it'd better as a separate topic, honestly.

Booklat1 · 2019-04-18 18:10:18

futurebird wrote:

Booklat1 wrote:
futurebird wrote:
New players aren't people with "half a brain"
This is exactly my point, new payers learn
Production efficiency doesnt concern new players in the slightest cause they arent producers, it just makes sharing harder
again, you're talking nice guy, im talking game balance. Even removing actual infinite wild foods make stew, pies and milk still pile.
After the first corn you can make 140 food per water when milking a cow. You wanna tell me that 4 bushes out of one water isnt too easy?
Easy isn't the issue. The issue is there are not enough ways to store the resources you create in each stage of production so you can't so a single job well for a life and build up that resource in many cases without making the town a mess. Not enough items stack.

Mutton is 3x as stackable as it was and nothing changed concerning trade. A lot of items were buffed to stack more and we still dont trade. most forge items stack now too.

I can easily carry 6 pies in myself, add 18 more from a rubber cart and its 24. Is this not enough?

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-04-18 18:11:15)

futurebird · 2019-04-18 18:12:53

No it isn't enough because since then even more items have been added that don't stack and can't even be put in carts. The stacking carrots made a HUGE difference IMO that's why it's my user icon.

Also the issue with trade has to do with villages not lasting long enough to find an identity and find what that place will do that no other does at the same level. I mean we have the start of such things with rubber towns and goose towns, but just as a place starts to become a place it dies.

And what is the cause of that? It's a number of factors but top of the list is babies who /die and after that disorganization.

Last edited by futurebird (2019-04-18 18:15:13)

Booklat1 · 2019-04-18 18:16:12

jasonrohrer wrote:

What wild food regenerates? Berries is the only one, right?

No, but I wont help you nerf the wrong thing again lol, I learned my lesson after skins.

The reason being wild foods are the least of problems since they dont help the whole pop as futurebird said, sheep and cows being powerhouses while pigs do nothing is much worse

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-04-18 18:28:41)

Buggy · 2019-04-18 19:23:06

Tarr wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
6. Most importantly: Booklat, what do you mean by infinite food? I'm not saying that there are no food leaks in the game.... but you guys need to tell me about them so that I can fix them.
Stuff like threshed wheat and meats need to actually decay and not "someday" but sooner rather than later. Your towns composting will eventually lead to threshed wheat biomes which are an absolute pain in the ass to clear up so no one naturally does it. I spent a whole life just making bread and do you know how many loaves I made? 65. Threshed wheat piles will absolutely outlive your town population and likely the next family to live there too.
Meat is likely to do the same thing depending on whether or not people feel like cooking it. Raw rabbits are famous for eventually becoming landfill staples as a hunter will produce much more raw rabbits than a town will need during his hour of living.
Make threshed wheat decay
Make pork decay (so I can stop dumping it out in the wilderness)
Make mutton decay
Make raw rabbit decay.
You should either use the stuff in your lifetime, do some sort of preservation (salted meats/jerky/etc), or just lose it for wanting to keep a biome of meat laying around for 600 years.
Also (eventually) the invisible bonus should be lowered down to +1 or ripped off entirely as we're at 44 different food options if I recall correctly. In the current version of the game if you dress yourself appropriate you need to eat 14-15 different foods your entirely life and you're just done eating.

The decay stuff is in dire need imo. When I was playing last night in a late game village my twin spent our whole life moving tomatoes, onions, and pork to the wild. While I made tortilla chips just to free the salsa bowls. It is super frustrating that all the tiles get filled with tomatoes, wheat, and sids baby skeletons. Sorry this is off topic but I really strongly agree with Tarr

futurebird · 2019-04-18 19:29:28

I would prefer storage and the ability to empty bowls in to a trash pit more than decay (surplus! surplus!) but if I can't have that I will take decay. It's not fun to play in a messy town and less fun to try to clean it up while people make more messes.

Thaulos · 2019-04-18 20:18:24

Jason, please add an option to list and remove access to people and the an ability to specify a heir.

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-18 20:32:55

Futurebird, sounds like you can keep your own property nice and neat with the new fences. The commons tend to be a mess.

Thaulos... I think keeping it simple and messy is going to be more interesting. Deciding to add someone to the list of owners should be a difficult decision, not an obvious one where you add anyone willey nilley and remove them later. Whatever owners are alive after you die are your heirs.

If you want to implement heirship (where you control the thing exclusively until you die), you would assign a new owner at the very end of your life.

Casey (my local designer friend) warned me against the temptation of designing the perfect system that handles every case for players.

Amon · 2019-04-18 20:58:09

When I get back to the game I think i'll try get a milkweed farm right next to town fenced in and see how people react to it and devote my life to it.

And see how rope trading goes.

Last edited by Amon (2019-04-18 20:58:27)

Glassius · 2019-04-18 22:01:19

Amon, why did you not do it with normal fence and locks?

DestinyCall · 2019-04-18 22:20:13

I'm a little confused on how this all works in-game, based on the transitions. Please correct me if I have something worng or if I am missing a step.

Use a piece of flint on long branch to make some sticks. Use these sticks on any patch of empty ground to form a proposed property fence. At this stage, the sticks can be picked up and moved around by hand, but if they are left in one spot for longer than three minutes, they transition to an approved fence. At the "propsed" stage, you can also add a rope to the fence to make it into a proposed gate instead. If the fence becomes "approved" it can be turned into a "shakey" fence by hitting it with a round rock. If no one hits it with a rock, it will vanish (decay) in ten minutes. You can still pick it up and move it by hand at this stage, but that would reset it back to a "proposed" fence. Shakey property fences are stronger. They can't be removed by hand, so you need a hatchet or ax to take them down. You cannot place a gate into a shakey fence and it blocks movement, like a wall or oven base. After twenty minutes, it becomes a solid property fence. This fence can't be removed by hand or with any tool. It will decay to a rickety fence in thirty minutes. A rickety fence cannot be removed by hand or by any tool. It can be repaired using a round stone, which restores it to a solid property fence. If it is not repaired, it will decay back to sticks in thirty minutes. To make a property gate, you need to make a proposed property fence first, then add a rope. After three minutes, the "proposed" gate becomes an "approved" gate. During that three minute time period, you can pick up the rope to cancel the gate or move it to a new location. Once the gate is "approved", you can claim it by using a round stone, creating a shakey gate (owned by the person with the rock). Shakey gates work like shakey fences. They cannot be taken down by hand, but you can still break them by using a hatchet or ax. This will reduce the shakey gate to a "proposed" gate, which can be taken down completely or claimed by someone else when it becomes "approved" in three minutes. If an approved gate remains unclaimed for ten minutes, it decays down to one rope. If a shakey gate is left undisturbed, it will stabilize after twenty minutes into a solid property gate owned by the person who claimed it. Property gates cannot be destroyed and do not decay over time. The property gate will transition to a "proposed gate" when the last owner of the gate dies.

Did I miss anything?

One major issue I notice from looking at the transitions - property sticks should be destructable. Can we get a transition that converts property sticks to kindling using axe or hatchet?

futurebird · 2019-04-18 22:58:56

Sounds a lot harder than removing a row of berry bushes.

futurebird · 2019-04-18 23:00:17

If I build a huge fence around a whole town what happens to the people inside? Can they leave through gates? Can they get back in?

DestinyCall · 2019-04-18 23:31:04

futurebird wrote:

If I build a huge fence around a whole town what happens to the people inside? Can they leave through gates? Can they get back in?

Why make any gates? lol

But speaking seriously, if you construct a large property fence around the town and it goes unnoticed for at least twenty three minutes so it loses its "shakey" status, then the fence will be unremovable for at least sixty minutes. Or if you do this and make sure to remove all rope, milkweed, hatchets, and axes from the inside, then you don't even need to wait twenty minutes. It only takes three minutes for a proposed fence to mature into an approved fence. If the people inside a shakey fence lack access to the necessary tools, they are trapped, unless there is a gap or open gate in the fenceline. The gate is owned by whoever builds it. Owning a gate does not block people from passing through an open gate. But only the gate's owner can toggle the gate open or closed. So if someone built a wall around town, but left multiple open gates, people could come and go as long as the gates were left open. You could technically do this on purpose to make a "walled town", but I don't see any point beyond griefing. It would give way too much power to the gate keeper(s) and no real benefit to anyone else.

futurebird · 2019-04-18 23:38:21

DestinyCall wrote:

futurebird wrote:
If I build a huge fence around a whole town what happens to the people inside? Can they leave through gates? Can they get back in?
Why make any gates? lol
But speaking seriously, if you construct a large property fence around the town and it goes unnoticed for at least twenty three minutes so it loses its "shakey" status, then the fence will be unremovable for at least sixty minutes. Or if you do this and make sure to remove all rope, milkweed, hatchets, and axes from the inside, then you don't even need to wait twenty minutes. It only takes three minutes for a proposed fence to mature into an approved fence. If the people inside a shakey fence lack access to the necessary tools, they are trapped, unless there is a gap or open gate in the fenceline. The gate is owned by whoever builds it. Owning a gate does not block people from passing through an open gate. But only the gate's owner can toggle the gate open or closed. So if someone built a wall around town, but left multiple open gates, people could come and go as long as the gates were left open. You could technically do this on purpose to make a "walled town", but I don't see any point beyond griefing. It would give way too much power to the gate keeper(s) and no real benefit to anyone else.

It would have kept me from stealing that horse...

DestinyCall · 2019-04-18 23:43:08

futurebird wrote:

It would have kept me from stealing that horse...

Only if the gates were all closed ...

Redram · 2019-04-19 00:51:55

DestinyCall wrote:

One major issue I notice from looking at the transitions - property sticks should be destructable. Can we get a transition that converts property sticks to kindling using axe or hatchet?

Can you get infinite sticks from one branch? If so turning the sticks into kindling would be OP.

DestinyCall · 2019-04-19 00:56:15

Redram wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
One major issue I notice from looking at the transitions - property sticks should be destructable. Can we get a transition that converts property sticks to kindling using axe or hatchet?
Can you get infinite sticks from one branch? If so turning the sticks into kindling would be OP.

Infinite sticks that never decay is bad. What makes you think they are infinite? I assumed the branch was destroyed, based on the transitions.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-04-19 00:58:37)

futurebird · 2019-04-19 00:58:32

I think you get two from a branch when you use flint... but the 3x in this has me really confused...

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-19 00:59:52

Yes, redram, that's all correct.

And there is a problem with turning sticks into kindling (free kindling).

I have made it easier to "gather up" fences with some recent changes, so they end up in your hand instead of on the ground while gathering. This makes "pulling up" a proposed fence as fast as laying one down.

And yes, you're right about fencing in the whole village if no one notices for 23 minutes (or if they don't notice for 3 minutes, and have no hatchet).

I'll probably add some "easier" ways to knock the shaky ones down. I just want to avoid people knocking it down by accident if they want it and are actively trying to use it. Will probably add sharpstone, at least.

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