HOW I STOPPED TWISTED FROM STREAMING!

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-22 18:22:36

Yeah, I'm also nervous about tying the trigger for a ban or whatever to "being murdered". It generally sucks to be murdered, right? And non-griefers are murdered WAY more than griefers.

Also, Tarr, where is your avatar image from?

Dodge · 2019-04-22 18:28:43

How about burrying someone murdered removes the murder ban and give just regular ban, or putting some object on the murder grave, like a rose maybe ?

So the villagers can decide if that person was good or not

hmrka · 2019-04-22 18:29:22

Jason, I still think total lifetime curse score harms all long time players... If you're experimenting with things please consider adding some change to it too. It's unfair that I can't defend my town anymore because I'll get three curses and get sent into donkey town...

Tarr · 2019-04-22 18:33:42

jasonrohrer wrote:

Yeah, I'm also nervous about tying the trigger for a ban or whatever to "being murdered". It generally sucks to be murdered, right? And non-griefers are murdered WAY more than griefers.
Also, Tarr, where is your avatar image from?

That's a specific piece made by hmrka of my favorite Eve.

In relation of the being murdered part sure a griefer is likely to kill more people than they're specifically killed however they should also be more likely to be murdered repeatedly throughout their play session where a normal player is less likely to be killed multiple times.

DestinyCall · 2019-04-22 18:38:22

jasonrohrer wrote:

All that said, with property fences, maybe cursing and such will be unnecessary and get removed, eventually. That's a long-term thing, though.

Propert fences do not help with many kinds of griefing. They are not an adequate substitute for cursing.

Cursing allows the village community to punish bad behavior and it accumulates across multiple lives to punish serial griefers. Personally, I'd like more severe punishments for people who have been cursed a large amount relative to the number of lives that they have played. Rather than looking at the raw Lifetime curse score, look at the lifetime curse score compared with the number of hours played or lives lived. A few misplaced curses won't matter to a longtime player, but a pattern of antisocial behavior will accumulate quickly.

Dodge · 2019-04-22 18:38:34

Or maybe the other way around, murdering and getting murdered gives no special ban at all, but if you do something special with the murder grave of someone that person gets banned from the village for a very long time, 72hours ?, like some sort of ritual with the blood that would act has a curse

And to prevent murderer from doing that to their victim only someone that hasn't committed murder in that life is allowed to perform the ritual.

Some sort of crafting recipe ritual to ban a murderer/griefer instead of the boring "curse xyz"

DestinyCall · 2019-04-22 18:53:27

Dodge wrote:

Or maybe the other way around, murdering and getting murdered gives no special ban at all, but if you do something special with the murder grave of someone that person gets banned from the village for a very long time, 72hours ?, like some sort of ritual with the blood that would act has a curse
And to prevent murderer from doing that to their victim only someone that hasn't committed murder in that life is allowed to perform the ritual.
Some sort of crafting recipe ritual to ban a murderer/griefer instead of the boring "curse xyz"

Except that muderers could grief their victims with this kind of ritual too.

Dodge · 2019-04-22 18:56:36

DestinyCall wrote:

Dodge wrote:
Or maybe the other way around, murdering and getting murdered gives no special ban at all, but if you do something special with the murder grave of someone that person gets banned from the village for a very long time, 72hours ?, like some sort of ritual with the blood that would act has a curse
And to prevent murderer from doing that to their victim only someone that hasn't committed murder in that life is allowed to perform the ritual.
Some sort of crafting recipe ritual to ban a murderer/griefer instead of the boring "curse xyz"
Except that muderers could grief their victims with this kind of ritual too.

No only someone that hasnt murdered anyone in that life can do the ritual

pein · 2019-04-22 18:58:54

yeah, you shouldn't be able to curse other families, but then you would be more afraid from letting in others, would make sense for properties.
but this still a "don't do that " type thing. and you said it yourself, you don't want those.
we need something bonus to keep alive a family and spread it. Make outposts and make sure they alive and well.
So some kind of buff what you only get with related people.
Maybe population based tech? gather 20 people at same time from the family, so you make some sort of advanced building/statue, etc.
also not sure, but the name stays but the family changes, like i brought a Romanov girl into Fata town, someone eventually went back there and they became all Fata

or the Haak lineage, Embersons were going for at least 20 gen i think when we arrived, my seed was stronger, Greta and my granddaughter were awaesome and then we had multiple girls and just took over.

I do think some people are very bad spreading curses.
Yesterday i didn't understood this behavior.
They didn't get branches, clay or soil, i do all alone. Then i see the woman poking bears, i seen 2 bears already and lured them away, eve camp level, no way to make 3 arrows or would have been too long, especially they make loin cloths from the fur i got.

So we got this twin girls, lazy as hell, basically never left the camp for 20 tiles, i fed them for a life, then when i ask them "no we need females"
then they got like 5 girls, and they die one ofter another cause both of them stays near fire, and one of them poke bears.
Then i shot her for it, and her twin plays the innocent but then curses me.
Then the kid curses me "cause accident"

Cause i killed someone, sure but the bear she released killed multiple.
The only reason they curse me cause im a male and their mother fed them for 3 minutes. i Fed 5-6 people for 50.
Made them tools, pen, and run the camp alone. Only one girl was understanding that im right. The rest just stood around eating all the food and cursing.

I seen people who curse, but they didn't know how to take out water from a deep well and put it on bushes.
Like we seriously need to limit how people can curse. I was cursing for making compost. Because he follow me all life, says im hiding food. First of all berry is not food and we had zero soil. Then that im "locking up carrots" well if they cant let it seed then i have to.
Then im followed all my life and other guy cursing me for being rude about it.

The other problem is you cant come back, they curse even more. I think is totally fair if the curse is not right that they die for it. Same as real life: false testimony : you go to jail.

Now we could have some non violent showdown, the loser cant wear clothes and weapons for 5 minutes and drops the item he/she holding.
Some cases just need to warn people that they messing with someone more experienced.
Maybe some sort of boxing/hit with a special shaft 3 times.

Right now, griefers and killers lose a duel and they run back to city and tell that you are the griefer/killer.
My sis beg for 13 minutes for a backpack, told her where rabbits are, she still begging. Never going to happen when we got 1 single pack and the other 2 made by me and given to mom.
Then she starts yelling at me, then tried to shoot me, i dodged it twice and shot her. Then killings start cause other guy wants a knife with no storage, kills al lsheep then a girl. Then i need to take him down before kills other girl.
Then other guy want to kill me, and i explain trough the wall that eh kil the oldest girl kid.

In 2 games had to get rid of 7 people, who either ruining stuff, killing girls or such.
risking my life, risking to be killed after, and even cursed.

it's just feels so bad when you are the only working person and they believe a 8 year old griefer with bow over you, cause "he is just a kid"

First of all there needs to be some sort of score even if it's hidden. If you stand around all your life, and doesn't bother you to make food, or anything, you shouldn't be able to curse. Maybe you see it but no one else. Any type of action, not too repetitive like dropping a firewood left and right.
Maybe to walk 500 tiles, and perform 50 recipes.
That's nto hard to do, if you cant, probably you cant judge who is a griefer.
The other thing: there is no pressure of making food if others doing it.
I get that i smith, and others make pie, that's a fair deal. Even that females raise kids, teach them (which i rarely see).
But the people who stand aroudn talking, consuming, acting as a newbee to have an excuse to not work, are the first one to curse others.

Sure, a griefer could also do this taks and then curse, but at least we would filter out the people who grab a weapon at age 8 and kill the first person they see.

The other problem: curses cost nothing and no one is checking if the reason is true, the proofs.
I suggest, that each time you curse others, you curse yourself for half the value.
So basically you curse for 2 points, the numbers are just double for the limits.
You get 1 point.
I could imagine even more frequent cursing, each 1 hour or each life.

Now if someone would say curse this person cause the heck of it, you would consider that you get into trouble, so does it worth even cursing, if you arent sure why you do it.
Sre you could curse soemone is mean, or cause ruined something, or stole your berry.
But then the cost would be that you get cursed yourself as well for 1 point and if you do it very often, cursing and convincing to curse, you get to doneky town yourself for a bit.
Cause people don't want to solve problems, they just curse first, talk after.

Every drama needs 2 persons, and people call anyone griefer who doesn't do what they say. Like twisted killed a kid for feeding him a berry. Therest was speculation what would have done or what not. He also wanted to kill me once, cause his viewers told him to. Well guess how that ended. He still butthurt about it.

I also got cursed a lot of times cause my name was Joy and Joy II killed people.
Old lady told to curse joy II
they all curse joy
i was there and told them to stop, even got 3 more after that
4 hours in DT for having the same name.

Plz fix:
-Same name is not allowed ( either a message that someone already named like that, or just chose another variant)
-Same eve name not allowed (the top one would fix it cause you cant be Eve Jo 12 times only Eve Jo II)
-Curses cost something so people take it seriously (if you don't want mods fast forward lifes to check real griefers, and no way to appeal against bans, then at least make it so people at least consider if they curse for small things if they got a chance to go to DT themselves, a lineage killer? sure, a town destroyer ? yeah. a kill you didn't see? no go.)
-Overall hours or action based limit in lives. People below 100 hours cant even play properly, don't know what is the reason why others do things, composting or digging out bushes seems counter intuitive, they didn't even play as eve and succed they don't know what it takes to keep people alive
-No cursing other people far away, maybe only you who was there
-Allow cursing as a command, rather than age based, or if you die you can curse whoever you want

The other problem that we still don't really know who and where is in the family.
We need some sort of GUI to show the family persons, like a new layer.
90% of people suicide cause no girls
they even suicide if they don't see no girls
there should be some sort of tracking for males to find a girl if no one on screen
awbz and whatever tries to work on a system to show this, but the data from server is bugged, shows too many old people and if they moved out they arent shown or shown as girl kids (found 2 ladies, one went old and her daughter was there, still showing 3 girl kids for me, possibly cause they moved out when young)

right now people use curses for rp or to spend it and generate new one
if you put the commo nfold as judge, jury and executioner then this happens

and i totally ahte those people who follow you all your life, even if they did something against you, convicne others to curse
you got no options, if you kill them you justify them
if they kill you she gets what she wanted
if you let them live, they don't care about working, they just curse you even more

towns rely on veterans to feed the newbees, some people act as newbees so they can leach on others
properties wont really change this, you rely on newbees and dumb selfish players to take your family forward
but whats the limit to this?

i havent killed a single soul with no reason in weeks, yet i get cursed time to time
and it's a huge difference from back then, when i had 30%+ kills in my lifes.
this just makes people don't care about the family, griefers? let them be
killers? kil them if it's safe, or let them go around or give others weapons, and don't talk to anyone, don't interfere
still people find dumb excuses to follow you and provoke you "oh you give me to the nursery" "oh you didn't let me kill you" "oh you took the backpack from the floor faster than me" "oh i found a fleece and knife, and furs on ground, it's mine, you thief"

GreatShawn · 2019-04-22 19:01:19

I love how Toxic haven't came back to this topic. He knew he will be kicked in the ass if he came back here.

DestinyCall · 2019-04-22 19:05:11

Dodge wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
Dodge wrote:
Or maybe the other way around, murdering and getting murdered gives no special ban at all, but if you do something special with the murder grave of someone that person gets banned from the village for a very long time, 72hours ?, like some sort of ritual with the blood that would act has a curse
And to prevent murderer from doing that to their victim only someone that hasn't committed murder in that life is allowed to perform the ritual.
Some sort of crafting recipe ritual to ban a murderer/griefer instead of the boring "curse xyz"
Except that muderers could grief their victims with this kind of ritual too.
No only someone that hasnt murdered anyone in that life can do the ritual

I might be okay with something like this, but not as a replacement for traditional cursing. It is too situational, since it requires the griefer to be killed and for someone else to do the deed. Griefers could escape punishment by getting good at dodging or running away. Or if you are griefing in a town with few weapons. I like how the curse system lets other people curse someone once word spreads that they are griefing. It is a group effort to send someone to Donkey Town.

Dodge · 2019-04-22 19:18:04

DestinyCall wrote:

Dodge wrote:
DestinyCall wrote:
Except that muderers could grief their victims with this kind of ritual too.
No only someone that hasnt murdered anyone in that life can do the ritual
I might be okay with something like this, but not as a replacement for traditional cursing. It is too situational, since it requires the griefer to be killed and for someone else to do the deed. Griefers could escape punishment by getting good at dodging or running away. Or if you are griefing in a town with few weapons. I like how the curse system lets other people curse someone once word spreads that they are griefing. It is a group effort to send someone to Donkey Town.

If the medical system gets better then we could have official medics, and dying from murder would only happen in small villages or far from the village

Solbusaur · 2019-04-22 19:24:41

Kilian wrote:

Toxic and his mates have a rather proficient method: Hiding behind a tree and shooting from there. They once lured me to a basket full of pies and shot me there. However, I couldnt see who it was. How to solve this I do not know

Hovering your cursor over trees can still reveal names if they're there. It's just they aren't highlighted as items. Here though, you have a short time to actually find which tree they're behind, which can be the issue

st2019 · 2019-04-22 20:01:55

Here is my idea, I call it "Lists of difference"

Killers kill. Griefers grief. You can only log Killers. Logging Griefer behaviour is impossible (Kidnapping, opening the sheep pen, eating all berrys, hiding tools, wasting ressources).

If someone gets often cursed AND is a Killer quite often, then there is a huge indicator for that person beeing also a griefer.

Just log two seperate things:
1. How often got someone cursed (Unique curses, by Player-IDs). => If Toxic curses Twisted a hunded times, it counts just as a single curse. If Toxic gets cursed by 50 unique players it counts as 50 curses. This shows you who is very hard cursed by the community.

2. How often did a Player-ID kill someone. => Like Toxic killed 40 people in a week.

Create two lists and sort them by the amount of "unique curses" and "kills in a specific time". Check them manually! If a player is on top of both lists and the values are far away from average, punish the player.

You could add a devils tail, as long as you want.

Last edited by st2019 (2019-04-22 20:12:03)

Tarr · 2019-04-22 20:10:50

st2019 wrote:

Here is my idea, I call it "Lists of difference"
Killers kill. Griefers grief. You can only log Killers. Logging Griefer behaviour is impossible (Kidnapping, opening the sheep pen, eating all berrys, hiding tools, wasting ressources).
If someone gets often cursed AND is a Killer quite often, then there is a huge indicator for that person beeing also a griefer.
Just log two seperate things:
1. How often got someone cursed (Unique curses, by Player-IDs). => If Toxic curses Twisted a hunded times, it counts just as a single curse. This shows you who is very hard cursed by the community.
2. How often did a Player-ID kill someone. => Like Toxic killed 40 people in a week.
Create two lists and sort them by the amount of "unique curses" and "kills in a specific time". Check them manually! If a player is on top of both lists and the values are far away from average, punish the player.
You could add a devils tail, as long as you want.
https://i.ibb.co/gvP2fSc/devils-tail.jpg

You don't give griefers cosmetic upgrades for being asshole. This leads to a game of people having to police people who want to be special by having the certain different visual. Back when curses only made characters have an inverse chat bubble people would grief to specifically get it. Veternal players would have to basically play police and have all the babies talk or you just had to kill them.

There was "drama" revolved around whether you should let these kids live when in reality all cursed babies should be stabbed and dumped. It was more of a hassle than it was ever worth and donkey towns exile mechanic worked to remove these idiots for extended times (it used to be every curse over 8 was an extra hour in DT. With one person having a confirmed 14 hours of playing solo to return to the normal playerbase which was super overkill.)

Devil tails, horns, or special speech bubbles are 100% not the way you handle griefers.

DestinyCall · 2019-04-22 20:16:37

Tarr wrote:

Devil tails, horns, or special speech bubbles are 100% not the way you handle griefers.

Exactly.

As the original post already shows, griefers love getting attention for their evil deeds. They WANT to be noticed. It lets them feel special and different and less bored with life.

The strength of the current curse system is it punishes griefers in a very effective way - by taking away their toys. They can't break other people's stuff when they are all alone. I'd say if someone gets identified as a serial griefer, they should just get banned from the public servers. They could still play on private servers, but those tend to have lower population and it is harder to hide in the crowd, so constant griefing behavior will get you kicked out there too. Based on the user statistics I've seen, only a very small number of players have managed to accumulate extremely high lifetime curse scores and very high lifetime murder scores. It would not be difficult to spot the bad apples.

Pretty much every multiplayer game or on-line forum expects you to follow basic rules of conduct in order to continue to be part of the group. Even the official Discord will ban repeat offenders. I don't see any reason why toxic players should be left in the community indefinitely. Especially when they pull crap like intentionally targeting streamers.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-04-22 20:22:59)

st2019 · 2019-04-22 20:25:31

I meant it not as a replacement for donkey town. It's an addition, to warn players from the really really bad guys.

Imagine a born devil baby. That's far away from reward.

Tarr · 2019-04-22 20:36:30

My biggest question is why is the one sort of griefing we've asked specifically be looked at being ignored? Twin+ griefing as been a thing since twinning was introduced. The only nerf twinning has seen specifically is the inability to visit towns your twin specifically cannot visit either.

I think you were right when you first thought about broken heart syndrome and group play really needs looked at now that you've basically gutted the curse system. I really dislike the idea I need to ask children to post in discord to keep them when griefing picks up and I'm sure people would rather not have to enforce these sort things.

pein · 2019-04-22 20:37:55

i mean i kill a lot but you get 20 kills a week in few hours just dispatching town destroyers, female killers, and yes this is a proven stat of mine and each time i killed only after agreeing with others that i should do it or they agreed and fed me after i killed them

and the fact that someone can kill you: maybe he is a better player
now you can call them griefers, maybe they do it for revenge or legit , you cant know for sure. they can consider you as a griefer for eating the last carrot for compost, or picking seed row.
we had 2 updates on murder slowdown, first was decent, gave you a brief chance to escape, second was brutal, if someone sees you, has a weapon, 1 minute is plenty of time to kill him in return, lot of people starve after killing someone
now with temp changes the chances are slightly that they survive without hot clothes, fire and without eating for 1 minute

stab the tile they standing on or moving to
if you are unable, it's not the game fault
there is a high difference of skill and this is stupid thinking
he knows the game mechanics, you don't, you want to enforce a better player your vision, sure he can be a griefer too
why would someone let you kill him especially if innocent, or even if guilty?
imagine yourself in their situation
sure, he kills and knows how to kill
but you need to know how to defend: have pads, have people you trust, don't stand near people with weapons, don't give reason to be killed, wait explanation, have a weapon at you just in case, make storage early each life
you can still go around 2 hours convincing others to curse, and leaching resources. when the other player is dead/working has no chance to stop you

all i see you people cant imagine yourself in their situation so your suggestions are completely unbalanced

imprisoning? people frame a kid then imprison him for role play
the tools for anti griefing can be used for griefing and will be used

i agree with killian but a bit more score: killing command would be fair but much higher number, like 10
sometimes they grab a horse and you cant stab them
it's better to die than argue that you killed a griefer and you arent the griefer
it would be fine with a death and area ban every time but wont fully solve the issue

i think banishment would be better or people would kill streamers or people who say their name on discord or just anyone with clothes

set an altar, say /banish XY
if the player enters the area, his food bar drains faster or loses them permanently (fast aging), and after 2 minutes he dies, lets say 50x50 area
if he can stay out for rest of his life it's fine, if he comes inside to eat he doesn't win much by it
he can disarm the altar but that means he needs to go close to it and people could guard it
so instead of playing hide and seek, he would need to go in offense or live outside in banishment
can be several altars and several people so they could still walk away with others

Last edited by pein (2019-04-22 20:43:40)

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-04-22 20:40:13

jasonrohrer wrote:

The problem is, if you are murdered, you may want to remember the person and curse them in your next life. But this is probably NOT a very common issue, so I should probably change it.

Please don't make this change!!!!!

This is a very common problem, because half the time when I want to curse a griefer I am a kid!

I've killed someone for griefing, and still had to wait ten minutes to be able to curse them, because i couldn't say their whole name!!! This was YESTERDAY!

Seriously, if you are going to only give us 60 seconds to curse a griefer, then you MUST add a curse command so that kids can curse people with names longer than their regular character limit.

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-22 20:44:44

Who has been affected unfairly by a lifetime curse score building up from a "curse here a curse there" over time?

Remember, it only sends you to D-town if you get up above the threshold with your CURRENT curse score.

Even if you have a lifetime score of 55, which affects only 45 people out of the 39,000 people currently registered with the curse server, you have to accumulate 6 curses in a row to be sent to D-town.

That's not going to happen unless you make a bunch of people mad at you. It's not going to come from "a curse here, a curse there," especially since you lose one curse each hour.

pein · 2019-04-22 20:48:24

problem that kids don't see the whole situation
they think their mom is nice and others are just bad

their mom gives them clothes, doesn't matter if she made it or not
the other guy is angry they think is no reason cause their mom is nice

i think is fine some age limit or skill limit
like if you curse, you should be able to write at least
like the griefers who curse and cant even spell your name then says a lot about them
curse command would be fine but after you reach age 14 or so, cause you could curse others for not keeping you as baby or you see the aftermath of killing a griefer and you would curse with no question, if you are a kid, you calm down in 5 min and realize the person is working hard for the city

Jk Howling · 2019-04-22 20:49:20

Jason, I highly advise fixing the issue with kids not being able to curse if you're young to implement time constraints on after death cursing. Make it a command so that kids can curse the griefer too, rather than being unable to do anything whatsoever about it.

Also please, PLEASE fix twins. I'm tired of having to abandon twins because, if they decide to grief, I can't do shit about it. Implement broken heart syndrome and make curses to twins/etc apply to all parties involved. We need this in the game. Innocents are constantly having to deal with being abandoned due to the threat of griefing and our lack of ability to handle them of they do.

BladeWoods · 2019-04-22 21:02:09

Can a mod ban toxic from the forums already. His behaviour here is not acceptable.

Last edited by BladeWoods (2019-04-22 21:02:19)

pein · 2019-04-22 21:04:16

jasonrohrer wrote:

Who has been affected unfairly by a lifetime curse score building up from a "curse here a curse there" over time?
Remember, it only sends you to D-town if you get up above the threshold with your CURRENT curse score.
Even if you have a lifetime score of 55, which affects only 45 people out of the 39,000 people currently registered with the curse server, you have to accumulate 6 curses in a row to be sent to D-town.
That's not going to happen unless you make a bunch of people mad at you. It's not going to come from "a curse here, a curse there," especially since you lose one curse each hour.

got 4 hours in dt cause people don't know the difference between Joy and Joy II
once a player said 11 times to others to curse me, just from stdout i seen this, under a life of 20 min, bartering and lying about me
i didn't even do anything, i asked her something to work, got mad, started insulting, i talked back, then she grabbed a knife, stab me and 2 hours straight convinced people, even in other city

i seen a woman the other life, she picked some milkweed what the other player planted, he got mad a bit and told her to plant her own
in return this woman went around convincing people to curse Kimi. was my son, but it didn't really matter, i check upon him, he had a self made apron, self made clothes, doing compost and he needed ropes for something, i even tlaked with him and seemed decent player.
this girl convinced the next kid she had to "curse kimi when older" and to "murder him"
the kid agreed not knowing the context of it
she even came to me to curse Kimi, and to others

people hear Curse Xy
and they don't care for reason, they just echo trough the town
once i told to watch out for this guy named Elena, he tried to shoot me with a bow but i dodge and take his arrow, he ran away and i didn't care much, just told to watch out for him
someone cursed me bit after
she said 'they said there is a griefer and you look suspicious"
sure is one curse only but still unfair

you can add an easy test: a bot named Jojo
he born to each family, auto named Jojo Pie or Jojo Cake or whatever the family name is. runs away until dies.
Now a few people will convince citizens to curse Jojo, see how much curses he gets. I bet he will have the highest curse score in each family. Even if people get email update about it.

Last edited by pein (2019-04-22 21:05:08)

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#47 2019-04-22 20:48:24

Re: HOW I STOPPED TWISTED FROM STREAMING!

#48 2019-04-22 20:49:20

Re: HOW I STOPPED TWISTED FROM STREAMING!

#49 2019-04-22 21:02:09

Re: HOW I STOPPED TWISTED FROM STREAMING!

#50 2019-04-22 21:04:16

Re: HOW I STOPPED TWISTED FROM STREAMING!

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