Quick VOG survey on Bigserver2

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-23 20:57:31

So I went around as VOG and got an overview of the current living families on bigserver2.

I found 10 active families there, not counting Eve camps.

For each family, I'm taking a look at their most advanced water-harvesting resource.

PUDDY (Gen 9)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4215371
Deep well

GARDEN (Gen 11)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4215420
Deep Well

DUB (Gen 16)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4214450
Deep well

PUMA (Gen 6)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4216348
Deep Well

LESER (Gen 5)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4216909
Pond

JO (Gen 14)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4214299
Deep well

BERRY (Gen 5)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4215274
Deep well

DUPONT (Gen 17)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4213812
Charcoal Newcomen Pump

JAIN (gen 40)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4210937
Charcoal Newcomen Pump

JOLLY (gen 5)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4216606
Shallow well

Tarr · 2019-04-23 21:00:14

Gen 40 on charcoal doesn't surprise me in the least as you never actually need to leave charcoal pumps unless you want to do a quality of life upgrade to the town at the cost of a bunch of iron and time.

MultiLife · 2019-04-23 21:11:16

That's cool. I wish we had these reports more often, and more little details of how they're doing.

Yeah I still haven't tackled diesel and diesel wells BECAUSE TOWNS KEEP DYING AND I HAVE NO TIME TO TRY OUT NEW STUFF.

Solbusaur · 2019-04-23 21:17:08

Lack of kerosene pumps most likely due to tarry spots being too far for players to bother

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-23 22:22:08

Getting all the way to 16 gens with the deep well seems a little problematic to me, and some of these deep wells weren't even close to empty. I don't think I ever saw a town with more than two deep wells. Some of these places had other Newcomen machinery around, just not pumps.

jasonrohrer · 2019-04-23 22:24:20

Also, this survey process was very time consuming. I'll have to think of a way to automate it.

Would be cool if there was an automated "snapshot" type thing, that looked at a radius around each living player and took a tally of the total number of each object type around them.

Spoonwood · 2019-04-23 22:30:12

I learned after just a few sessions not this past Saturday, but the Saturday before that finding a tarry spot can take a bunch of time even with a zoom mod. It's not that it's not close. The question lies in which direction it lies. May have been easier back when people lived in deserts. The difficulty of finding them I think come as why you sometimes see roads to them.

Solbusaur · 2019-04-23 22:33:47

Now that I think about it, someone will place plots around the kerosene pumps. That makes it even more of a disadvantage if the drill is far away from town, and players can easily exploit its neglect to trap it for generations.

Then again, this neglect becomes an advantage, should this happen. It means it most likely wont be kept upright by some players.
Something to think about

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-04-23 22:36:50

jasonrohrer wrote:

Getting all the way to 16 gens with the deep well seems a little problematic to me, and some of these deep wells weren't even close to empty. I don't think I ever saw a town with more than two deep wells. Some of these places had other Newcomen machinery around, just not pumps.

I can hammer out a newcomen pump in a life no problem, but there are a couple reasons not to.

The town might not even last long enough to drain all the water in the first place. Maybe nobody got the iron or spent it all on those other pieces of machinery.

The town might not even use it after you make it and pass it on. About 50% of players right now wouldn't be ae to fire up a charcoal (let alone diesel) pump and fill a cistern, so it's nice to have wells of all tech branches for people that just know deep wells or basic wells.

Amon · 2019-04-23 22:41:30

In a big town you would not even be able to find the pump parts!

YannaChan · 2019-04-23 22:42:56

I think KuroMegumi (a livestreamer) encountered you in the Jo family, a pine tree with cardinals was talking to her and gave her pies and a crown.

olooopo · 2019-04-23 23:42:31

jasonrohrer wrote:

Getting all the way to 16 gens with the deep well seems a little problematic to me, and some of these deep wells weren't even close to empty. I don't think I ever saw a town with more than two deep wells. Some of these places had other Newcomen machinery around, just not pumps.

That is because pumps are annoying and I usually rather upgrade a well to a deep well for just one rope cost than a deep well to a persistent pump.

I'd only make a pump if all wells have dried out in order to secure an infinite water source. So yeah, you could nerf deep wells to shift the trade-off between a new deep well and a pump such that a pump would appear more frequently. But please consider this: While filling a cistern with a pump can be done by a single person in under ten minutes, making charcoal is just repetitive, boring and cumbersome even if you have multiple kilns. A higher tech for mass-producing charcoal with firewood would be great and, more importantly, let charcoal be stackable on a pile. This would make many of my lives so much easier and that not only for pumps but also for making steel, engines...

futurebird · 2019-04-23 23:53:50

olooopo wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
Getting all the way to 16 gens with the deep well seems a little problematic to me, and some of these deep wells weren't even close to empty. I don't think I ever saw a town with more than two deep wells. Some of these places had other Newcomen machinery around, just not pumps.
That is because pumps are annoying and I usually rather upgrade a well to a deep well for just one rope cost than a deep well to a persistent pump.
I'd only make a pump if all wells have dried out in order to secure an infinite water source. So yeah, you could nerf deep wells to shift the trade-off between a new deep well and a pump such that a pump would appear more frequently. But please consider this: While filling a cistern with a pump can be done by a single person in under ten minutes, making charcoal is just repetitive, boring and cumbersome even if you have multiple kilns. A higher tech for mass-producing charcoal with firewood would be great and, more importantly, let charcoal be stackable on a pile. This would make many of my lives so much easier and that not only for pumps but also for making steel, engines...

I ... agree? Wow I normally hate nerfs but I do think some more pressure to get to better water tech would help. People still have no idea what I'm talking about when I say "time to make pump" and I often do it all on my own.

Let the water run out faster with the deep well. Also maybe buff the regular well a little and DECREASE the number of ponds. Two ponds should be enough if you upgrade and work, but people look for spots with 3-5 ponds because the ponds and shallow wells run out. I was in a town with 8 shallow wells once.

I think ponds spawn in clusters too often. Isolate them more. Maybe make them come in pairs and rare groups of 3.

hmmm

futurebird · 2019-04-23 23:55:54

Water sources should be the anchors of towns now I think people treat them more like banana trees a resources to be drained then you move the farm over 20 tiles and drain the next pond.

Bob 101 · 2019-04-24 00:44:41

Because charcoal is infinite and kerosene and beyond isn't worth making sadly.

Make iron more abundant and water more scarce. Their should be a rush to get to the diesel pump to relieve us from the droughts.

Last edited by Bob 101 (2019-04-24 00:49:23)

BladeWoods · 2019-04-24 01:56:49

Nerf to water incoming? I wouldn't mind. But maybe buff egg respawn rate if you dramatically cut number of ponds?

Sometimes you get a town with just two or three ponds and there is pressure to upgrade past deep, but often there's 20 nearby ponds and no pressure.

There isn't any strict reason to upgrade beyond charcoal pump, charcoal pump is an infinite water source at the cost of kindling. Kerosene pump is just a little more efficient. I'm not sure what the math is for kerosene efficiency vs charcoal. Anyone know?

Spoonwood · 2019-04-24 02:44:52

olooopo wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
Getting all the way to 16 gens with the deep well seems a little problematic to me, and some of these deep wells weren't even close to empty. I don't think I ever saw a town with more than two deep wells. Some of these places had other Newcomen machinery around, just not pumps.
That is because pumps are annoying and I usually rather upgrade a well to a deep well for just one rope cost than a deep well to a persistent pump.
I'd only make a pump if all wells have dried out in order to secure an infinite water source. So yeah, you could nerf deep wells to shift the trade-off between a new deep well and a pump such that a pump would appear more frequently. But please consider this: While filling a cistern with a pump can be done by a single person in under ten minutes, making charcoal is just repetitive, boring and cumbersome even if you have multiple kilns. A higher tech for mass-producing charcoal with firewood would be great and, more importantly, let charcoal be stackable on a pile. This would make many of my lives so much easier and that not only for pumps but also for making steel, engines...

The charcoal pump can get upgraded to a kerosone pump that runs on a single kerosone charge instead of charcoal (so it's less kindling once you have oil up), and produces 5 buckets of water instead of 3. Each of those pumps needs a bucket of water to run. A diesel water pump runs purely on a kerosone charge, produces 7 buckets of water per charge, and does not require a bucket of water to run. So basically, though the details differ from your suggestion, upgrades already exist.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-04-24 02:45:23)

Spoonwood · 2019-04-24 03:05:54

BladeWoods wrote:

Nerf to water incoming? I wouldn't mind. But maybe buff egg respawn rate if you dramatically cut number of ponds?
Sometimes you get a town with just two or three ponds and there is pressure to upgrade past deep, but often there's 20 nearby ponds and no pressure.
There isn't any strict reason to upgrade beyond charcoal pump, charcoal pump is an infinite water source at the cost of kindling. Kerosene pump is just a little more efficient. I'm not sure what the math is for kerosene efficiency vs charcoal. Anyone know?

It's not quite so simply since you need to burn charcoal and guzzle water to run the hammer to make the pulley drive mechanism for the bore, and the roller. You also need to cook rubber... a timing belt and for the oil rig. You need water and charcoal to run both roller and the bore at least once. Then you need to run the rig until it's gushing. Each time you run it, you need to use a bucket of water and a basket of charcoal. Then you need to run it once it's gushing to make crude oil you need another bucket of water and basket of charcoal. The fractional distiller ONLY requires charcoal (and fire from a firebrand) to run. How many steel pipe extensions you need to get the rig gushing also varies based on probability. The expected value is 5 steel pipe extensions.

So, assuming you nail everything down in one run (it's not so easy to make everything you need in one run in my experience for oil), it's one bucket and kindling for the hammer, one for the roller, one for the bore, 5 for the gushing rig, for 8 buckets of water and kindling to get oil up.

Once you have the rig up the calculations come as simple. You need one basket of charcoal to run the rig, and one basket of charcoal to refine the crude oil in the fractional distiller. So, it's two kindling, and one bucket of water for 6 kerosene charges. You need a bucket of water to run the kerosene newcomen pump, so you net 4 buckets of water each time you run it, since it produces 5 buckets of water. Thus, (- (x 6 4 ) 1) = 23, you net 23 buckets of water for 6 charges which costs 2 kindling. 2 kindling nets you 4 buckets of water for the charcoal pump. Thus, I guess it's fair to say that oil pays off once your people have used all of the charges on one tank, as you have over 10 buckets of water and kindling as 'breathing room'... ignoring the iron cost which isn't small. It's 20 some iron to get the rig up starting from the newcomen engine. If it's just the rig and the distiller, it's still over a dozen iron on average.

The diesel water pump doesn't require a bucket of water to run. 2 kindling gives you a full tank of kerosone. And each charge gives you 7 buckets of water. So, the diesel water pump gives you (- (x 6 7) 1) = 41 buckets of water for 2 kindling. Starting from the engine, when I did the calculations before, it was over 40 iron to get a diesel water pump up. Having one strikes me as really neat for the town. It definitely improves the quality of a town. If towns come as what matters, you would want someone to make someone at some point in time. Whether it helps lineages though comes as another story, since families don't seem to run out of water on a charcoal pump. It isn't like easier water increases fertility, and who knows if having one encourages players to stay more often or not.

futurebird · 2019-04-24 03:17:11

but making oil is fun.

pein · 2019-04-24 08:06:27

jasonrohrer wrote:

So I went around as VOG and got an overview of the current living families on bigserver2.
I found 10 active families there, not counting Eve camps.
For each family, I'm taking a look at their most advanced water-harvesting resource.

PUDDY (Gen 9)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4215371
Deep well
GARDEN (Gen 11)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4215420
Deep Well

DUB (Gen 16)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4214450
Deep well

PUMA (Gen 6)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4216348
Deep Well

LESER (Gen 5)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4216909
Pond

JO (Gen 14)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4214299
Deep well

BERRY (Gen 5)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4215274
Deep well

DUPONT (Gen 17)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4213812
Charcoal Newcomen Pump

JAIN (gen 40)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4210937
Charcoal Newcomen Pump

JOLLY (gen 5)
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4216606
Shallow well

was in some of this

puddy: nicely organized city, nobody was too interested in cars or planes or even oil, we fired the newcommen like once
leser: we died out because no woman, we had some newbie girl and she had no kids or they suicided, all other females starved, died or quit, actually we had a great teamwork and good players, some biome generation error sent 2 horses and a bison to green biome closeby so we catched them, but we gave up when no girls were to be found, actually 2 lassos for horses, one cart, bow and cart, we were quite effective with resources
dupont: they died out as well, some bear kills and the lack of female kids who wanted to stay, it was quite messy, i came on visit with a brother, from leser town
jain: was a mixed family with a lot of kills and private properties which wasted a lot of iron and made a big mess
jo:i taught a newbie girl to do board roads to occupy her until i fix some issues, i upgraded the first wel land made a bucket, we would of survived wit ha bit of relocation, it's just the convenience

overall the population was low, the baby booms are over the top, people quit cause don't have clothes or jobs to do, then when you finally manage to fix the town no babies are born, i think gen 3-4 or same level of tech (new players somehow survive on bananas and berry until the first smith comes) get way too many babies and then high tech cities who care about things are struggling

the newcommen hammers are the result of the interest on new clothes, jain and puddy had them so that's why the charcoal pumps as they had loom as well, and kinda the bucket got used one more time for a new rubber

overall rubber making is not something people really do, due to people need to get sulfur which occupies bowls, and nothing that really interest average players, comes from it
i like upgraded carts and i make extra rubber for cores and cars, tires but it's not that fun to do, maybe if a rubebr tree and a desert is close people do it eventually

in the last few days i made a few oil pumpjacks, my best was 1-2 tries but the life when i started late and wasted 4-5 pipes was awful and very bad experience to die before it
people do engines before rubber and cars before engine wells

i did a few kerosene burners, like in Pie IV and Haak, but they just a bit more convenient than doing charcoal for a whole life
and it's enough to fill cisterns, engine wells

maybe make more usage for rubber
buff mango a bit, like faster reload time (that uses a lot of water)
or we need heated pools, saunas to use more water
people still do fences and clothes only they don't bother with planes and stuff
last few days i think Alex family was close to a plane (Ari-Ori waas there so i give her a few tips on how to find my clothes and what are the next steps)
And Cucci gen 65 made one Airplane if it's true, not sure if they ever landed in dutch airport.

olooopo · 2019-04-24 09:05:23

Spoonwood wrote:

The charcoal pump can get upgraded to a kerosone pump that runs on a single kerosone charge instead of charcoal (so it's less kindling once you have oil up), and produces 5 buckets of water instead of 3. Each of those pumps needs a bucket of water to run. A diesel water pump runs purely on a kerosone charge, produces 7 buckets of water per charge, and does not require a bucket of water to run. So basically, though the details differ from your suggestion, upgrades already exist.

I know that. Oil is not always accessible and
a multigeneration project if the tarry spot is too far away. Someone should always start to build a road or mark the way with fences(?) to the closest tarry spot. If not the oil rig might be lost and never be used after you have built it. Also, I have seen cities where someone upgraded all charcoal pumps to kerosene ones without access to oil. The city did not have any water left and you had to run several miles to get a bucket of water from a pond.

Drilling for oil is pure luck, I once needed seven tries to get it. I had to use the roller and bore three times for that. So in this case, just drilling for oil required nine buckets of water and twelve baskets of charcoal. I couldn't care less about the kindling since it is not hard to get it in two trips with a pack and a basket. Making this amount of charcoal on the other hand annoys me because it is just unecessary cumbersome. So, my point is that making and running Newcomen stuff could be make more fun by making charcoal more handleable in larger quantities. This helps with everything and I don't see any balancing issue in making multiple baskets from charcoal from firewood. It's not like kindling is finite or scarce if you are willing to walk some tiles. I'm even ok with a tech which turns several bunches of kindling at a time to charcoal and stores it for future usage.

Btw. drilling for oil is not always that unlucky, on several occasions I got it in the first try and the above example was just the worst case out of the worst. In addition, mass-producing steel would be great in the same sense.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-04-23 20:57:31

Quick VOG survey on Bigserver2

#2 2019-04-23 21:00:14

Re: Quick VOG survey on Bigserver2

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Re: Quick VOG survey on Bigserver2

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