Pumps - Nerfing water/oil, buffing iron with a cost

Booklat1 · 2019-05-01 15:37:37

When pumps were added we though of them as an extremely needed tech. Some people would become coalmakers and we all rushed oil in the following week. However, despite cars and planes, we rarely get oil nowadays, even if oil newcomen is 10X as cheap to use as coal (and even coal isnt urgent).

This has come to Jason's attention and is something he might be working on. What I suggest is a PUMP UPDATE, nerfing water/oil and buffing iron, all through pumps.

First, water: We now have random item tables which allow things to transition into various different things. This means firing water pumps could very rarely dry (as Jason wanted) and then demand additional upgrades, but still operate normally the majority of times. This exact system could be used for oil, which would need more drilling after drying. Additionaly we could add a "perma dry" system for oil wells, also using chance.

To pay for all these pumps, buff cars and make mines important long term I suggest iron newcomen pumps to upgrade mines. These exist irl and pump powder iron. Here they would be an upgrade to collapsed mines and work with coal. Each cycle would then also have a chance to fail/perma fail before it ran out of iron. The used pump could then be scavenged. There's also this thread I made in reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/OneLifeSuggest … e_upgrade/

As a base I think perma fails should be 1% chance and normal fails 5%. This gives an upkeep cost to unupgraded water pumps while giving that dry chance for them all and allowing water upgrades to avoid it. Breaking pumps would also make loud noises, so people learn about them.

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-05-01 15:56:06)

futurebird · 2019-05-01 15:39:23

What keeps people from just building another pump when one breaks?

Booklat1 · 2019-05-01 15:44:24

futurebird wrote:

What keeps people from just building another pump when one breaks?

it's more expensive, specially long term. Moving once into oil or drying all pumps close to farms?

though ideally ponds should also be rarer

base oil pump is actually 10x better than coal already

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-05-01 15:47:17)

futurebird · 2019-05-01 15:47:41

I'm just saying few people will make a diesel engine if they can just make a deep well.

Booklat1 · 2019-05-01 15:54:23

futurebird wrote:

I'm just saying few people will make a diesel engine if they can just make a deep well.

I mean, that's the problem we have with wells, but they are undoubtedly getting nerfed again so I am adressing what's above, because coal pumps are also too good

We do need less ponds so wells and pumps can be pressured, but water will never be an issue if coal is its main bottleneck long term

futurebird · 2019-05-01 16:03:08

One coal pump is too labor intensive to serve a mid-sized town. As soon as more people spend time on coal duty they will see that and want the upgrade. I think these changes make pumps seem *less* attractive. Maybe after people get used to fewer ponds these changes would be good. But all at once I think it's just be too much of a difficulty spike.

Most players can't make rubber, don't know how to fire a coal pump, don't know, how to make one. Just getting past that, making the more common knowledge like sheep pens would be great progress and give others a base to build off of for higher tech.

pein · 2019-05-01 16:40:42

engine is fine but wont work without oil

i made a few kerosene burners and they actually better

people called it many eve town, it had engine, it had oil
people still did charcoal to run the water

not sure why, they didn't get how oil works i think

nowadays i make horse carts go find iron and tarry spot

average towns stay away from desert and ice, so around 60 to 100 tiles distance to tarry spots
also i seen many places where they forget they had oil started or choose a spot further then they should

i made a new core in a town and used the south tarry spot cause someone had a cistern left near it, it was a fenced berry farm with the fences decayed so it was open

engine is not a direct upgrade to newcommen, it's a parallel but better one

the times i made wick burner, i think it's worth it, i urned charcoal to fill a cistern, and it's very painful, boring
meanwhile using a wick burner is decent trade

the reaso nwhy we don't need engines is we don't need that much water

sure, maybe mangoes?
cant justify more than 7 of them
that's a compost, that's a lot of wait and you don't need so much mangoes anyway

a barrel of 50 water would be better, like you can take only 50 if you got 50 at once
that way the upgrade is necessary

now a barrel of water would be needed for something like automatic watering of pots or some kind of electrolysis, cooling or whatever higher tech, then maybe people would make more water

right now you don't need that much water
the rest of the tech isn't there

what you would use it for?
i could see some aquarium or hot spa working, create a need for water
nerfing or buffing it wont help it that average players don't use much water and don't see the big picture

maybe i tell babies to get round stones and they do it sometimes

now jason did a snapshot of 10 random towns at 10 random moments and he quit on them
he said Puddy town used ponds

Puddy town 3 gen later had charcoal pump as was most advanced that day

how do they make it to gen 15 without advanced water?
well guess what, not all people think but some struggle, and go further to get food, water, maybe they make an outpost, maybe the last girl has a last girl and this goes for 90 min until people can come back
the old uncle who focuses on tech sees 60-100 people die in his lifetime
so you cant really tell a story based upon a moment

same way he nerfed iron cause "they had stacks of iron"
they made an effort to make a mine so they had iron, that's 1-2 people who spent a life on it
they had buildings: that's 1-2 people who gathered resources

average people don't do cisterns, wells, iron mines

Spoonwood · 2019-05-01 18:48:55

I agree with Pein that the kerosone newcomen pumps end up as a worthwhile investment of time (given the players can get taught to run it, which he points out might be a problem or will need some teaching... it's simple though).

The math comes as fairly simple once oil is up (I think I've been mis-stating it lately, so here's the correction). It takes two charcoal total to make crude oil and refine it for a tank of kerosone. That gives you six kerosone charges. If you used those two charcoals for a charcoal newcomen pump, the net is 2 buckets per charcoal, for 4 buckets of water total. You need one bucket of water to make oil. The net on each kerosone charge for a kerosone newcomen pump is 4 buckets of water. So, you get 23 buckets of water for 2 charcoals for the kerosone newcomen pump. Getting oil is rng, but that probably means you've made more water faster for the charcoal by the time the first tank has used all of its charges and it gets even better later, since 23/4 is 5.75. The diesel water pump nets 7 buckets of water per charge and requires one water and two charcoal for a tank. So, that's 41 buckets of water netted per tank.

Thus, we might say that a kerosone newcomen pump is about 5 times more efficient than a charcoal pump and a diesel water pum is about 10 more efficient than a charcoal pump. I think rounding down makes sense, since someone will need time to make the oil and also to run around making the oil.

I can understand people using the tarry spot which isn't closest, since tarry spots can end up difficult to find even with zoom.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-05-01 15:37:37

Pumps - Nerfing water/oil, buffing iron with a cost

#2 2019-05-01 15:39:23

Re: Pumps - Nerfing water/oil, buffing iron with a cost

#3 2019-05-01 15:44:24

Re: Pumps - Nerfing water/oil, buffing iron with a cost

#4 2019-05-01 15:47:41

Re: Pumps - Nerfing water/oil, buffing iron with a cost

#5 2019-05-01 15:54:23

Re: Pumps - Nerfing water/oil, buffing iron with a cost

#6 2019-05-01 16:03:08

Re: Pumps - Nerfing water/oil, buffing iron with a cost

#7 2019-05-01 16:40:42

Re: Pumps - Nerfing water/oil, buffing iron with a cost

#8 2019-05-01 18:48:55

Re: Pumps - Nerfing water/oil, buffing iron with a cost

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