Having a child should be a moment of joy... not like getting spam

Sukallinen · 2019-05-07 11:09:48

No limitations, /die ok etc etc... Just no bones, they are 10x other lived area (!)

Yeah, this sounds awesome:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OneLifeSuggest … die_issue/

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TL;DR:
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Funny "facts" after apocalypse:

Bones were bit crazy-more than usual- after apocalypse, I mean I was basically getting adobe then clay, running through bonepiles. Literally, 100 tiles right was closest clay deposit, so when I dropped by town it grew -parts of it- to about:

-20 x 15 kids /die bones = 300 /die kids ? Maybe ? (bigserver, usually 100 ppl only) So bonepile > settlement, by, ten times ? Do I exaggerate-not much I think and hope, next time screenshotting. About 10 living there, three hundred bones. /die areaban ? Must remember wrong.

-6 x 3 berries
-4 x 2 carrots and wheat = 26 farming tiles (1/10th+ of bones, growing too fast for water limits)

-6 x 6 pen and 3 x 3 pen property and clay later (1/5th of bones)

-utilities: kitchen, forge etc in later clay runs

I would LOVE to build a giant bonepile, lately I've seen one person's lifetime mainly cartfuls of kid bones away, hf (have fun) !

ps. ty my kid Maria, braving through Jungle to help get more clay with me, I also saved u from yellow fever w/ bananer np, looked so sad said "sorry"-why? It happens... She thought she'd die I guess. Fun liff'

Last edited by Sukallinen (2019-05-07 11:13:07)

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-07 16:03:35

Yeah, this is an issue that still hasn't be solved to my satisfaction yet.

I don't want a birth location preview, because that spoils the surprise of the game. You get "popped" into the middle of some situation, and often times it's hilarious. Your mother is riding a horse and you get left behind, etc.

Also, don't forget brand new players and new youtubers. That moment, of getting stuck in some random situation, is golden for them. Oh, that's my mom! Mom, where are you going?

As a veteran player, that moment has lost its interest factor, and you've got your finger on DIE, looking for a place you can get down to business. But new players pretty much always stick with the situation that they're handed, assuming that their mother will have them. If their mother walks away, they chase their mother.

And of course, that's the most pure form of the game. You're born here, and you gotta deal with it.

Of course, "forcing" players into that situation, given the way the game currently works, is impossible. If DIE wasn't an option, you could always run away and starve or find a bear. That's even more annoying than a DIE baby, right? Taking care of it, only to have it run away at the first opportunity.

One pretty obvious idea, but a dangerous one commercially, is a "death penalty." Whenever you die, for whatever reason, there's some window of time that you have to wait before getting reborn. Maybe this would affect every death but old age. Maybe it would vary based on other factors. Maybe they penalty time would rise with each death in quick succession, but decay over time. First death, you can get reborn right away. Second death within 5 minutes, you have to wait 30 second. Third death within 5 minutes, you have to wait 60 seconds, etc.

A more extreme version of this:

The game could literally be "One Hour One Life" where you only get one life token per hour. If you live to old age each time, you can play the game all day with no interruptions. If you dye young, you have to wait until the full hour passes. Obviously, people would just quit and not come back. Poor player retention (a term I hate) means poor sales, etc... commercial suicide.

The other option along these lines is a "pay to DIE" mechanic, where you buy some number of DIE tokens for extra money.

The original game idea had you paying $1 for each life. Maybe if you get to old age, you get your $1 back.

Of course, all these ideas also punish new players who make simple mistakes. The "churn" for new players, trying to survive longer and longer after making mistakes, is a big part of the early game for them.

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-07 16:30:25

New off-the-wall idea:

You are STUCK with one mom, as long as that's possible.

If you DIE or run away (die before age 5 or whatever), your mother is earmarked for you with a "reservation" that ensures you will be her next baby (and it overrides her cooldown, etc.)

You can keep running away, but every time you're reborn, there you are, right back with that same damn mother. You're playing as a whole cluster of eggs there, or something.

Of course, this also undercuts the "sorry, no food" thing... abandoned babies keep coming back. Maybe there would be some way for a mother to officially abandon you, which would break the cycle. Like, if she never picks you up at all, or walks away. Of course, then veteran players would ask their babies, "Want to stay?" and all that.... ugg.

The underlying problem is obviously this:

--Players want to pick where they are born, for a bunch of obvious reasons.

--This is a game that is supposedly, fundamentally, about not picking where you are born.

I'm thinking about roguelikes, or not-very-roguelikes, like Spelunky. Some runs in Spelunky are "good" runs, while others are bad. Ideally, you'd find a shop with a shotgun and a jetpack in level 2 every time, but most of the time you don't. But still, I've never seen ANYONE just suicide in the game to re-roll. Not because it's not in the spirit of the game, because who cares about the spirit of the game... but for some other reason. Probably because the shop doesn't come until level 2, so you already have substantial investment. You've already built up some capital in this run, and some kind of sunk costs fallacy wins you over.

If the shop was the very first thing you encountered when starting a new game, I'm sure players would suicide over and over until they got the perfect shop.

This is the same with character creation... re-rolling at the beginning of the game is cheap, and you have no capital yet. But if you had to play through some portion of the game to "discover" your character, or "roll" it along the way, trait-by-trait, by the time your character was complete, you'd have enough capital to just go with it, even if you hate playing Elvin thieves.

In OHOL, you have absolutely no capital investment by the time you have enough information to make a decision about whether you want this life or not. You take a look around your mother, and you just know.

So it seems like increasing your investment before you're given enough info to make the decision might help. This is kinda the opposite of a punishment. Instead, it's forcing a "wait and see" situation, which, by the time you've waited to see, you decide that youv'e waited long enough, and what you see is good enough to avoid waiting a second time.

So this is the opposite of a "pregnancy preview," but instead a "pregnancy de-view." During pregancy, you can hear your mother walking around, but you see nothing. At some point toward the end, you start seeing her, maybe a bigger and bigger area around her. Maybe this process takes a few minutes.

Or, to get really goofy, a 2-minute sperm-and-egg mini-game.

Whatever · 2019-05-07 16:38:18

jasonrohrer wrote:

New off-the-wall idea:
You are STUCK with one mom, as long as that's possible.
If you DIE or run away (die before age 5 or whatever), your mother is earmarked for you with a "reservation" that ensures you will be her next baby (and it overrides her cooldown, etc.)
You can keep running away, but every time you're reborn, there you are, right back with that same damn mother. You're playing as a whole cluster of eggs there, or something.

yes this is a great idea, i could just stop feeding my kids and see them die over and over again.
this would help me make the graveyard bigger, which is like you said "an important aesthetic part of the game"

Wuatduhf · 2019-05-07 17:08:28

Here's a thought for the 'investment' of a life.

When players spawn, their first year is 'inside' the mom. They are technically non-existent and follow the mother's view for a full minute before they 'pop' out like usual. During this time they cannot /die until after they're born.

This gives a minute of required 'investment' into the current life before they are born. The incoming player is forced to watch the lifestyle that they're about to be born into and can't immediately leave, making /die's not instant jumping from life to life.

Maybe there's an indicator to the mom to know that they're about to have a child, and they can better prepare for its arrival?

What's the thoughts on this approach? Is it too much of a 'life preview'?

MultiLife · 2019-05-07 17:11:53

Let's not make babies get stuck with moms (referring to Jason's posts); if the babies don't want me, I don't want them either. People would just kill the moms they are stuck with.

I like the thought of having an investment before you are born. My immediate thought is a perk that is strongest the first life you roll. Then it weakens the more you /die. But that's kinda like a soft restriction in a disguise.

The most important thing is that moms don't suffer if their baby is a picky person. Bones are a hindrance, angry babies are a hindrance, cooldown is a hindrance.

I do wish we could make the game so good we'd eagerly take any life we get but rebirth and player preferences are really difficult obstacles to overcome. Possibly impossible to overcome. But surely there are ways to tweak the situation. Good and bad.

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-05-07 17:15:40)

Dodge · 2019-05-07 17:27:29

@jasonrohrer

Dodge wrote:

What if using /die didnt kill the baby but only it's soul? Which then would be available for another soul.
You has the player that did /die could get reborn in another town but the other baby would be available for another player to spawn.
If nobody spawns in then the baby stays in a coma/afk and eventually dies.
There could be a limit of age where you cant spawn so you dont spawn as an adult or old person.

Would this be too much like a preview?

It's basically like a /die except the baby doesn't actually die and since it doesn't turn to bones and if another player takes it's place in the meantime the mother wont even notice that the previous player left.

Tarr · 2019-05-07 17:38:00

Dodge wrote:

Would this be too much like a preview?
It's basically like a /die except the baby doesn't actually die and since it doesn't turn to bones and if another player takes it's place in the meantime the mother wont even notice that the previous player left.

The idea of spawning in as someones great grandma on the verge of death is almost too hilarious to not include in that sort of situation though. "Oh grandma, you're alive. You were spacing out again... Happy sixtieth birthday!." And then you die just as soon as you were "born."

I overall like this idea a lot more than having to commit matricide to get out of early game or places I don't like.

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-07 18:00:51

Yeah, forgot about the matricide way out.... wow! Out damn spot, out!

Being a soul that can spawn in any AFK body sounds like a different game.

Being born as a screaming baby, almost every time, is a key experience that I wouldn't want to undercut.

Multi, I hear you about a growing "in-life" penalty for repeated /die or other young death. That's pretty sensible, and it wouldn't affect new players too badly. It could be simply a reduced lifespan, like 3 years for every young death, stopping at 40 or something. Don't be too picky. Maybe the only way to live to old age is to take what you're given.

As far as a life preview that you couldn't get out of, that's a bit better. It would only lessen the surprise slightly. Your mom is pregnant for 45 seconds, and you ride with her, watching her, but you can't DIE or anything. Maybe your view of the situation grows over time (a black shroud that shrinks back). Then you are born, and the game continues as normal, and you can run away, be abandoned, starve, etc.

This might be the perfect amount of investment per life, and not totally boring. You start paying attention to your mother's story. It would undercut the instant-screaming-baby hilarity...

I'd like to show a big stomach during pregnancy.... but it's really hard to make it look good with clothes. If I just did it the simplest way, it would stick out from behind clothing, which would look pretty weird... though maybe not? I dunno, I'd have to make some mock-ups and see.

Dodge · 2019-05-07 18:08:25

jasonrohrer wrote:

Yeah, forgot about the matricide way out.... wow! Out damn spot, out!
Being a soul that can spawn in any AFK body sounds like a different game.
Being born as a screaming baby, almost every time, is a key experience that I wouldn't want to undercut.
Multi, I hear you about a growing "in-life" penalty for repeated /die or other young death. That's pretty sensible, and it wouldn't affect new players too badly. It could be simply a reduced lifespan, like 3 years for every young death, stopping at 40 or something. Don't be too picky. Maybe the only way to live to old age is to take what you're given.

As far as a life preview that you couldn't get out of, that's a bit better. It would only lessen the surprise slightly. Your mom is pregnant for 45 seconds, and you ride with her, watching her, but you can't DIE or anything. Maybe your view of the situation grows over time (a black shroud that shrinks back). Then you are born, and the game continues as normal, and you can run away, be abandoned, starve, etc.
This might be the perfect amount of investment per life, and not totally boring. You start paying attention to your mother's story. It would undercut the instant-screaming-baby hilarity...
I'd like to show a big stomach during pregnancy.... but it's really hard to make it look good with clothes. If I just did it the simplest way, it would stick out from behind clothing, which would look pretty weird... though maybe not? I dunno, I'd have to make some mock-ups and see.

Well spawning in a body would be limited to a 1-2 year old maybe 3 if no one spawns until 3 the baby SID's so no spawning as an adult or old person and you could make the baby scream when a new player spawn in that body.

Last edited by Dodge (2019-05-07 18:09:02)

Wuatduhf · 2019-05-07 18:52:07

jasonrohrer wrote:

As far as a life preview that you couldn't get out of, that's a bit better. It would only lessen the surprise slightly. Your mom is pregnant for 45 seconds, and you ride with her, watching her, but you can't DIE or anything. Maybe your view of the situation grows over time (a black shroud that shrinks back). Then you are born, and the game continues as normal, and you can run away, be abandoned, starve, etc.
This might be the perfect amount of investment per life, and not totally boring. You start paying attention to your mother's story. It would undercut the instant-screaming-baby hilarity...
I'd like to show a big stomach during pregnancy.... but it's really hard to make it look good with clothes. If I just did it the simplest way, it would stick out from behind clothing, which would look pretty weird... though maybe not? I dunno, I'd have to make some mock-ups and see.

Oh man, that's gonna be weird to see! But probably is the best visual indicator to let the mom know she should be expecting. At the least, this would be a HUGE plus to 38-year old mothers so that they know between then and 40 if they've got a baby about to come out.

Also, maybe a UI visual indicator of having a babby is the mom suddenly 'gaining' 1 empty food pip per child about to be born in 45 seconds, and it goes away when they are born. (if twins/triples/quads, it goes up to 2/3/4 temporary empty pips). This would technically give an added bonus that the mom can eat small foods to fill in the 1-4 pips and increase their Yum. Food for thought. No, wait, thought for food?

Spoonwood · 2019-05-07 18:57:58

jasonrohrer wrote:

New off-the-wall idea:
You are STUCK with one mom, as long as that's possible.

So, one of two things happen for players who insist on playing on bigserver2.

1. Players just won't play for 20 minutes or so and thus end up less likely to play the game in general. Smaller families ends up as a consequence of that over time.

2. Resentment of parents comes as likely to increase. Jason, I think others have told you before that basically 'forcing' people to play a family ends up likely to lead to griefing. And when people grief they are NOT playing for their families. They are doing the exact opposite. Consequently, your idea ends up contrary to your stated desire of having people play for their lineages.

Also, this leads to less player control.

jasonrohrer wrote:

This is a game that is supposedly, fundamentally, about not picking where you are born.

I have grown weary of you telling this fiction over and over again. No, the game overall doesn't work that way. First off, Eve-chaining can exist on any server with less than four fertile females. Second, and more importantly, even on bigserver2, some people (I'm not one of them) get around the whole lineage ban by having multiple accounts. People have informed me that such works. Or they try walking away 200 tiles to prevent an area ban. Or if they hear a belltower they walk/ride back to that town or try to play their again.

Since enough of your playerbase already gets around the ways you've tried to prevent picking where people live, would you recognize that such happens AND take their desires into account? They've been your paying customers Jason. End the lineage ban and give the idea up that people shouldn't play in the same spot in multiple lives. People don't understand the multiple aspects of the game very well really without living multiple lives in the same spot also. You have been completely wrong to think that people should be limited in choice with respect to picking town location, and not having an 'Eve' button is also a serious lack of insight on your part.

Booklat1 · 2019-05-07 19:06:51

spoon is right, if im born in a shitty town over and over its just easier to
1 play another game
2 bow my mom

I absolutely hate these "my babies keep dying" posts, random births and /die already greatly reduce the annoyance of escaping babies and most times a cooldown reset helps.

And if you dont want kids just play as male

Last edited by Booklat1 (2019-05-07 19:10:53)

Twisted · 2019-05-07 19:08:47

Spoonwood wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
This is a game that is supposedly, fundamentally, about not picking where you are born.
I have grown weary of you telling this fiction over and over again. No, the game overall doesn't work that way.

Yes, it does work that way. That's one of the main draws of the game.

The fact that you mostly play a multiplayer game on what is essentialy a private single player server doesn't magically change what the game is for most 'standard' players.

MultiLife · 2019-05-07 19:30:48

jasonrohrer wrote:

Multi, I hear you about a growing "in-life" penalty for repeated /die or other young death. That's pretty sensible, and it wouldn't affect new players too badly. It could be simply a reduced lifespan, like 3 years for every young death, stopping at 40 or something. Don't be too picky. Maybe the only way to live to old age is to take what you're given.

No no no no no penalty! I'm talking about a diluting reward! People who take the first life they get are granted a perk, and people who reroll and reroll will eventually lose the perk or get a really diluted version of the perk!

Decreasing reward>>>>increasing punishment! Way better than punishing. In my opinion.

Makes a guy go "but damn, I WOULD get the maximum reward this life... is it worth to reroll and get half the perk?"

It's a very raw idea but still, the important part is, let's reward players who make the best out of every life and make rerollers decide if they are missing out or nah.

EDIT: One perk I'd love is that in your elder years you have more hunger pips. You still die at 60 but if you never reroll as a baby you could have +3 fancy looking pip squares through your elderly years. It'd be awesome already, I could ramble more as a granny or supervise/teach/work, with those extra pips; less food waste too.
So yeah people who took the first life they got: +3 extra elder pips. People who rerolled once can get +1. People who rerolled twice or more get no perk. Every day you can get the perk again if you keep taking first lives. If you keep rerolling you will have the normal tiny baby stomach as an elder.
EDIT2: Also, if my mom pleads me to /die, I won't mind losing the extra elder pips or getting the diluted reward. It's really rare to get a mom who pleads you to /die anyways, and losing my 'first life reward' is not that bad. I can deal with "regular elderly years" as I already do.

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-05-07 19:44:00)

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-07 19:34:52

Well, that's the idea of the game, anyway. Thrown into a different situation every life, and making the best of it. The fact that players actively fight that doesn't change the intent.

I tested some pregnant belly mock-ups, and it actually looks good, even under clothing. Only the tip of the belly shows from behind dresses and coats, and it almost looks like a "shadow" sticking out through the fabric. It pretty much looks fine, and of course looks really great when naked. "Take off that coat, Sally, I think you're pregnant!"

I'm going to try this and see how it feels to "ride" with your mother for 45 seconds and see more and more of the world.

Old:

WAITING TO BE BORN

New:

WAITING TO BE CONCEIVED

futurebird · 2019-05-07 19:36:39

I like the idea that you get a preview of your life, can't die, just have to watch for a bit, then you would have a window where you could die before being born maybe? Like:

10 seconds of a small tight view of what mom is doing just the 6 tiles around her.
10 seconds the view zooms out mom get a bump, you can die now, and she might be sad, but no bone spam this is the polite time to die.
You are born already 20 seconds old. You can die for 40 more seconds and it will annoy her, but hopefully enough people are now either sucked in to the life, or weeded out by the exit window that it won't happen as often.

I think making people wait for each die would have an impact on the frequency. It make it's no longer "free" you waste time.

I'm also down with only getting to play one game every hour. But I worry a little about server populations.
I would enjoy it though. Maybe it could be a "hardcore" mode that you are required to play in to participate in weekly contests for things like oldest average grand-child or gran-niece/nephew age.

I'd play those contests just to brag about it TBH. But if you give out a free game code each week and I won one I'd bring some cool new players in.

Last edited by futurebird (2019-05-07 19:40:51)

futurebird · 2019-05-07 19:42:53

By the way: I totally use /die from time to time. I get it. I've had a sister in a eve camp say to me "please try to come back to us" and maaaan I'm on it. I'm coming back! But, any little slow down could discourage that. right now it's only the women who pay the price.

And whoever said "just play as a dude" oy. you don't get it. I want to have a kid and RAISE THEM in the game, not have a pile of bones. It's not that complex.

MultiLife · 2019-05-07 19:46:59

futurebird wrote:

By the way: I totally use /die from time to time. I get it. I've had a sister in a eve camp say to me "please try to come back to us" and maaaan I'm on it. I'm coming back!

But you can't get back if you /die? You get area ban nowadays right? Before /die gave a lineage ban. So if you need to reroll to be a girl, you gotta starve to have a chance to get to that mom.

I think a lot of players think they can get back with /die, not knowing what it does "behind the curtains". It blocks you out from those women, ensuring you won't be bothering them anymore.

Or do I have old info/have understood it wrong?

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-05-07 19:50:44)

Turnipseed · 2019-05-07 19:55:23

jasonrohrer wrote:

Or, to get really goofy, a 2-minute sperm-and-egg mini-game.

I want this i want this now

futurebird · 2019-05-07 19:59:22

I wait 90 min tho and you can get back, but you really have to abuse /die to do it.

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-07 20:27:26

Ugg... the pregnancy preview thing is a lot of work (new protocol, lots of room for bugs, etc.), and I'm not even sure if it would solve the problem, and it could be annoying (yet even MORE time where you really can't do anything before you play the game as a baby), and it would be a pretty huge change to a pretty great part of the game for new players (popping into existence as a screaming baby). I can imagine doing all that work and then ripping it out a few weeks later.

So... I've got a pregnant belly drawn, just in case I ever want to do it.... but for now, I'm going to table it.

Though I wouldn't want a "mom picking" interface to be the primary mode in the game, I do see a huge problem here for veteran players. It almost feels like it needs to be a somewhat hidden mode, so as not to mess up the experience for brand new players.

Maybe after /die the first time, you get some kind of mom-picking screen. Maybe it's as simple as a list of names, and you pick one.

Or maybe we need to get back to some way for veteran players to control where they are reborn in-game. Maybe it's as simple as dying of old age in a family puts that family at the top of your list when you respawn after your lineage ban is over. I'm thinking specifically about futurebird using DIE to come back to a family later. Is that the main source of DIE, generally? People waiting 90 minutes and then trying to return?

I'm sure there's also a mix of people who are just scoping situations, want to play as Eve, want to play in a town, etc.

Dodge · 2019-05-07 20:37:03

Or we could go back to no /die , runner babies. BUT if you die at any time you are lineage banned.

It was funny when babies where running away screaming and mothers trying to run after them to feed them.

Plus it would take care of the bone issue since babies would run far from town.

The main reason /die was added is to not spawn in the same town, but if you get lineage ban by simply dying problem is solved.

edit: nvm didnt think about the situation where you get abandonned then lineage banned hmm, maybe being banned would be the default but babies could use /live to not get banned.

Last edited by Dodge (2019-05-07 20:39:52)

futurebird · 2019-05-07 20:41:51

What if you could pick from a list of names, BUT if you do that you only get to play once that hour? So, OK, go back again but make the most of it.

futurebird · 2019-05-07 20:47:33

Jason, here are the results to a survey I did on the die issue from people in this forum. It has about 60 responses. Wanting to go back is up there on the list of reasons.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-LR8F9H6BV/

One Hour One Life Forums

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Re: Having a child should be a moment of joy... not like getting spam

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Re: Having a child should be a moment of joy... not like getting spam

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Re: Having a child should be a moment of joy... not like getting spam

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Re: Having a child should be a moment of joy... not like getting spam

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Re: Having a child should be a moment of joy... not like getting spam

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Re: Having a child should be a moment of joy... not like getting spam

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Re: Having a child should be a moment of joy... not like getting spam

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Re: Having a child should be a moment of joy... not like getting spam

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Re: Having a child should be a moment of joy... not like getting spam

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Re: Having a child should be a moment of joy... not like getting spam

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Re: Having a child should be a moment of joy... not like getting spam

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Re: Having a child should be a moment of joy... not like getting spam

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