[Trade] Different ethnicities have unique recipes.

Dodge · 2019-05-09 20:08:52

Language is going to be added and with this each village will be the same race.

What if there was unique obects craftable for each ethnic groups.

One of the reason there is no trade, is because everyone can do everything.

If only the chinese know how to make black powder and only the mexicans can extract silver from ore they would trade these ressources.

If these recipes are essential for higher level of tech then trading would be a necessity.

Eventually there would be trading routes between all the different villages and those unique ressources could be traded.

This would definitly make trading a thing but it wouldnt make sense that mexicans for example couldnt learn how to make black powder, i guess from a gameplay perspective it could make sense.

Imo it would be better if over time the other ethnicities could learn the recipes somehow BUT maybe they could be much less efficient (because they dont have the same years of knowledge and experience as the original ethnic group) so maybe it could take 5 times more ressources to make the same recipe.

This way a village wouldnt be stuck but would only be way less efficient and trading would still make sense, since every ethnic group could trade their crafted goods.

Maybe just making the recipes way more efficient for the original ethnic group and way less efficient for the others could make trading worth it, without going trough the exclusivity phase.

Basically every ethnic group would have their specialties and could trade these goods with other villages, if there is enough special recipes per ethnic group this could make trading really interesting since it would be much more worth it to trade than wasting ressources on doing something you dont have the specialty for.

Last edited by Dodge (2019-05-09 20:11:01)

futurebird · 2019-05-09 20:19:27

Where does this leave the learning and skill aspect of the game? Making a diesel engine can't be complex because anyone who is born into the engine race needs to be good at it.

Or would this only be for basic raw resources so some people just get more iron out of a mine than others?

If it's for complex tech I think it kinda kills some of the fun of learning. If used for raw materials it might make sense, though trade isn't mostly about raw materials, it's about added value.

Important to note that black powder was never a big export from China, as soon as it's utility in war became clear people learned to make it wherever it was needed.

Dodge · 2019-05-09 20:57:13

Or other ethnic groups would have no nerf but the original ethnic groups would have a serious buff, so for example the chinese could make 5 times more black powder with the same amount of ressources.

This way it's not an annoying nerf that prevents progress, but at the same time ethnicities still have specific goods to trade, since they will have an abundance of it.

If it's balanced well enough between the different recipes trading would make sense especially if it's objects that are always needed and not just one time items like a water pump.

Let's say silver and black powder have a big importance for late game, chinese and mexicans could trade their excess silver and black powder for each other or for other ressources.

voy178 · 2019-05-09 21:10:13

Isn't this overlooking why certain ethnicities are said to be better at certain things? It's obvious it comes to environmental impact. If you're born into a coastal fishing tribe then hell yeah you'll probably learn to be a better fisher than most, but it's not in your DNA.

Starknight_One · 2019-05-09 22:33:17

futurebird wrote:

Where does this leave the learning and skill aspect of the game? Making a diesel engine can't be complex because anyone who is born into the engine race needs to be good at it.
Or would this only be for basic raw resources so some people just get more iron out of a mine than others?
If it's for complex tech I think it kinda kills some of the fun of learning. If used for raw materials it might make sense, though trade isn't mostly about raw materials, it's about added value.
Important to note that black powder was never a big export from China, as soon as it's utility in war became clear people learned to make it wherever it was needed.

That's because the Chinese didn't discover how to make granulated powder of a particular size; they just mixed the ingredients together, instead of wetting them, drying the resultant slurry in cakes, and grinding the cakes to the desired fineness. The resulting mixture burned unevenly and left much residue, and was only suitable for use in fireworks and crude war rockets (many of which failed to launch, or detonate, or both).

Plus, the ingredients for black powder aren't that difficult to find, most places in the world. Sulfur is usually the sticking point. Potassium nitrate collects in manure piles and carbon (coal or charcoal) is as common as dirt.

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-09 22:40:16

Yes, I have thought about this.

The easiest thing would be a simple subset.... like... 1/3 of the crafting recipes just don't work for your tribe. You can make the piston but not the engine, and another tribe can make the engine but not the piston. Trade.

However, I can imagine this being a royal pain in the ass!

The "special recipe per tribe" is a special case of this idea... hand designed, and harder to balance. I would need to make each special recipe mater.

We already talked about the "biome expert" solution, where you can only interact with natural resources in your home biome. Prairie people can snare rabbits, swamp people can harvest clay, etc. That is another special case of this idea.

The pain in the ass part is that the game works differently every life. I think a lot of players would be confused and frustrated.

Now.... one way that this could work is if you were "locked" into your "subset tribe" forever, like for the life of the game. So, for you, you could never catch rabbits, ever. You could get very good at your subset, though, whatever that is. No crafting hints about rabbits for you.

And then, maybe, all players in your same subset are always born into your family, or something.... which is why you care about your family, maybe.

Hard to make sure there are enough people of each subset alive at one time, though....

Maybe you get stuck in the same crafting subset as long as your family is alive, and keep getting born in that family. But as soon as that family dies out, a new subset is created.

Also, maybe this would be less frustrating if only very high-level crafting recipes were subsetted. So everyone can do basics, but you need to trade for advanced stuff.

Booklat1 · 2019-05-09 22:44:34

personally, i think making biomes bigger and further apart would achieve similar goals without being a massive annoyance.

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-09 23:46:35

I'm really, really against crafting restrictions. Not only is it a massive can of worms, but it's not fun having parts of the game permanently cut off just to try and shoe horn trading in. Ultimately, it is your game; but I feel like that would be a bad look.

Maybe just crafting bonuses? Make it feel more like a reward for being being a swamp person, rather than a punishment for not being one. But then the game would probably have to be balanced around that (less rabbit spawns because prairie people get two furs per rabbit, and stuff like that).

futurebird · 2019-05-10 00:08:38

I have some deep philosophical objection to this concept that I'm finding it hard to articulate. But, intentionally or not it's a caste system isn't it? Rather than what you have learned, how hard you work and what you care about shaping your life what caste your are born into becomes a much more major factor, and yeah... you can say "that's how the world often works" but if it's something we have to hard-code in to force to exist that isn't "how the world works" but how we want it to work.

One of the things I like about the game is it kind of shows up what may or may not be "human nature" in imperfect ways true. For example the impact that having a kid can have on your life is very interesting and not often explored in games. To me this would be like if the game FORCED you to stay home and take care of kids if you are a woman. It's much better that there are benefits to staying home that make sense, but also drawbacks (what if you are the best at finding iron and the village needs it?)

It's a choice. So, could there be dynamics that lead to professions being passed on not by merit but by blood? Of course there could. Should we just code it in and force people to act that way?

Please no thank you.

Last edited by futurebird (2019-05-10 00:09:51)

Dodge · 2019-05-10 04:45:29

Yeah i was thinking more about advanced techs and not basic stuff like snaring rabbits, also a buff rather than a nerf, then balance ressources around it.

BUT there is a problem with this concept that bothers me, why would you have a buff depending on race?

Everyone can learn as much as the next man, dont need to be aspecific race to be good at something, so the core concept of this idea is not satisfying even if it would make trade viable.

My original idea was to implement a skill system with professions and nerfs and buffs depending on your level of skill, if you smith this life you become better and get access to new recipes and get have a chance to get more ressources per craft.

There could even be a global skill for the entire family (knowlegde passed down)

The ethnic idea is easier to implement than the professions and skill system but makes less sense

I might make another post about this.

edit: maybe some tribes could have inherent access to some recipes without needing to be expert or skilled in some professions.

Last edited by Dodge (2019-05-10 04:47:24)

honikker · 2019-05-10 07:25:13

Could just make the tribe-specialized crafts more of an extra bonus. Different clothing styles or cosmetics or little things that don't impact the main tech tree, or a few different recipes or ingredients, or other little side-things. Maybe one tribe can make special color dyes or something. I dunno how willing people would be to trade for that kind'a stuff though.

Sukallinen · 2019-05-10 07:35:10

Those kind of ideas make just someone from your mexican heritage come to chinese town, grab a girl and voila' slave trade. Human standard result ("human condition"), but not ideal for game.

pein · 2019-05-10 07:35:31

that needs a good balance

lets say one nation can make diamonds and other can make silver
if both are used for jewelry, then you dont really need to trade, you can just born into the right family and try out the other one

if its essential but different purpose, then opens up some other possibilities
if its combination of two resources or 2 of 3 but different results, then it wont allow much choice but trade with the right one or the one you get
A+B=X
B+C=Y
C+A=Z
where X,Y,Z is similar value but different purpose

I think some NPC trade would be better to solve the transport issues

but to trade, you need a currency, a value system, and needs and excess
if you cant do anything with 200 pies, you just dont want 200 pies
if you want 200 pies, you still make 200 pies rather than spend the time negotiating for it

if you can use 200 pies to unlock something what cannot be unlocked otherwise, and want it faster than you might trade 20 tires for it

same issue with water, if you don know you need it or you dont use it, you dont care
so the few people who see the bigger picture are doing it for others, never to get any value out of it
but you cant deny that this is just roleplay mostly, you want to leave more for your kids than you are born with
and pretty selfless, like when was the last time you got back to your city to see how it developed? rarely

you make a pen, you get 30 iron, next life you born in an eve camp and you can do it again

we need something permanent throughout lives which lasts, which gives some benefits to you, even if its not forever, for a week, for a day

my idea that multiple families for a team. you are locked to a team for a day or more, but you are not locked to a place or a family
you still benefit for your next life if you help your team

even if you got a golden sword what everyone wants, you are 59 and no one around to see, whats the point of it? you got the most rare item but you run into a mosquito and die before you got back to city

right now nothing is worth for you, why should you care for others?
i mean is nice and all and i can make a good town for you and you make one good for me, and next life we switch families by chance and i appreciate your efforts, but does anyone have to do anything for that? does anyone gets punished by bad choices or lack of work?

we need more content, something that you can not reach easy, you need multiple lives to be closer to it, lets say that you got a population cap of 10 per family.
if you do wel land reach X points, your "soul" will increase the cap next life to 11. Then your presence matters, your work had a meaning.
In a week people can increase their families to 50, and then all resets. You can try other team for next week.

Tech should matter, advancing should matter.

Dodge · 2019-05-10 08:21:33

Tbh i dont like the idea of ethnic specific recipes for multiple reasons, too limiting, doesnt make sense long term etc

I made another post with something that is much better imo : https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 764#p57764

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-10 08:48:50

Ah, was confusing the ethnicity and race, my bad. I read ethnicity and thought you were talking about race, probably because race (skin and hair color) is all we have at the moment. I'm not sure you can physically portray ethnicity. Once you make it something you can physically see, wouldn't that make it a race? I guess you could do different accessories to show what ethnicity you are. It wouldn't be something you could take off or put on, it'd be a part of the character model.

Also I'm a little confused. You said you don't like the idea of ethnic specific recipes? Wasn't that what the whole OP in favor of? "Create ethnic specific recipes to incentivize (force) trade", or did I misunderstand it.

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#1 2019-05-09 20:08:52

[Trade] Different ethnicities have unique recipes.

#2 2019-05-09 20:19:27

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#3 2019-05-09 20:57:13

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#4 2019-05-09 21:10:13

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#5 2019-05-09 22:33:17

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#6 2019-05-09 22:40:16

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#7 2019-05-09 22:44:34

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#8 2019-05-09 23:46:35

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#9 2019-05-10 00:08:38

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#10 2019-05-10 04:45:29

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#11 2019-05-10 07:25:13

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