Improving the Wiki

lychee · 2019-05-09 22:06:49

Hiya!

There's a bunch of information that's out of date on the wiki (e.g. Milkweed doesn't respawn automatically when plucked at a fruiting stage, digging potatoes doesn't cost uses to shovels anymore)... and a bunch of other little things everywhere.

This makes it really challenging for new players who rely disproportionately on the wiki and youtube videos (also out of date) to learn the game. Onetech is a fantastic resource, but it does not cover popular meta in the game -- e.g. 2x tilling, why compost is important -- so I think it's really quite important to continue updating the wiki.

I started playing OHOL two weeks ago, and I love it dearly, but OHOL has one of the steepest learning curves I've ever found in any game. OHOL also has enormous meta to it, and it's virtually impossible to play without learning the meta. Unfortunately, the public documentation and learning resources for this game are really in shambles.

In order to support the healthy growth of the player base (and not scare them away thanks to the crazy the learning curve), I personally think it's really important to continue developing beginner-friendly resources on high-visibility places like the wiki.

+ + +

Recently, I started to assemble a new guide on the wiki (work in progress), since there's a lot of important information that isn't covered in the Getting Started or Eve guides (both of which are quite messy!).

A few things I wanted to ask:

1. Is it okay if I do this? Is there like a wiki admin or somebody?

2. Is it okay to include meta on the wiki? I'm trying to filter information for (almost) universally accepted meta, but technically it's still meta even if everybody uses "SAY F FOR FOOD". At the minimum, I'd like to cover terminology.

3. I'm a noob! It's slightly embarrassing to admit how many hours I've put into playing, watching videos, and reading guides in the past two weeks, but I'm still an inexperienced noob! I could really use some help from the experienced user base, especially when I have something wrong.

4. Any good guides on the forums? I've found pein's guides and ferna's food guide, but I want to make sure things are (1) up to date and (2) broadly agreed on. I'd love to read any other good guides that you know of!

5. Is it okay if I rewrite good chunks of the Starting Guide and Eve guide for conciseness/readability?

Thanks!

Last edited by lychee (2019-05-09 22:22:46)

futurebird · 2019-05-09 22:36:56

I think this is a great project and I'd love to help you out.

1%Spacebar · 2019-05-10 07:11:31

I'd love to help update the wiki. Heaps of recent things are missing from it, like pretty much everything from the Sweet and Spicy update and updates after. It needs some attention, and I'd be more than happy to give it.

Spoonwood · 2019-05-10 10:04:09

The 'say F at 2 pips' rule got based on there existing one extra pip on the food bar so that the parent could feed the child before it starves while also allowing time for lag. Thus, it wasn't 'say F at 1 pip', because the child had only 1 bar of time before s/he would starve. However, that rule got based on starvation occurring at 0 pips. Now starvation happens at -1 pip.

Consequently, the new rule should be to 'say F at 1 pip' since that still allows one pip of leeway.

futurebird · 2019-05-10 10:58:56

There are some forum threads with info that should be added to the wiki. Perhaps people could link to some of them as we work on expanding the topics covered?

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-10 11:54:20

Huh, never seen anyone else say "hiya". Thought it was only my thing

Also, this would be a continuous job because the game changes every week. Probably why it's been so neglected. If you want to be the one to take this job, then thank you for your efforts.

Last edited by FeignedSanity (2019-05-10 11:55:48)

lychee · 2019-05-10 16:03:22

futurebird wrote:

I think this is a great project and I'd love to help you out.

1%Spacebar wrote:

I'd love to help update the wiki. Heaps of recent things are missing from it, like pretty much everything from the Sweet and Spicy update and updates after. It needs some attention, and I'd be more than happy to give it.

That's great! I think anyone can edit the wiki directly, so it's helpful to work on anything you think is important!

Personally, I think the Starting Guide and the Eve guide are the most important articles, since those are the two pages that a new player is most likely to read first.

Spoonwood wrote:

The 'say F at 2 pips' rule got based on there existing one extra pip on the food bar so that the parent could feed the child before it starves while also allowing time for lag. Thus, it wasn't 'say F at 1 pip', because the child had only 1 bar of time before s/he would starve. However, that rule got based on starvation occurring at 0 pips. Now starvation happens at -1 pip.
Consequently, the new rule should be to 'say F at 1 pip' since that still allows one pip of leeway.

That's cool! I didn't know this. Most of the youtubers I watch still follow the 2 pip meta.

Is this considered common knowledge/meta right now? It'd be great if there was a forum topic discussing this establishing this as meta. (would help to be able to cite something)

I've been thinking quite carefully about what sort of information to include on a "Beginner's Guide" while keeping it concise. There's a lot of tiny obscure things that experienced players do for a marginal increase of efficiency -- for instance plucking gooseberries from the bush that has the least berries first -- but I don't want to clutter the first thing a beginner reads with lots of low-yield trivia to memorize.

Should say F at 1 pip be a rule? Is it important enough to make it into a list of concise things to remember? How often is it that mom's don't make it in time with calling at 1 pip, and will new players feel traumatized if they die like that? Is it better to be safe than sorry? I don't really expect new players to be able to adjust contextually to their circumstances (e.g. colder temperature if born in wild, mom is busy) like experienced players do, so should that be taken into consideration?

Would it be better to write "say F when hungry" to leave some degree of ambiguity? Allowing for a player to optimize themselves in the future when they get experienced?

I'm really quite lost! There's a lot of hard choices! XD

futurebird wrote:

There are some forum threads with info that should be added to the wiki. Perhaps people could link to some of them as we work on expanding the topics covered?

Sounds like a great idea! I'm not too familiar with which forum threads, but would be nice.

Last edited by lychee (2019-05-10 16:06:16)

lychee · 2019-05-10 16:26:11

Questions:

Is "never eat carrots regardless of your age because they're better used for something else" still part of the meta?

I can't remember when I learned this one (I think from a youtube video, somebody got stabbed lol), but I just wanted to check!

Also are potatoes good or bad? XD (yes, I have to ask lol)

denriguez · 2019-05-10 17:54:36

lychee wrote:

Questions:
Is "never eat carrots regardless of your age because they're better used for something else" still part of the meta?

I think no. Ever since seed bowls and carrot stacks were added, carrots have become much less of a hassle and are generally around in abundance. They're not great food, and are better used for other things, but they're good for a yum chain. As with anything, though, don't eat *only* carrots, and never eat the *last* carrot.

lychee wrote:

Questions:
Also are potatoes good or bad? XD (yes, I have to ask lol)

Jason fixed potatoes, so while they're still not amazing, they at least don't waste the shovel anymore. I'd say they're fine. They're another good variety food, and one potato is essentially two different foods--one for each half--so it's good to carry in a backpack.

Booklat1 · 2019-05-10 18:03:20

lychee wrote:

Questions:
Is "never eat carrots regardless of your age because they're better used for something else" still part of the meta?
I can't remember when I learned this one (I think from a youtube video, somebody got stabbed lol), but I just wanted to check!
Also are potatoes good or bad? XD (yes, I have to ask lol)

this is more a rule of thumb than an absolute efficient strat. Resource-wise carrots aren't great food because of the tilling cost, however you should be growing a few carrots as an eve for the fast output they offer (and few tills wont kill you)

1%Spacebar · 2019-05-11 04:32:14

lychee wrote:

-snip-

I think a beginner's guide should cover the basics of being useful in every stage of a town. The basics of jobs like baking, shepherding, farming, and maybe smithing should be covered, but perhaps a guide for each of these, or just one big guide for all of them, to talk about them in more depth. Anyways, general meta, and why it's meta could be talked about. Things like F for food, not shearing all sheep, leaving a row of carrots to seed. I think a list of things not to do should be in the guide; property fences, picking all milkweed on fruiting, or on normal/flowering when there's no seeds.
Now that I read the guide, I feel like a few of these things could be done in their own guides. Hm.

Other pages, such as the Eve guide (like you said in your OP) need work. Especially the page covering Water, as it's become extremely inaccurate after the Pump Overhaul update. However, a lot of items from the past two or three updates are missing. Just looking at
the Sweet and Spicy page (https://onehouronelife.gamepedia.com/Version_213), almost all of the items listed in it don't have a page. I get that it can take time to write even a page for an update, but that update dropped more than a few weeks ago, and the few items included in it, that do have pages, don't have pictures or are just stubs. The Town Guide is incomplete, and a few guides don't exist, such as the City Guide, although I don't see much use for them just yet. I think a Newcomen Guide would be nice, though.

Anyways, I've come up with a bit of a list of things to do.

-Update outdated pages (Water,

-Clean up and improve/complete guides (Eve Guide, Beginner Guide, Town Guide)

-Create pages for items

-Pretty much just mash the 'random' button and see what you can do

It's a bit of a work in progress..

I hope this wasn't too much stupid nonsense.

lychee · 2019-05-11 05:17:14

1%Spacebar wrote:

lychee wrote:
-snip-
I think a beginner's guide should cover the basics of being useful in every stage of a town. The basics of jobs like baking, shepherding, farming, and maybe smithing should be covered, but perhaps a guide for each of these, or just one big guide for all of them, to talk about them in more depth. Anyways, general meta, and why it's meta could be talked about. Things like F for food, not shearing all sheep, leaving a row of carrots to seed. I think a list of things not to do should be in the guide; property fences, picking all milkweed on fruiting, or on normal/flowering when there's no seeds.
Now that I read the guide, I feel like a few of these things could be done in their own guides. Hm.
Other pages, such as the Eve guide (like you said in your OP) need work. Especially the page covering Water, as it's become extremely inaccurate after the Pump Overhaul update. However, a lot of items from the past two or three updates are missing. Just looking at
the Sweet and Spicy page (https://onehouronelife.gamepedia.com/Version_213), almost all of the items listed in it don't have a page. I get that it can take time to write even a page for an update, but that update dropped more than a few weeks ago, and the few items included in it, that do have pages, don't have pictures or are just stubs. The Town Guide is incomplete, and a few guides don't exist, such as the City Guide, although I don't see much use for them just yet. I think a Newcomen Guide would be nice, though.
Anyways, I've come up with a bit of a list of things to do.
-Update outdated pages (Water,
-Clean up and improve/complete guides (Eve Guide, Beginner Guide, Town Guide)
-Create pages for items
-Pretty much just mash the 'random' button and see what you can do
It's a bit of a work in progress..
I hope this wasn't too much stupid nonsense.

100% agree! Lot's of work to do!

The recent swords and language update is incredible though -- lot's of things likely to change.

Haha I think Jason might be making updates faster than than wiki can keep up.

I've hesitated on writing much on water because I'm not too experienced and I haven't seen that many threads on the current meta (and I'm actually not playing that much -- watching more than playing atm), and I had a hunch that the 40-tile spring placement was going to change.

However, I think it's probably important to get water, newcomen, and even oil guide asap because they're critical now, and there's plenty of old players who aren't familiar with kerosene tech or meta regarding the importance of rubber, etc.

Swords really destabilizes things -- interested to see how this plays out over a few days -- if swords stay, there's going to be meta that develops on this topic for sure.

Last edited by lychee (2019-05-11 05:17:32)

1%Spacebar · 2019-05-11 07:14:58

lychee wrote:

100% agree! Lot's of work to do!
The recent swords and language update is incredible though -- lot's of things likely to change.
Haha I think Jason might be making updates faster than than wiki can keep up.
I've hesitated on writing much on water because I'm not too experienced and I haven't seen that many threads on the current meta (and I'm actually not playing that much -- watching more than playing atm), and I had a hunch that the 40-tile spring placement was going to change.
However, I think it's probably important to get water, newcomen, and even oil guide asap because they're critical now, and there's plenty of old players who aren't familiar with kerosene tech or meta regarding the importance of rubber, etc.
Swords really destabilizes things -- interested to see how this plays out over a few days -- if swords stay, there's going to be meta that develops on this topic for sure.

Yeah, a week or two just isn't enough (sometimes) to write proper- or at least drafts- of every new piece of content in each update. I wouldn't stress about it though, this isn't a full-time job that expects perfection in everything. It's ok to be a few days or a week late. But, as things go, the sooner, the better.

i've also been hesitant about editing the water page: if not because I've had very little experience in writing wikis, but because of how big a change it would be. I'd pretty much have to rewrite the entire thing. I don't even know much about the new content and rules, since it's all new turf.

About the swords though, I want to at least butcher a town with one. I miss out on butter knives, so I'm not passing this up. Blood will be spilt.

lychee · 2019-05-12 16:33:53

I have a Yum Bonus article up.

lychee · 2019-05-18 06:28:40

Bump! Would still very much appreciate help!

Is there anyone out there who likes eve-ing interested in updating the eve-ing guide?

InSpace · 2019-05-18 06:50:08

"Controversy" part is unnecessary and should be removed, maybe even the meta part as well, a wiki is supposed to be informational, not filled with personal opinions of yourself and certain communities, like a discord or forum.

And the release date of the game mechanic should not be a main part of the page, it could fit better as a trivia

lychee · 2019-05-18 13:37:26

InSpace wrote:

"Controversy" part is unnecessary and should be removed, maybe even the meta part as well, a wiki is supposed to be informational, not filled with personal opinions of yourself and certain communities, like a discord or forum.
And the release date of the game mechanic should not be a main part of the page, it could fit better as a trivia

Thanks for the feedback!

Regarding "Controversy" sections -- these are actually quite common on Wikipedia itself, along with "Reception" and "Criticism" sections (example: Famous Kanye West song). I absolutely agree that a wiki should be informational and maintain a neutral point of view, and I hope that presenting both sides of a controversial topic using factual statements (e.g. "Some players disagree on whether 1x-tilling or 2x-tilling is preferable.") can help a reader reach an informed decision on a topic.

The meta is a challenging question, and I hope more members of the community can provide input on this subject.

OHOL is a very unique game in that familiarity with the meta is almost required to play the game; yet Jason does not seem interested in expanding the tutorial or creating an instruction manual. The meta is the hardest thing for a new player to learn and contributes to the barrier of entry to this game, yet there is no place to find up-to-date recommendations in the game meta (forum guides go rapidly out of date, and there is no means to edit someone else's guide). Onetech.info is also superior to the wiki with regards to information regarding crafting recipes.

In my view, the wiki is the best place to present information about meta to new players. Even if most wiki's don't include meta, I do think OHOL's circumstances are unique enough to consider whether we might want to approach our wiki differently.

In the mean time, I think it's important to carefully present information in the most neutral way possible, and assess whether certain meta is broadly accepted or trivial. For instance, "Don't kill the last sheep" and "Say F for food" are virtually universally accepted meta. However, "Don't make reed skirts" is a more debatable subject and needs to be discussed with far more caution.

Personally, I would like to see the wiki include enough information for a new player to understand why they got stabbed for eating too many carrots, etc, because experiences like those are quite jarring for players who are fresh to the game. To do this, I think it helps to document, cite, and review positions from both sides of an argument (and also explain why youtube videos a player may have seen online are out of date -- so history is important in the wiki too).

Last edited by lychee (2019-05-18 13:48:37)

HimitsuGato · 2019-06-23 23:22:28

I have always wanted to write out scienc/engineering explanations on the more cumbersome recipes, like radios and diesel engines. Like, backgrounds on functionality and Jason's research inspiration. Do you think the wiki would benefit from something like this?

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-05-09 22:06:49

Improving the Wiki

#2 2019-05-09 22:36:56

Re: Improving the Wiki

#3 2019-05-10 07:11:31

Re: Improving the Wiki

#4 2019-05-10 10:04:09

Re: Improving the Wiki

#5 2019-05-10 10:58:56

Re: Improving the Wiki

#6 2019-05-10 11:54:20

Re: Improving the Wiki

#7 2019-05-10 16:03:22

Re: Improving the Wiki

#8 2019-05-10 16:26:11

Re: Improving the Wiki

#9 2019-05-10 17:54:36

Re: Improving the Wiki

#10 2019-05-10 18:03:20

Re: Improving the Wiki

#11 2019-05-11 04:32:14

Re: Improving the Wiki

#12 2019-05-11 05:17:14

Re: Improving the Wiki

#13 2019-05-11 07:14:58

Re: Improving the Wiki

#14 2019-05-12 16:33:53

Re: Improving the Wiki

#15 2019-05-18 06:28:40

Re: Improving the Wiki

#16 2019-05-18 06:50:08

Re: Improving the Wiki

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Re: Improving the Wiki

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