Buildings double plus good

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-22 00:24:03

I added a new bit of code to the heat map calculation that detects whether you're indoors or not (completely surrounded by walls and floors).

If you are indoors in a cold environment, it doubles the benefit of whatever other insulation you have around you, including the air itself. Think of this as reducing the wind chill factor. This new code does NOT affect how buildings work in a hot environment at all (they still keep the heat out a bit, just like before).

Being indoors without a fire in there used to have no effect in a cold environment. Now the building itself is beneficial, even without fire. Here are some rough timings with the new code:

Time to consume one food pip:

Naked outdoors: 7 seconds
Naked indoors: 13 seconds
Full fur outfit outdoors: 12 seconds
Full fur outfit indoors: 21 seconds

The way this code works is to ask, "How much benefit did your clothing (or air) give you, in terms of reducing the effect of your environment?" Then, if indoors, we double this benefit. So, if your clothing took you half way to perfect, being indoors takes you the rest of the way. If your clothing took you 1/3 of the way to perfect, being indoors takes you 2/3 of the way to perfect.

And beyond doubling the benefit of clothing, the building also has its own direct effect, cutting the effect of the environment in half before impacting the benefit of clothing.

This undercuts the value of fires indoors, and that was never working that great anyway (the old effect is still present, but minuscule compared to the new effect of being indoors), so I'm not too worried about it. Dancing around a big fire outdoors is still something you can do to warm up, of course, and something that will have huge benefits before you can build shelters.

Nothing was nerfed or made worse with this change. Buildings just make whatever was good way better than before, in cold environments.

I'm also making the heat map larger (12x12 instead of 8x8) so that bigger rooms will be seen by the code as indoors.

And yes, when you open the door, you are no longer indoors! It's a binary property (in or out), and that wind is quick.

Will go live with the update later this week.

lychee · 2019-05-22 00:30:30

Interesting. Looking forward to seeing how this pans out! Thanks for your hard work!

DestinyCall · 2019-05-22 00:39:51

Thank you Jason. Sounds like a great change.

Tarr · 2019-05-22 00:55:36

Thanks Jason, this is a really good change to make it so buildings aren't a negative thing in a village. Hoping to see more useful buildings around town when the update rolls out.

Amon · 2019-05-22 01:08:20

Damn oholians afraid of the draft like true slavs!

Anyway I hope a countering feature for deserts will be added? The cool shade should make a differance, otherwise its a good step in making houses more beneficial.

Spoonwood · 2019-05-22 01:19:27

Sounds like it has potential.

I don't know if it means it's better to have an indoor smithy, since an earlier diesel water pump might have more value than a building. But, even if the better strategy means you want to get the diesel water pump up asap, it does make a properly built, *large*, smithy more useful later on. So, I'm just raising a question about timing.

I'm much more confident that it can work well for bakeries.

Here's hoping that people build large and useful buildings that don't have space issues.

DestinyCall · 2019-05-22 01:34:11

Amon wrote:

Damn oholians afraid of the draft like true slavs!
Anyway I hope a countering feature for deserts will be added? The cool shade should make a differance, otherwise its a good step in making houses more beneficial.

Desert houses are already that way. A fully enclosed space in a hot biome is quite comfortable. Building in desert is a pain, but once you finish, it works perfectly.

Potjeh · 2019-05-22 01:46:20

jasonrohrer wrote:

And yes, when you open the door, you are no longer indoors! It's a binary property (in or out), and that wind is quick.

Why though? If you really want to incentivize buildings, make door that have been opened go to a "just opened" state for like 30 seconds where they still retain indoor heat, and only if they're left open longer the building loses heat.

futurebird · 2019-05-22 01:48:34

Can't wait to see what this results in!

Bob 101 · 2019-05-22 01:49:06

Nice change but temperature isn't my main issue. You still have to contend with very limited space and storage options.

The extra warmth is a good benefit but do we spend enough time indoors for it to be worth?

Bakers and Forgers usually only do things ins batches rather then constantly smith/bake all life.

Last edited by Bob 101 (2019-05-22 02:00:56)

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-22 02:04:49

Well, there is a few seconds of delay before player's heat maps are updated, so the door effect isn't instantaneous. Also, your body itself cools off slowly, even if the room gets suddenly cold. Point is, if you leave the door open long term, it will be just as cold as outdoors (unless you have a fire in there). As soon as you close it, it will warm up again (and your body will respond to the warmth gradually, just like it currently does).

If you generally keep the door closed, it will be very nice in there.

This matches intuition about doors, I think. It also matches my promises about the game (old man shown closing door in trailer, albeit in a building without floors).

I mean, if doors had no purpose, why would you make them?

RodneyC86 · 2019-05-22 02:11:25

Yay, this is one of the ideas I was so behind, insulation just being indoors. Thanks Jason

And spoonwood actually being nice ??? that hasn't happened in a while. Is he a Tsundere to Jason?

Bob 101 · 2019-05-22 02:49:35

Spoonwood wrote:

Sounds like it has potential.
I don't know if it means it's better to have an indoor smithy, since an earlier diesel water pump might have more value than a building. But, even if the better strategy means you want to get the diesel water pump up asap, it does make a properly built, *large*, smithy more useful later on. So, I'm just raising a question about timing.
I'm much more confident that it can work well for bakeries.
Here's hoping that people build large and useful buildings that don't have space issues.

This right here is a rare occasion.

RodneyC86 · 2019-05-22 02:52:25

This would certainly help increase fertility of fertile women around nurseries

Maybe sound sexist but I advocate women staying indoors near a fire all the time and housekeeping - when village is not having resource crisis.

Spoonwood · 2019-05-22 03:01:34

RodneyC86 wrote:

Yay, this is one of the ideas I was so behind, insulation just being indoors. Thanks Jason
And spoonwood actually being nice ??? that hasn't happened in a while. Is he a Tsundere to Jason?

Do you think that the pump overhaul happened that long ago?

Have you seen my interactions with Leonard or MultiLife?

RodneyC86 · 2019-05-22 03:14:27

Spoonwood wrote:

RodneyC86 wrote:
Yay, this is one of the ideas I was so behind, insulation just being indoors. Thanks Jason
And spoonwood actually being nice ??? that hasn't happened in a while. Is he a Tsundere to Jason?
Do you think that the pump overhaul happened that long ago?
Have you seen my interactions with Leonard or MultiLife?

Just a little jab, lighten up spoon.
That pump overhaul update happened before I joined the forum, so I have only seen you go nuts over the sword update.

You're okay I guess, bit boring and slightly mean, but you're alright

Dodge · 2019-05-22 04:26:11

Wouldn't it be better if it calculated the amount of walls or isolating material around you in percent in the heat map, and make the isolation according to that percent?

Instead of a whole building becoming useless if only one door is open.

pein · 2019-05-22 07:13:00

seems better i guess
gonna see when test it
also not sure about the wall "shadows"

one question: if the character is middle of the tile, why you use even numbers like 8x8 or 12x12? cause then it's not exactly middle, sure now with 12x12 is negligeble that you are middle or side of room, but still weird to me that it's offset

Booklat1 · 2019-05-22 17:30:06

couldnt you buff convection/nerf fires instead?

this change is good but do we need another system? what if entire villages are walled?

Dodge · 2019-05-22 17:42:46

Or can you make open doors count as wall but with 0% insulation, to avoid that binary 0-1, building is good - door is open so it's like there is no building at all.

Spoonwood · 2019-05-22 19:41:49

Booklat1 wrote:

couldnt you buff convection/nerf fires instead?

this change is good but do we need another system? what if entire villages are walled?

We can't floor underneath crops. So, there's no way to make a village 'inside' where 'inside' means everything is walled AND floored.

Booklat1 · 2019-05-22 20:02:01

Spoonwood wrote:

Booklat1 wrote:
couldnt you buff convection/nerf fires instead?

this change is good but do we need another system? what if entire villages are walled?
We can't floor underneath crops. So, there's no way to make a village 'inside' where 'inside' means everything is walled AND floored.

yeahh, I may have skipped over that

but tbh 8x8 to 12x12 change is the best thing here.

Jason, can we get a brush to let paint have more uses?

voy178 · 2019-05-22 23:20:47

Wouldn't it be better if the 12x12 was counted through a maximum of 144 tiles indoors in any pattern as long as it is within the same walled room? Squares are really boring. And too large buildings aren't pleasing to the eye either.

All the minmaxers will stab anyone that attempts to build smaller 6x6 now due to "inefficiency". Those people never want to have fun.

futurebird · 2019-05-22 23:57:09

5x6 bakeries are the best and now there is no reason to have a fire in there. Heaven!

wio · 2019-05-23 00:58:22

I think a big deterrent for buildings is that they're materially expensive. It costs a big stone rock for each wall and a log for each floor. You've got to have a really good reason if you want people to make that investment. It's also important to consider that people have to be outside for activities like farming.

If you want people to do it despite it being a big investment, I would suggest that you have certain objects deteriorate conditionally based on whether they are in a building or not.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-05-22 00:24:03

Buildings double plus good

#2 2019-05-22 00:30:30

Re: Buildings double plus good

#3 2019-05-22 00:39:51

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#4 2019-05-22 00:55:36

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#5 2019-05-22 01:08:20

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#6 2019-05-22 01:19:27

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#7 2019-05-22 01:34:11

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#8 2019-05-22 01:46:20

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