A change to the semantics of the KILL action

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-22 19:57:53

I think this should fix the problems we've been having with dancing griefers.

Took me several days of thinking, but it finally came to me this morning in bed.

I wanted a way to make killing someone more of a "sure thing" and not a "click-fest," but I also didn't want to undercut ranged weapons. If you click someone with the sword, and it results in an unstoppable "run-up-fast and kill" action, then the sword is just like a bow, so I didn't want to do that.

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … 4030945f90

With this change, you can still keep your distance from the sword (or any weapon), but it's impossible to dodge once you get in range.

So, for example, if there are guards at the gate who are trying to kill you with swords, you can't run through the gate and right past them, because that would involve you getting in range of their swords as you pass by them. (In the old code, they would have to click on you as you ran past, and probably miss. In the new code, the server remembers that they are trying to kill you, and auto-executes the attack as soon as you get in range.)

This also makes it much easier for a group to corner a lone griefer. It also increases the value of choke-points.

Guppy · 2019-05-22 20:00:08

Sounds great! Will Knifes&Bows work the same way?

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-22 20:09:54

Yes, all "weapons" work the same way (even snowballs).

So, for example, you can be inside a building with a bow, and "charge up" a shot by clicking on someone who is outside. You can't reach them currently, because the door is closed, but you get the angry face, and the server knows you want to.

If they come over and open the door, bam, you shoot them. You could even be AFK at that point, and it would still happen. And wow, this feels great in-game, and just works.

Essentially, you're telling the server, "I've decided to kill person X with this weapon that I'm holding right now. Please make that happen if it ever becomes possible in the future." So, if a door opens, it happens. If you walk closer, it happens. If they cross your path, it happens.

You cancel this by putting your weapon away, picking something else up, targeting someone else, etc.

On the other side of the coin, if you see someone coming toward you with a weapon and an angry face...

Also, it's possible to bluff with the /ANGRY emot, and scare someone away.

I'm also going to add a SHIFT-key click necessary to actually do this (hold shift and click them). This will prevent the whole accidental killing thing while trying to set down a weapon.

BladeWoods · 2019-05-22 20:17:28

Does trying to feed someone work the same way?

Dodge · 2019-05-22 20:18:41

Sounds good on paper, now to see in practice.

Does the target know that they are targeted?

Like a fear emote or something, since the killer would look at him while holding the weapon, or even look him straight in the eyes.

So right click will be for dropping only?

If yes, nice.

Last edited by Dodge (2019-05-22 20:19:59)

Averest · 2019-05-22 20:23:29

Sounds like an improvement. My click skills are terrible. Essentially this is the same as taking an Attack of Opportunity like in D&D which makes a whole lot of sense. Yes, I am a huge nerd. The angry face is a good heads up.

Twisted · 2019-05-22 20:32:56

This sounds great, much better than the current clicky dancefest. Thanks Jason!

Oblong · 2019-05-22 20:36:43

Although this change is nice for those who are bad at targeting....

This is a horrible change for people who have bad connection and can’t help it.

I’ve had people stab me from 7 tiles away while being chased. I am a constant target for griefers because on their screen I am seen as idle when I’m really running around farming.

This is just going to make me avoid people with an angry face like the plague.

Guppy · 2019-05-22 21:19:34

Oblong wrote:

Although this change is nice for those who are bad at targeting....
This is a horrible change for people who have bad connection and can’t help it.
I’ve had people stab me from 7 tiles away while being chased. I am a constant target for griefers because on their screen I am seen as idle when I’m really running around farming.
This is just going to make me avoid people with an angry face like the plague.

I have no idea how that stuff could be taken into account with ANY change to the system though

futurebird · 2019-05-22 22:22:10

I really like the /angry face change. It's really helpful and will make things more realistic.

I often wish I could put on an emotion for a bit longer without using a mod. something like /very sad so I could stay sad for a bit if something really bad happens.

Amon · 2019-05-22 22:43:24

Hmm, good change for the sword! Will definitely help out reducing the skill gap that prevents some people from taking action. Though i'd almost consider the sword clickfest a dance!

what happens when two people attack eachother?

However i'm not so sure it should work the same with bows, the bow is a long range weapon and our zoomed in vision is very short. The bow should be harder to kill people with to offset the range.

Love the angry emote, removes uncertianty.

lychee · 2019-05-22 22:45:11

I think this update makes the bow incredibly (over)-powered.

Perhaps there should be some RNG chance of missing?

As it is, bows basically become the most powerful weapon in the game.

futurebird · 2019-05-22 22:49:43

The bow has always been the most powerful since the wounds are really hard to treat. I think bow wounds should take a bit longer to be fatal. You have to be totally focused to pull off the pad, hot knife (WHERE IS THE KNIFE??), sew. move. I've failed 3 times. The first time I didn't know what I was doing the other two times the person kept moving around and it was impossible.

Another way to nerf the bow a little would be if you could use a hatchet or flint to remove the string with the wood turning to kindling.

Cookie · 2019-05-22 23:50:55

Oh, so that's how I managed to stab that running griefer today. They even said "how did you get me". From this short experience, I think it's a good change.

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-05-22 23:53:52

Oi, thank you for not doing the player moving very fast to stab. This way seems much smoother

Bob 101 · 2019-05-23 02:24:41

Interesting so town bouncers can a thing now.

But this also enhances tree sniping...

Last edited by Bob 101 (2019-05-23 02:29:57)

pein · 2019-05-23 05:14:37

im worried hat we get no defence then
maybe if you change direction, it should cancel their preload attack, like if you turn back they time out in 5 sec

testo · 2019-05-23 06:08:51

This is actually bad news for old players, anyone can kill with 100% efficiency now. Goodbye duels, goodbye asking for help and showing to others that you are actually being attacked for no reason, while the little kid on the other side just decided you gotta die becuase you didn´t let him put a building where he wanted. Also goodbye to friendly encounters in the wild, I just aim you and you never get to dodge my bow/knife. This will fix Eve griefers, but needs a balance on pads, they are just too easy to get dirty while nobody is watching. This will also highlight the benefits of zoom mod btw.

As an afterthough I think clean pads should never be allowed to be put on the ground on first place, griefing them is way easier than making them.
This is a mayor change in village dynamics btw. I don´t like it but it could *just* turn to be good.

Guppy · 2019-05-23 08:01:21

pein wrote:

im worried hat we get no defence then
maybe if you change direction, it should cancel their preload attack, like if you turn back they time out in 5 sec

Or make the "charge" only last for 5 seconds or so, this way, people cant just rightlick you and then go afk

MrsDuckGirl · 2019-05-23 10:46:28

Today, we welcomed an Eve and her daughter to our town. One of our member wanted to get rid of them, he killed the Eve, I picked up the baby and he stabbed her while she was in my arms (killing action started before I pick the girl up). That shouldn't happen. I want a chance to save kids, moreover when we all except one agree to welcome foreigners.

hmrka · 2019-05-23 10:58:13

MrsDuckGirl wrote:

Today, we welcomed an Eve and her daughter to our town. One of our member wanted to get rid of them, he killed the Eve, I picked up the baby and he stabbed her while she was in my arms (killing action started before I pick the girl up). That shouldn't happen. I want a chance to save kids, moreover when we all except one agree to welcome foreigners.

Should've killed the guy right after he stabbed eve.

Tarr · 2019-05-23 11:10:11

Seems a little silly but at least maybe new players won't sit around and let one guy stab everyone.

Melee combat basically devolves into a game of who is smart enough to go get a snowball first while ranged combat is basically just don't ever get near another armed bow user.

Going to miss the old bow and snowballs in general as it always felt good to use in comparison to knives/swords.

Wuatduhf · 2019-05-23 11:23:06

This is a good first step in terms of fixing the server-side issues that really make PvP problematic. It's a little sad to see the complexities of dodging attacks going away, but there wasn't many other good ways to get around it.

The next step that we're going to need is ways to 'counter' stab charges. This still gives huge advantages to the "first striker" in sword combat, who could run in and stab, and if they can avoid getting charged within 10 seconds, they can run off before charging in again.

I still would like to see the addition of Batons being brought in for non-lethal handling of griefers/murderers, and would help balance the game in terms of killing being the only solution to handle players you "don't like". On top of that, with killing strikes being managed by the server, this opens up gameplay to oppose those server-side attacks, such as items that would act like shields to ward off such attacks.

Much in the same way the initial Language update was good, this change alone is an incomplete solution that will be even better if expanded on.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-05-22 19:57:53

A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#2 2019-05-22 20:00:08

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#3 2019-05-22 20:09:54

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#4 2019-05-22 20:17:28

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#5 2019-05-22 20:18:41

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#6 2019-05-22 20:23:29

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#7 2019-05-22 20:32:56

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#8 2019-05-22 20:36:43

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#9 2019-05-22 21:19:34

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#10 2019-05-22 22:22:10

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#11 2019-05-22 22:43:24

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#12 2019-05-22 22:45:11

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#13 2019-05-22 22:49:43

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#14 2019-05-22 23:50:55

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#15 2019-05-22 23:53:52

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#16 2019-05-23 02:24:41

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#17 2019-05-23 05:14:37

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#18 2019-05-23 06:08:51

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#19 2019-05-23 08:01:21

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#20 2019-05-23 10:46:28

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#21 2019-05-23 10:58:13

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#22 2019-05-23 11:10:11

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

#23 2019-05-23 11:23:06

Re: A change to the semantics of the KILL action

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