Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-23 19:24:40

See the suggestion here, and my comment where I flesh out how I envision the change would function:

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/272

This is pretty easy to do server-side, I think. What do you all think of this idea?

lychee · 2019-05-23 19:34:57

I’m generally happy with the idea; makes maintaining yum a lot easier.

Wuatduhf · 2019-05-23 19:39:17

We should bear in mind that permanently guaranteeing the Yum chain to never reset means that females in food-diverse towns will always be more likely to have kids (due to the higher chance of eating different types of food items). If that's another desired interaction by changing Yum, then this should be okay.

Is it possible that eating the same food, rather than resetting the Yum chain, or leaving it where it is, decreases the Yum chain by 1?

Dodge · 2019-05-23 19:42:48

Good idea.

Luniatji · 2019-05-23 19:43:15

Or that your Yum chain by getting kids is locked on a number, say 10? You can always eat more than that, but you won't get a larger chance to get babies?

To even it out that Eve towns and large, old cities have the same chance?

Whatever · 2019-05-23 19:54:25

similar idea:

A yum chain that cannot be broken but decays,
for example you eat a berry, after 15 min you lose 1 yum bonus and can eat a berry again in order to get it back.

age 10: berry +0 bonus (yum becomes x1)
age 14: banana +1 bonus (yum becomes x2)
age 20: carrot +2 bonus (yum becomes x3)
age 22: berry +0 bonus (yum remains x3)
age 25: -1 yum (lost berry) (yum remains x2)
age 27: berry +2 bonus (yum remains x3)

additional it would be nice if different foods had different yum bonuses
an ice cream for example could give +3 yum but only +2 food

Last edited by Whatever (2019-05-23 19:56:44)

DestinyCall · 2019-05-23 19:54:26

I like this idea. I think it would be nice to see more food diversity in the average village.

Guppy · 2019-05-23 20:14:59

I like it! But the problems brought up here ( guaranteed yum for developed villages and therefore more babies )should be adressed before release

wondible · 2019-05-23 20:26:55

Whatever wrote:

A yum chain that cannot be broken but decays,

I like this from a realism perspective, but Jason has shown clear preference for mechanics that are easy to explain and understand. I could see people asking why their yum sometimes goes down and sometimes goes up more, and adding a bunch of UI to show your active yum foods is probably off the table.

Maybe just a time decay would make it slightly more realistic, and the goes down every X minutes part wouldn't be too hard to understand.

---

Generally I like the idea, could reduce the berry/berry-in-bowl gaming a bit, and make it less of a bummer if you have to break a chain.

Playing on a private server with good clothing and a variety of foods available has been amazing, perhaps if yum wasn't as fragile there would be more incentive to develop more foods.

Booklat1 · 2019-05-23 20:29:41

great idea, but you should remove the server +2 bonus

TheNoddude · 2019-05-23 20:46:41

I like it, makes yum less stressful.

futurebird · 2019-05-23 21:07:37

I love this idea!

BladeWoods · 2019-05-23 21:12:38

I like it, not sure if it makes the game easier or harder since you can't break but also can't replay chains anymore, but I like the suggestion.

Tarr · 2019-05-23 21:19:38

BladeWoods wrote:

I like it, not sure if it makes the game easier or harder since you can't break but also can't replay chains anymore, but I like the suggestion.

Easier if you care to dress yourself. I think last time the math was done you need like 15 different foods to survive your lifetime if you actually care to dress yourself properly which means if you aren't a damned nudist you can focus on some aspect of work and just dip out whenever you need a yum food or you can stick to the classic mutton pies and what not.

It might not make bad foods more efficient but it makes to easier to try to hit a reasonable yum chain without losing your whole fertility bonus because you're out of yummables.

Twisted · 2019-05-23 21:36:21

I love this suggestion, it makes yum easier to explain while also less gamey to use.

Amon · 2019-05-23 21:55:46

I like the new idea as is, no need to make it more complex. ^^

wondible · 2019-05-23 22:01:27

Booklat1 wrote:

great idea, but you should remove the server +2 bonus

Interesting. Perhaps on different updates so we can observe the independent effects.

pein · 2019-05-23 22:28:35

yeah, food generally not an issue, sometimes there is no way to repair compost cycle, the players who want to make compost, face that they cant, cause the carrots were eaten and no seeds in vicinity, or no water in a long distance to farm anything
other than that, is mostly the lazy attitude, which needs to be punished anyway

but when it works, we got just too much pies to ever get eaten
so food decay wouldn't be a bad idea

also the server side bonus on food can be nerfed, even if not right away from +2 to 0 but at least to +1 at first
berries are decent right now, and popcron is viable, but without the bonus, multi bite foods take a hit
popcorn, stew

lets just go back to the original issue: people arent motivated to eat a variety of foods, so one will be always easier to produce (berries)
and one will be always best to produce to preserve resources (mutton pie or milk)

so hwo to motivate people to eat a variety of food?
reward and punish
i wasn't the only one but my suggestion was the system from Stronghold Crusader:
in there you control ratios, from quarter to half, full, extra or double, providing extra bonus on morale, allowing to get more taxes
the options are apple, cheese, bread and meat
apple and cheese can be made on most maps, the only difference is that cows got more combat uses, their hides and dead carcasses provides strategic value
bread is a processed food there , made of grain using mills, and bakeries
meat is often missing from the map, but can be bought on market

a general strategy is to lower ratios, produce one type of food like cheese, ask for apple from allies and buy grain, or buy bread. meat ofc need to be bought
the bonus got from a half ratio 4 variety is bigger than having 1 or 2 food produced constantly and can be kept up better on lower ratio
wasn't an original idea and people suggested similar things

in this game, berries became main food after the buff on refill, from 1 hour to 10 min (2 till goes brown and can be fixed)
the issue with this is, that people don't require iron at all, doesn't motivate people to go and find iron, they rely on berries, and even with all food options, still the easiest way to produce some food
nerfing berries would make the game harder for newbees, and would only punish the farmers
actually already punish farmers, cause the compost they make gets used up for less food than better foods like stew or pies
also increasing berries wont increase food, as newbees expect it, it only increases the amount of work with it but the profit stays the same
or even worse cause the organization gets harder

jasons version of this was yum, a chain of foods that you got eating unique foods
this rewards people who make effort eatign different stuff

the issues are:
no top cap: in stronghold was a viable strategy to increase variety but generally came with the decrease of ratios, so it wont deplete too fast and you don't have to buy meat all the time
also the average and maximum amount of gold gained on it was somewhat predefined
yeah you could get on average more gold, but if you wanted to gain time and workers too, and not an annoying micromanagement, then you had to compromise
top capping yum would mean that variety matters in a significant level
you do X amount of foods for everyone, not 1 of each for some
also the issue of yummers who spend a significant time on finding unique food not working, not helping others
it's a selfish minigame, mostly a meme

the other issue is the annoyance of remembering each and every thing on the chain, it's just a no go for most of us
doesn't mean that we don't care, but if the city provides 4-5 foods, and we cant increase it to 6-7, then we don't make a few examples of it just for the sake of yum, we chain multiple times the same thing
so the "demo" foods are a problem, to make 1-2 fish, shrimp or goose, green beans, raw corn - you just make it for yourself wasting resources and no one else benefits

the other issue is raw foods which doesn't make sense planting and maintaining cause of high soil, water or iron usage or just the time it requires
godo example is goose, i spent a life breeding goose and decaping them
they are annoying to collect, expensive to store, animation takes time so you need multiple stumps to do it fast
stumps decay or got dug up so you need to find other stumps or cut new trees, overall is a lot of time wasted for barely any bonus from omeletee
now that it keeps dung, it's ok, but still a job with less reward than others

so this change is good
but still wont solve city wide yum

your item survey could be used maybe to show foods in the city, even better a granary which stores food and provides boost for the nearby people? this would require setting ranges, but if there is only one granary per spring/city/outpost then might work

RodneyC86 · 2019-05-23 23:34:38

As a person who sets out to explore alone and forage wild foods 90 percent of the I'm born a guy, I am very concerned how this will impact my game. Gonna miss the repeated 6x chains with foraged foods

Amon · 2019-05-24 00:08:03

RodneyC86 wrote:

As a person who sets out to explore alone and forage wild foods 90 percent of the I'm born a guy, I am very concerned how this will impact my game. Gonna miss the repeated 6x chains with foraged foods

With this change implemented, your play will be improved, except this time you won't be forced to look for a specific food and you chain won'r break if eating burdock twice.

Spoonwood · 2019-05-24 00:32:02

I'm indifferent to the change. I don't think people would mind it, but it wouldn't motivate more diversity of foods in a village as much as the current system motivates a diversity of foods in a village in my opinion.

Tarr wrote:

BladeWoods wrote:
I like it, not sure if it makes the game easier or harder since you can't break but also can't replay chains anymore, but I like the suggestion.
Easier if you care to dress yourself. I think last time the math was done you need like 15 different foods to survive your lifetime if you actually care to dress yourself properly which means if you aren't a damned nudist you can focus on some aspect of work and just dip out whenever you need a yum food or you can stick to the classic mutton pies and what not.
It might not make bad foods more efficient but it makes to easier to try to hit a reasonable yum chain without losing your whole fertility bonus because you're out of yummables.

I think it's been more like +16 or +17 wearing wooden shoes, a bowler hat, a button down shirt, trousers, and a backpack when starting from age 0 for me the last few games. If I end up road building in desert it might reach the twenties.

But, these numbers will also change now due to the new building effects.

miskas · 2019-05-24 00:35:34

At last, an incentive to trade with other towns rather than kill them.

testo · 2019-05-24 00:52:29

Dislike the idea, this won't help food diversity as it stands and will force a nerf on food:

Berry in bowl, shuckle corn, pop corn, carrot, green beans, rabbit, +7 non mutton pies, stew, bean burrito hits 14 yum without wild food (berry, carrot, root, onion, cactus, banana +6). Note that you don´t even need iron for this, and the farming is pretty light.

Wich means you can basically live a life on one food chain if you have some clothing and you take a 10 min walk collecting stuff from outside the town.

This is too good to be true and there will be a nerf somewhere, better to get it clear from the start.

Jk Howling · 2019-05-24 01:00:46

I like the idea. A simple change that makes the current system a bit more effective.

I do hope people are noticing that with the outlined idea, the bonus pips aren't static- you don't keep your extra pips with repeat foods, you only get the extra pips when you continue yumming. This does effect early players chaining repeatedly on wild foods, as once you hit the 5x yum, you're forced to find a new food to regain your bonus pips. You can't simply cycle through them again.

I was slightly confused as to whether or not the bonus pips would carry through but rereading his example, he outlined that it doesn't.

berry +0 bonus (yum becomes x1)
banana +1 bonus (yum becomes x2)
carrot +2 bonus (yum becomes x3)
berry !!+0 bonus!! (yum remains x3)
berry !!+0 bonus!! (yum remains x3)

Last edited by Jk Howling (2019-05-24 01:03:37)

RodneyC86 · 2019-05-24 01:20:18

Amon wrote:

RodneyC86 wrote:
As a person who sets out to explore alone and forage wild foods 90 percent of the I'm born a guy, I am very concerned how this will impact my game. Gonna miss the repeated 6x chains with foraged foods

With this change implemented, your play will be improved, except this time you won't be forced to look for a specific food and you chain won'r break if eating burdock twice.

Yeah it doesn't break the chain but I can't rechain. When in looking for iron and milkwedj I almost never need to take anything from the village except the odd mutton pie

I'm the kind of player who's is raised to 3 years old then fire and forget to the village

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-05-23 19:24:40

Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#2 2019-05-23 19:34:57

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#3 2019-05-23 19:39:17

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#4 2019-05-23 19:42:48

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#5 2019-05-23 19:43:15

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#6 2019-05-23 19:54:25

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#7 2019-05-23 19:54:26

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#8 2019-05-23 20:14:59

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#9 2019-05-23 20:26:55

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#10 2019-05-23 20:29:41

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#11 2019-05-23 20:46:41

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#12 2019-05-23 21:07:37

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#13 2019-05-23 21:12:38

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#14 2019-05-23 21:19:38

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#15 2019-05-23 21:36:21

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#16 2019-05-23 21:55:46

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#17 2019-05-23 22:01:27

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#18 2019-05-23 22:28:35

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#19 2019-05-23 23:34:38

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#20 2019-05-24 00:08:03

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#21 2019-05-24 00:32:02

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#22 2019-05-24 00:35:34

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#23 2019-05-24 00:52:29

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#24 2019-05-24 01:00:46

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

#25 2019-05-24 01:20:18

Re: Interesting suggestion for a change to YUM chains

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