STOTRAGE UPDATE

futurebird · 2019-05-29 15:26:37

I'm happy to make bread and often do, but it's tedious to move bowls of wheat around and you can't put a bowl of flour in a cart. It would be much nicer to bring two crocks out to the piles of wheat. Mash them in to flour and put it in the crocks then take the crocks back to the bakery where they would not take up so much space on the flour. I want wheat to work more like water buckets.

futurebird · 2019-05-29 15:28:39

One more: make copper and zince bars stack! So manly things don't stack that should and it makes the smith look like a mess. Stack copper ore, stack copper, stack pipes ... more stacking is needed. My favorite update of all time was when you made carrots stack. That's why it's my icon. That change made the game so much better and I just want more things along those lines!

RodneyC86 · 2019-05-29 15:28:55

FeignedSanity wrote:

RodneyC86 wrote:
...
I dont think making 8 breads every time I need to make a boxful or cartfuk of baskets is a good tradeoff , people need the plates for pies for one thing, a vastly superior food.
And I don't need a resident bread muncher to clear the plates. His job is to be naked just outside the kitchen to continuously much down on bread. Totally weird shit
Why not? Just make more plates if you're in such low supply. Baskets last for 10 hours. The bread you would make from those baskets wouldn't last nearly as long, I promise you. I don't get why it'd be a bad trade off. If your goal is to only make more baskets, then the bread is basically free food at that point. Why complain about free food? Because it takes up plates? That's a silly reason IMO.
Also, you don't need a "resident bread muncher" any more than you need a resident berry muncher. You just eat it. Bread is usually the first thing I always eat and it usually disappears pretty quickly; and I certainly don't dedicate my life to just sitting outside the bakery munching bread all day, I assure you.

That's just a little joke. While making more plates is certainly an option, you have to lay bread all over the place and that seems...off? A dining table that can hold 6 plates would be cool

Ultimately I think the beef here is mainly bread not being stackable. They fill up the kitchen floor and makes pie making more difficult
If bread is more compact perhaps wheat wouldn't be a big issue

Last edited by RodneyC86 (2019-05-29 15:29:46)

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-29 15:30:42

I would just like to point out that you don't NEED to turn every single grain pile into bread, nor am I suggesting that. I'm only referring to the extra grain left over when the rest has been turned into pies. If you add grain storage to stockpile a ton of grain until you have stuff ready for pies, then you'll make bread a niche food.

I think most of the problems with grain just stem from ignorance about bread.

Last edited by FeignedSanity (2019-05-29 15:31:28)

Dodge · 2019-05-29 15:31:15

Issue with baskets in box is you have to remove the basket then remove the item from the basket and finally put the basket back in the box.

So having storage that you couldnt put baskets in but would have 6-8-10-12+ slots would be much better, dont need a 100 slot container.

It could even be specific storage for different items, like a pie stand, barrels to put corn, tomatoes, peppers etc. A tool box to put all the small mechanical pieces like fuel nozzle, piston, steel valve etc.

A closet to put clothes in or even a hat hanger specifically for hats.

etc...

You get the idea.

It would help with organization since you would now what type of object is where.

Last edited by Dodge (2019-05-29 15:32:02)

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-29 15:33:44

RodneyC86 wrote:

That's just a little joke. While making more plates is certainly an option, you have to lay bread all over the place and that seems...off? A dining table that can hold 6 plates would be cool
Ultimately I think the beef here is mainly bread not being stackable. They fill up the kitchen floor and makes pie making more difficult
If bread is more compact perhaps wheat wouldn't be a big issue

Well I'm sure that there are a few people who legitimately think that, but I get what you're saying. Honestly, I don't think bread would last long enough to warrant storing it (provided people eat it before tearing into the pies and stew). But I wouldn't be opposed to "stacking" bread in some manner.

RodneyC86 · 2019-05-29 15:34:39

FeignedSanity wrote:

I would just like to point out that you don't NEED to turn every single grain pile into bread, nor am I suggesting that. I'm only referring to the extra grain left over when the rest has been turned into pies. If you add grain storage to stockpile a ton of grain until you have stuff ready for pies, then you'll make bread a niche food.
I think most of the problems with grain just stem from ignorance about bread.

No, the issue is that none of the objects starting from the wheat right till the final product is stackable. It's a mess!

But we have digressed. We need better storage options, in whatever way that can help.

Heck I'd even take an option to use a single stack of straw or reed bundle to reinforce baskets that are going floppy

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-29 15:34:46

First of all, regarding decay, that's after 10 hours, unless something is broken. 10 hours is 40 generations.

Regarding "exploding," are you talking about at the 10 hour mark?

And yeah, it does sound like there could be some other, side-effect-free way of making reeds for baskets.

Almost all of the decay update stuff was put in place before Eve spreading, like a long long time ago. The reasons for that update were good back then (people were respawning close together, and life was boring once everything was done). Those reasons are mostly gone now.

Booklat1 · 2019-05-29 15:35:57

RodneyC86 wrote:

Ultimately I think the beef here is mainly bread not being stackable. They fill up the kitchen floor and makes pie making more difficult
If bread is more compact perhaps wheat wouldn't be a big issue

Dining table for all foods, sacks for grain, barrels, all this could be useful and fun to make ingame without breaking it.

Like seriously few adjustments on unstackable items and specialized storage would do SO MUCH for the game.
Mass storage is by no means needed nor is making everything stackable, but let us build stuff to hold our items

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-29 15:37:11

Dodge wrote:

Issue with baskets in box is you have to remove the basket then remove the item from the basket and finally put the basket back in the box.
So having storage that you couldnt put baskets in but would have 6-8-10-12+ slots would be much better, dont need a 100 slot container.
It could even be specific storage for different items, like a pie stand, barrels to put corn, tomatoes, peppers etc. A tool box to put all the small mechanical pieces like fuel nozzle, piston, steel valve etc.
A closet to put clothes in or even a hat hanger specifically for hats.
etc...
You get the idea.
It would help with organization since you would now what type of object is where.

I feel like specific storage would just add needless complexity and clutter. I think universal storage is the better alternative. I get that it's a couple extra clicks to take a basket out before you can get what you want....but it's a couple of clicks.

futurebird · 2019-05-29 15:37:12

It'd be nice if pies stacked like iron. A lot of time people use baskets for pies just to save space. That seems off. Why can't we just stack pies on the ground in sets of 6 like iron bars?

A closet would be nice too. Though I think it may be more difficult to store multiple items.

Making rabbits and rabbit meat stack like iron would also help and if we could stack mutton and pork that would be great too.

Booklat1 · 2019-05-29 15:39:00

Jason, decay was the best thing you did to this game. Stuff lasting forever is what makes endgame so unsatisfying. Towns full of carts with bags are 0 fun to play at, lives become 100% worthless when you have it all

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-29 15:41:00

jasonrohrer wrote:

First of all, regarding decay, that's after 10 hours, unless something is broken. 10 hours is 40 generations.
Regarding "exploding," are you talking about at the 10 hour mark?
And yeah, it does sound like there could be some other, side-effect-free way of making reeds for baskets.
Almost all of the decay update stuff was put in place before Eve spreading, like a long long time ago. The reasons for that update were good back then (people were respawning close together, and life was boring once everything was done). Those reasons are mostly gone now.

Yes. At the ten hour mark, baskets explode some of their contents. In another half hour, they jettison the rest. This is very annoying for something that's meant to be stored. But I think them breaking is good for the economy (use for extra straw from pies, after you have a few compost). But I think they should be breaking on use, not after a time limit (as explained in the suggestion).

Last edited by FeignedSanity (2019-05-29 15:41:13)

Booklat1 · 2019-05-29 15:41:03

FeignedSanity wrote:

Dodge wrote:
Issue with baskets in box is you have to remove the basket then remove the item from the basket and finally put the basket back in the box.
So having storage that you couldnt put baskets in but would have 6-8-10-12+ slots would be much better, dont need a 100 slot container.
It could even be specific storage for different items, like a pie stand, barrels to put corn, tomatoes, peppers etc. A tool box to put all the small mechanical pieces like fuel nozzle, piston, steel valve etc.
A closet to put clothes in or even a hat hanger specifically for hats.
etc...
You get the idea.
It would help with organization since you would now what type of object is where.
I feel like specific storage would just add needless complexity and clutter. I think universal storage is the better alternative. I get that it's a couple extra clicks to take a basket out before you can get what you want....but it's a couple of clicks.

I disagree enormously. A dining table adds to aesthetics and actually functions as a food display, allowing people to see those items as food.

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-29 15:45:35

Booklat1 wrote:

FeignedSanity wrote:
Dodge wrote:
...
...
I disagree enormously. A dining table adds to aesthetics and actually functions as a food display, allowing people to see those items as food.

I suppose it might very well be more aesthetically pleasing, but just seems unnecessary. Also, I don't think people need help seeing stuff as food. I don't see very many times where someone would go "I guess that apple isn't food, because it's not in the pantry or on the dining table". Food is food no matter where it is stored?

I get the aesthetic thing, but aside from that?...eh.

Last edited by FeignedSanity (2019-05-29 15:45:54)

Dodge · 2019-05-29 15:46:37

FeignedSanity wrote:

Dodge wrote:
Issue with baskets in box is you have to remove the basket then remove the item from the basket and finally put the basket back in the box.
So having storage that you couldnt put baskets in but would have 6-8-10-12+ slots would be much better, dont need a 100 slot container.
It could even be specific storage for different items, like a pie stand, barrels to put corn, tomatoes, peppers etc. A tool box to put all the small mechanical pieces like fuel nozzle, piston, steel valve etc.
A closet to put clothes in or even a hat hanger specifically for hats.
etc...
You get the idea.
It would help with organization since you would now what type of object is where.
I feel like specific storage would just add needless complexity and clutter. I think universal storage is the better alternative. I get that it's a couple extra clicks to take a basket out before you can get what you want....but it's a couple of clicks.

Universal generic storage is boring, dont you want to see a village with more diversity of items, houses with beds, chairs, closet.

A kitchen with a table, pie stand etc

Also how does it add clutter since it can store items?

Booklat1 · 2019-05-29 15:51:00

FeignedSanity wrote:

Booklat1 wrote:
FeignedSanity wrote:
...
I disagree enormously. A dining table adds to aesthetics and actually functions as a food display, allowing people to see those items as food.
I suppose it might very well be more aesthetically pleasing, but just seems unnecessary. Also, I don't think people need help seeing stuff as food. I don't see very many times where someone would go "I guess that apple isn't food, because it's not in the pantry or on the dining table". Food is food no matter where it is stored?
I get the aesthetic thing, but aside from that?...eh.

Thats where you're actually incorrect. Try spamming milk one life and watch closely for people drinking it. Or even stew, check how many different people eat it.

New players learn berries and can easily see pies and carrots are edible. Bowl foods? Not so much.

OminousBladeBlank · 2019-05-29 15:51:45

plox

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-29 15:54:08

Dodge wrote:

Universal generic storage is boring, dont you want to see a village with more diversity of items, houses with beds, chairs, closet.
A kitchen with a table, pie stand etc
Also how does it add clutter since it can store items?

Sure, I wouldn't mind seeing beds and chairs (provided that they actually have a use). If they're just there for looks, you've got the wrong address. Also, these wouldn't count as storage.

If we're talking about specific storage (toolboxes for machine parts, a pantry for food); it would add clutter in the sense that you couldn't store "clothes in the pantry" for example. If you want to store a couple of clothes, maybe some food, and a tool or two, you'd have to make it's own special container. Unless you had enough to completely fill up all the special containers, you'd be wasting space. I figure you get what I'm saying without having to spell it out completely.

RodneyC86 · 2019-05-29 15:55:08

FeignedSanity wrote:

Booklat1 wrote:
FeignedSanity wrote:
...
I disagree enormously. A dining table adds to aesthetics and actually functions as a food display, allowing people to see those items as food.
I suppose it might very well be more aesthetically pleasing, but just seems unnecessary. Also, I don't think people need help seeing stuff as food. I don't see very many times where someone would go "I guess that apple isn't food, because it's not in the pantry or on the dining table". Food is food no matter where it is stored?
I get the aesthetic thing, but aside from that?...eh.

it makes the game more noob friendly if there are more purpose built storage. A newbie would instinctively know that food can be found on a dining table next to the oven. Then the newbie gets to learn examples of food you can make.

Pies in wooden boxes are a bit weird, and honestly without mousing over it, taking a basket out, and then inspecting it. you would NOT guess they are pies. I used to think they were some kind of sandal (i know, i;m not the brightest light bulb in the universe). Newbies WILL struggle with this, as I did, and currently my brother too lol

Part of good design is that the objects imply their function well, not necessarily needing to spell it out and hold our hands

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-29 15:57:49

Booklat1 wrote:

FeignedSanity wrote:
...

Thats where you're actually incorrect. Try spamming milk one life and watch closely for people drinking it. Or even stew, check how many different people eat it.

New players learn berries and can easily see pies and carrots are edible. Bowl foods? Not so much.

I guess from a new player's perspective, I understand that. But wouldn't this simply be a matter of education? And wouldn't they have to learn that "food is in the pantry" just as much as they would need to learn "you can drink milk". I guess it would be easier to explain, but I personally don't feel it's complicated enough to warrant easier explanation. But I might be being overly optimistic.

Dodge · 2019-05-29 16:00:47

FeignedSanity wrote:

Dodge wrote:
Universal generic storage is boring, dont you want to see a village with more diversity of items, houses with beds, chairs, closet.
A kitchen with a table, pie stand etc
Also how does it add clutter since it can store items?
Sure, I wouldn't mind seeing beds and chairs (provided that they actually have a use). If they're just there for looks, you've got the wrong address. Also, these wouldn't count as storage.
If we're talking about specific storage (toolboxes for machine parts, a pantry for food); it would add clutter in the sense that you couldn't store "clothes in the pantry" for example. If you want to store a couple of clothes, maybe some food, and a tool or two, you'd have to make it's own special container. Unless you had enough to completely fill up all the special containers, you'd be wasting space. I figure you get what I'm saying without having to spell it out completely.

Yeah just mix everything in the same container that's going to be practical.

"Where is that shoe? It's right next to the pie, between the raw mutton and the chisel."

It would be a huge waste of time to look for a specific object.

"In which container is the rope? I dont know but good luck going trough all the objects in the 15 containers of the village."

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-29 16:02:57

RodneyC86 wrote:

FeignedSanity wrote:
...
it makes the game more noob friendly if there are more purpose built storage. A newbie would instinctively know that food can be found on a dining table next to the oven. Then the newbie gets to learn examples of food you can make.
Pies in wooden boxes are a bit weird, and honestly without mousing over it, taking a basket out, and then inspecting it. you would NOT guess they are pies. I used to think they were some kind of sandal (i know, i;m not the brightest light bulb in the universe). Newbies WILL struggle with this, as I did, and currently my brother too lol
Part of good design is that the objects imply their function well, not necessarily needing to spell it out and hold our hands

Yeah, I commented a bit on this in an earlier post. It makes sense from this perspective. But you'd need the player to learn anyway. Wouldn't specific containers still be kind of spelling it out? But I suppose at that point, it's an intrinsic game mechanic.

I do see the value in this now, but I don't think it outweighs the benefit of having a container you can just store anything in. That is where we'll have to agree to disagree.

Don Holm · 2019-05-29 16:06:59

Everyone add anything you have in mind for the storage issues in this issue topic created by jason today:

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeD … -496991664

I've added what's on my mind, and if there is more suggestions please comment and let jason know!

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-29 16:07:42

Dodge wrote:

FeignedSanity wrote:
....
Yeah just mix everything in the same container that's going to be practical.
"Where is that shoe? It's right next to the pie, between the raw mutton and the chisel."
It would be a huge waste of time to look for a specific object.
"In which container is the rope? I dont know but good luck going trough all the objects in the 15 containers of the village."

Hmmm, you make a good point. I do like being able to store anything in a chest without seemingly arbitrary limits, but what you're saying makes a lot of sense. I guess the question at that point would be what gets it's own special container and what doesn't. Alright, I'm convinced. Thank you for the explanation.

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