Thoughts on baskets

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-29 23:05:33

So, there's another two hours tacked onto the decay timer. This is really just kicking the can even further down the field. I've been reluctant to use baskets for storage, but I guess I'll start and just let the people 12 hours from now deal with the mess, because it's probably not going to get fixed.

Also, we'll be able to make baskets with thread now (not needle and ball of thread, just thread) because we didn't have enough uses for thread and, more importantly, it's product, rope. Glad we have more stuff to do with all the extra thread lying around.

Sorry if it sounds like complaining. I try to avoid doing so as much as possible, but I just wanted to share my thoughts. I'm sure not many people care, but there it is. Also, feel free to share your own thoughts; or just tell me that I'm wrong.

Last edited by FeignedSanity (2019-05-29 23:44:37)

Jk Howling · 2019-05-29 23:17:18

FeignedSanity wrote:

So, we can make baskets with thread now (not needle and ball of thread, just thread)

Is this confirmed? Because I'm not wasting 2 milkweed on a fuckin basket when I can make them with no milkweed instead lmao. Milkweed's already a constantly wanted/needed item in the current meta, both in early and late game. There's little excuse for throwing it away to make baskets, whether in early game where milkweed is in constant need, or late game when taking a cart and making a trip to a nearby swamp is less wasteful of resources.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if people considered using early-game thread for making baskets as a new griefing tactic.

Last edited by Jk Howling (2019-05-29 23:17:35)

RodneyC86 · 2019-05-29 23:19:32

Jk Howling wrote:

FeignedSanity wrote:
So, we can make baskets with thread now (not needle and ball of thread, just thread)
Is this confirmed? Because I'm not wasting 2 milkweed on a fuckin basket when I can make them with no milkweed instead lmao. Milkweed's already a constantly wanted/needed item in the current meta, both in early and late game. There's little excuse for throwing it away to make baskets, whether in early game where milkweed is in constant need, or late game when taking a cart and making a trip to a nearby swamp is less wasteful of resources.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if people considered using early-game thread for making baskets as a new griefing tactic.

Agree this is bad all around. Why do we keep choking down the milkweed line. That poor weedy little plant can't keep up

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-29 23:38:26

Jk Howling wrote:

Is this confirmed?

Well, obviously it's not live yet, but it got posted to the "live-dev-changes" feed of the discord. You can also see it in the unreleased content side of the one tech crafting site thing.

https://edge.onetech.info/58-Thread

Dodge · 2019-05-29 23:57:38

That has to be the worst addition in OHOL's history

Jason is either trolling or genuinly thought it was going to be a good idea to use thread to make baskets.

If i see someone making a basket with a thread it's a stab no questions asked.

Booklat1 · 2019-05-30 00:03:20

drawing a fucking barrel must be too hard

I'm checking github and literally no one asked for this.

jasonrohrer · 2019-05-30 00:09:11

You guys can grow milkweed. As much as you want. It has no side-effects.

The complaint with straw was that it produced wheat, right? Right?

RodneyC86 · 2019-05-30 00:13:42

jasonrohrer wrote:

You guys can grow milkweed. As much as you want. It has no side-effects.
The complaint with straw was that it produced wheat, right? Right?

Yes, but using thread instead is terrible. There is also a complaint that rope is too scarce and I can argue that is a bigger problem . So now we sacrifice potential wooden boxes into baskets? No thank you, I rather keep the thread to make boxes later

Psykout · 2019-05-30 00:18:13

It's just another route to make a basket right? Can still do normally? it seems odd but we might be able to work with this. Could we look at making milkweed debris and stumps not take as long to decay if we are going to be farming it more? 11 minutes to free the tile on a fruiting milkweed stump is a lot of time, 5 minutes for Milkweed Debris -Fruit is plenty to collect the seeds you need to replant. Heck even 2min would be fine. I think part of farming milkweed that is annoying is dealing with the stumps, if someone picks a bunch when fruiting you are left with a lot of farm space that can't be used for 1/6 of a life.

Even if we lost normal basket making, which will take second to get around, having them not decay is really nice. If all baskets will need thread, that will be challenging at first, but I think we can make it happen.

Last edited by Psykout (2019-05-30 00:27:10)

Don Holm · 2019-05-30 00:18:28

We need massive amount of milkweed every time, maybe just make milkweed gives instantly a thread instead when harvested? That doubles the amount of milkweed harvested and solves the issue!

Milkweed stalks are useless so giving thread from the milkweed plant directly would be very nice

Last edited by Don Holm (2019-05-30 00:21:39)

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-30 00:19:37

HOLY MOTHER OF JASON! He's actually done it, the mad lad. Baskets don't decay anymore (just posted on dev changes).

...wow....not the change I would've wanted, but it does solve my biggest problem with baskets....not sure how to feel tbh lol.

Also @Jasonrohrer

Growing milkweed is a giant pain in the ass and feels very unrewarding in it's current state. It just feels bad. Which might seem minor, but it makes a big difference.

Last edited by FeignedSanity (2019-05-30 00:23:43)

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-30 00:26:25

Psykout wrote:

It's just another route to make a basket right? Can still do normally, it seems odd but we might be able to work with this.

That's not the problem. The problem is that someone WILL do it at some point, whether to intentionally grief or just out of ignorance. Thread is so valuable at all stages of the game, that using any of it on baskets (when there's plenty of better alternatives) is borderline detrimental.

Booklat1 · 2019-05-30 00:31:23

jasonrohrer wrote:

The complaint with straw was that it produced wheat, right? Right?

The complaint is depending on baskets and boxes as our only storage

Jason, stop trying to evoke hidden meaning when we ask something, "I want tables" means exactly I want tables. Now you're going back on decay, even despite the whole logic behind adding it?

Consistency to bowls is awesome but we DO want other forms of storage, we DO want decay mechanics, we DON'T want fixes in what isnt broken.

Booklat1 · 2019-05-30 00:36:22

Honestly this is valid to everything in ohol, we're sorely lacking variation in all aspects of the game. Alternate pathways to the same items is a cheap fix that solves nothing.

And we wonder why the game loop gets boring in the endgame.

FeignedSanity · 2019-05-30 00:43:54

Booklat1 wrote:

The complaint is depending on baskets and boxes as our only storage

I personally don't feel like this is THE complaint. It's just a complaint held by some people.

BladeWoods · 2019-05-30 01:18:19

Now baskets don't decay which solves all potential wheat issues (I for one question an issue existed in the first place. Is the reason why we didn't have enough storage really because there was too much threshed wheat?).

But yeah thread is a bad replacement. The original choice is growing two wheat to make a basket. Thread + straw takes growing three plots: one wheat and two milkweed.
So thread + straw is 50% more work, which is a lot more work, and you don't get threshed wheat which is a good side-effect imo.

Last edited by BladeWoods (2019-05-30 01:19:46)

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-05-30 01:18:35

jasonrohrer wrote:

You guys can grow milkweed. As much as you want. It has no side-effects.

The side effect is that you cant eat it.

It's easy to mismanage soil (and now water) needs vs availability. If someone is in a mindset of "lets organize this place!" And plant a bunch of milkweed for boxes, they might have just doomed their families food production. Most people planting milkweed aren't composting either and can easily steal dirt that might be needed two or three generations from then.

Thats why the milkweed meta was, and still is, to grow it pretty far outside of town. Not only for greed of getting all reward yourself, but also not to burn your towns resources. You take soil and water that isn't dire to you.

Jk Howling · 2019-05-30 01:31:28

jasonrohrer wrote:

You guys can grow milkweed. As much as you want. It has no side-effects.
The complaint with straw was that it produced wheat, right? Right?

But why would I use a single thread to make a box when I can use 2 threads to make a box and 2 straw to make the basket?

Your logic literally doesn't work here Jason. Yes, grain-fields have been a complaint for awhile. But giving us an even worse option for baskets isn't helping literally anybody. Especially when that option uses a resource that is CONSTANTLY in demand, from the freshest of eve spawns to the largest of cities.

"You can just grow it" doesn't make it less of a waste of resources compared to the existing options we've already got. I'd rather use 2 thread on a box and make baskets combining wheat than waste 2 thread on 2 baskets for the sake of saving a couple tiles.

Would it really have been much harder to just put in a storage option for grain instead..?

testo · 2019-05-30 05:49:53

Whatever. Baskets dont decay, I wont complain for a week. Unless reverted lol, then I´ll complain about reverting it.

Whatever · 2019-05-30 07:17:46

jasonrohrer wrote:

I don't need to hear dozens of solutions. I need to understand the problem.

you made a thread to explain, that you need to understand the problem so you can come up with a solution.
you have the most experience and you can come up with the best solution.

at the same time your solution to too much wheat is to make it possible to use string to create baskets.
instead of barrels to store wheat or make wheat stack able (like stone piles), which was suggested by people.

Tarr · 2019-05-30 08:08:16

jasonrohrer wrote:

You guys can grow milkweed. As much as you want. It has no side-effects.
The complaint with straw was that it produced wheat, right? Right?

I get you don't want to put in the work for making a barrel to hold grain but just making the wheat decay on the floor after like an hour would have been a much better solution than adding this transition. The problem is you naturally produce too much wheat through composting and whenever you had to make more baskets this compounded the issue.

This solution is a big disconnect from what the actual problem is. Free resources that last forever are bad. Wheat shouldn't last until a city is culled, along with mutton but baby steps I suppose. Adding in ways to grief through things like making baskets with thread or creating more noob traps are bad for the game,as you shouldn't be trying to trick new players into bad choices.

While I'm happy you're trying to fix the issue this is a huge miss.

testo · 2019-05-30 08:08:49

Whatever wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
I don't need to hear dozens of solutions. I need to understand the problem.
you made a thread to explain, that you need to understand the problem so you can come up with a solution.
you have the most experience and you can come up with the best solution.
at the same time your solution to too much wheat is to make it possible to use string to create baskets.
instead of barrels to store wheat or make wheat stack able (like stone piles), which was suggested by people.

To be fair to Jason´s post, the solution to wheat is not to store it as several people proposed. The problem is: theres too much grain unused in the farms. Solution is not to store it.

The basic original problem is: wheat in town is grown for straw mostly with grain as a by-product and not the other way around (like in real life). There will be always a surplus of grain as long as you grow wheat for the compost and not for the grain. Stackable wheat and barrels will end up unused anyways under this analysis.

Easier solution? Make compost craftable from full wheat and straw only. That way you will get compost everytime and grain whenever you need it.

Am I doint it right?

RodneyC86 · 2019-05-30 08:14:49

testo wrote:

Whatever wrote:
jasonrohrer wrote:
I don't need to hear dozens of solutions. I need to understand the problem.
you made a thread to explain, that you need to understand the problem so you can come up with a solution.
you have the most experience and you can come up with the best solution.
at the same time your solution to too much wheat is to make it possible to use string to create baskets.
instead of barrels to store wheat or make wheat stack able (like stone piles), which was suggested by people.
To be fair to Jason´s post, the solution to wheat is not to store it as several people proposed. The problem is: theres too much grain unused in the farms. Solution is not to store it.
The basic original problem is: wheat in town is grown for straw mostly with grain as a by-product and not the other way around (like in real life). There will be always a surplus of grain as long as you grow wheat for the compost and not for the grain. Stackable wheat and barrels will end up unused anyways under this analysis.
Easier solution? Make compost craftable from full wheat and straw only. That way you will get compost everytime and grain whenever you need it.
Am I doint it right?

Plausible, or they could let bread stack, or at least let unsliced bread storable. Then people can yoink out one to put on a plate for cutting later. I hate seeing 12 plates of plates of sliced bread sitting in the open.

Or maybe the problem is we are all too anal retentive? (Nah)

Last edited by RodneyC86 (2019-05-30 08:15:42)

Tarr · 2019-05-30 08:22:58

RodneyC86 wrote:

testo wrote:
Whatever wrote:
you made a thread to explain, that you need to understand the problem so you can come up with a solution.
you have the most experience and you can come up with the best solution.
at the same time your solution to too much wheat is to make it possible to use string to create baskets.
instead of barrels to store wheat or make wheat stack able (like stone piles), which was suggested by people.
To be fair to Jason´s post, the solution to wheat is not to store it as several people proposed. The problem is: theres too much grain unused in the farms. Solution is not to store it.
The basic original problem is: wheat in town is grown for straw mostly with grain as a by-product and not the other way around (like in real life). There will be always a surplus of grain as long as you grow wheat for the compost and not for the grain. Stackable wheat and barrels will end up unused anyways under this analysis.
Easier solution? Make compost craftable from full wheat and straw only. That way you will get compost everytime and grain whenever you need it.
Am I doint it right?
Plausible, or they could let bread stack, or at least let unsliced bread storable. Then people can yoink out one to put on a plate for cutting later. I hate seeing 12 plates of plates of sliced bread sitting in the open.
Or maybe the problem is we are all too anal retentive? (Nah)

Issue is Jason picked the weirdest solution to the problem. If we're making too much wheat should we either lose it, store It, or produce less?

Producing less seems good on paper but is way too expensive to actually do with his solution thus this is obviously not the correct solution to our actual problem.

Letting players store overproduced wheat allows for players to clean up the giant fields of wheat. However, if players aren't using the wheat as is then what's the point of storing It? You'll just keep making barrels and never run out. So this is also not a good solution.

Allowing thrashed wheat to naturally despawn means players can produce whatever they actually need while having the game naturally remove the excess. This encourages players to bake more or they'll lose their potential food. This is by far the easiest and best solution while not taking much work to implement.

Whatever · 2019-05-30 08:23:51

Imagine how nice it would be if you could store a lot of wheat at one tile in the bakery, maybe next to it a bucket of water.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-05-29 23:05:33

Thoughts on baskets

#2 2019-05-29 23:17:18

Re: Thoughts on baskets

#3 2019-05-29 23:19:32

Re: Thoughts on baskets

#4 2019-05-29 23:38:26

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#5 2019-05-29 23:57:38

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