Keep all the children alive

Lily · 2018-04-01 20:55:33

So it seems most people try to avoid over population, and will even let children die to avoid it. However, I played several games where the population seemed totally unsustainable, yet people still survived and got a lot done just because there is so many people. Obviously if all the people goof off you are in trouble, but if each person works, then the resources produced by one person is higher than what they use. Often by a great deal.

It seems like overpopulation isn't the problem, but rather people neglecting food is the problem. If there is tons of food then people some times don't pay attention and you eat through it quickly, and suddenly you got a lot of people with no food and people start to starve. However, if you have no food from the start and everyone is concerned about the supply, then as soon as they can they will work on it.

Maybe it is just me, but it seems like there is a valid strategy to keeping all the children you have and even taking care of abandoned children and stuff, to get as many as possible. Also, it seems like the bigger the population, the more likely people are to be reborn into the same place. So some children will know exactly what is going on from birth.

tshullie · 2018-04-01 21:23:08

I totally agree with you.
First of all, you never know who you just gave birth to. Yeah, sometimes it's pretty new players who can't do much alone, but we can still help each other and teach them how to do specific jobs. On the other hand, you could have given birth to a child who knows what's up - maybe they are great at hunting and sewing, or maybe at farming. Whatever it is they are good at, as long as they ACTUALLY take the game seriously and try to help their village, every extra mouth to feed is totally worth it.
Whenever I give birth I keep them alive, no matter if I'm in the middle of doing something. For me, giving other people the oppurtunity to live in our village and help it grow is a priority. When I see mothers abonden their kids, I will nurse them into childhood - after all, you never know what could happen. Some children get lost and die, some may starve, and some even die on purpose because they aren't happy with their gender and/or civ.
Every person is important and plays a huge role in the game, so it's upon us to allow them to take part in it through making them grow into children and teaching them the rules on the way.

Siolfor the Jackal · 2018-04-01 22:20:16

Yeah, I really dislike the idea of letting kids starve, it sucks when it happens to me.
I had a mother last night who told my sister and I that we should let some babies starve for the good of our farm. But when I eventually had kids I just couldn't do it. We had a brief moment where food was gone but my kids were good and we recovered quickly. I think I lost two kids anyway, but only because they waited to long to feed. I did my best and we all mostly survived. But I was lucky, I had smart, motivated children.

stickyflypaper · 2018-04-01 22:43:01

These are good points. I will try harder to raise all children. I have sometimes worried about overpopulation and running out of food, but I suppose bringing in more help is generally a good idea.
(I also tend to get overwhelmed in a highly populated town, but that's just my own personal problem to deal with).

masamune0 · 2018-04-01 22:54:04

Yeah, raise them all, so that only the strongest survive !

Lily · 2018-04-02 02:05:08

It is true that some times people die of starvation even with a bunch of food all around them. So it some times help to have backup children who are at the top of their game, to replace them.

Alleria · 2018-04-02 02:18:11

Every environment has a carrying capacity. What this means is there is a maximum number of people you can have. This varies depending on how efficient the farm is, how many foragers you have, whether you have clothing, a baker etc. However, if you are adamant you must raise all children, then you are largely responsible for the subsequent famine and collapse of your civilisation. You might not have killed anyone directly, but by refraining from doing so, you are worse than those who do.

There are a variety of solutions to overpopulation - the least violent is making people emigrate.

I've seen countless civilisations fall directly due to the actions of the bleeding-hearts like many of these in the forum. Usually when a place is overpopulated, I'll leave for 10-20 years then come back to it often completely empty.

Last edited by Alleria (2018-04-02 02:22:00)

Siolfor the Jackal · 2018-04-02 02:51:20

Yeah, and I've seen plenty of civilisations fall due to underpopulation too, and even ones I've been born into that have stricter population control still failing due to incompetance anyway. Maybe I have been lucky.

lesslucid · 2018-04-02 03:03:30

Alleria wrote:

There are a variety of solutions to overpopulation - the least violent is making people emigrate.

This is not only less violent but more effective. A human player who is killed as a baby in one village is quite likely to just be re-born nearby or in the same village a few minutes later. If you have a few members of the family migrate together to another nearby village, you help protect the family line and you divide the population of IRL players across a broader region with a greater carrying capacity.

TrustyWay · 2018-04-02 03:48:15

Yes underpopulation is a problem but with horse you find quickly a town to get a girl.

Everyone should give a hand to the farm but sometimes you get like 6-7 babies and they eat like crazy.

The main problem with overpopulation are all the moms that want to save their children. So sometimes you die from starvation because you didn't stock food in your backpack while most kids die too

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-04-02 03:48:29)

Lily · 2018-04-02 04:58:36

You can expand how many people can survive in an area though. Make wells, plant more bushes, grow wheat, and so on. If you are fully clothed or have a fire going, it actually doesn't take much food to raise children until they are useful.

Alleria · 2018-04-02 05:27:36

Underpopulation isn't really relevant. There's a huge difference between strict population control and smart population control. Killing all female babies is strict, but definitely not smart.

The only other reason why a civ is wiped out is due to underpopulation is a combination of the carrying capacity of the area is too low and bad luck in birth gender ratio (or them being noob).

Lily wrote:

You can expand how many people can survive in an area though. Make wells, plant more bushes, grow wheat, and so on. If you are fully clothed or have a fire going, it actually doesn't take much food to raise children until they are useful.

Wells are a bandaid solution to poor farm placement since they inevitably dry up. Bushes and wheat require water, although they do raise the max population to a point.

The only way to have the full server in a single civ, is for there to be multiple smaller hubs, or a really big spread out town. Water is the limiting factor, and wells are not a solution in a game with imperfect players.

Last edited by Alleria (2018-04-02 05:31:17)

Lily · 2018-04-02 05:42:08

Wells naturally refill, even if they dry up totally they will eventually come back. I was in one town where they had like 15 wells, water wasn't an issue. Also it isn't like you can't have a city near a bunch of ponds and also have wells for extra water on top of it. Theoretically, you could have the entire server's population in one city and survive if you make the city large enough.

stickyflypaper · 2018-04-02 05:49:44

lesslucid wrote:

Alleria wrote:
There are a variety of solutions to overpopulation - the least violent is making people emigrate.

This is not only less violent but more effective. A human player who is killed as a baby in one village is quite likely to just be re-born nearby or in the same village a few minutes later. If you have a few members of the family migrate together to another nearby village, you help protect the family line and you divide the population of IRL players across a broader region with a greater carrying capacity.

This sounds like a good strategy for me, personally. I don't want to let my kids starve, and I also get overwhelmed living in quickly growing villages. In those situations I can leave and have my kids elsewhere. Of course, then my kids might end up starving to death in the wilderness, anyway. Oh well.

Sakkiyn · 2018-04-02 06:05:57

stickyflypaper wrote:

lesslucid wrote:
Alleria wrote:
There are a variety of solutions to overpopulation - the least violent is making people emigrate.

This is not only less violent but more effective. A human player who is killed as a baby in one village is quite likely to just be re-born nearby or in the same village a few minutes later. If you have a few members of the family migrate together to another nearby village, you help protect the family line and you divide the population of IRL players across a broader region with a greater carrying capacity.
This sounds like a good strategy for me, personally. I don't want to let my kids starve, and I also get overwhelmed living in quickly growing villages. In those situations I can leave and have my kids elsewhere. Of course, then my kids might end up starving to death in the wilderness, anyway. Oh well.

When I spawn as a girl in a big village I make it my duty to gear up and leave for somewhere else. To keep my family line and my personal children alive. Do not keep all your eggs (or carrots) in one basket. This increases the chance of the family lineage going more generations, although if you go to a small farm, baby suicide rates increase (lazy players who cannot or will not tolerate hard mode) if you are lucky you find an abandoned and well stocked city/town.

Avalikia · 2018-04-02 06:23:47

I've never seen a village die off due to starvation purely because of overpopulation. I've seen way more villages die due to someone messing up the carrot farm - someone picking the seed row, or the farm isn't being tended at all, or someone lets the entire farm go to seed, not worrying about getting more soil, or they're a big village but nobody is bothering to make pie - something like that. If everyone is actually working hard and not screwing up, everyone produces more than they use and it's fine. Even if there are a lot of babies, they're only a huge drain if everyone is naked and there is no fire. And if you're in that situation, you might as raise as many as are smart enough to survive, because most will probably die.

Baker · 2018-04-02 06:52:11

I think if the majority of the babies are more experienced players then you will be fine. They'll grow up and start contributing straight away. New players are more problematic, They can't contribute as much because they don't know how. They are more likely to eat from the seed row and neglect the farm, It also takes up experienced players time to teach the noobs. A sudden influx of mostly new players can be damaging, It's a whole bunch of kids that will either die or not contribute much. Keep them if you have spare resources. Some places build hidden seed farms so that new players ruining the main farm doesn't doom the entire village.

Population control seems to happen naturally for the most part anyway, As people pointed out many kids starve on there own. There is also the problem of babies running away on purpose to get a different spawn, that seems like the most damaging especially if your only girl happens to run off.

Portager · 2018-04-02 06:55:05

Really, the old rules of chucking babies into the wild are starting to no longer apply to our world. We are evolving.

Only a few weeks ago, large villages were uncommon, small camps and wild eve spawns were the norm with the occasional village here or there. Now the opposite is true, organized villages have sprung up everywhere and it is actually uncommon (from what I can tell) not to spawn in or near one of these villages. These villages tend to be sustainable, and can support a large population. Assuming someone doesn't go on a murdering spree, village life tends to be fairly relaxed.

stickyflypaper · 2018-04-02 17:35:30

What if there was a job list board in villages showing which jobs are needed, with, say, a mark next to the job for each person doing the thing. New people could pick a job, and when they die or leave, the mark on the job board disappears.

Last edited by stickyflypaper (2018-04-02 17:36:13)

Rebel · 2018-04-02 22:57:11

~ A child marked for death finds a way to prove his worth. ~

After the new update my I was born as a male into a village that was low of food and ultimately marked to death, however, I wasn't going to go easy, I mixed myself into tiles with other babies and managed to keep myself alive. I found another mother who looked after me for the later years of my babyhood, I told her I was gonna bring her a present. a few years later I return with a tamed saddled horse and the whole village was amazed (I don't think they knew there was an update or they were just new), hopefully, my horse helped the town to grow or at least helped the hunters.

Always keep babies, you know who you may spawn.
#KingBaker #Horsewhisper #RealmTrader #ProtectorOfToronto #TeacherOfWays and #MotherOfManyTowns

coriander · 2018-04-03 04:37:26

I disagree with OP. Keeping all the babies always seems like a risky (and unnecessary) gamble to me. Either your village learns to adapt to a dozen new mouths to feed or it just collapses. As someone has mentioned above, there is a carrying capacity for each environment. A small farm of six tiles won't support three Eves and each of their three infants. Building new infrastructure requires a stable food source, and if your field is constantly empty you won't be able to make compost or support any other projects. An empty field will just stagnate your overall progress, if it does not kill everyone.

I've been in this overpopulation situation too many times, where the village can hardly feed itself, and Eves keep producing 5~6 babies. Nobody can do enduring work, because they're constantly facing hunger. Seeds can't be produced, because desperate folks prematurely harvest. Berry bushes are empty, because people have nothing else to eat. Everyone dies or migrates, save for a few and it just leaves a barren piece of land with no seeds and no berries.

I'm not saying every Eve should keep a single girl and kill every other child. I'm saying that when you make the decision to keep all your children, without evaluating the condition of your village or considering the possibility of overpopulation, you are probably being a burden to the functioning of your village.

Siolfor the Jackal · 2018-04-03 05:06:04

Looks like a bunch of us are having very very different experiences here since overpopulation by itself has rarely been a fatal issue for any farms in my experience.

Kouyate · 2018-04-03 05:19:21

Siolfor the Jackal wrote:

Yeah, I really dislike the idea of letting kids starve, it sucks when it happens to me.
I had a mother last night who told my sister and I that we should let some babies starve for the good of our farm. But when I eventually had kids I just couldn't do it. We had a brief moment where food was gone but my kids were good and we recovered quickly. I think I lost two kids anyway, but only because they waited to long to feed. I did my best and we all mostly survived. But I was lucky, I had smart, motivated children.

If I remember this correctly, we were the Bear clan and we stumbled on a dead farm with some tools and furnaces but no carts. I had spawned as Eve and immediately had a girl, then another, then another. We were doomed. I told NOUF that she was not allowed to keep any children, and that my eldest two daughters were to keep only one daughter each. Each child that lived, fought hard knowing that others would die so that they could have a chance at life.

Here's the thing...with how hard my first few children were working and with the seed rows being protected (right near the fire where the matriarch could watch) I ended up sparing all my future children. I think it was that initial fear of death by mother and being given a chance is what motivated our little crew. Who in turn motivated their own children. I don't know how that village or civ turned out after we renovated...but I did spawn after another full hour life as a Bear and we were still going strong that is until my smart children axed me.

Fun times. Glad you made it.

Edit:If I remember correctly changes the context of my sentence entirely the previously written "I REMEMBER CORRECTLY" was erroneous you may not even be my daughter idfk

Last edited by Kouyate (2018-04-03 05:30:17)

Lily · 2018-04-03 05:21:07

Well the reason I originally brought this up, was because I had like 6 children and there was only like 5 spots growing carrots(including the one for seeds). That is more people than rows of carrots. You wouldn't think you could survive that, but some just wander off to eat berries in the forest while it is growing, some went to get rabbits and make up some pies. Maybe one or two of them died along the way, but then more kept getting born and we expanded the farm and it worked out. Villages with ton of people around always seem to do fairly well. It gets a bit hectic at times but it seems to work out.

On the other hand, I been in many where I was the last surviving male, or just an unlucky old granny that only had boys and things eventually ended. Though to be fair, I am sure someone eventually showed up again to retake the area.

Lexyvil · 2018-04-03 05:36:15

As soon as I manage to be about 3 years old in a town that suffers from famine (or close to be), I tend to wander and live alone far in the woods and survive on berries to get my bearings. After making the basic clothing (loincloth or reed skirt), it's enough for me to help fix a town by getting whatever it's lacking of.

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Keep all the children alive

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