4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

futurebird · 2019-06-04 11:53:13

Since Jason seems busy at the moment I have an idea to slow this. If you get a string of dead babies type up a message like "Using /die won't help make you Eve, right?" and try to engage and inform these people. If enough of us do it maybe they'll notice and calm it down a bit. Some one hit /die over 230 times yesterday. That's just spam.

Kamor · 2019-06-04 12:37:17

Wow, this guy has some good endurance. This is not spam. I have done this my whole life in games. Rerolling my charakter stats in rpg, restarting games because starting maps sucks. Mostly offline games, but also in online games to find a game, which makes fun. Find a good group to play with and so on... Looks like he searched a very special condition for his game.

Have you ever thought, why we play games? There was also a discussion at other places here. But only to say it short. We play games to have fun. If game makes no fun, we play other games. If there is a way to make a game more fun to play for this player, you can't say stop it. Sure you can or can try. He will find other ways to play a game, which makes fun for him. You can't forbid this. At last consequence you can force this player only to leave and look for another game.

It´s not the vision only, what defines a game. You have also target groups. (OS, desktop/mobile, language, gamegenre, ...) Here we have the problem, that the vision ignores this. Honestly there is also no requirement to increase active player base. Servers can´t handle it. I have read some rewiews and it looks like more players will make only the game more laggy. So it´s easier to keep the player base small and try find some more players, who pay and go away.

This game is declared as "A multiplayer survival game of parenting and civilization building". If you remove eve, you have removed the basic (the beginning) of parenting and civilization building. Forcing a human to do a special role we have enough in real life, we don´t need this in games. It´s always a balance of the designer vision and the player wishes thats make a good game. If you ignore the players wishes, you can win some critics award but not the players.

Last edited by Kamor (2019-06-04 12:39:54)

testo · 2019-06-04 12:51:00

Kamor wrote:

Wow, this guy has some good endurance. This is not spam. I have done this my whole life in games. Rerolling my charakter stats in rpg, restarting games because starting maps sucks. Mostly offline games, but also in online games to find a game, which makes fun. Find a good group to play with and so on... Looks like he searched a very special condition for his game.
Have you ever thought, why we play games? There was also a discussion at other places here. But only to say it short. We play games to have fun. If game makes no fun, we play other games. If there is a way to make a game more fun to play for this player, you can't say stop it. Sure you can or can try. He will find other ways to play a game, which makes fun for him. You can't forbid this. At last consequence you can force this player only to leave and look for another game.
It´s not the vision only, what defines a game. You have also target groups. (OS, desktop/mobile, language, gamegenre, ...) Here we have the problem, that the vision ignores this. Honestly there is also no requirement to increase active player base. Servers can´t handle it. I have read some rewiews and it looks like more players will make only the game more laggy. So it´s easier to keep the player base small and try find some more players, who pay and go away.
This game is declared as "A multiplayer survival game of parenting and civilization building". If you remove eve, you have removed the basic (the beginning) of parenting and civilization building. Forcing a human to do a special role we have enough in real life, we don´t need this in games. It´s always a balance of the designer vision and the player wishes thats make a good game. If you ignore the players wishes, you can win some critics award but not the players.

Yes this is not a game for kids, you´ll find it boring. It becomes spam the moment you are literally spamming 15 times /die because you can only play in one place or can only play one way.

futurebird · 2019-06-04 12:59:08

I wouldn't care if it didn't impact *my* game. But this re-rolling has an impact on all players. It makes births seem less important. It makes mothers indifferent and annoyed by having kids. So is it worth it for this one person's idea of fun?

And if, they are trying to do this to become Eve it's not even that effective for *them*

Kamor · 2019-06-04 13:49:12

testo wrote:

Yes this is not a game for kids, you´ll find it boring. It becomes spam the moment you are literally spamming 15 times /die because you can only play in one place or can only play one way.

Hope you didn´t mean me with "kids and you will ..." I am near half the way to hundred. But anyway, i think there are a lot "kids" playing this game. Here they can do all the things they can´t do in realife. Insulting, Killing, Destroying. "Kids" like this. ;-P

Why 15 times makes it spam? Why not 3 times, if it is spam? Or forbid this command complete? For me it´s not spam, it´s a build in game option, players can use. Before you put me (again?) in a wrong drawer, i never used the /die command or made the runawaybaby.

Last edited by Kamor (2019-06-04 13:50:25)

Dodge · 2019-06-04 13:55:21

Kamor wrote:

testo wrote:
Yes this is not a game for kids, you´ll find it boring. It becomes spam the moment you are literally spamming 15 times /die because you can only play in one place or can only play one way.
Hope you didn´t mean me with "kids and you will ..." I am near half the way to hundred. But anyway, i think there are a lot "kids" playing this game. Here they can do all the things they can´t do in realife. Insulting, Killing, Destroying. "Kids" like this. ;-P
Why 15 times makes it spam? Why not 3 times, if it is spam? Or forbid this command complete? For me it´s not spam, it´s a build in game option, players can use. Before you put me (again?) in a wrong drawer, i never used the /die command or made the runawaybaby.

Someone could make a script that automatically does /die all day long wouldn't that be spam?

There needs to be some limit.

You could even have 5-10 accounts that do /die all day long and ruin the game for everyone so it's definitly an issue.

Kamor · 2019-06-04 14:16:32

Dodge wrote:

Someone could make a script that automatically does /die all day long wouldn't that be spam?
There needs to be some limit.
You could even have 5-10 accounts that do /die all day long and ruin the game for everyone so it's definitly an issue.

This is right.

Normaly there is some kind of captcha, to avoid this. But you can`t implement this on client side, this could be NOPed out with a simple hexeditor. And on serversite it´s nearly impossible to make this. You need to popup a website or send email to check this. Yes so there is a need of limit on /die.

But why we discuss about /die command?

Give the players what they want, make client "start as eve/boy/girl/same family/same town". No one need to use /die anymore. There is a reason, why players do this and you don´t want to fix the problem, you wanna fix the consequence of this problem. I think you will loose more players, when you go this way.

Last edited by Kamor (2019-06-04 14:18:59)

Dodge · 2019-06-04 14:27:49

Kamor wrote:

Dodge wrote:
Someone could make a script that automatically does /die all day long wouldn't that be spam?
There needs to be some limit.
You could even have 5-10 accounts that do /die all day long and ruin the game for everyone so it's definitly an issue.
This is right.
Normaly there is some kind of captcha, to avoid this. But you can`t implement this on client side, this could be NOPed out with a simple hexeditor. And on serversite it´s nearly impossible to make this. You need to popup a website or send email to check this. Yes so there is a need of limit on /die.
But why we discuss about /die command?
Give the players what they want, make client "start as eve/boy/girl/same family/same town". No one need to use /die anymore. There is a reason, why player do this and you don´t want to fix the problem, you wanna fix the consequence of this problem. I think you will loose more player when you go this way.

That's not in the spirit of the game to let you chose your life.

You get a life, it might not be perfect but you do the best with it and with the cards your dealt with.

Unlimited /die is not going to last for long since it allows just that, shopping for a life...

Also we had this issue before, too many Eve's is what caused villages to die, and limiting Eve's was a big part of the latest updates.

But you're right about fixing the problem vs consequences, there are reasons people use /die, lives are cheap and the map being infinite with an 8 hour wipe makes building civlisations pointless and progress impossible, no roads between towns are built...

Also there is no reasons to travel between towns or build these roads to visit other lineages.

So i can understand that people use /die if they know that everything they make will be lost anyway and that building or caring for a lineage is pointless.

And there is no penalty to death or lineages dying so why bother just /die until you have the life you think you want.

Last edited by Dodge (2019-06-04 14:28:20)

Kamor · 2019-06-04 14:40:26

Dodge wrote:

That's not in the spirit of the game to let you chose your life.

You can´t force a player to play this one life. If you would remove /die, they run away, or they do nothing and starve to next life, or they do some shitty action in town, before they starve. I prefer /die then.

If a player don´t want to play this life, it's more worthless for him. If you want to make life more worthy, let a player choose his life, if he wants. So this life is worthy for him.

And again -> It´s not the vision only, what defines a game. You have also target groups (players). If you don´t react on players wishes at some point, you will loose them.

Last edited by Kamor (2019-06-04 14:44:21)

MistressZues · 2019-06-04 14:52:52

Last night I was born to a small camp and got to work making swords, I had one son at the age of twenty five, I had a yum of 12 (that went to 18 later). He was my only kid (who apparently died as soon as he left me). Sad. later at the age of thirty six I had another baby Finally!. SIDS. IMMEDIATLY AFTER ANOTHER AND ANOTHER SIDS! It was the same baby saying the same thing everytime, "oh no why game lol" , this baby was the same player born to me nine times!!!! Finally at the age of thirty nine my pride and joy was born. Like his brother I named him sword. I gave him a bag with one on it and told him to protect our little family who only had two baby girls left my self my old female cousin and my younger male cousin. I had one more baby girl at 39 1/2. I told her she was my only girl asked her to stay and fully clothed her. I turned forty. I brought her to the fire, fed her with stew, she looked at me and bam SIDS.

few years later an eve family ran in with two bby girls an started making themselves at home. My male cousin hunter grabbed the sword and refused to kill them even though he claimed he was trying....(remember this). My brave son swooped in right as the eve started chasing one of our girls with her sword. He took out the mom and both girls even though our now third girl tried to save the aggressive eve and her spawn. My son grabbed the knife and took her out for being a trader to her kind. her mom stabbed my son, i saved him. my son saw the eves oldest girl taking our stuff south and pursued her. my sis and cousin passed. just me two bby girls and cousin hunter remained. hunter let out a laugh and stabbed the girl who was feeding her bby sis. i fed the bby , and healed the girl. grabbed the knife and killed hunter. my son returned with our stolen goods. i told him how proud i was and knew our family would be safe with him.

I got off topic with my story but the point is I had the same player nine times in a four minute period thanks to SIDS. Now that I think of it that eve that spawned and came in to our town was probably that little shit lol it would fit the timeline.
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … id=4709007

Last edited by MistressZues (2019-06-04 15:03:56)

futurebird · 2019-06-04 14:55:02

Kamor wrote:

Dodge wrote:
That's not in the spirit of the game to let you chose your life.
You can´t force a player to play this one life.

You can't stop the tiny handful of people who are abusing /die by using it more than 40 times a day from playing though and that would be a net improvement in gameplay for the majority of players.

Kamor · 2019-06-04 15:25:45

futurebird wrote:

You can't stop the tiny handful of people who are abusing /die by using it more than 40 times a day from playing though and that would be a net improvement in gameplay for the majority of players.

As i said, make /die limited to help against scripting and boting, but don´t think players don´t react on this also by doing other things.

And honestly

There is a tiny handful of people playing this game and the majority of players is gone. I wish i would know how many game keys would sold. >1000? So much more then 50% of the players are gone. And these tiny handful of player's using /die only reflecting, that there is a wish for more customized start condition and i bet there a players coming back, with such a change in game.

thundersen · 2019-06-04 15:35:36

Kamor wrote:

I wish i would know how many game keys would sold. >1000?

As far as I remember there are roughly 1000 unique players per day. The number of game keys sold is in the tens of thousands. Like maybe 50000 by now? Don't have current data at hand though.

Tarr · 2019-06-04 15:35:59

Kamor wrote:

futurebird wrote:
You can't stop the tiny handful of people who are abusing /die by using it more than 40 times a day from playing though and that would be a net improvement in gameplay for the majority of players.
As i said, make /die limited to help against scripting and boting, but don´t think players don´t react on this also by doing other things.
And honestly
There is a tiny handful of people playing this game and the majority of players is gone. I wish i would know how many game keys would sold. >1000? So much more then 50% of the players are gone. And these tiny handful of player's using /die only reflecting, that there is a wish for more customized start condition and i bet there a players coming back, with such a change in game.

That ship has long since sailed. Jason ran the game into the ground once already and we're still slowly bleeding out more players like we did the first time. As of 12/31/2018 about 50k units have been sold, that's the last time I seen Jason post any figure of it and that was found in the discord.

Given enough time I'm sure we'll be back down to the teens for players online during off peak hours. Just need to wait until Jason's vision of the game makes the player count tank again.

Spoonwood · 2019-06-04 16:13:25

Kamor wrote:

Wow, this guy has some good endurance. This is not spam. I have done this my whole life in games. Rerolling my charakter stats in rpg, restarting games because starting maps sucks. Mostly offline games, but also in online games to find a game, which makes fun. Find a good group to play with and so on... Looks like he searched a very special condition for his game.

I use to play a game called Civ III (you've heard of it?). There existed a wide variety of ways to start the game which was rather nice. Someone wrote a utility program called 'MapFinder' to look for starts in the game. So in addition to the player doing this, players will make a machine to do this even better than they can. Perhaps someone is working on a utility program to slash die fast enough so that the player can become Eve, and just hasn't found out how fast their program needs to run?

I think your comments correct in general.

jasonrohrer · 2019-06-04 16:22:53

Still working on this issue.

Obviously, the way this currently works is really stupid.

Spoonwood · 2019-06-04 16:24:21

Dodge wrote:

Also we had this issue before, too many Eve's is what caused villages to die, and limiting Eve's was a big part of the latest updates.

No. Advanced villages had an advantage in terms of fertility over Eve camps. Maybe not much, but something.

Dodge wrote:

But you're right about fixing the problem vs consequences, there are reasons people use /die, lives are cheap and the map being infinite with an 8 hour wipe makes building civlisations pointless and progress impossible, no roads between towns are built.

Nowhere close to enough flat rocks locally for how long it takes with current storage limitations or not enough space in a cart for roads OR roads are just dangerous and invite close enough neighbors to go on killing sprees. It's possible on a low pop server with Eve chaining to build big roads, but it's the same repetitive action of riding out on a horsecart over and over and over again and getting 4 flat rocks at a time.

futurebird · 2019-06-04 16:24:48

Thanks, Jason. Here is the thread where we looked at the hashes to get these numbers. I posted some graphs.

http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6814

WalrusesConquer · 2019-06-04 17:29:21

I thought choosing was against the point of tne game? Sure you could have a button. But where does that leave you when everyone wants to be an eve, and only five people want to actually build civilisation? Without /die you would just waste your mothers time for three minutes, can people who use it just calm down a bit please?

futurebird · 2019-06-04 17:59:47

WalrusesConquer wrote:

I thought choosing was against the point of tne game? Sure you could have a button. But where does that leave you when everyone wants to be an eve, and only five people want to actually build civilisation? Without /die you would just waste your mothers time for three minutes, can people who use it just calm down a bit please?

Agree. We are talking about 19 people who are responsible for about 1/3 of the /die babies. Can we just send them a message asking them to calm down?

Dodge · 2019-06-04 18:43:18

Spoonwood wrote:

Dodge wrote:
Also we had this issue before, too many Eve's is what caused villages to die, and limiting Eve's was a big part of the latest updates.
No. Advanced villages had an advantage in terms of fertility over Eve camps. Maybe not much, but something.
Dodge wrote:
But you're right about fixing the problem vs consequences, there are reasons people use /die, lives are cheap and the map being infinite with an 8 hour wipe makes building civlisations pointless and progress impossible, no roads between towns are built.
Nowhere close to enough flat rocks locally for how long it takes with current storage limitations or not enough space in a cart for roads OR roads are just dangerous and invite close enough neighbors to go on killing sprees. It's possible on a low pop server with Eve chaining to build big roads, but it's the same repetitive action of riding out on a horsecart over and over and over again and getting 4 flat rocks at a time.

"No. Advanced villages had an advantage in terms of fertility over Eve camps. Maybe not much, but something."

It was killing villages because too many Eve's = not enough people in each village... Advantage wasn't enough, didn't you see villages die?

"Nowhere close to enough flat rocks locally for how long it takes with current storage limitations or not enough space in a cart for roads OR roads are just dangerous and invite close enough neighbors to go on killing sprees. It's possible on a low pop server with Eve chaining to build big roads, but it's the same repetitive action of riding out on a horsecart over and over and over again and getting 4 flat rocks at a time."

There is enough flat rocks to make long roads believe me, but there is no interest in interacting with other towns at least in a peaceful way...

Spoonwood · 2019-06-04 18:56:33

Dodge wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Dodge wrote:
Also we had this issue before, too many Eve's is what caused villages to die, and limiting Eve's was a big part of the latest updates.
No. Advanced villages had an advantage in terms of fertility over Eve camps. Maybe not much, but something.
Dodge wrote:
But you're right about fixing the problem vs consequences, there are reasons people use /die, lives are cheap and the map being infinite with an 8 hour wipe makes building civlisations pointless and progress impossible, no roads between towns are built.
Nowhere close to enough flat rocks locally for how long it takes with current storage limitations or not enough space in a cart for roads OR roads are just dangerous and invite close enough neighbors to go on killing sprees. It's possible on a low pop server with Eve chaining to build big roads, but it's the same repetitive action of riding out on a horsecart over and over and over again and getting 4 flat rocks at a time.

"No. Advanced villages had an advantage in terms of fertility over Eve camps. Maybe not much, but something."
It was killing villages because too many Eve's = not enough people in each village... Advantage wasn't enough, didn't you see villages die?

I don't find what caused it clear. Neither of us has talked about the lineage ban killing off the possibility of birth in a village. Villages might have died off due to the lineage ban locking too many of the incoming players out of village.

Dodge wrote:

"Nowhere close to enough flat rocks locally for how long it takes with current storage limitations or not enough space in a cart for roads OR roads are just dangerous and invite close enough neighbors to go on killing sprees. It's possible on a low pop server with Eve chaining to build big roads, but it's the same repetitive action of riding out on a horsecart over and over and over again and getting 4 flat rocks at a time."
There is enough flat rocks to make long roads believe me, but there is no interest in interacting with other towns at least in a peaceful way...

I'm not sure what your claim is. There exist enough flatties on the map, yes. But, there don't exist all that many locally. If a town is 500 tiles away, it's more than 500 flatties, and I doubt two people on a horsecart can lay out that many flatties in a life, let alone pound them down with the current system. They don't get it done, who knows if others take up a project? Getting an estimate on how many flatties can get layed out in a life would be a useful measure of the local flattie supply, and it's generally pretty weak in my experience.

I do think interest lacking also.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-06-04 18:57:04)

Kamor · 2019-06-04 18:57:51

futurebird wrote:

Agree. We are talking about 19 people who are responsible for about 1/3 of the /die babies. Can we just send them a message asking them to calm down?

Found this on your crosslinked thread :"427 unique players who used /die at least once on Sunday."

Checking the data from Valareos there, we have: (*could be errors in my counting)

3 Players >200
7 Players 100-199
24 Player 50-99
16 Players 30-49
30 players 20-29
52 players 10-19
7 players 9
12 players 8
21 players 7
22 players 6
21 players 5
21 players 4
30 players 3
45 players 2
rest players 1

So if this 19 people you mean calm down a bit you have still a lot of /die, perhaps you go down from 60% to 40% on /die babies? Starvation will go up of course, because players uses other ways to find there "favorite" lives.

I didn´t think it's enough to send players a message to calm down.

Dodge · 2019-06-04 18:58:40

Spoonwood wrote:

I'm not sure what your claim is. There exist enough flatties on the map, yes. But, there don't exist all that many locally. If a town is 500 tiles away, it's more than 500 flatties, and I doubt two people on a horsecart can lay out that many flatties in a life, let alone pound them down with the current system. They don't get it done, who knows if others take up a project? Getting an estimate on how many flatties can get layed out in a life would be a useful measure of the local flattie supply, and it's generally pretty weak in my experience.
I do think interest lacking also.

2k+ roads have been done in the past, you really dont know...

futurebird · 2019-06-04 18:59:28

"perhaps you go down from 60% to 40% on /die babies?"

That would be a great start.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-06-04 11:53:13

4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#2 2019-06-04 12:37:17

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#3 2019-06-04 12:51:00

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#4 2019-06-04 12:59:08

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#5 2019-06-04 13:49:12

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#6 2019-06-04 13:55:21

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#7 2019-06-04 14:16:32

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#8 2019-06-04 14:27:49

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#9 2019-06-04 14:40:26

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#10 2019-06-04 14:52:52

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#11 2019-06-04 14:55:02

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#12 2019-06-04 15:25:45

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#13 2019-06-04 15:35:36

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#14 2019-06-04 15:35:59

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#15 2019-06-04 16:13:25

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#16 2019-06-04 16:22:53

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#17 2019-06-04 16:24:21

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#18 2019-06-04 16:24:48

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#19 2019-06-04 17:29:21

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#20 2019-06-04 17:59:47

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#21 2019-06-04 18:43:18

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#22 2019-06-04 18:56:33

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#23 2019-06-04 18:57:51

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#24 2019-06-04 18:58:40

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

#25 2019-06-04 18:59:28

Re: 4.5% *of players who use die at all* account for 38.1% of the deaths!

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