a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Greifing: I'm going to wipe out that village for the lulz like I do every time I play
Not Griefing: We need that towns resources. Time to take what we need.
Not Griefing: Ok, today for this life I will play as a mercenary. My village elder has asked me to take out another village.
Most Memorable Life : Elisabeth Peters, Adopted by Flint Peters. Gen 59, LD 36
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Greifing: I'm going to wipe out that village for the lulz like I do every time I play
Not Griefing: We need that towns resources. Time to take what we need.
Not Griefing: Ok, today for this life I will play as a mercenary. My village elder has asked me to take out another village.
Well I do ask my village elders and mother if I can take out the villages. If they say no I just find something else to do. I had a mother who told me to wipe out the Genier before I was even old enough to pick up things because apparently one of them took a bag from our village.
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So would you say what I did was griefing then?
Read your message #26, there I stated you were not griefing and you quoted that exact part saying I thought you were griefing ? I don't understand. (Edit: nah = nope = no)
Also, sorry for earlier long post, read it, I've seen two videos Twisted killed (one your mentioned, one where he was instrumental in killing entire family line).
He griefs some in ways I stated in earlier post, nothing major though.
Also you did not answer my question, maybe for the better.
Last edited by Sukallinen (2019-06-12 23:50:20)
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Chaos4Horseman wrote:So would you say what I did was griefing then?
Read your message #26, there I stated you were not griefing and you quoted that exact part saying I thought you were griefing ? I don't understand. (Edit: nah = nope = no)
Sorry I'm a bit dislexic so I might've read the name wrong and thought you were someone else. In a second I'll see if I can find that post you wrote and answer your question.
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As far as I know I've seen all of his videos, two (you saw one) he has done killings. One was what stated earlier, one to kill a family line. And nah, I personally don't see these as griefing, killing is part of game-though there *should* be a way to live harmoniously with another family, it's just not possible at current game mechanics. It's not even possible to live in single family, but at least you can curse etc (did mechanics of that get so one could curse other lineage or even people with no surname? Idk, I don't curse easily).
I don't know what they could do to make it better and get people to like joining families. Maybe something like only another person outside of your family can help cure other families from diseases including yellow fever. Maybe some other diseases could be implemented to help make this happen, like dysentary. They could also try to make it so walls or floors need another person outside of a family to help build it (kind of like an immigration need), or an in-game economy so you can sell items to other villages which gives each village more resources.
So, please define griefing (hopefully what Twisted's done), I don't like to define mine since it's so much worse than, say, wasting all sheep (easily replenishable/prevented/limited trouble) or picking up/not picking up some plants. Or Twisted never leaving one corn to dry out (I find it odd). What kind of griefing is later stage of town having 6 rows of extra seeds ?
Well that's what I'm saying people have different opinions on what griefing is. I have seen some people let the entire carrot farm turn to seeds because it wastes soil. I only go after people outside of family in the village and I ask for permission first before I do it. If told not to, then I usually farm, get wood/food/soil from the wild, or I help feed babies and people who are afk.
Edit: I've travelled world IRL and where-ever I go I see people littering landscape, whats up with that ? I do make a point to pick up one more trash than I make, where-ever I go.
It is very sad that people actually litter. When I was a kid my mother spanked me if I ever dropped garbage on the ground outside and walking away without picking it up. I work as a janitor at a school irl and some of the students call me a "garbage eating tree hugging fag" for just doing my own job. I do pick up litter whenever I can on my own time as well. I mostly did griefing to releive myself of stress because I live in a group home (sence I am slihtly aotistic) and they don't let me play games like gta, cod, other... becauze they are to violant. They let me get this game becauze they thaught it looked cute and they don't know it can be violant. I also watch youtube videos and ask if I can get a game if I like the videos of it.
Did I answer the question you wanted me to answer?
Last edited by Chaos4Horseman (2019-06-13 01:18:56)
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Well I've found out something. People don't care if you try to make up for your past or your mistakes!
I was in a village and someone asked if I knew how to use a sword. So, I told them yes because I was the one who took out the Genier. Next thing I knew I got killed with a bow and cursed by everyone. Told a mom the next life and got abandoned and starved. Told an older sibling and got stabbed. Told a baby I had and they came and stabbed when older, etc...
I'm starting to think I shouldn't regret what I've done anymore. I felt bad earlier, but since people can't let you grow from mistakes or learn from your past why should I bother?
I'm gonna do more of it now than I used to! I don't care what anyone thinks. I get beat in this group home I live in if I don't say the lady is nice or good to her boss, so why should I care what feelings anyone has in a game? If I tell the boss anything bad the lady did then all I get is told that she is doing her job and I am making it up...
That's why I do what I do in the game, I try to make myself happy by doing that. I tried being nice at least 13 times and that's all I've gotten from it. Nobody cares about nice things you do, they only remember the bad!
I give up on trying to be a nice player to others anymore. If this is what I get for telling people that I'm trying to make up for my past then I don't want it... People expect you to be nice to others, but when you had enough of someone being mean to you, they don't listen. So I'm done trying to be a good person in this game. I will become the bad guy instead!
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Well I've found out something. People don't care if you try to make up for your past or your mistakes!
I was in a village and someone asked if I knew how to use a sword. So, I told them yes because I was the one who took out the Genier. Next thing I knew I got killed with a bow and cursed by everyone. Told a mom the next life and got abandoned and starved. Told an older sibling and got stabbed. Told a baby I had and they came and stabbed when older, etc...
I'm starting to think I shouldn't regret what I've done anymore. I felt bad earlier, but since people can't let you grow from mistakes or learn from your past why should I bother?
I'm gonna do more of it now than I used to! I don't care what anyone thinks. I get beat in this group home I live in if I don't say the lady is nice or good to her boss, so why should I care what feelings anyone has in a game? If I tell the boss anything bad the lady did then all I get is told that she is doing her job and I am making it up...
That's why I do what I do in the game, I try to make myself happy by doing that. I tried being nice at least 13 times and that's all I've gotten from it. Nobody cares about nice things you do, they only remember the bad!
I give up on trying to be a nice player to others anymore. If this is what I get for telling people that I'm trying to make up for my past then I don't want it... People expect you to be nice to others, but when you had enough of someone being mean to you, they don't listen. So I'm done trying to be a good person in this game. I will become the bad guy instead!
No one ever said road to redemption is easy.
Should have really considered the conseuqences. Good luck whatever your decide.
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No one ever said road to redemption is easy.
Should have really considered the conseuqences. Good luck whatever your decide.
So I should just let people walk over me like the lady here does? Kind of dumb since people called me dumbass, noob, the r word, fag, etc... when I first started this game and was an actual nice player to begin with. That is what made me snap and do what I did. So you're saying I should forgive those people and stop? I don't know if I should since that would be easy for them.
People seem to praise youtubers for what they do, and yet a simple person who uses a game like this to make there life better get treated like dirt and get treated like it's there fault for trying to be nice after they do only one thing when they got mad.
Why am I supposed to say sorry to this lady in this home every time I saw what she does to me? Am I supposed to thank or forgive her for hitting me? Guess getting hit is funny to people these days and trying to get people to like you is bad. I only attacked the Genier when another player, my mother in the game, told me to. I wonder why I should still listen to the other players since I get stuff like this happening to me for doing what I was told...
Next time I play and someone tells me to kill another I won't. I don't care if that person kills the entire village, it'll show that I am not doing anything bad, because you get killed for killing even if it's a good thing. So I don't care whatever happens!
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RodneyC86 wrote:No one ever said road to redemption is easy.
Should have really considered the conseuqences. Good luck whatever your decide.So I should just let people walk over me like the lady here does? Kind of dumb since people called me dumbass, noob, the r word, fag, etc... when I first started this game and was an actual nice player to begin with. That is what made me snap and do what I did. So you're saying I should forgive those people and stop? I don't know if I should since that would be easy for them.
People seem to praise youtubers for what they do, and yet a simple person who uses a game like this to make there life better get treated like dirt and get treated like it's there fault for trying to be nice after they do only one thing when they got mad
Why am I supposed to say sorry to this lady in this home every time I saw what she does to me? Am I supposed to thank or forgive her for hitting me? Guess getting hit is funny to people these days and trying to get people to like you is bad. I only attacked the Genier when another player, my mother in the game, told me to. I wonder why I should still listen to the other players since I get stuff like this happening to me for doing what I was told...
Next time I play and someone tells me to kill another I won't. I don't care if that person kills the entire village, it'll show that I am not doing anything bad, because you get killed for killing even if it's a good thing. So I don't care whatever happens!
Can't help you, dude. Can't say I ever fell into that moral pit yet. Maybe go under the radar a bit? Don't mention anything about your Genier story. It can sound like you were bragging about killing one of them and to a person who didn't know the full story it can sound like you were a full blown griefer
PS: I have seldom been called names before but I wouldn't resort to murders or griefing. Been called Gay before but no one in the village likes that punk anyway. I find 90 percent of players are very decent hardworking people
Last edited by RodneyC86 (2019-06-13 03:15:10)
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PS: I have never been called names before but I wouldn't resort to murders or griefing. Been called Gay before but no one in the village likes that punk anyway. I find 90 percent of players are very decent hardworking people
Well I didn't use to murder/grief. It started when someone told me if I wanted to get back at the person who called me those names to kill them. That was by my own in game mother at the time. I used to just ignore, but after having that happen every time I played and for 12 days strat I got mad and did that.
I just don't get why people are mean to others, it kind of shows that humanity will never be at peace, which is sad.
Thank you for being the one person here who was kind to me here. I'll actually do what you said and lay low for a bit instead of just fueling the fire. Hope I can just play normal without anyone being a jerk, and I'm sorry to hear how rude people were to you too.
Hope you have a great morning, day, night wherever you are. Thanks again!
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RodneyC86 wrote:PS: I have never been called names before but I wouldn't resort to murders or griefing. Been called Gay before but no one in the village likes that punk anyway. I find 90 percent of players are very decent hardworking people
Well I didn't use to murder/grief. It started when someone told me if I wanted to get back at the person who called me those names to kill them. That was by my own in game mother at the time. I used to just ignore, but after having that happen every time I played and for 12 days strat I got mad and did that.
I just don't get why people are mean to others, it kind of shows that humanity will never be at peace, which is sad.
Thank you for being the one person here who was kind to me here. I'll actually do what you said and lay low for a bit instead of just fueling the fire. Hope I can just play normal without anyone being a jerk, and I'm sorry to hear how rude people were to you too.
Hope you have a great morning, day, night wherever you are. Thanks again!
I still haven't try to kick your ass though. Don't let me catch you lol
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I still haven't try to kick your ass though. Don't let me catch you lol
I can do pvp any time you wanna. Gonna go try to play a normal life now. Let me know if you wanna play sometime. Anyways, have a good night, I am gonna close my browser now.
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@Chaos4Horseman,
there seems to be a few things to untangle in your arguments.
First, good ideas about how to add some value to strangers. I'm all for, hopefully Jason does something about it.
But now to the idea that "people" don't care about attempts of redemption and that one might as well be a griefer:
Let's make a few assumptions first.
1. Everybody is the center of their own universe. They can't not be. It's "me", the person I have full knowledge of (sort of), and "you"/"everyone else" who I can make assumptions about, but only after I see what they do or listen to what they say. Or I can make assumption about them based on what I think I know about someone else who are like them in some way.
2. Every villain is a hero (albeit sometimes a tragic one) in their own eyes. Every villain has some form of explanation that redeems them in their own eyes.
3. This is just a game.
In the game, as we have already talked about, letting strangers live is a risk. Strangers have one ability only that family does not have, and that is the ability to wage war. This means that somewhere down the line, if you let a stranger live, their descendants might kill your descendants. By eradicating them, you have made your town safer.
Personally, I think that "my mother told me to do it" is a valid RP reason. However, if you find a village, there is still tens or even hundreds of hours of work gone into building that village. The people you kill might be in the middle of a project that they think is fun. When you end it, it is hard for them not to conceive you as a griefer.
Now, just like having strangers around is a risk, having griefers around is also a risk. If it is okay to eradicate a village just to be safe, then it should also be okay to kill a baby you believe is a griefer just to be safe. It's the same argument.
I believe (not knowing anything about you, just assuming based on my (certainly limited) knowledge of human beings), that the only reason this feels different to you is because in the act of slaying a village, you were not the victim, and so you have no incentive to try to understand the victims. In the act of baby killing you were the victim, and so it feels wrong to you that others didn't make an attempt to understand you.
The thing to remember in all of this is that it is just a game. Whether you choose to be someone who ends other people's fun (a griefer) or a decent person who tries to have fun with other people instead, that is up to you. You're not hurting anyone's bodies or souls. All your choices will result in is that perhaps someone you interact with will decide that this is not the game for them, and leave.
However, do not fool yourself into thinking that "other people deserve" a certain form of behavior from you. In the long run that way of thinking will only harm you. It's not about them. It's about you. What kind of person do you want to be?
You see, whether people accept someone's attempt of redemption or not is irrelevant. Redemption does not come through other people. It comes through you. If you know what to do, and you do it, and you don't receive the acknowledgement you deserve - you still knew what to do. You still did what you had to do. That's a win. Don't let anyone else bring you down. Acknowledgement is nice and all, but it doesn't beat being the person you want to be and the confidence that follows.
Last edited by CatX (2019-06-13 07:10:23)
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Ah the age old question of individual vs society
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@Chaos4Horseman,
there seems to be a few things to untangle in your arguments.
First, good ideas about how to add some value to strangers. I'm all for, hopefully Jason does something about it.
But now to the idea that "people" don't care about attempts of redemption and that one might as well be a griefer:
Let's make a few assumptions first.
1. Everybody is the center of their own universe. They can't not be. It's "me", the person I have full knowledge of (sort of), and "you"/"everyone else" who I can make assumptions about, but only after I see what they do or listen to what they say. Or I can make assumption about them based on what I think I know about someone else who are like them in some way.
2. Every villain is a hero (albeit sometimes a tragic one) in their own eyes. Every villain has some form of explanation that redeems them in their own eyes.
3. This is just a game.
In the game, as we have already talked about, letting strangers live is a risk. Strangers have one ability only that family does not have, and that is the ability to wage war. This means that somewhere down the line, if you let a stranger live, their descendants might kill your descendants. By eradicating them, you have made your town safer.
Personally, I think that "my mother told me to do it" is a valid RP reason. However, if you find a village, there is still tens or even hundreds of hours of work gone into building that village. The people you kill might be in the middle of a project that they think is fun. When you end it, it is hard for them not to conceive you as a griefer.
Now, just like having strangers around is a risk, having griefers around is also a risk. If it is okay to eradicate a village just to be safe, then it should also be okay to kill a baby you believe is a griefer just to be safe. It's the same argument.
I believe (not knowing anything about you, just assuming based on my (certainly limited) knowledge of human beings), that the only reason this feels different to you is because in the act of slaying a village, you were not the victim, and so you have no incentive to try to understand the victims. In the act of baby killing you were the victim, and so it feels wrong to you that others didn't make an attempt to understand you.
The thing to remember in all of this is that it is just a game. Whether you choose to be someone who ends other people's fun (a griefer) or a decent person who tries to have fun with other people instead, that is up to you. You're not hurting anyone's bodies or souls. All your choices will result in is that perhaps someone you interact with will decide that this is not the game for them, and leave.
However, do not fool yourself into thinking that "other people deserve" a certain form of behavior from you. In the long run that way of thinking will only harm you. It's not about them. It's about you. What kind of person do you want to be?
You see, whether people accept someone's attempt of redemption or not is irrelevant. Redemption does not come through other people. It comes through you. If you know what to do, and you do it, and you don't receive the acknowledgement you deserve - you still knew what to do. You still did what you had to do. That's a win. Don't let anyone else bring you down. Acknowledgement is nice and all, but it doesn't beat being the person you want to be and the confidence that follows.
So if I'm ever ordered to slay a village I should pass the offer? Although wouldn't some people think that is griefing also?
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So if I'm ever ordered to slay a village I should pass the offer? Although wouldn't some people think that is griefing also?
If you slay a village on orders, you griefed the masses. If you disobey, you griefed your superior only. I guess it depends on how democratic you are. If someone ask me to murder a village for kicks I will pretend to obey and put an arrow in his back later, damn the consequence.
Or you could just tell him to go fight his fight himself.
No one will credit you, the town you saved won't even know you betrayed your superior to save them, you might even get cursed. But damn that. I follow my heart.
The one exception is if the village is in absolute iron crisis or some messed up shit like that. And the neighbouring town has buttloads. I would get someone or myself to ask nicely first, while we searched for iron, we will borrow a mound of iron.
If still no iron and no aid, I would rather send in thieves on horseback as second measure.
If that failed , Then I guess its them or us - I'm a pacifist but I do know, fight for survival is a thing.
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So if I'm ever ordered to slay a village I should pass the offer? Although wouldn't some people think that is griefing also?
My advice would be - if in doubt, don't do it.
If it feels wrong, don't do it.
If it feels right, do.
But if you do it, own it in the sense that you should make sure you'll be fine with consequences. Some may kill you as a baby or curse you if they find out. That too is part of the game, just as the ability to slay villages is part of the game.
And if the point of the game is to emulate the real world, then there is such a thing as war crimes in the real world.
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Chaos4Horseman wrote:So if I'm ever ordered to slay a village I should pass the offer? Although wouldn't some people think that is griefing also?
My advice would be - if in doubt, don't do it.
If it feels wrong, don't do it.
If it feels right, do.
But if you do it, own it in the sense that you should make sure you'll be fine with consequences. Some may kill you as a baby or curse you if they find out. That too is part of the game, just as the ability to slay villages is part of the game.
And if the point of the game is to emulate the real world, then there is such a thing as war crimes in the real world.
Funny I was in a village today and this one guy kept following me with a sword telling me to put it in my backpack. I kept telling him no and that I wasn't interested. Then next thing I knew I get hit with a bow from him, and cursed by eight (8) people... because I didn't "support my village". They just wanted to raid because they wanted to claim another village for thier own.
Guess I griefed them...
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Funny I was in a village today and this one guy kept following me with a sword telling me to put it in my backpack. I kept telling him no and that I wasn't interested. Then next thing I knew I get hit with a bow from him, and cursed by eight (8) people... because I didn't "support my village". They just wanted to raid because they wanted to claim another village for thier own.
Guess I griefed them...
Sounds like they're being jerks
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CatX wrote:Chaos4Horseman wrote:So if I'm ever ordered to slay a village I should pass the offer? Although wouldn't some people think that is griefing also?
My advice would be - if in doubt, don't do it.
If it feels wrong, don't do it.
If it feels right, do.
But if you do it, own it in the sense that you should make sure you'll be fine with consequences. Some may kill you as a baby or curse you if they find out. That too is part of the game, just as the ability to slay villages is part of the game.
And if the point of the game is to emulate the real world, then there is such a thing as war crimes in the real world.
Funny I was in a village today and this one guy kept following me with a sword telling me to put it in my backpack. I kept telling him no and that I wasn't interested. Then next thing I knew I get hit with a bow from him, and cursed by eight (8) people... because I didn't "support my village". They just wanted to raid because they wanted to claim another village for thier own.
Guess I griefed them...
Wait what? In my admittedly few 50 lives o have yet to run into a warmongering village . Guess you attract strife wherever you go *shrugs*
PS: Though, if enough people support a war effort in a village there might be a solid reasoning behind it. Sometimes , it's no so straightforward
Last edited by RodneyC86 (2019-06-13 22:20:42)
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well trust me i know, here and in game most people are hypocrites
i had a very high kill rate and i stil lhear bullshti from people who never ever played with me or plaed but didn't knew who i am
like 90% of games i play legit, don't kill anyone for no reason
not fully sure how was calculated, i had a whopping 30% kill rate per life
i think 30% of my lifes i had at least a kill
now if you focus on important stuff and try to keep a city alive and take down the ones who kill with no reason, you bump up like 20 kills a week daily 1-2 hours
sure i was trolling a few times and had crazy 20-25 kills mostly indirectly
i was also tested griefing without killing and no one gave a damn that i ruined things over and over
people are selfish and childish, and they curse for whatever, and reverse case they act all innocent
so regretting it wont mean a thing, they will always find some bullshit to hate you
ofc ruining nice things and killing others with zero explanation or reason is just dumb but i don't think you would enjoy doing it over and over
killing unsuspected victims is easy now with magic aim
back before when people could dodge, you wont go on a killing spree too fast as there were several good pvp players who could take you out
now it's all about bad intention
and cursing is so random, i seen jerks who destroy hours of work or drama queens munching berries and stealing stuff
very common that some mimoza curses some male player then all dumbfucks just repeat it
and also that someone kills everyone and they too young to curse
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Playing OHOL optimally is like cosplaying a cactus: stand still and don't waste the water.
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Hey all I've decided to use my griefing by stopping griefers.
Basically I catch them in an act, inform others to spy on them, and then I get them. So I practically grief the griefers.
I've had a kid once ask me where a bow was because they "wanted to hunt bears", I informed them there were no caves around us and he still said "better to be safe than sorry", I let him starve because I was certain he was a griefer.
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Hey all I've decided to use my griefing by stopping griefers.
That's great news! Good luck on defending the towns. Guards are always welcome. I'm usually too busy with compost or food production to pay much attention myself, so I'm glad there's people like you out there.
If you ever find people who want to fight bears, perhaps you can ask them to do what Pein captured on this screenshot: Build walls! I don't think it is necessary to build the wall all around the cave, it should be enough to place one wall directly in front of it. Stone walls become old walls which survive decay, so it's really a gift to future generations!
Screenshot: Pein
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Chaos4Horseman wrote:Hey all I've decided to use my griefing by stopping griefers.
That's great news! Good luck on defending the towns. Guards are always welcome. I'm usually too busy with compost or food production to pay much attention myself, so I'm glad there's people like you out there.
If you ever find people who want to fight bears, perhaps you can ask them to do what Pein captured on this screenshot: Build walls! I don't think it is necessary to build the wall all around the cave, it should be enough to place one wall directly in front of it. Stone walls become old walls which survive decay, so it's really a gift to future generations!
https://i.imgur.com/DI7GAIe.png
Screenshot: Pein
I'll think about that.
Sadly nobody in game taught me how to build. Large cities seem to be more about gardening, burying, hunting, or war.
I'll try it though when I figure it out.
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I was in one of the Cassidy villages today and a griefer came demanding a crown because some kid spammed the ill emotion in front of him so he had a bow and arrow ready to kill demanding a crown as "reimbursement".
He followed a baby girl around saying she'd go first until everyone died or he got the crown. When he was eating berries I grabbed his bow and killed him. I ended up getting cursed by eight people!
I got called a griefer for defending a baby girl! Next thing I know instead of being thankful, this dumb child threatens me with a knife to leave the village. I ended up living on the outskirts and she came at me demanding I moved further away...
I told her I didn't really know the area well, and she said "well then go die". I ended up going back into the village just to ignore her. She raised her kids to come harass me to leave because I "killed people".
When I tried explaining the whole situation to these kids they called me a "drama queen". I got fed up a bit and left the village again, but this time to build a arrow (there was a bow in the village) to kill her with to get back at her for the harassment. I waited until I was around 45-50 years in age and she was thus too old to have anymore kids. I shot her with the bow, and her kid was behind me already waiting to kill me before I got into the village (I had the bow in a backpack on my back, so shouldn't have been seen as a threat...)!
Three more people cursed me and I ended up in donkey town when I tried to play another life...
This is starting to make me wonder why I thought of giving up on griefing. Most villages seem to support the griefer because they're either incompetent, too trusting of the griefer, friends with the griefer, or too quick to learn from both sides.
I gave up and shut down my own troll group because I decided not to troll anymore, but this makes me wonder why I did it. I had more fun with trolling because I could easily convince anyone else that I was either killed by a griefer (the honest players), or make up a threat and they kill the person without asking.
I know how some griefing works and I usually killed a griefer before they did it. If a baby tries to touch weapons or medical equipment I autamatically thought they were griefers (I'd tell them not to touch that stuff first, and acted if I saw them do it again.). Other times if there is an argument I'd wait and here both sides and look for evidence of what happened, then act on it.
This though felt like the entire freaking village was full of griefers or idiots. I'm gonna give this another few days to see what I want to really do. At this rate I feel like griefing again because it seems more enjoying to play instead of actually being honest and getting cursed because I stop a griefer.
I ended up coming back to that village another life and wiping them out with 3 of my family members helping me. It felt very good getting back at them.
Anyways I hope you all have a nice day!
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