Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

Toxic · 2019-06-19 02:58:36

Recently the game just hasn't been fun, i wasn't here for sometime but now i come back and see a dieng game. Im not talking about the player count or anything that hasn't had any major declines although i do think less people are playing. What im here to say is that people who have been deeply invested in the game are slowly loosing interest. Im not an OG by any mean but i have played this game for months and i am deeply invested, i have also bought many accounts and i enjoyed the game.

But now more and more people are loosing interest with all these new things being added that are utterly useless and game breaking.
"I would rather have a balanced game rather then a realistic game" - Pein 2019

Now i came back and saw that Tarr had also left the server, i wasn't a huge fan or friend of tarr and he did have a hatred towards me.
But i still think he was a memorable member of the community even though as soon as i saw that he left i WAS LIKE HELL YEAH!
I thought about and concluded that if tarr who loved this game so much is loosing interest then what about new players.

Its what i always say to jasons games
GOOD IDEAD POOR EXECUTION
He has good dreams but does not know how to execute them properly.

Anyways i dont wanna get too emotional but i hope Jason fixed the game and players that the community knew and loved, theres too many too count the players who used to play this game are slowly leaving.

ANYWAYS GOODBYE

Bob 101 · 2019-06-19 03:08:09

I feel like Jason is in a state of denial atm.

Anytime anyone brings up any flaws Jason almost always throws a paragraph at them.

Anytime someone brings up lack of decent content he brings up "Ohhh, Theirs over 2000 Objokes in the game".

He just needs to do more enjoyable updates and old players would probably return.

Last edited by Bob 101 (2019-06-19 03:22:34)

Dantox · 2019-06-19 03:39:03

Bob 101 wrote:

I feel like Jason is in a state of denial atm.

Anytime anyone brings up any flaws Jason almost always throws a paragraph at them.

Anytime someone brings up lack of decent content he brings up "Ohhh, Theirs over 2000 Objokes in the game".

He just needs to do more enjoyable updates and old players would probably return.

Pff, what do you mean? havent you noticed that he has developed this "crazy engine" of his that cant do pretty much anything besides transitions?? we dont need oceans, we dont need a day or night time, hell, we dont even need trains or the ability to storage babies on a cart, we dont need any of that, i am better off with my swords and my will of ruining the day of someone else with a war because there is nothing else to do on a developed town, i think your problem is that you dont have 15 years of playing experience to see this rich dynamics that the game gives us in a natural and not at all forced way into us!

RodneyC86 · 2019-06-19 03:41:44

Dantox wrote:

Bob 101 wrote:
I feel like Jason is in a state of denial atm.

Anytime anyone brings up any flaws Jason almost always throws a paragraph at them.

Anytime someone brings up lack of decent content he brings up "Ohhh, Theirs over 2000 Objokes in the game".

He just needs to do more enjoyable updates and old players would probably return.

Pff, what do you mean? havent you noticed that he has developed this "crazy engine" of his that cant do pretty much anything besides transitions?? we dont need oceans, we dont need a day or night time, hell, we dont even need trains or the ability to storage babies on a cart, we dont need any of that, i am better off with my swords and my will of ruining the day of someone else with a war because there is nothing else to do on a developed town, i think your problem is that you dont have 15 years of playing experience to see this rich dynamics that the game gives us in a natural and not at all forced way into us!

Yeouch, these are weapons-grade comments.

I can't totally disagree though, since I joined, updates are mostly about getting us to fight each other.

wonder why he felt the need to make a unique engine in the first place though?

Lily · 2019-06-19 04:26:14

I get what you are saying but I disagree on one point. Jason pretty much does all the major things players want, eventually. If you want to be nice you would say he is a very deliberate designer, if you want to be less nice you could say he is a bit hard headed. Kind of like the recent update with the baskets and boxes. It was obvious a year ago we needed better containers and stuff and making baskets decay was a huge pain in a butt. Eventually though, he changed the baskets back and now we even got a new slot box, which no one even asked for but it a very nice bonus.

Pretty much any of the major problems I have seen, eventually got dealt with in some way or another. As for just adding content in general, he does that all the time. It is just no one update is going to be that massive, since he does them every week. If you could up all the changes added in say a 3 month period though, there is a ton of stuff.

InSpace · 2019-06-19 04:50:21

sees it's toxic who posted

instantly not take post seriously

futurebird · 2019-06-19 13:15:56

Toxic which recent changes do you think are making the game less fun?

jasonrohrer · 2019-06-20 04:21:30

RodneyC86 wrote:

wonder why he felt the need to make a unique engine in the first place though?

What existing engine would you suggest?

As far as I'm aware, there has never been an engine that supports the specific needs of this game (2D MMO with aging animations), not to mention an editor which allows rapid import of hand-drawn sprites and rapid interaction authoring with no coding (which is needed if I want to add 50 to 100 new things in a given week, to eventually meet the 10K object goal).

We might imagine there's some engine out there that just magically supports advanced features like "oceans," but I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist.

kittykatthegreat · 2019-06-20 17:39:34

jasonrohrer wrote:

RodneyC86 wrote:
wonder why he felt the need to make a unique engine in the first place though?
What existing engine would you suggest?
As far as I'm aware, there has never been an engine that supports the specific needs of this game (2D MMO with aging animations), not to mention an editor which allows rapid import of hand-drawn sprites and rapid interaction authoring with no coding (which is needed if I want to add 50 to 100 new things in a given week, to eventually meet the 10K object goal).
We might imagine there's some engine out there that just magically supports advanced features like "oceans," but I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist.

Have you tried unity? since its free to down load and use it wouldn't cost anything but time to see if it would work well for you. But then you would have to decide if actually going through and using it for your game would be worth them taking a chunk of your profit. I don't know much about programming but as far as I did get with unity i would assume that someone that knows how to program could easily set up a custom editor that would make updating the game quick and easy.

Sukallinen · 2019-06-20 17:56:27

No, please don't touch unity. Jason's made the engine and knows about it, doing stuff in someone elses engine is always a lot, a lot more testing for each and every thing added.
Also, if he has not used unity a lot, it'd also take time learning that, its bugs and whatnot - I'd rather see improvements to the game instead of using lot of time learning unity engine and its quirks (also how it can minimize stuff moving between server-client etc etc).

Last edited by Sukallinen (2019-06-20 17:57:13)

kittykatthegreat · 2019-06-20 18:19:02

Sukallinen wrote:

No, please don't touch unity. Jason's made the engine and knows about it, doing stuff in someone elses engine is always a lot, a lot more testing for each and every thing added.
Also, if he has not used unity a lot, it'd also take time learning that, its bugs and whatnot - I'd rather see improvements to the game instead of using lot of time learning unity engine and its quirks (also how it can minimize stuff moving between server-client etc etc).

It's just an option. It could be what he needs to be able to add interactive oceans and rivers to the game, it could be worse and be a waste of time. Unless you have messed around alot with programming I'm not sure how you have so much certainty that it would be that hard for him to look at it and figure it out. Some very popular games were made using unity.

jasonrohrer · 2019-06-20 18:24:31

Unfortunately, unity doesn't support oceans directly either.

It would always be something that would need to be programmed, in any engine.

Yes, lots of games are made with Unity, but the ones that have oceans essentially programmed them from scratch, inside unity.

It's a huge project, not matter what engine you use.

I do need to pick my battles. Keep in mind that I've already sunk four years of full-time work into this game. I need to be careful not to go crazy programming huge new systems into it at this point.

I mean, yeah, I could vanish for 2+ months and implement oceans. Meanwhile, no other progress or updates.

Sukallinen · 2019-06-21 10:14:06

kittykatthegreat wrote:

Unless you have messed around alot with programming

Yes, I have. Also do note I let you define what's "a lot".

Guppy · 2019-06-21 10:37:58

Back to the main point of this:

I do not think its necessarly bad to lost the "OG" players. Every game will get stale at some point, it is unrealistic to expect a single developer to keep a game exiting to play for many months on end.

As long as new players come to join us, they will eventually "take the place" of the others, that are quitting or just taking a break.

People complain this game becomes boring, but whenever jason brings big changes to stir up the game, the community gets their pitchforks ready and demands them to be reverted

Léonard · 2019-06-21 10:56:59

Guppy wrote:

People complain this game becomes boring, but whenever jason brings big changes to stir up the game, the community gets their pitchforks ready and demands them to be reverted

Take a minute to read this and let it sink in.

You say people complain about the game becoming boring which means you would expect them to like new updates.
Yet the opposite is true.

Could that mean that, maybe, oh gee I don't know, that the updates don't actually contribute in making the game any less boring?

Next thing you're going to tell us that war swords create rich dynamics?

Last edited by Léonard (2019-06-21 10:57:42)

Potjeh · 2019-06-21 11:23:24

Unity might not have a 2D terrain generator as stock feature, but the nice thing is you can find virtually anything in their store for <50$.

But still, changing terrain generator shouldn't take 2 months. I haven't looked at your code, but I'm guessing you heavily prioritize writing fast code over flexible code. I've noticed lots of OG devs just can't bring themselves to sacrifice CPU/memory efficiency and go full by-the-book OOP, but there's a reason why OOP is so popular these days.

Last edited by Potjeh (2019-06-21 11:31:54)

futurebird · 2019-06-21 11:34:47

I'm using unity for my first game because I'm really rusty with programming and unity is a good crutch, but I think I want to make my own engine for the next one. Unity kind of shapes what you can do and pushes you to making games with a certain feel. It's working OK for my current idea. But I think generally speaking making your own engine, if you have the skills will make the game cleaner and give you more control.

Potjeh · 2019-06-21 11:42:21

I've worked 4 years with Unity, and IMO it's very flexible, you can pick and choose what to use. I used my own physics and pathfinding, for example, and a guy I worked with wrote shaders. So I wouldn't agree it's stylistically limiting. One gripe I do have with it, tho, is it has god awful hiccups on garbage collection. I'm writing my own 2D engine now, and yeah it's kinda fun, but it's super time consuming and if your goal is to get an actual game out it's overkill in most cases (I'm just doing it for portfolio).

Guppy · 2019-06-21 12:02:10

Léonard wrote:

Guppy wrote:
People complain this game becomes boring, but whenever jason brings big changes to stir up the game, the community gets their pitchforks ready and demands them to be reverted
Take a minute to read this and let it sink in.
You say people complain about the game becoming boring which means you would expect them to like new updates.
Yet the opposite is true.
Could that mean that, maybe, oh gee I don't know, that the updates don't actually contribute in making the game any less boring?
Next thing you're going to tell us that war swords create rich dynamics?

No. Im not a big fan of the swords either.
All i said that it sometimes feels like people are getting bored, but dont want the game to actually change

Redram · 2019-06-21 12:31:20

I've been noticing the number of players on when I check has been dipping into the 70s of late, compared to what used to be 90s and 100s. So ya, there does seem to be attrition lately. Which would seem to be a bad trend for a game that requires other players to play. Unless most of that is driven by CCM. Since they still require game purchase (last I understood) if that were the case that would indicate a more steady state as far as game purchases I suppose, depending how many regular players they have. I question whether it really helps to fragment the community though. But then, I don't have the skills (or hubris) generated by 15 years of game development, so maybe I'm wrong. I can only say that I've decided to sit ohol out and wait for the next guy to do it better. Maybe the next guy will have 20 years of experience and forsee the benefits of things like tile interaction, or container variety, or actual useful tech progression.

CatX · 2019-06-21 12:45:37

I'm making my first little game in Godot, and so far I love it.

I have no opinions on whether it or Unity would have been better for OHOL though. I trust Jason's evaluation. It makes sense that building an engine from scratch makes it more suited to the specific purposes of the game.

I know the developer of Stardew Valley built his own engine, but that he recommends "something like Gamemaker" for people who are just starting making games. (Search for ConcernedApe in this thread: https://community.playstarbound.com/thr … ion.25210/ )

jord1990 · 2019-06-21 12:51:57

I can understand that some people still have a bad taste in their mouth. However if you look at the latest changes and additions I would say they are things people have been asking for. Jason even added a poll feature to see what people want.

So why doesnt everyone just chill for a bit instead of making RIP game or the dev is terrible threads 3 times a week? And give him some time to actually work between all the complaining?

Unless you want complain about floors now being the first thing when you put down stakes tho, or the fact that you can just keep clicking in the middle to cycle through.

sigmen4020 · 2019-06-21 12:52:37

Redram wrote:

I've been noticing the number of players on when I check has been dipping into the 70s of late, compared to what used to be 90s and 100s. So ya, there does seem to be attrition lately. Which would seem to be a bad trend for a game that requires other players to play. Unless most of that is driven by CCM. Since they still require game purchase (last I understood) if that were the case that would indicate a more steady state as far as game purchases I suppose, depending how many regular players they have. I question whether it really helps to fragment the community though. But then, I don't have the skills (or hubris) generated by 15 years of game development, so maybe I'm wrong. I can only say that I've decided to sit ohol out and wait for the next guy to do it better. Maybe the next guy will have 20 years of experience and forsee the benefits of things like tile interaction, or container variety, or actual useful tech progression.

I doubt that CCM is driving a significant amount of players from the main game. I've joined CCM more than five times, and there were only more than one person on once (and that was about the time where the thread was just started and it was the hot new thing). If it's driving so many people to it, why is basically noone actually playing it?

http://crucible.oho.life/reflector/serv … ion=report

See the 0 that's on that server for more than half the day. I doubt people would be buying the game just to play on an empty mod server.

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2019-06-21 12:55:25)

jasonrohrer · 2019-06-21 15:25:53

It's not just modifying the terrain generator to place oceans. That part is easy.

It's making oceans interactive.

Can you swim in them? Okay, that's different than walking. Which parts of your body are visible when you swim? The animation engine doesn't support "cutting off" part of an object. There might be some hack ways around that (like ribbons of ocean that you swim between), but there are huge visual problems there (popping between ribbons). There are ways to cut things off with stencils, but it's a big change to the fundamental assumptions of the engine (there are objects that are drawn in certain places, and they look the same no matter where they are, etc).

Next, can you make boats to traverse them?

The movement engine doesn't currently support limited areas for certain objects. When you "drive" a car, you're actually just holding it, like any other held object, and moving faster.

So... you'd be able to "sail" a boat across the land, without some very significant changes to the code. And getting out of the boat, and stepping onto the land, and jumping out of the boat to swim, etc.

And we're (hopefully) not just talking about a quick hack-job to get oceans working sorta, but actually doing it right. So that it looks good, and boat sailing feels good, etc.

It's easy to underestimate how much work is involved in a given change.

The poll system took two days, for example.

Maybe there's an off-the-shelf Unity solution for "oceans" that you can get from the Assets store. Yeah, like 3D oceans. I mean, how is that going to help add oceans to a 2D, hand-drawn game like OHOL?

dangergirl713 · 2019-06-21 16:47:19

We don't need oceans. We need further advancement in civilization like finally becoming a space city that's shown in the trailer. When I originally bought this game, it was about building a place strong enough so that your family could last for several generations or advancing civilization. But with the shift killing update, the long time you spend playing the game doing boring actions (grinding) can be totally wasted in two minutes by some griefer with a knife or war sword. I actually had several lives where I spend several minutes doing boring mundane actions like making compost or farming and it just being a total waste of time because a griefer killed all my kids or I died by RNG cause I had one girl and eight boys or no girls at all.

Your poll really should be on why people are using slash /die not how many lives should you limit people to. A majority of the times I /die is because I was born as a guy which is a total dead end to me cause I am an experienced player and I want to see how far my line can go. The only reason you would stay on as playing a man is if you want to craft some of the advance recipes like the plane or a car or a radio. I assume people are slash dying because they want to be in a certain family as well.

People grind in this game for only two reasons: to build a long lasting family line and to create civilization (town). Create some game mechanics to help us with this please.

Also, with the changes to how easy you can kill people now, I think we should be able to heal ourselves instead of having to rely on others. Make the crafting recipe for a self healing bandage as a wool pad with paper or a wool pad with sap/rubber-something that requires time so that it would take awhile for griefers to make if they have to. You would still have to use a needle and thread when wounded so that it would take up two spots in your backpack. Also the self healing bandage can be rendered useless if it gets dirty by touching the ground so you can't have a bajillion bandages on the ground to use when you are griefing. This would solve a lot of the issues with griefer killings since the village can heal itself and then go after the griefer as a group. Right now all a griefer has to do is steal the wool pads and then go around killing people.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-06-19 02:58:36

Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#2 2019-06-19 03:08:09

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#3 2019-06-19 03:39:03

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#4 2019-06-19 03:41:44

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#5 2019-06-19 04:26:14

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#6 2019-06-19 04:50:21

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#7 2019-06-19 13:15:56

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#8 2019-06-20 04:21:30

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#9 2019-06-20 17:39:34

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#10 2019-06-20 17:56:27

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#11 2019-06-20 18:19:02

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#12 2019-06-20 18:24:31

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#13 2019-06-21 10:14:06

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#14 2019-06-21 10:37:58

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#15 2019-06-21 10:56:59

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#16 2019-06-21 11:23:24

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#17 2019-06-21 11:34:47

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#18 2019-06-21 11:42:21

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#19 2019-06-21 12:02:10

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#20 2019-06-21 12:31:20

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#21 2019-06-21 12:45:37

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#22 2019-06-21 12:51:57

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#23 2019-06-21 12:52:37

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#24 2019-06-21 15:25:53

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

#25 2019-06-21 16:47:19

Re: Why I Think OHOL Has a Grim Future....... #RIP OG OHOL

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