Punishment Zone

Kamor · 2019-06-22 15:52:52

Implement a better rating system for players. At the moment you have only the curse system and this can also go in the wrong way, because missunderstandings of human beings.

The goal is to find griefers automated or half automated!

Record the players game on serversite, of course you need to limit this to some basic countings. It´s also wise to limit this to some few players.

Make a kind "EDO punishment zone." -> https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Punishment_zone

Of course you have no zone here, you have a player you will observe and punish, if he is doing bad things.

You can choose the player to observe randomly or trigger him by your cursesystem. You can also observe more or lesser players depending on your server ressources.

For example you can

Count : All Actions from the player in one live
Count : Player kills Player

This two basic counts give a first view of the player. Is he killing a lot of other players? Is he clicking like a workoholic or more chilling like a griefer. Of course you have also new and afk players, who produce less clickactions.

Next you could filter for productive action and non productive action. If a player pick up and drop the same item one hour this is of course non productive.

and so on ... (this is only the first step of an automated rating system)

Another way is to track the whole game of a player in punishzone, like you do on client site and show it to some players, who play the role of a court.

There are lots of steps to think, but first step is to choose a player and track or count him on serversite. Then you need to decide guilty or not guilty (automated or half automated). Finaly you need to do the punishment.

"The gods have observed you. They have decided : You are guilty. Next life you are cursed to live the life as a stone."

ollj · 2019-06-22 19:46:24

oh cursing has so many silly flaws.

unnamed players are immune to cursing, and this tempts them to grief and distress, till they get murdered or named.
dumb moms naming many (or all) their sony "myson"
cursing or revenge-murdering the wrong person, whos first three letters of the name where identical to a griefer, and they just happened to be in the same area. and babies may only be able to say the fiorst three letters.

Last edited by ollj (2019-06-22 19:46:57)

Kamor · 2019-06-22 23:12:56

yeah cursing by typing command and full name is worse. like you said : unnamed players, namemismatching, uncurseable names or longnames you can't curse the first half hour, because of missing input length. was only an idea to use the current curse system as trigger. but when you can easy target players, and stab or shot them, why you can´t easy target them to curse? you have left click, right click, shift click, you can easy implement a new key, like alt-ctrl-del combo (only joking). but should be easy to implement a keybased cursed trigger (?alt-c). could be also a new grafik pointing at the other. that´s client shit to make the cursing target process easier.

i think you can also track some very few values on each player without causing to much "server-drain", like the killcounter, to start the observation process of this player or do it random. there are lots of ways. if you find some possible "bad" guys, you can focus on them to observe more.

it´s -> suspicion -> observation -> analysis -> judgment

so step one is how to find possible bad guys? and current cursing system is nearest there.

Last edited by Kamor (2019-06-22 23:15:30)

pein · 2019-06-23 14:27:03

to be fair i could imagine a system where instead of cursing, you mark people
each life would need to be recorded and sent to server if anyone flags it within 1 hour ( same town or same family)

game records would be sent to 3-5? random volunteers
if they say that the person was a griefer, could get perma banned (killing lineages for no reason, blocking people inside building, ruining towns)

if the issue is like dirty talk or killing some people, could get warned
donkey town isn't bad but wont teach people nothing and doesn't really change behaviors

if people get warned a few times, then they could be losing max life count for a while
and perma banned
anything like racism, kills for no reason, thrash talking, stealing others stuff could be on this warning

ofc there is the framers, who provoke others then blame them, and the town echoes a verdict that no one checks
now i would punish false testimonies more than people who kill ocasionally
first of all to kill someone you need a necessary knowledge to do it (well with magic aims not that much than before) also generally people who work an entire life got a reason why they kill 8 year old kids who mess around with weapons
so to limit the reports, it would cost a life, which isn't a big deal but at least cost something

the judges need to be objective so it would be chosen from a pool of volunteers so no partiality. also the names shouldn't be visible to check them up
if 5 out of 5 people decide that the player was wrong, can get banned
if 3 or 4 out of 5 then warned
if no one thinks is an offense, the reporting player would get marked
if someone has many false reports then he himself gets into trouble for it

right now if multiple people curse you doesn't mean they right and if one player survives a lineage killer, doesn't mean it was no damage

the current client doesn't record games, and doesn't store it
also you can disable recording
also these stored files arent recordings, they are just following the inputs
for such a system would need a lot of changes

Sukallinen · 2019-06-23 16:54:20

I support pein ofc, but perma-ban isn't option in games eula. So DT can be used for the purpose of "almost perma-ban".

Also I'm against 5-ppl team once, it should be at least one warning. Also, someone'd need to check how many marks any single person makes, if marks everyone else he sees there's not much value to his markings, but if he makes, say, once a week/once every 10 hours ingame...

I thought client records all actions hence playback is possible (modded clients just don't playback well ((Edit:re-read, pein did say this))). But another can of worms, to pick that up from someone's computer-or to rely it is unchanged, nope. Server would have to record every action and remove them after one hour unless flagged (and I can see some griefers flagging every player as another way of griefing). So that would be large amount of data. But not hard to code I'd say.

But not seeing anything like this happening for a while, besides if you're doing diesel during several lives you can be seen hiding parts of engine (so they're safe until you continue) etc etc... Anyhow, I don't see a viable system.

Last edited by Sukallinen (2019-06-23 16:59:31)

Sukallinen · 2019-06-23 17:12:06

(this another issue so another post) - Fast'n cheap possibilities:

Cursing using mouse pointer (well, lag might be issue, but probably not-your client sends what your client sees hence cursing that ok).

Cursing using statement "curse murderer" -when you're hit with arrow or stabbed or such, will curse that person and say name in-game. Problems: at least snowball (if it doesn't kill any more), possibly others. Could define "curse my stabber" but then, you cannot curse while young. Cursing should (IMO as everything) be possible after, say, 3 years of life.

Marking cursed person (in addition to other consequences) with red aura for about 30(?) minutes of his in-game-time so others know to be careful next to this individual - after all irl you'll unconsciously see someone's hiding nasty stuff (well unless they're habitual mass murderer or spy or such).

I don't presume to even hazard how to change cursing effects... Besides having maybe one hour of DT/one curse removed from you per 30 hours or playingtime-that 30hrs (or whatever) would be decent since nobody plays that much without getting cursed. And also a problem, since killers of griefing player often gets cursed. I've always stayed next to griefing person and explained, I've been accepted about 90% of time, sometimes killed never been cursed. Not that I'm good at detecting griefers or playing either. (exception: another family suddenly killed my fam as team-effort:-yes I saw- I grew up from 3yo to older, planned and killed that other fam's all females, same they did to my fam). That game would probably not have marked me as griefer, got only one curse, by a female who wasn't even born when my fam was killed, I did not have enough time to explain it all to her. Anyone's interested, I killed Tea fam.

testo · 2019-06-23 18:07:46

Kamor wrote:

Implement a better rating system for players. At the moment you have only the curse system and this can also go in the wrong way, because missunderstandings of human beings.
The goal is to find griefers automated or half automated!
Record the players game on serversite, of course you need to limit this to some basic countings. It´s also wise to limit this to some few players.
Make a kind "EDO punishment zone." -> https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Punishment_zone
Of course you have no zone here, you have a player you will observe and punish, if he is doing bad things.
You can choose the player to observe randomly or trigger him by your cursesystem. You can also observe more or lesser players depending on your server ressources.
For example you can
Count : All Actions from the player in one live
Count : Player kills Player
This two basic counts give a first view of the player. Is he killing a lot of other players? Is he clicking like a workoholic or more chilling like a griefer. Of course you have also new and afk players, who produce less clickactions.
Next you could filter for productive action and non productive action. If a player pick up and drop the same item one hour this is of course non productive.
and so on ... (this is only the first step of an automated rating system)
Another way is to track the whole game of a player in punishzone, like you do on client site and show it to some players, who play the role of a court.
There are lots of steps to think, but first step is to choose a player and track or count him on serversite. Then you need to decide guilty or not guilty (automated or half automated). Finaly you need to do the punishment.
"The gods have observed you. They have decided : You are guilty. Next life you are cursed to live the life as a stone."

So you are proposing an outside game court? People that use their own time outside the game to review other peoples action in-game and decide if they are guilty of foul play and need a punishment in-game?

Kamor · 2019-06-23 21:05:27

testo wrote:

So you are proposing an outside game court? People that use their own time outside the game to review other peoples action in-game and decide if they are guilty of foul play and need a punishment in-game?

This was only one optional idea. First is to mark targets. Then observing (recording) some data of this players. Third is to analyse this data. You can do this automated with a good logic build. But to build such a logic is hard and you need to analyse the collected data first to find average and max values to calculate a kind of threshold and crosscomparing. The idea to send full game records to a kind of a court should be more on problem situation to adjust the automated system or when players declare, that they are innoncent. Or for a fun public forum roleplay projekt, where all can see the "replay" and can watch the public executation of a griefer (anonymus).

But more interesting is to find a kind of automated logic, which can find griefers! Thats the goal of this idea. It´s not easy, but easier than to code the process of driving a car.

Last edited by Kamor (2019-06-23 21:09:59)

Sukallinen · 2019-06-24 02:14:11

No, it is not easier than programming autonomous car. I was in team building one that drove w/o driver in driver's or any other seat in 1989. Yet, we still don't have self-driving cars (well, it did drive, but insurances for such a car would be impossible even today to implement).

Also, programming was rather hard. It did drive 50km/h and had GPS, if either GPS cut (satellites or our local delta-it's been removed since anyone could remove that 100m or so difference in location that was originally in GPS) it'd stop. Or if a camera saw movement in front of it. Roads were public ones, nobody just, umm, remembered to ask anyone if it is legal since there was no law against it.

Don't even imagine it would be possible to program, even if it doesn't need to be foolproof in this game. Yes, getting people to watch other peoples games (picking ppl in random) is a griefer heaven-who else would LOVE to judge others ? I know what I typed above, but in actuality I don't see any way to do this either (or the cases I wrote above you chose not to comment on).

Kamor · 2019-06-24 11:10:03

i do this "pseudo code" here
you need a simple bool to flag a player, of course you can use a counter to have some kind of threshold. it´s like the curent curse.

if curse_counter>curse_threshold do extra coding to this player

track every command it´s a simple "storing the commands of this player in a list", to avoid to waste more serverressources you send it to an extern server, where this data is stored

so this is one more command
you send a copy of the incoming client command to the observing server if player is "observeflaged"

now you can analyse the data from an extern position, and there you can flag the players for a punishment

so you need one more command on server to check the punishflag

its 3 lines of code to make it work on serversite.

And now the car. This was a metaphor to say it´s not impossible. There are always people say it´s not possible, till the moment someone shows it´s possible.

it´s only a logic, not more.

as is said before you need first to analyse the data, easiest way is to make some counts.

before i can go more on the logic, i need the data. i said it before. So we have 3 from 4 steps finished. Programming a black intelligence is harder than this stupid ai-logic. And yeah curent ai for cars sucks at some point, but the logic there is really more work then this shit here.

Last edited by Kamor (2019-06-24 18:56:35)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-06-22 15:52:52

Punishment Zone

#2 2019-06-22 19:46:24

Re: Punishment Zone

#3 2019-06-22 23:12:56

Re: Punishment Zone

#4 2019-06-23 14:27:03

Re: Punishment Zone

#5 2019-06-23 16:54:20

Re: Punishment Zone

#6 2019-06-23 17:12:06

Re: Punishment Zone

#7 2019-06-23 18:07:46

Re: Punishment Zone

#8 2019-06-23 21:05:27

Re: Punishment Zone

#9 2019-06-24 02:14:11

Re: Punishment Zone

#10 2019-06-24 11:10:03

Re: Punishment Zone

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