[Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

Wuatduhf · 2019-06-27 19:53:49

Jason and many others have commented that villages are mostly the same, and that cultures don't survive long enough to have a significant impact in the villages that can appear.

My comment spurs from a brief conversation in discord, about the varied experiences people have had seeing/being crownbearers, and that raised a thought. What if a family could have 1 King and 1 Queen that aged slower than everyone else?

The concept seems simple (but I couldn't tell you how the coding would look). What if each Village/Lineage could have at most 1 Male and 1 Female be able to wear a crown and experience slower aging? A year would take 4, or even 8, minutes instead of the standard 60 seconds. "The Monarchy" oversaw their societies, and ultimately were the ones to create policies and to maintain/enforce the culture. Could 2 players surviving longer than the average villager be the difference needed in seeing the generations continue in "the right direction"?

Side notes:

1) A comment on the 'aging' process; since the idea would be to just "slow" aging, the crown wouldn't effectively extend your lifetime for the full hour; you would take longer to reach Age 3/13, and your elder years would be painfully food-dependent too.

2) Whoever had the crown should probably have a 'glow' above them, indicating that they are the ones receiving the slow aging.

MultiLife · 2019-06-27 20:49:35

I think this is unnecessarily magical thing to add.

Problem: culture doesn't persist. Why?
- there is nothing worth passing on. Notes are rarely done and don't have much use anyways, they turn to clutter.
- there is no time for culture. We are constantly fighting impending doom wherever we are in generations.
- there are no options or freedom to create something worthwhile. Nothing epic and unique that'd be worth the effort while providing something gameplay related.
- everything takes time and things die before something of relevance has come to existence. Lives are brief and due to that we can't really evolve a communal culture per town.

Of course, what we expect from "culture" in OHOL can vary per person.

But anyways, I don't really like that some would just live longer unless they earned it by playing skillfully and wanting to have a long life. I have no interest in giving some random such power. Ofc if we get healthy foods and sort of "commander/organizer" job they would naturally evolve into monarchy that people would happily keep alive and healthy.

The_Anabaptist · 2019-06-27 22:03:08

If you want to turn the game into "kill the carrier", then implement this idea. I'm sure the crown will rest easy on your head for all of a couple seconds before a greedy relative kills you for it.

The_Anabaptist

Jojigirl · 2019-06-27 22:04:52

Nobody would want the crown.. They would almost always get killed by the few wanting that perk.. Which in turn would create town massacres. The wrong group of people in one town could end that family very quickly for a crown. It would make it hard to keep the family from dying out.

Spoonwood · 2019-06-27 23:27:02

Simpler solution to the problem of crowns: remove them from the game.

Same goes for counter-productive items like so-called 'war' swords, and property gates.

I mean Jason understands the game on bigserver2 and how people act, right? So, him not removing those items just goes to show that he doesn't care too much about people playing for their lineages.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-06-27 23:27:18)

testo · 2019-06-27 23:51:18

What culture? Theres none. Theres more game culture outside the game (discord, forums) than "in" the game.

RodneyC86 · 2019-06-28 01:35:31

Expecting a culture in a group of creatures with one hour life span is ridiculousa

arkajalka · 2019-06-28 09:28:07

I like the idea of trying to find ways to diverse as cultures, but this system has serious flaws imo.
-Longer lifespan than double (120years) would not make any sense by the aging system.
-Perks and unique achievable buffs via one item support grieff killing for it. (-->murders create tension and drama and wipe the culture)
-People trying to force a "culture" in the civ usually dont work and just talk and rp (-->starvation)
-Theres seriously not that many out of the box ideas worth preserving, just some facepalmy no work just talk roleplayers cringy enforced idea of "we are XXX(add item/creature/etc) cult"

Google "Define culture" and you get these:

1. the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.

2. the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society.

This idea would only cover narrow part of forming culture. If you want to create somekinda real culture imo you have to really enforce and focus on all of these aspects not just have a crown and bable at the town center like a paracite leeching of society. You can pass culture via written language, but if there's nothing worth presserving it won't happen no matter how hard you try. First you have to create something that brings people together in trying to preserve it.

Last edited by arkajalka (2019-06-28 09:36:00)

Bob 101 · 2019-06-28 12:20:03

I don't think culture is really possible, Only game wide stuff.

But I do think crowns should have some use. Instead of slower aging we could have increased charecter limits. Any adult crown wearer can speak like an elder.

Last edited by Bob 101 (2019-06-28 12:30:16)

arkajalka · 2019-06-28 12:33:07

Bob 101 wrote:

I don't think culture is really possible, Only game wide stuff.

But I do think crowns should have some use. Instead of slower aging we could have increased charecter limits. Any adult crown wearer can speak like an elder.

Dibs for this. Main issue in communicating in this game is that you can "speak" so little. It's a serious effort to even talk about anything whilst controlling your hunger and tending food sources. Unless you are in a megalopolis where you dont have anything else to do than talk.

JonySky · 2019-06-28 12:43:33

testo wrote:

What culture? Theres none. Theres more game culture outside the game (discord, forums) than "in" the game.

TRUE!
Simple to understand, there is no culture, in OHOL culture does not exist.

Currently the community performs role plays with various rituals, sacrifices, crowns, etc ... but there is no mechanics in the game that accompanies this practice, they are only ROL games that some players have in their heads ... just that.

when these players die, these rituals, kings, sacrifices, etc also die ...

Currently when someone sees a "KING" in OHOL ... he does not see a real king ... he is seeing another player with a crown ... another player who deserves to die ... just that.
because there is nothing that grants anything special to that player ... it's just one more with a crown on top of his head ...

because the sacrifices can not endure more than 2 generations as much?
because they do not contribute anything, it's just a role play in the minds of 2 or several people.

I think something similar to some OHOL objects happens ... that nobody creates them because they do not contribute anything (an airplane, for example)

Jason has made it very clear that he does not like the ROL game.

But I think that distributing on the map some SUPER-OBJECTS such as: relics, amulets, magic objects ... etc .. (with purposes and with visible benefits !!!) will allow enriching the culture between generations, the battles to get unique objects, traditions, etc ...

Last edited by JonySky (2019-06-28 12:47:59)

arkajalka · 2019-06-28 12:55:41

Unique hard to achieve objects would be really sweet. They dont need to have any buffs or usages, just plain and simple eye candy and a token of tedious task. Would bring some meaning to the "end game".

I mean useless decorations, gold jewelry and all kinda fabulous objects have been there as long as we have had civilizations. Representing the leaders power and wealth / display civilizations skillsets and objects of worship. As civilizations advance you have to spend less time on just surviving and tending the agrculture. Providing you with a cluster of free time which gave us all these world wonders, philosophy and inventions that push mankind forward.

JonySky · 2019-06-28 12:58:51

arkajalka wrote:

Unique hard to achieve objects would be really sweet. They dont need to have any buffs or usages, just plain and simple eye candy and a token of tedious task. Would bring some meaning to the "end game".
I mean useless decorations, gold jewelry and all kinda fabulous objects have been there as long as we have had civilizations. Representing the leaders power and wealth / display civilizations skillsets and objects of worship. As civilizations advance you have to spend less time on just surviving and tending the agrculture. Providing you with a cluster of free time which gave us all these world wonders, philosophy and inventions that push mankind forward.

If the object is useless ... we have a crown again ...
if it does not help, the only thing we will get is another artificial rolplay

but I also support the idea of having items such as necklaces, bracelets, body painting, etc ... to differentiate between us

Last edited by JonySky (2019-06-28 13:00:06)

arkajalka · 2019-06-28 13:14:03

JonySky wrote:

arkajalka wrote:
Unique hard to achieve objects would be really sweet. They dont need to have any buffs or usages, just plain and simple eye candy and a token of tedious task. Would bring some meaning to the "end game".
I mean useless decorations, gold jewelry and all kinda fabulous objects have been there as long as we have had civilizations. Representing the leaders power and wealth / display civilizations skillsets and objects of worship. As civilizations advance you have to spend less time on just surviving and tending the agrculture. Providing you with a cluster of free time which gave us all these world wonders, philosophy and inventions that push mankind forward.
If the object is useless ... we have a crown again ...
if it does not help, the only thing we will get is another artificial rolplay
but I also support the idea of having items such as necklaces, bracelets, body painting, etc ... to differentiate between us

The main problem in objects having buffs is that people go berserk for them. Instead of pushing the civ forwards it just creates tons of drama and propels the civ in to selfcaused mass genocide.

If you add buffs to the "artifacts" the buffs should be area of effect/ shortcut to a tedious common job, not individual.

Lets say things like:

Never ending fire/spark (start a fire without hassle)
Sheep bone statue (pile sheep bones easily to a huge statue)
Boost for farm cycle (crops grow faster)
Hammer of paveing (insta floor stones/lumber/roads without stackes and stone)
Wishing well (fountain that is capable of holding serious amounts of water, maybe even give buffs with gold ingot thrown into it)
Storm forge (a forge that can be loaded with huge amounts of coal and burns really long to eaze smithing)

Well the list is endless, but i bet you get the point.

Karrots · 2019-06-28 13:58:43

Sounds like a nice mod, but not really a great fit for the real game.

71 · 2019-06-28 17:58:14

I posted an idea a while back on Steam about how one might have non-item-based culture across multiple generations using an oral traditions system.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/595690/d … 033540475/

In brief, the system consists of three stages.
1) Old, high yum characters can /compose multi-line messages.
2) The composer or any other adult who has learned the message (see 3) can /recite it verbatim at any time for anyone nearby to hear.
3) Anyone (even babies) in range for at least half of the recited lines automatically learns the entire message. The maximum number of messages that can be learned is tied to your max lifetime yum bonus, so well-fed villages have greater access to the system.

What one chooses to /compose and /recite is purely player determined. It can be crafting info, important map directions, names of ancestors, stories of great battles, memes, or anything else you can think up. Since each player has influence over what is /composed and /recited, ideally only the most useful and/or interesting stuff persists across several generations.

The hope was it would accomplish several objectives simultaneously including: (1) making each village feel distinct, (2) giving old characters something productive to do before they pass on, (3) allow males a way to possibly have a meaningful legacy (especially if the genealogy tree allowed tracking oral traditions passed down), and (4) give a easy way to pass on useful information to babies and/or new players.

testo · 2019-06-28 22:32:45

JonySky wrote:

testo wrote:
What culture? Theres none. Theres more game culture outside the game (discord, forums) than "in" the game.

TRUE!
Simple to understand, there is no culture, in OHOL culture does not exist.
Currently the community performs role plays with various rituals, sacrifices, crowns, etc ... but there is no mechanics in the game that accompanies this practice, they are only ROL games that some players have in their heads ... just that.
when these players die, these rituals, kings, sacrifices, etc also die ...
Currently when someone sees a "KING" in OHOL ... he does not see a real king ... he is seeing another player with a crown ... another player who deserves to die ... just that.
because there is nothing that grants anything special to that player ... it's just one more with a crown on top of his head ...

because the sacrifices can not endure more than 2 generations as much?
because they do not contribute anything, it's just a role play in the minds of 2 or several people.
I think something similar to some OHOL objects happens ... that nobody creates them because they do not contribute anything (an airplane, for example)
Jason has made it very clear that he does not like the ROL game.
But I think that distributing on the map some SUPER-OBJECTS such as: relics, amulets, magic objects ... etc .. (with purposes and with visible benefits !!!) will allow enriching the culture between generations, the battles to get unique objects, traditions, etc ...

I like that idea about super objets. I had thought something similar but in the line of crafting items and buildings, that could give special rewards to the town they are built in or kept.

LittleFire · 2019-06-29 00:13:11

Ok, if this happened, make their text yellow so they can be identified

ollj · 2019-06-29 09:10:10

the culture of a town is strongly defined by nearby biomes and the material of its animal pen. southern adobe animal penn wals are good spots for a bakery. property-fenche pens have a shorter life span, resulting in more escaped animals over time, which makes for different lifestyles.
the culture of a town is mostly defined by its road network, and possibvle connections to nearby towns/ruins.
it limits mostly the number of baskets, gooses and eggs, and the utility of carts.

bear/iron rich cities definitely have a different play style.
jungle biomes cause more nudit and less cloth than snow biomes, with easy ascces to many furs, and more need for furs.
the access to rabbits and wild berries definitely affects a towns style.

great towns manage to incooperate blocking items, that can not even be destroyed or moved onto into a wall segment of an animal pen.
the best one of those is a rabbit hole. the second best of those are bear caves.
rabbit holes and bear caves make awesome animal pen walls.

Last edited by ollj (2019-06-29 09:11:39)

Spiegel · 2019-06-29 14:28:50

71 wrote:

I posted an idea a while back on Steam about how one might have non-item-based culture across multiple generations using an oral traditions system.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/595690/d … 033540475/
In brief, the system consists of three stages.
1) Old, high yum characters can /compose multi-line messages.
2) The composer or any other adult who has learned the message (see 3) can /recite it verbatim at any time for anyone nearby to hear.
3) Anyone (even babies) in range for at least half of the recited lines automatically learns the entire message. The maximum number of messages that can be learned is tied to your max lifetime yum bonus, so well-fed villages have greater access to the system.
What one chooses to /compose and /recite is purely player determined. It can be crafting info, important map directions, names of ancestors, stories of great battles, memes, or anything else you can think up. Since each player has influence over what is /composed and /recited, ideally only the most useful and/or interesting stuff persists across several generations.
The hope was it would accomplish several objectives simultaneously including: (1) making each village feel distinct, (2) giving old characters something productive to do before they pass on, (3) allow males a way to possibly have a meaningful legacy (especially if the genealogy tree allowed tracking oral traditions passed down), and (4) give a easy way to pass on useful information to babies and/or new players.

This sounds pretty cool and/or smart.

MultiLife · 2019-06-29 16:07:31

LittleFire wrote:

Ok, if this happened, make their text yellow so they can be identified

Yellow text on white speech bubble? Slow down, Satan.

HopeOnARope · 2019-06-30 04:23:35

I have become bored of the game a bit. The game is too short to create much meaning. Also, family members don’t have unique qualities and traits. Apparently, it’s too much to update? Also, if I do run into a unique and compelling scenario..it’s over too quickly.

This game has many objects to craft and technological challenges which are much more important than character development (apparently).

I dunno. I’m sort of over it and I wish it wasn’t so.

testo · 2019-06-30 08:26:25

HopeOnARope wrote:

I have become bored of the game a bit. The game is too short to create much meaning. Also, family members don’t have unique qualities and traits. Apparently, it’s too much to update? Also, if I do run into a unique and compelling scenario..it’s over too quickly.
This game has many objects to craft and technological challenges which are much more important than character development (apparently).
I dunno. I’m sort of over it and I wish it wasn’t so.

Welcome to the group sir. However, you got that last part wrong: technological challenges are very few and also meaningless since the only real needed tech is engine for a water pump. There are many tech objets in the game but most of them are part of other objects that are just decorative.

MultiLife · 2019-06-30 17:46:57

testo wrote:

HopeOnARope wrote:
I have become bored of the game a bit. The game is too short to create much meaning. Also, family members don’t have unique qualities and traits. Apparently, it’s too much to update? Also, if I do run into a unique and compelling scenario..it’s over too quickly.
This game has many objects to craft and technological challenges which are much more important than character development (apparently).
I dunno. I’m sort of over it and I wish it wasn’t so.
Welcome to the group sir. However, you got that last part wrong: technological challenges are very few and also meaningless since the only real needed tech is engine for a water pump. There are many tech objets in the game but most of them are part of other objects that are just decorative.

Just had a frustrating life which made me feel like I don't want to play for a while again. Let's summarize it: exhausted well, lots of new people around.
Like nearly every life I have had, it was a basic town with no water, no tarry spot, no kerosene, no oil, no diesel engine, no iron, no pumps. Just lots and lots of people. Any steel there was disappeared to tools as some cringy roleplay was going on, then we get a bear attack as newbies try to plant more berry bushes...
Then there was me, carrying milkweed seeds to town, planting them, trying to prevent newbies from making a huge berry field, making kindling for the engine, then being distracted by the bear so I couldn't do anything engine/water related, instead running around making arrows which slows down everything I'd rather be doing, like making path to tarry and getting parts done. I was fighting too many forces, again. It felt so futile. And then it started to feel meaningless. Just another lineage at the breaking point of "no water, no engine". And then I never get to make one, as it takes like two lives to do or something? And I'm again in the loop of "in order to get this, I need this resource, which is gone again, and now I need to get that too". Tiresome.
Wouldn't be surprised if we had a griefer hiding bowls, steel, food and tools. I had to make a hatchet and then axe. Then those disappeared too.

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-06-30 17:51:26)

71 · 2019-06-30 19:57:18

MultiLife wrote:

...And I'm again in the loop of "in order to get this, I need this resource, which is gone again, and now I need to get that too". Tiresome.

I think what really needs to be done for the sake of the tech tree and for the sake of enabling more teamwork and culture, is creating the ability to have multiple characters pulling/pushing/lifting the same object at once. For a real-life example see the ancient Egyptian sled-pulling team:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ … A9tep2.jpg

If getting enough people together and working on the same project at one time was the primary rate limiting factor in terms of construction and technological advancement, Jason wouldn't have to rely so heavily on tedium and resource scarcity to slow progress. It also means you're spending far more time side-by-side in a cooperative manner with other players and have a chance to actually socialize and accomplish something together.

Assuming most of these sort of 'teamwork' projects only needs one person to actually direct movements and everyone else is just providing dumb labor, it ends up being new player friendly. Most of the team is just letting their character be controlled by the lead character so they're free to ask questions and learn how things go together to make something useful. There would also be a lot more of experienced players actively seeking out others to help them do something, whereas now, I don't think I've ever had someone walk up to me and ask me to help them do something. This creates an informal currency of favor trading which is the bedrock of any good community.

Even with the simplest form of this sort of project of just dragging huge boulders or blocks around, you end up creating the opportunity for custom Stonehenge-style religious sites or massive stone temples that dozens if not hundreds of characters helped create and is inherently resistant to griefer destruction.

----

I do realize what I'm describing would likely not be simple to code, or it would already exist, but I do still think it would be worth putting in a few months of work to make it happen. The cumulative impact of bringing people together to work on a common task (as opposed to separate, parallel tasks) shouldn't be underestimated.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-06-27 19:53:49

[Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#2 2019-06-27 20:49:35

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#3 2019-06-27 22:03:08

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#4 2019-06-27 22:04:52

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#5 2019-06-27 23:27:02

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#6 2019-06-27 23:51:18

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#7 2019-06-28 01:35:31

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#8 2019-06-28 09:28:07

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#9 2019-06-28 12:20:03

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#10 2019-06-28 12:33:07

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#11 2019-06-28 12:43:33

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#12 2019-06-28 12:55:41

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#13 2019-06-28 12:58:51

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#14 2019-06-28 13:14:03

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#15 2019-06-28 13:58:43

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#16 2019-06-28 17:58:14

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#17 2019-06-28 22:32:45

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#18 2019-06-29 00:13:11

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#19 2019-06-29 09:10:10

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#20 2019-06-29 14:28:50

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#21 2019-06-29 16:07:31

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#22 2019-06-30 04:23:35

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#23 2019-06-30 08:26:25

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#24 2019-06-30 17:46:57

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

#25 2019-06-30 19:57:18

Re: [Problem] Culture doesn't persist; what if Kings and Queens aged slow?

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