Broke the game again Jason.

Morti · 2019-07-20 20:39:24

Looking into understanding this 'new' heat grid, and what ideas Jason might have gotten from this Thermalsim, I noticed the heat grid has been increased from 8x8 to 13x13.

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … ngeLog.txt

Version 231 2019-May-23...
--Improved thermal model for buildings. Now using a 13x13 heat grid instead of
8x8, to support larger buildings. We now detect a binary indoor/outdoor
property for each player, based on being completely surrounded by walls,
floors, and closed doors. If indoors, the effect of a cold environment is
halved, and the effect of clothing to protect from cold environments is
doubled.

So, no more saying 9x9 buildings with that 7x7 floorplan is the perfect size for that symmetric door look.

Instead we could be going with 15x15 walls with 13x13 floors.

That's almost big enough to have a bakery, medic, nursery AND a smithy, all in one building.
Or just a nursery, bakery and medic with a good amount of space for food and clothing storage.

If you want doorless buildings you have to make a little tetris Z shaped hallway to make sure temperature grid is blocked properly so there isn't a heat leak.

Like that? Do you know how that works? Why it works?
I couldn't find it looking on github, searching, once again, for terms like heat, temp, and the other 'code words' associated with them. Maybe it's rFloorGrid, maybe it's in the formula for int j, I don't know.

testo · 2019-07-20 20:42:02

Tarr wrote:

Morti wrote:
Tarr wrote:
You gotta remember that you are:
Still withing the fires radius thus getting it's passive heat bonus in that picture
Wearing some of the warmest clothes in game minus the hat.
So I doubt in the last patch for buffing buildings did anything to fix that but I can always double check when I get a second.
What I did not get a screenshot of or mention yet, is that I removed all my clothing and walked through the walls.
I was most certainly warmer on the inside of them than I was on the outside, but I am not certain if that is because I was only within the radius of the fire itself, if the floor and walls just gave me a bonus, or if, as I suspect, the walls did may the space inside act as a room and I gained that additional bonus.
I wanted the room to be larger, but I wanted it fully floored and the snow banks and ice holes, made me realize a little too late that I hadn't planned properly. But it was my first attempt last night, and from experience alone, I think it was a success.
Can confirm now that I've checked that it's just you in the radius of the fire which is what is giving you the extra temperature. I should of just assumed that when seeing the spacing between walls but the last time he updated buildings was during a time of hiatus for me.
If you want doorless buildings you have to make a little tetris Z shaped hallway to make sure temperature grid is blocked properly so there isn't a heat leak.

I don´t understand about the tetris Z shaped hallway. Could you please be more specific? It is Z shaped inside? Are you still using corner walls? I am interested in doorless buildings.

Tarr · 2019-07-20 21:11:27

Morti wrote:

Looking into understanding this 'new' heat grid, and what ideas Jason might have gotten from this Thermalsim, I noticed the heat grid has been increased from 8x8 to 13x13.
https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … ngeLog.txt
Version 231 2019-May-23...
--Improved thermal model for buildings. Now using a 13x13 heat grid instead of
8x8, to support larger buildings. We now detect a binary indoor/outdoor
property for each player, based on being completely surrounded by walls,
floors, and closed doors. If indoors, the effect of a cold environment is
halved, and the effect of clothing to protect from cold environments is
doubled.
So, no more saying 9x9 buildings with that 7x7 floorplan is the perfect size for that symmetric door look.
https://i.imgur.com/gRy2qoT.png
Instead we could be going with 15x15 walls with 13x13 floors.

https://i.imgur.com/nWDfUPP.png
That's almost big enough to have a bakery, medic, nursery AND a smithy, all in one building.
Or just a nursery, bakery and medic with a good amount of space for food and clothing storage.

If you want doorless buildings you have to make a little tetris Z shaped hallway to make sure temperature grid is blocked properly so there isn't a heat leak.
https://i.imgur.com/yDFDhxo.png
Like that? Do you know how that works? Why it works?
I couldn't find it looking on github, searching, once again, for terms like heat, temp, and the other 'code words' associated with them. Maybe it's rFloorGrid, maybe it's in the formula for int j, I don't know.

The problem is while he extended the heat grid to try to allow bigger rooms it's still centered on the player thus leaving anything bigger than the classic 7x7 room will create cold pockets within the room which sort of defeats the purpose of creating bigger rooms. The Tetris Z's work because it's the heat grid is always enclosed (except within the hallway itself so you'll have an enclosed environment without having to constantly open and shut doors which would lower the rooms temperature.

Looking at the image might be a little confusing but without overloading it with a bunch of colors but ideally wherever you stand in the room (minus the hallways of course) the heat grid will run into one of the blocks as demonstrated by the slightly darker boxes reaching a gray tile or wall. The only spot on a building a tetris door CANNOT go is the corner as this will fail to produce a blocked grid somewhere within the room. 7x7 rooms are by default the best way to build rooms for a area with doors but depending on how many entrances you're going to do the room needs to be 5x5 or 5x6 so the hallways isn't too far out which causes cold spots within the room. I am almost certain even a room shaped like this would end up working due to how the heat grid works and as such I'll give it a little test whenever I get some free time today.

The game only cares that there's a wall somewhere to block the out the grid and not that the area around it is also blocked.

testo wrote:

I don´t understand about the tetris Z shaped hallway. Could you please be more specific? It is Z shaped inside? Are you still using corner walls? I am interested in doorless buildings.

Hopefully the color coding shows why the hallways work. It's basically the heat grid being blocked by the hallways exits (though the hallways will remain cold due to failing the grid test unlike the center of the room.

Last edited by Tarr (2019-07-20 21:13:49)

ollj · 2019-07-20 22:08:48

if you surround a smithy with walls, someone will make enough locks to lock it all up, thus dooming the city to decay.

Morti · 2019-07-20 22:11:19

Let me see if I understand you correctly.

So, the only places in a 9x9 like this, that would count as being 'indoors' would be the 16 tiles in the 4 2x2s?

Then, a 7x7 with 'sheep pen corners' would all be indoors except for the 4 inside corner tiles, due to the tiles 7 away outside the opposite corners?

Tarr · 2019-07-20 22:17:47

Morti wrote:

Let me see if I understand you correctly.
https://i.imgur.com/RmQhP05.png
So, the only places in a 9x9 like this, that would count as being 'indoors' would be the 16 tiles in the 4 2x2s?
https://i.imgur.com/30tYm8Z.png
Then, a 7x7 with 'sheep pen corners' would all be indoors except for the 4 inside corner tiles, due to the tiles 7 away outside the opposite corners?

After testing I don't actually even think it's possible anymore due to him expanding out the heat grid along with some other changes. Previously how it worked it would just check for the edges of a wall being within the grid and as long as tiles were being blocked (like I showed in the colored picture) the game would give you the bonus cooling in a hot biome. Trying any of this in a cold biome both failed to keep the center warm (unless doors were added to the Z areas and even then within a 6x6 room the corners were cold.

Will try again with a hot biome building to check it out but rooms pretty much need doors + to be small or you get cold spots in anything too big.

Morti · 2019-07-21 00:00:28

5x5s are just not practical, in my opinion.
Just far too small, can't justify the ratio of wall tiles to floor space taken from the town, increasing travel times and potentially causing death by starvation due to increased pathing times.
Maybe a door is a must somewhere along those rays that branch out from all tiles within the players heat grid?
I'm not real big on making buildings as is, but anywhere we can take the pressure off people to consume food and every other resource in the process, is a good one.

This is another reason why I'm not a big fan of radical changes to the game mechanics.

"We here at the International Chess Association have decided that the Knight, based on the implication of the piece as a rider on a horse, should move more spaces. Therefore these will be the spaces the Knight is allowed to move."

"Also, castles don't move at all anymore. Thanks for playing."

Jason on the Playground.

Kid 1: You're it! I got you, you're it.
Jason: Nuh uh, you touched my shirt, you didn't touch me.
Kid 1: You can't just go changing rules like that.
Jason: Well, my shirt is not me. But let's just for the sake of argument say you are right and that you can make someone it by applying pressure to their skin by any sort of medium.
Kid 1: OK, fine, whatever, you're still it.
Jason: Okay.

30 seconds later
Jason: 28, 29, 30. Ready or not, here I come. AHHHH! You're all it. You're all it, I got you, you;re all it.

Kid 1: What are you talking about?
Jason: I touched you by your ear, with my throat.
Kid 1: ...

Kid 2: Look, if you don't like playing tag, go make your own games.
Jason: Fine, I will.

Jason: And I'll change the rules, anytime I like...

Tarr · 2019-07-21 00:08:20

I mean I'd rather him try to make something more usable and fail than for things to be deemed actually useless. I think the biggest issue with this all is there's just nothing you need to do inside a building in the first place to justify making them in the first place. Making a little 5x5 as a nursery is okay but that's a lot of work for an itty bitty pay off since the only people supposed to be in there could be outside and having the women/wet nurse potentially work at the same time.

I obviously don't think Jason meant to make some aspects of buildings worse (they have to be 5x5 instead of 7x7 now for all tiles to be warm and now the special doorways don't work anymore.) I mean there was a buff but that buff feeds into my buildings are basically useless in the first place as tile space > decreasing food consumption.

So unless he invents a reason to be inside I don't think we'll ever see buildings and in the main server I don't think we'll even see proper buildings built.

Laskara · 2019-07-21 02:49:53

ye

1 can confirm the broken pumps are destroying villages, ive spent a lot of lifetimes looking for new water after we ran the pump once and got a big oof

2 there's absolutely no reason to make buildings. floors, sure, but walls for anything but a nursery no

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2019-07-20 20:39:24

Re: Broke the game again Jason.

#27 2019-07-20 20:42:02

Re: Broke the game again Jason.

#28 2019-07-20 21:11:27

Re: Broke the game again Jason.

#29 2019-07-20 22:08:48

Re: Broke the game again Jason.

#30 2019-07-20 22:11:19

Re: Broke the game again Jason.

#31 2019-07-20 22:17:47

Re: Broke the game again Jason.

#32 2019-07-21 00:00:28

Re: Broke the game again Jason.

#33 2019-07-21 00:08:20

Re: Broke the game again Jason.

#34 2019-07-21 02:49:53

Re: Broke the game again Jason.

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