Use your poll system Please

Lava · 2019-07-31 13:58:50

You wasted an update on the polls and are not using it. Why don't you use it to see how people like this update?

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 14:13:12

Because I know what people think. And it doesn't matter. I'm working on fixing it. Ripping it out without testing it and improving it is not going to happen, even if 100% of players don't like it right now.

That's not the kind of developer that I am. I don't take a vote and then do what the majority wants. I make the best game possible, doing whatever it takes to get there. Including bold, unpopular experimentation if necessary.

This game has been shedding players since day 1 because it's not good enough. I'm making it better.

The Poll feature is NOT really about asking players if they like this or that feature, but about gathering info that I simply don't have.

Such as: WHEN YOU USE /DIE, WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACHIEVE

A. I want to be Eve
B. I'm trying to get back to a family that I want to revisit
C. I'm trying to play with a friend
D. I'm trying to ditch an obviously bad mother.

There's no way I can know that answer without asking, and I need that kind of data.

I never asked that question, because I fixed /DIE another way. But that's the kind of question I might ask, if I needed to.

Lava · 2019-07-31 14:22:44

Maybe people are leaving because they think you are not listening to them.

arkajalka · 2019-07-31 14:23:14

Major problem with rift is that people dislike it so much that they rather grieff than live in it. You dont really even get a true feedback from the runs now as grieffing is so common. Also many of the experienced players have given up and on a break, so working towards blossoming town is twice as hard, especially when some of them have turned into grieffing. So actually you lost some good players from your side and are now playing against them and you are left to take care of the 20 berry munchers and fire side roleplayers.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 16:22:10

No, Lava, the vast majority of the 900 daily unique players don't even know I exist.

Remember, 77,000 people joined this game at some point over the past 15 months, and there are only 900 still playing. Where did the other 76,100 players go? You really think they all left because I don't listen?

They stopped playing because the game wasn't good enough.

Because the game gets boring after about 20 lives for most people. Because there aren't interesting enough stories. Because village life is always pretty much the same. Because the crafting system is too obtuse for most people. Because they got through the tutorial and then were dropped into the game and found it overwhelming.

I have the actual data. When the players are "really mad" about some new feature, there is no substantial downturn in daily player numbers or player retention. Or sales.

The game loses as many players as it gains every week, and has done that consistently for many many months. This keeps the game alive at a constant rate, but it doesn't grow.

By making a better game, it will eventually gain more each week than it loses, and then grow steadily.

Good game trumps everything else... all other factors. Making a really good game is hard.

Ilka · 2019-07-31 16:58:10

You have come to wrong conclusions.

This game loses players because it is difficult first of all.

Not because it is boring.

Players generally do not have the patience to fight the rules on GitHub by themselves.

Before they get bored with the game, they leave.

To be a fairly good player you need to spend a hundred hours in the game (maybe more).

The game requires a better tutorial.

What you do continuously increases the level of difficulty, so the effect will be counterproductive.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 17:14:17

Not sure what you mean about GitHub.

The game probably does need a more extensive tutorial at some point.

I also think the crafting hint system is too opaque for most people.

But anyway, the point is that these things have nothing to do with the rift or war swords or whatever "unpopular update" you want to talk about. The players that are leaving haven't even gotten to the point where they can worry about the updates.

They're bouncing off the game.

Ilka · 2019-07-31 17:43:41

That's true, but you introduced these things to make the game more interesting, right?

Because players are bored and walk away ...

But most of the players leave because game it's too difficult for them before they get bored.

Additional obstruction of the game does not help in anything but rather works in the opposite way.

Swords and a slit are a very dubious attraction, even for experienced players.

A bit like someone who has tied up his hands and said, "You get bored? Now try to do it without the help of your hands."

Will it be interesting?

Rather frustrating.

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 17:58:55

Swords were added how many months ago?

I'm not adding anything to make the game harder.

I'm trying to add long-term variation, and a bunch of different kinds of possible stories.

arkajalka · 2019-07-31 18:04:34

Maybe make different difficulty servers, make em easier to pick than ultimate matrix level server typing, label them correctly and so on. Like some could be more casual berry muncher heavens and some the rift...

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 18:18:19

There are only 100 simultaneous players max. Cannot afford to split them up.

Again, I'm not trying to make anything harder. I'm trying to create a long-term story arc, one centralized civ that everyone can be part of building and sustaining, etc.

Instead of 7 far-flung villages that rise/fall over about 18 hours each in total isolation form each other.

The_Anabaptist · 2019-07-31 18:38:04

I get it. We vocal few are the minority. I'm glad that you put some numbers in front of us so that everyone (hopefully) gets it. The churn rate of players doesn't matter to you as long as there are new people ponying up money weekly. Which is why my carnival barker comment hits the nail on the head.

I just wish that you would find value in what we had to say. Using the polls frequently and often to get our collective pulse costs you nothing.

Ask us something like this: Which of the following features is the biggest turn off in term of playing the game another time the most?
1) The crafting instructions tool
2) The repetitive clicking of the gameplay
3) The lack of variety in what to do from one life to the next
4) The survival difficulty curve of the game
5) The PvP combat system
6) Other

I'm going to bet that whichever of these answers ends up on top, isn't the one you are currently focusing on. I know you think you know, but I don't think you really do.

The_Anabaptist

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 19:02:32

The_Anabaptist wrote:

Ask us something like this: Which of the following features is the biggest turn off in term of playing the game another time the most?
1) The crafting instructions tool
2) The repetitive clicking of the gameplay
3) The lack of variety in what to do from one life to the next
4) The survival difficulty curve of the game
5) The PvP combat system
6) Other

Done. The poll will run for the next two days.

http://onehouronelife.com/reviewServer/ … list_polls

Limited to people who have lived at least 2 total hours and at least 10 lives.

Whatever · 2019-07-31 19:07:28

I think instead its better to ask a positive question, like:

What would you like to see in the future:

- More variety across lives
- less PvP combat
- a better crafting hint system

- more content
- automated farms

.... and so on

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 19:11:25

But here's the thing... and you're going to think I'm nuts, but it's true:

Players generally don't know WHY they actually feel something when they play a game.

If a game is boring, they will often feel like they have pinpointed why, and tell you what's missing, but be wrong about it. It might be something totally different that's making it boring. You fix that one thing, something that they might not even notice has changed, and suddenly they'll say, "Whoa, I don't know what you did, but it's way more fun now."

I'm not really sure why this is. But it's a general design rule of thumb: listen to what players say they are feeling, but don't listen to their specific suggestions for fixing it. This is not my rule. It's actually described in books on the art/craft of game design. In fact, some designers say, "Don't ever talk to players and ask them questions. Just watch them play."

For all we know, the real reason they quit OHOL is because it's not very addictive, and there are other more addictive games that they are drawn to. Like, games with random loot boxes or whatever. But I can't imagine any player actually saying, "What this game needs is random loot boxes!"

(I'm not saying that's what's going on, but it's an example of how these things are subtle.)

jasonrohrer · 2019-07-31 19:12:56

New poll question:

What poll should I run in the future?

A. A poll about why you play
B. A poll about why you don't play
C. Another poll about polls.

Whatever · 2019-07-31 19:17:42

jasonrohrer wrote:

New poll question:
What poll should I run in the future?
A. A poll about why you play
B. A poll about why you don't play
C. Another poll about polls.

yes pls do this, why not?

Whatever · 2019-07-31 19:24:15

hmmmm, or maybe we could have a reddit page for polls !
every week the poll that has the most up votes will be used inside the game.
so the community would create polls and vote for them, this would be fun !

you are creating a very special game, and we need a very special polling system for it !

Last edited by Whatever (2019-07-31 19:24:43)

mrbah · 2019-08-01 05:17:28

jasonrohrer wrote:

In fact, some designers say, "Don't ever talk to players and ask them questions. Just watch them play."

this is also how you get a game with big markers all over the place and basically giant billboards telling you where to go, because a few playtesters looked behind every waterfall to see if there was anything worth exploring.

olooopo · 2019-08-01 12:14:57

jasonrohrer wrote:

For all we know, the real reason they quit OHOL is because it's not very addictive, and there are other more addictive games that they are drawn to. Like, games with random loot boxes or whatever. But I can't imagine any player actually saying, "What this game needs is random loot boxes!"
(I'm not saying that's what's going on, but it's an example of how these things are subtle.)

Your game is\was already addictive... how would you explain, otherwise, that some people invested more than 1000 hours of their life in it? It's just not addictive to everybody but that's not a goal someone should aim for, is it? Thus, game design rises also the question; which type of players are you addressing?

pein · 2019-08-01 14:50:28

jasonrohrer wrote:

But here's the thing... and you're going to think I'm nuts, but it's true:
Players generally don't know WHY they actually feel something when they play a game.
If a game is boring, they will often feel like they have pinpointed why, and tell you what's missing, but be wrong about it. It might be something totally different that's making it boring. You fix that one thing, something that they might not even notice has changed, and suddenly they'll say, "Whoa, I don't know what you did, but it's way more fun now."
I'm not really sure why this is. But it's a general design rule of thumb: listen to what players say they are feeling, but don't listen to their specific suggestions for fixing it. This is not my rule. It's actually described in books on the art/craft of game design. In fact, some designers say, "Don't ever talk to players and ask them questions. Just watch them play."

For all we know, the real reason they quit OHOL is because it's not very addictive, and there are other more addictive games that they are drawn to. Like, games with random loot boxes or whatever. But I can't imagine any player actually saying, "What this game needs is random loot boxes!"
(I'm not saying that's what's going on, but it's an example of how these things are subtle.)

that might be true about average players
but you shouldn't underestimate them nevertheless

one thing i love about games, is when it surprises me, when it's a layer underneath that guides me slightly, punishes and rewards and keeps me going

well, the fact that each 60 minutes you gain nothing for next lifes, leaves you with quite a bad taste sometimes
so the problem i see is coming from that, and it's hard to fix
how a player would want to come back for more when a life wont really affect another?
in current form, any xp system or persistent world wont really work
sure, it could be some form of specialization but that would be short lived

now if we think about the reincarnation stuff, the soul part of the game
quite hard to think of any non game breaking rewards, the genes are interesting choice but i don't feel like im rewarded directly

good example a recent life, where i did everything well and they still died
i noticed that whatever i do, i cant save them all, and i noticed that people who try, will face the same fate, and eventually break
and that's a good thing, but also bad. they need to learn that they cant save everybody, so they need to be good at one thing and help others indirectly, or shift the meta, so others know how to save themselves

if i make the tools, survival chance is higher, maybe the time i spend on it, could be used better on helping the farms, but eventually it's the right choice, as im faster at it, so my kids my struggle but my grandkids will progress, if they make it until that point
not sure if it's the right message to send

i seen highly optimistic players, they keep feeding people, try to help out, it doesn't make sense logically, maybe it feels nice for others, or them
wont change that it's impossible to keep them alive if they don't help out

was the same with me, i just dilly-dally around and had minimum requirements to survive, and i was skipping out on bad lifes
until i started Eve runs myself and learned that the game is hard and keeping people alive can be your sole responsibility and you cant do much about it

can be boring cause of the game is too easy, but i don't really need those grinding lifes, i accept a challenge time to time but i cant say i particularly enjoy it

i want some different kind of hard
i need the tools to fix a situation, and we not there yet
communicating or motivating others is hard, havign any sort of control over others
very few lifes, people care about being led by me and the solutions i provide are useful, other times i just feel like nothing i do matters so i just can skip the communication

hard to describe, hard to find a fix
we need some different kind of message

i feel like, lot of times people just don't take seriously enough the hard situations that's why they get punished, or they too selfish to see what they use is more than others can or should afford

i don't feel like more people mean more workers

maybe some sort of team jobs would be nice, then big population could do things, that small ones cant

the limited map provides challenges on it's own
no need for resources to be so scarce to create different situations
it was interesting to see how the rift edges are favored by roaming people, and how the middle of map is just used for scavenging
how much difference does it make that a camp is 120 away from the border or just 80 away

how towns that are rich, get mixed populations and more griefers cause of it

cosmetical items could be a way to go to make lifes a bit more interesting, some sort of special resources, more adapting to map

lilo · 2019-08-01 17:08:14

I don't think the game is hard. What i liked about this game precisely is how easy it is, and what i enjoyed the most is the easy recipes and task that are useful for the town. Once you have played for some hours however you have already repeated the same things over and over and try some of the harder recipes to do something diferent, but i dont find that as enjoyable, first because except the oil and newcomen the other hard recipes dont feel that useful for the town(stuff like the radio, fries with ketchup, photography, car, airplane, etc) and second because those recipes are really hard to memorize and to make them you have to be looking the instructions.
Thats why i think one way to making the game more interesting without changing much is making instead of only one civilization diferent ones(I made a thread explaining this idea more, if you are interested), so depending on the biome you are born there is diferent easy task and recipes you can do, so if for example there is 5 diferent civilizations you can get five times more hours of enjoyable playing. Also this diferent civilizations thing may encourage some role playing, diplomacy, that can be also enjoyable and give you more diferent lifes.

lilbogrusboi · 2019-08-01 22:39:02

I bought my friend ohol cause I thought it would be fun but he only has like 8 hours and stopped playing becuase he said minecraft was better XD.
Maybe you should make the game Minecraft

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-07-31 13:58:50

Use your poll system Please

#2 2019-07-31 14:13:12

Re: Use your poll system Please

#3 2019-07-31 14:22:44

Re: Use your poll system Please

#4 2019-07-31 14:23:14

Re: Use your poll system Please

#5 2019-07-31 16:22:10

Re: Use your poll system Please

#6 2019-07-31 16:58:10

Re: Use your poll system Please

#7 2019-07-31 17:14:17

Re: Use your poll system Please

#8 2019-07-31 17:43:41

Re: Use your poll system Please

#9 2019-07-31 17:58:55

Re: Use your poll system Please

#10 2019-07-31 18:04:34

Re: Use your poll system Please

#11 2019-07-31 18:18:19

Re: Use your poll system Please

#12 2019-07-31 18:38:04

Re: Use your poll system Please

#13 2019-07-31 19:02:32

Re: Use your poll system Please

#14 2019-07-31 19:07:28

Re: Use your poll system Please

#15 2019-07-31 19:11:25

Re: Use your poll system Please

#16 2019-07-31 19:12:56

Re: Use your poll system Please

#17 2019-07-31 19:17:42

Re: Use your poll system Please

#18 2019-07-31 19:24:15

Re: Use your poll system Please

#19 2019-08-01 05:17:28

Re: Use your poll system Please

#20 2019-08-01 12:14:57

Re: Use your poll system Please

#21 2019-08-01 14:50:28

Re: Use your poll system Please

#22 2019-08-01 17:08:14

Re: Use your poll system Please

#23 2019-08-01 22:39:02

Re: Use your poll system Please

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