Here's the temporary fix so I can get back to vacating

jasonrohrer · 2019-08-13 15:33:22

I'm still on vacation.

I see that with bear griefing and juniper griefing (and other stuff too), the rift gets bad pronto.

I don't have the tools at my disposal here to fix this things remotely, nor do I have the time.

So, remotely, I will affect the following changes:

--Disable the rift
--Infinitely growing Eve spiral
--No long-term no-look culling in the center.
--No time limit or end condition of any kind

We haven't had exactly this setup for quite a long time. There was a time in the past when the game worked this way. It wasn't so great, and you all complained about it. Villages die out over time, and the new ones get farther and farther apart. But it's not mass-griefable, and it will just kinda run itself until I get back.

The other option is to go back to the right-before-the-rift state, where there was no-look culling happening in the middle (back to nature, except for anicent walls) and then the Eve spiral reset back to the center over and over. This kept people close together, but there was absolutely no long-term progress. No Tarr shrine around the UNLESS monument, for example.

Anyway, this change will only happen on BigServer2 (because I don't have remote access for an all-server change, since I still don't have my YubiKey back).

The reason I'm doing this is so that I don't have to think about this or worry about it until I get home from vacation. My family is waiting to spend time with me.

But when I return, I'll get back to ironing out the various problems with the rift. It was so close to working right before I left..... but not close enough, apparently.

I hope you can see a glimmer of what I'm shooting for here. Over 8 days, something happened. It wasn't just the same old endless game for 8 days. There was an evolution. There was something to talk and think about. Granted, it was a bad evolution. But at least it was something. The game on Day 1 was very different from the game on Day 8. It was worse, of course, but at least it was different. At least it wasn't static.

The dream is to eventually have something fascinating and interesting and fun happen over the course of about 4 days. To have a compelling evolution and collective story. I will get there eventually. But it will take a lot of experimentation and fixes and tweaks along the way.

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-08-13 15:49:25

Given the low quality of my play time yesterday, I'm thrilled to hear you are rolling the rift back for a bit, and promise I will not complain too much when you add it back in.

Now go enjoy your vacation!

Ilka · 2019-08-13 15:59:11

Finally, some positive change.

CatX · 2019-08-13 16:01:55

jasonrohrer wrote:

So, remotely, I will affect the following changes:

--Disable the rift
--Infinitely growing Eve spiral
--No long-term no-look culling in the center.
--No time limit or end condition of any kind

Yay!

Amon · 2019-08-13 16:13:46

Hey, even bad evolution can lead to something great. It's something to learn from, it's something to improve on.
Sure you might hit something while shooting blindly, but hey.

jasonrohrer · 2019-08-13 16:22:43

Going back to a different broken state that players complained about for 15 months isn't exactly a "positive change."

"Why are villages so far apart."

"Why do we never interact with each other between villages."

"Why is the game so THE SAME day after day?"

"Why is everything that we build lost slowly over time?"

We've been there before, and it wasn't great, which is why I've been working to change and improve it and find a better way for it to work.

Instead of a positive change, this is a temporary revert back to a state nobody liked all that much, but which was less broken than the in-progress state that we're currently in.

Anyway, I think this change is live now. The rift should have "poofed" out of existence (you may need to walk away and come back to see that). I'm assuming that the Eve spiral will keep growing now.

Please confirm.

DestinyCall · 2019-08-13 16:28:17

jasonrohrer wrote:

Going back to a different broken state that players complained about for 15 months isn't exactly a "positive change."

It already feels like a step in the right direction to me. But I'm really really tired of bears right now.

jasonrohrer · 2019-08-13 16:31:25

Well, I didn't fix bears.

The reason you never noticed this problem for 15 months was because you'd constantly spawn out in the endless wilderness where the griefers hadn't been yet.

So yeah, lack of permanence fixes all problems. But it's not very interesting.

DestinyCall · 2019-08-13 16:33:31

No worries. This will fix the immediate issues. The rest can wait until you finish your vacation.

I'm very sorry that you had to take time away from your family to deal with game issues.

Thank you again for the fix, Jason.

Guppy · 2019-08-13 16:37:20

I think the " Why are villages so far apart, we want to interact with other villages" was all BEFORE the war swords

Dantox · 2019-08-13 16:41:01

jasonrohrer wrote:

Going back to a different broken state that players complained about for 15 months isn't exactly a "positive change."

In this case it is a positive change, the actual state of the game with the rift is not enjoyable with the current size and the available griefing that can be done within the rift.

I do know that you said you are currently "working on that" but the more time you take to do that the longer the playerbase is tanking this whole experience which is bad in the long run, just watch what happened to tarr or morti.

The rift was A BIG CHANGE that was made without not vision whatsoever, so there was a lot of stuff that wasnt taken into acount (like how there can only be 3 nosajs in the map making manual apocalypse impossible or the high numbers on bear caves or the lack of feathers in the map) making it the hell cage that everyone has been complaining about.

I am pretty confident that if you made a poll asking what was better the vast majority would say that pre-rift was better. Not because it was a bad concept or a bad design but because it was a poor implementation and execution of it.

I am not saying that you were lazy or just cheap on just putting invisible walls on it, but all that i try to say is that you cant just make these big changes without taking in consideration how many mechanics will be broken because of it. (Taking a vacation in the middle of the development on the rift was a terrible idea, i am not saying that you shouldnt take vacations but that you should have reverted these changes until you were back from it)

I believe that the rift itself was a good idea, its just that it was implemented badly and now most of the playerbase has a horrible impression of it because of this behavior.

CatX · 2019-08-13 16:42:44

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, I didn't fix bears.
The reason you never noticed this problem for 15 months was because you'd constantly spawn out in the endless wilderness where the griefers hadn't been yet.
So yeah, lack of permanence fixes all problems. But it's not very interesting.

Uhm, I disagree...
Before the rift I sometimes spent my life building walls in front of bear caves because I was tired of all the bears.
There was one village I remember being destroyed by bears because we struggled to find ingredients for arrows in time.

The problems were always there, and we knew. The difference is that with the Rift the problems become a hundred times bigger.

Another suggestion (I know you don't like suggestions, but...)

Why not alternate between Rift and no-rift worlds?
When an apocalypse happens in an ordinary world, it creates a Rift. When something happens in the Rift to end it, it becomes a normal world again.

ollj · 2019-08-13 16:53:44

praise the bears, the goose genocide and even the slightly organized greedy discordDome, the rift is finally gone.

we can fix some simple old bugs now: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 364#p71364

Last edited by ollj (2019-08-13 18:35:44)

Twisted · 2019-08-13 17:24:03

Amazing news, thank you so much from taking the time from your vacation to adjust the game.

I see what you're going for with the rift and a limited playspace - permanence can create more interesting stories than when there's no permanence - but at this stage it just makes the game not very enjoyable to play. One day though!

Spoonwood · 2019-08-13 17:41:46

jasonrohrer wrote:

Going back to a different broken state that players complained about for 15 months isn't exactly a "positive change."
"Why are villages so far apart."

Because if they lay close together, then there would exist some people from one village trying to kill people in the other village for no good reason. In other words, because of griefing.

jasonrohrer wrote:

"Why do we never interact with each other between villages."

I did actually interact with people in other villages other than my home one. But, that was BEFORE the language barrier, and when I could find them using the Hetuw mod. So, basically, the answers lie in the language barrier and not being able to find other villages.

jasonrohrer wrote:

"Why is the game so THE SAME day after day?"

Because the tech tree isn't that deep and resources aren't that varied. The rift idea I note doesn't do anything here. It didn't lead to diversity in the game. Indeed, people said that the game had a greater level of sameness from life to life with the rift.

jasonrohrer wrote:

"Why is everything that we build lost slowly over time?"

Because the server was set to wipe things that weren't seen after a certain time period. Solution: Have that time period be a bit long. And more importantly, enable people who have lived to 60 to get reborn into the same spot.

jasonrohrer wrote:

We've been there before, and it wasn't great, which is why I've been working to change and improve it and find a better way for it to work.

Your numbers in terms of player count were better under the old system, and they precipitously dropped under the new system. Additionally, the rift system limits potential player growth in principle, no matter how they play. The old system did not do that. In terms of allowing for more and more player growth the old system was great.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Instead of a positive change, this is a temporary revert back to a state nobody liked all that much, but which was less broken than the in-progress state that we're currently in.

No. I liked the old system. The indefinitely expanding Eve spiral lead to further and further out towns on the old server12. It allowed for ever expanding growth in the playerbase (not that such was happening, but it came as possible).

Seriously Jason, there was no need at all to say 'nobody liked all that much'. Using absolutes like that comes as bound to end up wrong as a rule.

Potjeh · 2019-08-13 18:34:57

Regardless whether rift is a bad idea or not, it was definitely a poorly timed one. You really shouldn't do such huge meta changes shortly before a vacation.

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-08-13 19:37:34

I was playing while the rift went poof. It poofed. I experienced some serious lag as it went poof, but i play with Hetuw, so YMMV.

It was glorious to go from a very limited oldest-son-of-an-eve scraping by in a reclaimed village hard up against the edge of the rift to having the best of both worlds... a developed town with loose domesticated animals north of it and abundant wild foods and milkweed to the south. I got to wake up rabbits for the first time in a loooong while.

DiscardedSlinky · 2019-08-13 20:03:40

Oh thank God YES I can't wait to play now

Karrots · 2019-08-13 20:19:31

Either change is completely fine to me. Whatever floats your boat, at this point I've just been desensitized to the rift and taken long breaks between playing to minimize the frustration . This update will be like a breath of fresh air until you can find a more permanent solution for the game's many issues.

WumboJumbo · 2019-08-13 20:25:25

https://youtu.be/pwSsT8IU0WE

Villas · 2019-08-14 00:31:57

ollj wrote:

praise the bears, the goose genocide and even the slightly organized greedy discordDome, the rift is finally gone.
we can fix some simple old bugs now: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 364#p71364

It doesn’t make sense, the game is only bad because of bears and discord griefers.
Without them, the rift would be nice, without griefing.

A better solution would be perms banning those griefers, then the rift would be heaven.

I checked server 1 and the rift there is wonderful, without bears nor blocked buildings, mouflons alive, all junipers okay.

The problem isn’t the rift, it’s really good, towns were developing a lot and players were learning high tech stuff, but griefers kept ruining our experience.

Just perna ban ollj and those griefers who came here in the forum laugh at us after griefing and the game will be gutti.

ollj · 2019-08-14 05:39:53

yes. with VERY low population count the rift does not have all its scarcity and conflict issues.
this precisely defeats the main purpose of the rift.

MultiLife · 2019-08-14 06:16:41

Spoonwood wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
Going back to a different broken state that players complained about for 15 months isn't exactly a "positive change."
"Why are villages so far apart."
Because if they lay close together, then there would exist some people from one village trying to kill people in the other village for no good reason. In other words, because of griefing.
jasonrohrer wrote:
"Why do we never interact with each other between villages."
I did actually interact with people in other villages other than my home one. But, that was BEFORE the language barrier, and when I could find them using the Hetuw mod. So, basically, the answers lie in the language barrier and not being able to find other villages.
jasonrohrer wrote:
"Why is the game so THE SAME day after day?"
Because the tech tree isn't that deep and resources aren't that varied. The rift idea I note doesn't do anything here. It didn't lead to diversity in the game. Indeed, people said that the game had a greater level of sameness from life to life with the rift.
jasonrohrer wrote:
"Why is everything that we build lost slowly over time?"
Because the server was set to wipe things that weren't seen after a certain time period. Solution: Have that time period be a bit long. And more importantly, enable people who have lived to 60 to get reborn into the same spot.
jasonrohrer wrote:
We've been there before, and it wasn't great, which is why I've been working to change and improve it and find a better way for it to work.
Your numbers in terms of player count were better under the old system, and they precipitously dropped under the new system. Additionally, the rift system limits potential player growth in principle, no matter how they play. The old system did not do that. In terms of allowing for more and more player growth the old system was great.
jasonrohrer wrote:
Instead of a positive change, this is a temporary revert back to a state nobody liked all that much, but which was less broken than the in-progress state that we're currently in.
No. I liked the old system. The indefinitely expanding Eve spiral lead to further and further out towns on the old server12. It allowed for ever expanding growth in the playerbase (not that such was happening, but it came as possible).
Seriously Jason, there was no need at all to say 'nobody liked all that much'. Using absolutes like that comes as bound to end up wrong as a rule.

I agree with this. Did you ever poll your playerbase about these things?

Village interaction and being apart:
Sure, why wouldn’t we want that? Oh right, because war sword. I wanted positive reasons to meet and mix communities. But instead of marriage, healthier gene pool, trade routes and mass transit, we have language barriers, swords and scarce resources.
I’d rather not find a village at all if there are no positives to it. I rather live in a town far away from everything than fight against sword raids one after another. I rather live far from everyone if Eves or non related griefers get away without curses.

Why is the game same:
Agreeing with Spoon, there is no variance how things are done or what resources we use. There is sameyness inside Rift, too. We need the same things at the same time and eat and build same things for same reasons. We don’t have enough challenges to conquer, like sickness (humans/animals/crops), disasters, infertile earth etc. To me, however, the sameyness was fine, because it was good mostly. Being greeted with the same good experience I grew familiar with made me play repeatedly. Nice players made me play repeatedly, too. I’d need a poll to figure out why other type of players grow bored with sameyness, and what they feel is missing here.

Why is everything we build lost:
’Cause it’s not Minecraft, right? I was devastated when I learnt that our efforts disappear to thin air. What’s the point in the long run if nothing carries over or you can’t see what your effort enabled few generations later? Thankfully things like family trees, player relationships and genes were there to carry over for us. More things like these could make the loss hurt less. Ghost mode would be great, too, and having chances to rekindle places you REALLY feel are worth it.
In the end, I learnt what carries over; teaching. So I taught players. Not all find this as a valid way of making things last so I’d ask them how long they want things to last anyways.

I wish we wouldn’t push big changes to all servers when new stuff hits, so we could try the new thing and if we didn’t like it, we could go to a server that doesn’t have the new thing. This way we could already vote by splitting into two kinds of servers; new stuff and pre-new stuff. We’d all go through new stuff, list what works and what doesn’t, and instead of stopping playing, we could go to a server without the new thing, perhaps reflect again what we like there and what we liked in the new stuff.

Haven’t played during the rift due to griefer issues, but I’m tempted to get back now that the rift is disabled.

Last edited by MultiLife (2019-08-14 06:18:57)

DestinyCall · 2019-08-14 06:18:51

ollj wrote:

yes. with VERY low population count the rift does not have all its scarcity and conflict issues.
this precisely defeats the main purpose of the rift.

I hate the whole premise of a death box with enforced scarcity that leads to an unavoidable fail condition. It is so ... morbid.

I think the rift could be great ... IF the finite natural resources were replaced with slowly regenerating alternatives which could be further supplemented with higher tech options later in the arch. The goal would be to actually survive and thrive as an interconnected system of villages, rather than trying to live just a little bit longer than last time. If enough people got tired of the current arch, they could work toward triggering the apocalypse and we could begin again from scratch. Or people could work toward building a plane to fly out of the existing rift and expand into fresh land.

But in order to enjoy interconnected villages in a confined space, first we need a concrete solution to the griefer issue.

DiscardedSlinky · 2019-08-14 06:28:35

The rift wouldn't even be so bad if it wasn't so INCREDIBLY small. If Eves had more options than to just take over towns it'd be fine.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-08-13 15:33:22

Here's the temporary fix so I can get back to vacating

#2 2019-08-13 15:49:25

Re: Here's the temporary fix so I can get back to vacating

#3 2019-08-13 15:59:11

Re: Here's the temporary fix so I can get back to vacating

#4 2019-08-13 16:01:55

Re: Here's the temporary fix so I can get back to vacating

#5 2019-08-13 16:13:46

Re: Here's the temporary fix so I can get back to vacating

#6 2019-08-13 16:22:43

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#7 2019-08-13 16:28:17

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#8 2019-08-13 16:31:25

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#9 2019-08-13 16:33:31

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#10 2019-08-13 16:37:20

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#11 2019-08-13 16:41:01

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#12 2019-08-13 16:42:44

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#13 2019-08-13 16:53:44

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#14 2019-08-13 17:24:03

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#15 2019-08-13 17:41:46

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#16 2019-08-13 18:34:57

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#17 2019-08-13 19:37:34

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#18 2019-08-13 20:03:40

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#19 2019-08-13 20:19:31

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#20 2019-08-13 20:25:25

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#21 2019-08-14 00:31:57

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#22 2019-08-14 05:39:53

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#23 2019-08-14 06:16:41

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#24 2019-08-14 06:18:51

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#25 2019-08-14 06:28:35

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