It's gotten quiet here

Carrot-Seedling · 2019-09-15 13:32:03

I find it worrying that the top post 3 weeks ago is still on the front page. Things seem to be slowing down in game too, fewer people in a town, and there's a lot more trolling.
What do you think started this drop in players? I think adding the rift back did it, but it seems a more recent change caused the drop.

Also, on a more positive note, Raidan Allcock is now in the top 5 on the leaderboards.

DiscardedSlinky · 2019-09-15 14:08:00

I heard a tale of a secret forum club that has hand chosen people in it. They post ideas for the game there and Jason listens to them.

That's probably where he's bunkered down in for the past few weeks while we go ignored and unheard.

DestinyCall · 2019-09-15 15:38:55

Actually, I think the player base has been dropping for a long time, it is just finally reaching a critical threshold where it is hard to ignore or hand-wave away.

I started playing OHOL shortly after it was released on Steam. I'd never heard of the game prior to that. When I read about the game's unique concept - being born to other players in a cooperative, survival-oriented village - I was immediately intrigued. After reading a few reviews and checking the player ratings, I made a rare full-price Steam purchase. I almost never buy games for full price on Steam. I have a huge library of Steam game and a substantial backlog of games that I have bought on sale and haven't got around to playing yet, so when I see an interesting game, I usually throw it on my wishlist and wait for 75% sale before spending money. With OHOL, I actually decided to pay full price to get it immediately, instead of waiting.

I'm glad I did, because not only has the game not gone on sale since then, the user ratings have gone from overwhelmingly positive to mixed. If I was considering a purchase now, I wouldn't take the risk, even if the game was 90% off. I have higher rated games sitting in my library waiting to get played when I have the freetime. And considering the current game state and the general progression of game-development since I started playing, I can't disagree with the game's mixed Steam rating. Like the score, I started out feeling overwhelmingly positive about OHOL and overtime, my feelings have become very mixed. A big part of the problem, from my perspective, stems from dealing with chronic and widespread griefing in-game, which has been a problem from the beginning and remains largely unaddressed - ignored ... or even encouraged by game design choices and updates.

When I started playing average player count was around 300 with peaks as high as 600 players at the same time. Since that time, player count has steadily fallen. You can expect a certain amount of player attrition after release, so it is not that surprising that we did not keep up a three hundred player average. Before Steam launch, average player count tended to hover around 50 to 60. The current average player count is now below fifty ... lower than before the Steam release and still dropping.

https://steamcharts.com/app/595690

It is clear that player attrition is too high. We are losing players faster than new players are joining the game. It probably means the game needs better advertising to draw in new people. Possibly a Steam sale or some other way to encourage players to give the game a chance. It also probably means we need to stop driving people away from the game in large numbers. Just as babies are vital to the survival of the village, players are vital to the survival of a multiplayer game. If people keep getting burnt out by over-exposure to toxic levels of griefing, then we can't hope to reverse the trend and actually GROW the OHOL playerbase.

I was expecting to see some improvement after PAX. New players joining the game because they were intrigued by OHOL's unique premise, just as I was. But the numbers keep dropping.

BladeWoods · 2019-09-15 15:44:43

There haven't been many updates to talk about on here in the past month.

Dodge · 2019-09-15 15:55:25

The rift has been mostly fixed, now the issue is the end condition that griefers see as a challenge to reset the arc by killing families.

So the main issue right now is not the cutting of tree, killing mufflons etc like before, but mainly the murders due to the end condition.

And with the curse system not working no way to stop the griefers that can just get reborn and start killing again, this plus you die too fast not enough time to heal.

But these issues will get fixed in the upcomming weeks.

The rift in itself is not an issue, if there was the same end conditions and no rift it would be the same problem.

DestinyCall · 2019-09-15 16:41:48

No, that's not really true.

Without the rift, we would spread out more and it would be harder for a griefer to threaten a town from the outside by repeatedly returning to grief it. Internal griefing would still be a concern, since the griefers can just get born into your town as babies. But that could be potentially solved by fixing the currently broken curse system.

The Rift forces us into close proximity AND traps us in the same box as the griefers. There is no doubt in my mind that it makes griefing easier AND more fun. The broken curses mean that nothing we do has any impact on organized griefing. Viable peaceful gameplay within the rift hinges on robust anti-griefing mechanics which are currently absent and historically unsupported.

However, you are correct that the combination of a fixed Eve window and a reset condition based on surviving families would inevitably lead to a similar failure state even in an open world, as our options rapidly narrowed down to just two families. Honestly, I am not a fan of the current end condition and the whole arc concept.

We have a failure state, but we have no "win" condition. No viable way to continue after the Eve window closes, except to fight against slow but inevitable die-off. Griefers can work toward ending the arc as fast as possible by killing off families more efficiently, but there is no counter-play for people who want to keep playing on the same map. No way to generate new families and slow the death spiral or remove destructive players from the active gamespace.

There are still many serious problems with the Rift which interact to create significant gameplay issues. The last arc only lasted 1212 years. I do not expect any better from the next arc. Why bother building at all when the arc guarantees that your efforts will be wiped out within a day or two? At least before the rift, I had hope that I might stumble upon an old village a few days or even weeks later. Map resets were rare and people traveled around to find old ruins. You could rebuild. Even if your family died out, you could hope that the village might be discovered by some wandering Eve or random traveller.

Now, you can check on the main website to find out if you will be dealing with Eve griefers or family killers in your next life, depending on how many hours the current arc has been running. I do not consider the Rift to be "mostly fixed" right now.

sigmen4020 · 2019-09-15 19:15:04

DestinyCall wrote:

When I started playing average player count was around 300 with peaks as high as 600 players at the same time. Since that time, player count has steadily fallen. You can expect a certain amount of player attrition after release, so it is not that surprising that we did not keep up a three hundred player average. Before Steam launch, average player count tended to hover around 50 to 60. The current average player count is now below fifty ... lower than before the Steam release and still dropping.
https://steamcharts.com/app/595690

I agree that the game's playerbase has continuously dropped for a while now, down to pretty low numbers. But you can't really take the steam numbers as the representative of the game's entire playerbase, when there are quite a few people that don't play through Steam. I, like you, started playing when the game was released on Steam when the hype was highest for the game so I don't know what the numbers were like before. But I still think the game has better numbers than it had before Steam, if the numbers you say are true. Though with the current consistent drop in players that might not hold true for long.

DestinyCall · 2019-09-15 19:22:06

sigmen4020 wrote:

But I still think the game has better numbers than it had before Steam, if the numbers you say are true. Though with the current consistent drop in players that might not hold true for long.

Unfortunately, I think we are already there. From what I've seen from looking back at previous forum postings regarding average server population, the average population on the main public sever is already trending lower than it was averaging before the Steam release. From what I've seen on the one-hour server reflector, I don't think the Steam charts numbers are that far off from the real numbers.

If someone has gathered server population data that shows a brighter picture, I'd be happy to see it.

Dodge · 2019-09-15 19:36:37

DestinyCall wrote:

sigmen4020 wrote:
But I still think the game has better numbers than it had before Steam, if the numbers you say are true. Though with the current consistent drop in players that might not hold true for long.
Unfortunately, I think we are already there. From what I've seen from looking back at previous forum postings regarding average server population, the average population on the main public sever is already trending lower than it was averaging before the Steam release. From what I've seen on the one-hour server reflector, I don't think the Steam charts numbers are that far off from the real numbers.
If someone has gathered server population data that shows a brighter picture, I'd be happy to see it.

Before steam release there was an average of 20-30 players now the average is in the 50-60, currently there is 100 players on servers. http://onehouronelife.com/reflector/ser … ion=report

I'm not saying there isn't a steady and slow decrease in number of players since steam release but it's blown way out of proportion.

Lava · 2019-09-15 19:46:43

https://steamcharts.com/app/595690 The game dropped ten percent last month because of the implementation of the rift. On top of that Jason doesn't even talk in forums. His game is going down the gutter

DestinyCall · 2019-09-15 19:59:32

Digging around in past posts, I found this interesting one where thundersen used lifelogs to chart new players entering the game around the time of the Steam release. I'd be curious to see what it would look like now.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4960

Karrots · 2019-09-15 21:55:02

Well, for one, we experienced a big steam boom that has been declining ever since. And you know Jason with his controversial updates. A lot of players get the sense that he doesn't listen to the community and don't like the game's changes.

People just aren't willing to give hours of their life to a game that isn't going in a direction they think is fun.

Other than that, there's a content drought. There have been little fixes and changes to existing mechanics but nothing new. I've really been trying to play but it's just not interesting anymore. At first I tried new things, building many engines, creating almost every type of food, building gardens/castles and creating excessive, fancy outfits.

After I'd explored most of what I could bother doing (have no patience for radios) I decided to join discord and go on the anon draw. That kind of made things more interesting, but not for long. Soon I'd moved on to getting new expansions that other games came out with and checking up every few weeks for content that never came.

If I was not this invested in OHOL I probably would've quit.

So, there's that. But most importantly you seem to be forgetting that summer just ended :( and that means all of the school/college attending audience needs to go back. Life has picked up again and I'm guessing...

(TL;DR)
less and less people have time to play a game severely lacking content, with a dev they feel ignores them.

Last edited by Karrots (2019-09-15 21:55:48)

Carrot-Seedling · 2019-09-15 21:56:24

DestinyCall wrote:

We have a failure state, but we have no "win" condition. No viable way to continue after the Eve window closes, except to fight against slow but inevitable die-off. Griefers can work toward ending the arc as fast as possible by killing off families more efficiently, but there is no counter-play for people who want to keep playing on the same map. No way to generate new families and slow the death spiral or remove destructive players from the active gamespace.

So let's pester Jason to add something. It dosen't need to make sense. It just needs to be something other than "death is inevitable."

Ideas, people?

pein · 2019-09-15 22:06:27

lol slinky don't believe everything

the fixes come from github issues mainly

The_Anabaptist · 2019-09-15 22:25:10

As long as a sufficient amount of new people are buying the game weekly, churn rate doesn't matter. Jason said so himself.

Doesn't matter if the forum is dead. Doesn't matter that the maladjusted players organized. Doesn't matter if anyone is actually playing for that matter.

I keep watching the Steam reviews to see when the big bump of positive reviews actually drops off. I was expecting for them to already be gone but they linger, which makes me think something is fishy with valve's rating system.

The_Anabaptist

DestinyCall · 2019-09-15 22:26:49

Carrot-Seedling wrote:

Ideas, people?

No, Carrot, this is something the Captain has to do for himself.

jasonrohrer wrote:

So many people give me feedback about problems in OHOL in the forms of deeply-thought-out fixes. Unless I'm explicitly requesting this kind of input, it's not that useful to me.
...
So what do I need from you, the player, mostly as feedback?
Clear statements of problems that you have encountered. I don't need to hear dozens of solutions. I need to understand the problem.

If he needs assistance, he will let us know.

FeverDog · 2019-09-16 03:39:24

I'm not as concerned with no new content as I am with griefers, slackers and the reset. I'm happy to make pies for an hour if I feel like I'm contributing to the progression of a collective project. Or, I'm happy to try to revive a dying city with only one fertile female. But what's the point if it all fails because of idiotic murder roleplaying, the reset or because some fool wants to spend an hour making a swastika out of fencing? People standing around the fire babbling nonsense eating berries. Why am I bothering when it's all going to go away within 24 hours?

I'm usually one of the last people to declare "this game is dead" but I'm almost ready to make that statement. And, really, why not? Let's all just move on, Jason included. He made his art game/experiment. What more is there to do here?

Dodge · 2019-09-16 06:58:11

The_Anabaptist wrote:

As long as a sufficient amount of new people are buying the game weekly, churn rate doesn't matter. Jason said so himself.
Doesn't matter if the forum is dead. Doesn't matter that the maladjusted players organized. Doesn't matter if anyone is actually playing for that matter.
I keep watching the Steam reviews to see when the big bump of positive reviews actually drops off. I was expecting for them to already be gone but they linger, which makes me think something is fishy with valve's rating system.
The_Anabaptist

You're being paranoid, the game keeps getting positive reviews because it's a good game, but it also keeps getting negative reviews because it still has issues with it, as simple as that. Not some conspiracy bullshit.

Some people are so dramatic, the game is not dying, the issues will get fixed, just chill out.

If you dont like it currently just take a break and come back when it's better.

Or you can adapt to the current meta and make medical aprons and healing supplies, medics are in high demand right now

sigmen4020 · 2019-09-16 07:31:31

DestinyCall wrote:

sigmen4020 wrote:
But I still think the game has better numbers than it had before Steam, if the numbers you say are true. Though with the current consistent drop in players that might not hold true for long.
Unfortunately, I think we are already there. From what I've seen from looking back at previous forum postings regarding average server population, the average population on the main public sever is already trending lower than it was averaging before the Steam release. From what I've seen on the one-hour server reflector, I don't think the Steam charts numbers are that far off from the real numbers.
If someone has gathered server population data that shows a brighter picture, I'd be happy to see it.

The player numbers definitely depends on the time of day/week. I've seen the numbers go down to about 25 in the off hours on regular weekdays, and go up to 85 in prime time on weekends, so I don't know how much one can gather by looking at the server reflector alone. Would definitely be interesting to see if someone could gather server population data and compare it to before the Steam release.

breezeknight · 2019-09-16 12:52:10

why 100 players tops is accepted as a sufficient number of players ?

this game is out now over 1.5 years, it didn't manage in that time frame to accumulate a substantial number of core players, it's not even 50
over the course of those 1.5 years i've seen many who were VERY active & VERY excited & VERY positive about the gameplay before an update, then throwing in the towel after they fought for a while for what they have lost
this game managed in those 1.5 years to literally shed players, instead to accumulate them

the way how this game is being developed is even worse than super early access games & i've been through several meantime
there is no road map, so nobody knows what the general destination is or not even what the next destination is, probably not even holy Jason Rohrer
since i am playing also several mobile games so i am used to regular gameplay changing updates, but what the updates of OHOL managed is to literally EXCHANGE the gameplay from a comfy builder to wonky PvP

the biggest issue i have meantime with the game is how it is advertized & that its actual gameplay is in NO WAY what was & still is advertized
the ads are for a game which is not present

the game might be somewhat interesting to a newbee still but the novelty will fade away quickly because there is no deeper gameplay included
the whole thing falls apart & the griefer situation surely doesn't help
changes like the rift or the fences are not increasing the value of gameplay, they are some wonky ideas to an unknown future end

the main thing i am waiting for is
sort a value to life in OHOL, so far to live in OHOL is just a grinding chore, no player will ever see that as appealing

- - -

Karrots · 2019-09-17 00:02:05

Dodge wrote:

You're being paranoid, the game keeps getting positive reviews because it's a good game, but it also keeps getting negative reviews because it still has issues with it, as simple as that. Not some conspiracy bullshit.
Some people are so dramatic, the game is not dying, the issues will get fixed, just chill out.
If you dont like it currently just take a break and come back when it's better.
Or you can adapt to the current meta and make medical aprons and healing supplies, medics are in high demand right now

I disagree. The game needs new content, it's starving. The reason the playerbase is dropping is because they're following your advice, "take a break and come back when it's better."

The game just... isn't getting better. We haven't gotten new content in forever and the playerbase is loosing interest, and that break becomes a vacation and that vacation becomes permanent.

The game gets positive reviews because it was worth the buy. For the price, I've gotten hours and hours of fun, exciting gameplay out of it. Even if I'm no longer interested it was worth the cash. But the new players don't see it that way, because they never got the hours of game time we got from the good old days.

All they know is the rift, and to them it must seem like a miserable scam compared to the ads. Not to mention the game has no new content and is far from finished. Pre rift players already put their time in, and played their hearts content out of it. By now updates don't even matter because the game has already done its job, and they are content with what they got.

But I imagine newbs are livid, as the game is far bleaker than it used to be. No updates, mass griefing, and nobody to teach them how to make pads and properly deal with griefers. Now it's just a grind.

Check onetech, try and try again, repeat and repeat and repeat. Learning new things is much more interesting when you watch and learn from other players in game.

Psykout · 2019-09-17 03:25:28

The thing about new content is that is it usually upping the tech tree. More advanced objects like newcomen and engines, oil and such. These things take time, coordination and community efforts. That is now much harder to approach with the state of the game and playerbase.

People are throwing out top end player counts, but how many are playing positively and how many negatively. I'd take 50 people with a few I'll doers over 90 with 10 or so people killing and not working.

New advanced tech getting added every couple weeks is not going to fix any of the problems. The ones that get bored and start killing people for kicks, and eventually start working with the groups of griefers, are not going to suddenly change habits when a new complicated tech item is added.

Think about how many people even knew how to make an engine when well tech got added. Do you really think players that got tired of farming berries, that did not want to challenge themselves to learn, stopped stabbing people because cameras got added?

Jason wanted to make a game that everyone had a place. Didn't matter if being told "I love you mom" made your day or drama from murdering the last female got you going. This is the bed he made, that we have to sleep in. I found another bed, as so many have as well.

It just hits doubly hard because the whole game ceases to function without players working together. This is why multiplayer only games are fraught with danger of collapsing if player attrition is too high. No matter how good the game is, if no one is playing it, it holds little to no value.

Lava · 2019-09-17 03:32:29

Psykout wrote:

The thing about new content is that is it usually upping the tech tree. More advanced objects like newcomen and engines, oil and such. These things take time, coordination and community efforts. That is now much harder to approach with the state of the game and playerbase.
People are throwing out top end player counts, but how many are playing positively and how many negatively. I'd take 50 people with a few I'll doers over 90 with 10 or so people killing and not working.
New advanced tech getting added every couple weeks is not going to fix any of the problems. The ones that get bored and start killing people for kicks, and eventually start working with the groups of griefers, are not going to suddenly change habits when a new complicated tech item is added.
Think about how many people even knew how to make an engine when well tech got added. Do you really think players that got tired of farming berries, that did not want to challenge themselves to learn, stopped stabbing people because cameras got added?
Jason wanted to make a game that everyone had a place. Didn't matter if being told "I love you mom" made your day or drama from murdering the last female got you going. This is the bed he made, that we have to sleep in. I found another bed, as so many have as well.
It just hits doubly hard because the whole game ceases to function without players working together. This is why multiplayer only games are fraught with danger of collapsing if player attrition is too high. No matter how good the game is, if no one is playing it, it holds little to no value.

I strongly disagree we haven't had top tech tree content in a while and its getting boring. I've been circulating the same top tech tree content for the past three months, imagine how repetitive that is. New content would actually add something interesting so that veteran players actually stay and are not replaced by new players who will leave after they realize how toxic some of the playerbase is. We need content that's upping the tech tree because we have been in the longest content drought ever and frankly its getting boring for many experienced players. I don't see adding more content wont solve the problem I see the opposite. This game is desperate for more content.

---

Oil and Iron Fanatic /ill Green Boi

Learn how to build a damn engine.

Dantox · 2019-09-17 04:52:34

The_Anabaptist wrote:

As long as a sufficient amount of new people are buying the game weekly, churn rate doesn't matter. Jason said so himself.
Doesn't matter if the forum is dead. Doesn't matter that the maladjusted players organized. Doesn't matter if anyone is actually playing for that matter.
I keep watching the Steam reviews to see when the big bump of positive reviews actually drops off. I was expecting for them to already be gone but they linger, which makes me think something is fishy with valve's rating system.
The_Anabaptist

this mindset is really depressing for me, when i first saw the trailer for OHOL i thought it would be a passionate project that was headed to be "the best game ever", not one that was conformed to sell enough to just make a living and call it a day.

OHOL could be so much more but i dont think its going to get very far. i think we are heading for the same fate that Castle Doctrine had and thats just sad.

Psykout · 2019-09-17 05:41:41

Lava wrote:

I strongly disagree we haven't had top tech tree content in a while and its getting boring. I've been circulating the same top tech tree content for the past three months, imagine how repetitive that is. New content would actually add something interesting so that veteran players actually stay and are not replaced by new players who will leave after they realize how toxic some of the playerbase is. We need content that's upping the tech tree because we have been in the longest content drought ever and frankly its getting boring for many experienced players. I don't see adding more content wont solve the problem I see the opposite. This game is desperate for more content.
---
Oil and Iron Fanatic /ill Green Boi
Learn how to build a damn engine.

I think this is a narrow point of view. I do not think that veterans have left due to a lack of content. The same thing that drives a new player away, the toxicity, is just as likely if not more so to affect a veteran.

Not discounting boredom due to no new top end products to make, but I think it's a small reason. Not being able to achieve long term projects because of lack of help and quick rift resets hits a vet hard.

Towns have the potential to stay for a very long time if the rift does not reset. Mines are able to be upgraded with engines, navigation is easier. Extensive road systems that actually go somewhere are possible. You can return to what you have built life after life (if you aren't killed for being an outsider) These are things long term players have wanted for a very long time. They hold little value because everything gets reset so quickly because there are so many people attempting to make that happen. It's an apocalypse that doesn't need endstones, just repeated killings and stirring up drama everywhere.

We have proven time after time that any new content is done by vets within hours of release. Unless that tech is needed for village survival it's not highly used. If its greatly needed for survival it's just another bottleneck that only a small group of people want to, or can do. If the base gameplay is not appealing throwing new stuff on top just buys a few days. Maybe even less if the item is hard to make and is rarely seen.

When the problem of griefers having more power than power players to keep rifts going, then we will need a slow and steady stream of content again. The thing makes so many lose faith is the feeling that it's better to lose veteran productive members than it is to isolate and prevent griefers from playing.

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