A whoops on the curse radius

Twisted · 2019-09-25 18:13:23

Thaulos wrote:

I would like to remind everyone on how exploitable that kind of system is. We need a certain amount of minimum curses to avoid griefers being able to band together and send people to donkey town.
@Twisted you specially should be very aware of how this kind of thing can be abused. What if all griefers in discord cursed you during a live stream? You would be pretty much put on donkey town for the rest of the week.

Very good point, didn't think of that. But then again, A) they'd have to be playing at the same time, and B) if they are serial griefers they'd probably be in DT themselves and their curses wouldn't do much. But it is something to keep in mind.

Thaulos · 2019-09-25 18:18:40

Only one would need to be online inside the rift mind you.

jasonrohrer · 2019-09-25 18:38:40

Here's a list of cities by murder rate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c … urder_rate

Tijuana has 138 / 100,000 per year.

That's only 0.138% of people per year murdered (1/10 of 1%)

However, the murder rate that I'm giving for OHOL is not "per year" but "per lifetime". In other words, what percentage of deaths are by murder?

Assuming that people in Tijuana live 60 years, we multiply 0.138% by 60, and we find out that 8% of the population will die by murder. There are 138 murders per year per 100,000 people, but 8,280 murders per 60 years per 100,000 people.

So playing OHOL is for an hour is like living a lifetime in Tijuana.

Dodge · 2019-09-25 18:50:01

jasonrohrer wrote:

Here's a list of cities by murder rate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c … urder_rate
Tijuana has 138 / 100,000 per year.
That's only 0.138% of people per year murdered (1/10 of 1%)
However, the murder rate that I'm giving for OHOL is not "per year" but "per lifetime". In other words, what percentage of deaths are by murder?
Assuming that people in Tijuana live 60 years, we multiply 0.138% by 60, and we find out that 8% of the population will die by murder. There are 138 murders per year per 100,000 people, but 8,280 murders per 60 years per 100,000 people.

So playing OHOL is for an hour is like living a lifetime in Tijuana.

i'm guessing most of these are related to drug trafficking and other illegal activities.

Are you going to add drugs like cocaine at one point in the game?

DestinyCall · 2019-09-25 19:08:19

Dodge wrote:

i'm guessing most of these are related to drug trafficking and other illegal activities.
Are you going to add drugs like cocaine at one point in the game?

We already have weed and shrooms. Heroin would be the next logical step.

MultiLife · 2019-09-25 19:13:57

jasonrohrer wrote:

However, I'm really hesitant about proscribing specific punishments. I don't have specific ideas in mind for how I want players to play this game, or what the "right way" is.

Surely it is not the right way to play to abuse loopholes and make others' experience miserable? I'm fine if someone wants to play this game to kill but I am not fine when they get to have overpower with things like juggling war swords, first growl kills, zoom out kill trigger and so on so forth. I believe you are making a game of parenting and civilization, and someone spamming suicides to get back to destroying others' work surely cannot be the right way to play? It's not fair and it's not part of the game to abuse things like these with no consequences.

jasonrohrer wrote:

That's why I like this new system better. You get to define "right" and "wrong" for yourself. If someone bugs you, you can easily curse them (you get one token every 30 minutes), and you will be VERY unlikely to see them again for the next week. They can't spawn w/in 200 tiles of your location. Yes, they might be able to find you, but it will be difficult. The rift is big. It's easy to walk from one edge to another, but much hard to explore the whole thing.
And even if they do find you from 200+ tiles away, you've got a fence, right?
So they're more likely to go after other people than you, in other families, and get cursed by them too. If they bug enough, they will be blocked.
But each person can define what "bad" is for them, without me imposing any judgement.

I like that we can be the judge but I don't like how it makes newbies and passive players leak in players we blacklisted. I'd also love to blacklist people for life, not for 7 days. And I'd love to be able to run to the horizon however far I want and never see a fence again.
When I got my dose of griefers before the Rift, I'd just run into the wilderness and seclude myself, remove myself from the toxic people. But now I don't have that freedom, and boy does it suck.

Twisted · 2019-09-25 19:38:51

Thaulos wrote:

Only one would need to be online inside the rift mind you.

I was under the impression that the system would count online people currently playing only. So if there's five people currently playing that have you cursed, your exile radius is 500, even though you might be cursed by 20 people in total from other offline people.

If it doesn't count online people only and counts all people that cursed you, then I don't think it's a good system. And reading Jason's post again, that's clearly how it's described. So no, I don't think that's a good solution.

Lava · 2019-09-25 19:50:07

Can we get an indicator on how many curses our kids have? If I have a baby that's evil I wont know until he/she does malevolent things or kills someone which can really ruin a village would love a curse indicator.

DestinyCall · 2019-09-25 20:25:33

Lava wrote:

Can we get an indicator on how many curses our kids have? If I have a baby that's evil I wont know until he/she does malevolent things or kills someone which can really ruin a village would love a curse indicator.

We now have a notification when our baby is brand new to the game. Why not have a similar notification when we get a player with over 100 curses? Then we can decide if we want to risk raising our baby, hoping they will do no harm ... or go drop our devil baby on a wild boar.

Anhigen · 2019-09-25 20:37:47

pein wrote:

So basically if you are cursed NW then NW is blocked for you if any of players are there

I like location blocking too. If two people are "fighting" and wind up cursing each other it's probably good, for the village, that both of them get bounced out of that area for a while. This does have the direct problem of both of them being potentially born in the next area they spawn (in the event, like you described, that they both stab and curse each other over some beef) but you could mitigate that with a "Cant be spawned with in x of a person who has cursed you today" rule though.

But locations are interesting because the arcs are more consistent and lasting longer. Towns are staying put along with the work you put into them. Maybe you get a curse and it blocks you out of this quadrant for one day. Get five curses and you're not going to be born in that quad for five days. Maybe the person was wrongly cursed once, but since the town will likely be there tomorrow now, they can be born back to that family when they play again. You caused serious trauma that the family had to recover from? You're probably not being born in that quad, let alone town, until the entire memory of the place is gone and forgotten--maybe even several arcs later, depending on the severity of your offences.

Now, griefers could always just travel to preform their badness if their curses/day blocks were just tagged to the quad they were cursed in. Maybe they're blocked out of being born there today but they just high tail back, their next life, and wrack up a big curse score in the NW whenever they want--high points! So what if it wasn't attached to where you were cursed but where you born? 1 curse is a 24hr ban to whichever quad you were born in. As the griefer get shuttled through the four quadrants (supposing they are effectively cursed in time by their victims which is it's own problem, it seems) then after 4 strikes, they're done for the day. It's hard to imagine a situation where you get into 4 separate fights with 4 separate people in all 4 corners of the map and don't deserve a timeout. In a coordinated attack you might be griefed out of a quadrant as 5 people curse your life/birth place, but it would take a greater effort, and much more time, to have to wait for you to be born in each quadrant THEN curse, to bounce you out of the rift completely. Like, multiple people, online, same time, finding you, over a few to several hours... I mean, I don't know a system that's going to be really ironclad against that type of attack in the first place...

But, if you were born to a town (within a quadrant), and caused a ruckus, you would be blocked for some time, and if you came back to that town while you're still cursed (on block/probation) and cause even more havoc you'd be blocked from the quad you came from too leaving you just two more chances to be born in the rift while you still got curses out on your name. I mean, I think you could write it up so that if you only have 1 available quad to be born in THAT sends you to DT, giving you just three "separate" offences in a day before you're bounced out for at least 24 hours... but likely more if you were out on mission to cause pain and were then cursed by multiple people in multiple areas. Obviously this tracker would extended through arcs as well, which is great, but within individual arcs it would be fantastic. It could be weighted too maybe, so that 1 curse in a quad is worth half a day but 2 curses is more than a full day, 3 curses is almost two full days, so and so forth. Idk, the neatness of a 1 day ban on a quad is attractive--still plenty of quads to play in--but it might be too strong against petty squabbles. Anyway...

The more people you hurt the longer you're kicked out, but minor offences and squabbles don't rack up against you too punitively.

Last edited by Anhigen (2019-09-26 00:43:01)

jasonrohrer · 2019-09-25 22:19:55

Yeah, twisted, I'm counting total curses, not just for those from people online.

Total curses is a measure of "how many people you've bugged" recently.

If you bug a lot of people, your blocking radius grows.

Right now, pretty much no one goes to d-town.

With this change, I'm hopefully tweaking it a bit in the other direction, so that guy with 94 curses probably always goes to d-town, and will struggle to find a time when no one online is blocking him from the whole rift.

Here's the change (not live yet):

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/ … 665f32d89a

The comment explains how it works.

What I like about this is that it's a "soft" system. First, it has two fine-grained parameter that I can tweak (curse duration, currently 7 days, and starting radius, currently 200). By tweaking those, I can adjust precisely how hard or easy life is for the widely-cursed players.

Second, it's "soft" in that the effects of being cursed come on gradually. As you are cursed a bit, there are fewer and fewer spots on the map where you can be born. You might start to notice that. Less family variety, gradually. Then, when you're cursed even more, you will find that there are more and more times when you can't be born at all, and go to d-town. This isn't a fixed sentence, but randomly-changing black-out windows for you that grow more and more dense as you keep getting cursed more. You will probably never get to the point where you can't play in the rift ever, but you may get to the point where 75% of the time, you can't manage to get born there.

But all this comes on gradually. The game essentially gets less interesting and more and more of a PITA to play as you get cursed more and more.

And if you change your ways, and stop getting cursed, the effects fade out just as gradually. Your total curse score drops (one point per 7 days), so your radius shrinks, and you fall off of people's curse lists (also after 7 days), so fewer people block you.

Finally, in terms of ME not defining "bad" for you, that's really important. Some people don't want to play with berry munchers. Others don't want to play with RP-ers. Others don't want to play with racists. Or with people who swear. Or with bossy people.... or with fence-builders.

You decide, for yourself, who you want to block, and they are blocked INSTANTLY for 7 days from getting born into your world. You might be the only person in the world who cares about what you care about, and you might never convince others to help you get rid of this person who specifically annoys you. But you don't have to. Curse them, and they're gone for you.

By doing this, over time, you will be able to curate a group of people who share your sensibilities.

Thaulos · 2019-09-25 23:59:11

4 curses is too low of a threshold imo. Maybe increase more slowly? One misunderstanding in town and a player can be forced out for a week.

This feature should impact people who are cursed consistently.

It could also make sense to decrease the score somehow (remove oldest curse token?) after one hour of donkey town instead of having a flat off-game token. People can just alternate accounts to bypass donkey town entirely if tokens are based solely on a relatively low amount of offline time. Having cursed players play off the curses instead of just waiting would make it a lot more difficult to cheat the system.

Last edited by Thaulos (2019-09-26 00:01:34)

wondible · 2019-09-26 01:28:23

Sample rift coverage at radius 50:

200:

400: (1 curse)

Of course if you have one curse only one circle applies

DestinyCall · 2019-09-26 02:10:00

I like it.

I can see why 50 tile radius didn't accomplish much. The whole Rift would need to hate your guts before you had any chance of going to DT. 200 tiles is much more reasonable.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-09-26 02:17:23)

miskas · 2019-09-26 06:58:00

Jason, what's the range of a curse by name? can I curse someone 200 tiles away?

if yes you might need to fix that so griefers don't co-op via discord to mass curse a random person
and they have to be actually there.

Last edited by miskas (2019-09-26 06:58:29)

Twisted · 2019-09-26 09:24:59

I agree with Thaulos, 200 by 200 seems a bit extreme. I feel like it's too easy to get caught in the crossfire.

Also, curse points going down at a rate of one per week seems a bit extreme. If I get born at the same time as one other person and I decide to be a jerk to them, I can curse them twice in one life (since it takes 30 minutes for curse tokens to regenerate). If I cooperate with one other person (or have a second account) we can set their curse score from 0 to 4 in half an hour, basically exiling them to Donkey Town for a week whenever I'm playing.

I've always been a proponent for more strict and more efficient cursing, but this seems a bit too much.

IMO the best solution would be to only look at currently online people when counting someone's curse score.

MrShuriken · 2019-09-26 09:46:04

Just keep the 200x200 radius and if 8 or more people are playing who have you cursed you go to donkey town
Make it so you regain curse token per hour instead of 1/2 an hour.
If your total curse thing is over 30 curses you go to donkey town
Per hour in donkey town lived is -1 curses to your total curse score.
You can curse a recently dead person, yet only for 5 minutes
You can curse a person only if their grave or they are within a 50x50 block of you

seth · 2019-09-26 12:28:22

Hey I am a player who usually plays once or twice a month, so I'm realizing cursing people won't do a whole lot for me.. I wonder, is it possible for the curse to last for 7 days, but for that counter to only decrease on days the person who did the cursing plays the game?

That way, you're assured at least 6 games where the curse is in affect (assuming you don't play again on day 1)

... also, I know that cursing doesn't affect where I'm born, but if I really don't want to play with a person who enjoys spewing bigoted slurs, I'd like the game to not make me born near them either.. I wonder what the implications are if there's a slight preference to be born away from people you've cursed.. Probably using a smaller radius than is used for the person who is cursed.

Last edited by seth (2019-09-26 12:33:29)

wondible · 2019-09-26 13:02:04

pein wrote:

Wondible, on a square based map, the radius of diagonals are same as sides, when talking about tiles, so the circle is a square, no?

That may get a little weird for small numbers like bow range, or for pathing were you can't take the "crow flies" route, but the curse is straight up distance. I was going for the big picture of how radius interacts with area and population density.

double distance( doublePair inA, doublePair inB ) {
    double delX = inA.x - inB.x;
    double delY = inA.y - inB.y;
    
    return sqrt( delX * delX + delY * delY );
    }

jasonrohrer · 2019-09-26 16:00:53

Yes, this cursing stuff happens with circles, not squares.

Wondible, if you only have 1 curse, which puts your radius up to 400, then there would only be one circle on the map at most for you, right?

Even so, I see how 400 (which is greater than the radius of the rift) is too much.

Twisted, I hear your suggestion. However, I worry that even for a widely-cursed player, the chances of multiple people who cursed them being online at the same time is small. I'll check, though.

wondible · 2019-09-26 16:18:52

jasonrohrer wrote:

Wondible, if you only have 1 curse, which puts your radius up to 400, then there would only be one circle on the map at most for you, right?
Even so, I see how 400 (which is greater than the radius of the rift) is too much.

My understanding of the code is 1 curse = 1 circle. In the image you can kind of make out the outlines of some circles, but it's not the best illustration for that case. However my understanding is also "curse + 1" means the minimum radius is 400 if you have to worry about blocking at all, but I haven't read it that closely.

It does seem like rift radius is the rough breakpoint between "leaving space open" and "blocking everything"

jasonrohrer · 2019-09-26 16:49:04

The most-cursed player currently has 104 active curses against them (104 distinct people have cursed them w/in the last 7 days).

There are currently 56 people alive on BS2.

Of those people, 13 of them have outstanding curses against the most-cursed player in the game.

For the 3rd-most cursed player, with 32 curses, there are currently 4 curse-holding people online.

So that's pretty good. More than I was expecting. I guess the radius can scale with that number.

But for someone way down the list with only 10 curses, there are currently 0 curse-holding people online. And this is the case that I'm worried about. Bugging 10 people is quite a lot, and this person slips through the cracks.

However, it's interesting that if you bug a bunch of people in a row, those people will still be online, and you'll find you're stuck in d-town for the time being (until enough of those people go offline), so it has a nice soft temporality to it.

I'll do it.

Whatever · 2019-09-26 16:58:19

jasonrohrer wrote:

The most-cursed player currently has 104 active curses against them (104 distinct people have cursed them w/in the last 7 days).

if i search for this hash: ebd7fe6217f9d4765528ac7c10aef1091c31384d
then i dont find anything today or yesterday, but i find 177 curses for the 24th
here: http://publicdata.onehouronelife.com/pu … uesday.txt

jasonrohrer · 2019-09-26 17:22:36

Yes, that curse log is for the old, old, old system.

It's still correctly logging when someone curses someone else (so you can see that happening in those logs).

But since then, the local curse tracking was replaced with a centralized server, and then after that, the centralized server was replaced with a new kind of person-to-person local curse tracking.

That curse log is a vestige of the original curse system.

miskas · 2019-09-27 07:08:48

Has any of the new cursing systems gone live?

I watch changes on GitHub but don't they need an update to be implemented in game?

Last edited by miskas (2019-09-27 08:02:45)

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2019-09-25 18:13:23

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#27 2019-09-25 18:18:40

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#28 2019-09-25 18:38:40

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#29 2019-09-25 18:50:01

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#30 2019-09-25 19:08:19

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#31 2019-09-25 19:13:57

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#32 2019-09-25 19:38:51

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#33 2019-09-25 19:50:07

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#34 2019-09-25 20:25:33

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#35 2019-09-25 20:37:47

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#36 2019-09-25 22:19:55

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#37 2019-09-25 23:59:11

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#38 2019-09-26 01:28:23

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#39 2019-09-26 02:10:00

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#40 2019-09-26 06:58:00

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#41 2019-09-26 09:24:59

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#42 2019-09-26 09:46:04

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#43 2019-09-26 12:28:22

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#44 2019-09-26 13:02:04

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#45 2019-09-26 16:00:53

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#46 2019-09-26 16:18:52

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#47 2019-09-26 16:49:04

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#48 2019-09-26 16:58:19

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#49 2019-09-26 17:22:36

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

#50 2019-09-27 07:08:48

Re: A whoops on the curse radius

Board footer