Scattered ethnic, privilege and race comments in the forums.........

Redhawk · 2018-04-09 00:13:42

I have seen these comments more frequently lately, although not too often.
As they increase my general thought is when you start with these charged statements you just increase your chances of decreasing the impact of any good idea you may ultimately want to get across.

It's funny, in the game you often help some anonymous player with out knowing who, what or where they are, why not act that way in the forum.
It's a game, leave the crap for the real world.

And no I'm not offended by trash talk......... I'm just tired of it.

Alleria · 2018-04-09 00:21:00

There are only two threads that I've come across that have any semblance to what you're referring to. It's 2018, you need a thicker skin, no offence :3

Redhawk · 2018-04-09 00:45:29

Don't matter how think a skin I got, I can always politely ask not to be subject to peoples issues..........

don't matter if it's 2018 or 50 years ago...... no offence :3

Joriom · 2018-04-09 00:47:13

Posts like that will not be prohibited if they don't cross certain line. Nor will arguing with those posts be prohibited. The fastest way for YOU to help solve the problem (is you see it as a problem) is to... IGNORE them. Thats official stance.

powa · 2018-04-09 01:20:04

I think the community benefits from lots of different people thinking about things from different perspectives. Unfortunately what is just a joke to some are actually pretty hurtful and discouraging to others, effectively neutering communities over time to unnecessarily small subsets of people.

This really isn't a complicated issue, happens all over the internet and it's widely accepted as unfortunate in most cases. People are generally much more polite irl public forums. Well, this is basically a public forum. It would be nice if we try to hold it to a similar standard. Especially the regular users with lots of apparent, and real, sway. Notice, I'm not advocating anything like banning or even calling anyone out. Just suggesting we try to see things from the perspective of those where the jokes are similar to real threats.

Of course, remember "sticks and stones", as was said. Great advice. On the other side of the same coin, try to avoid harmful speech if you can help it.

Edit: Not literally a public forum, I suppose, but it basically is.

Last edited by powa (2018-04-09 01:25:11)

Joriom · 2018-04-09 01:27:07

powa wrote:

Unfortunately what is just a joke to some are actually pretty hurtful and discouraging to others

If you get hurt by mere words you don't deserve to live. This whole idea of "condeming hate speach" and "having safe spaces" is going to die off very soon along with people spreading those. They're just not fit to live and will suicide or die out of starvation when they can't provide for themselves. Both in game and IRL. No point in prolonging their mysery with social welfare.

Last edited by Joriom (2018-04-09 01:27:48)

powa · 2018-04-09 01:29:05

Joriom wrote:

powa wrote:
Unfortunately what is just a joke to some are actually pretty hurtful and discouraging to others
If you get hurt by mere words you don't deserve to live. This whole idea of "condeming hate speach" and "having safe spaces" is going to die off very soon along with people spreading those. They're just not fit to live and will suicide or die out of starvation when they can't provide for themselves. Both in game and IRL. No point in prologing their mysery with social welfare.

Sorry, are you saying that you've never been hurt by someone's words? Even if so, which would be extremely rare, are you saying that people who experience some emotions in some circumstances don't deserve to live?

ned · 2018-04-09 01:39:32

Joriom wrote:

powa wrote:
Unfortunately what is just a joke to some are actually pretty hurtful and discouraging to others
If you get hurt by mere words you don't deserve to live. This whole idea of "condeming hate speach" and "having safe spaces" is going to die off very soon along with people spreading those. They're just not fit to live and will suicide or die out of starvation when they can't provide for themselves. Both in game and IRL. No point in prolonging their mysery with social welfare.

I can see someone has pent-up rage against a world that doesn't accept him. I'm sorry if something happened to you, or if you're going through a tough time.

Redhawk · 2018-04-09 01:39:36

Joriom wrote:

Posts like that will not be prohibited if they don't cross certain line. Nor will arguing with those posts be prohibited. The fastest way for YOU to help solve the problem (is you see it as a problem) is to... IGNORE them. Thats official stance.

You used the word " problem" and you pointed to me with "YOU"..........

I actually said it didn't offend me, it just might retard constructive conversation.

Personally, I find the "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" three monkeys mentality more harmful than "bad jokes"

and i won't even get political by going down the hate speech road..... tempted as I may be, but here I'd rather figure how to live a good hour long life.

Anyways, I have enjoyed Alleria and Joriom's other posts.....no need to argue.

YAHG · 2018-04-09 02:14:33

Nah fuck ignoring them, mock em, tell them to go back to reddit from whence they came.

mikekchar · 2018-04-09 02:31:32

I hate conversations like this one (so I shouldn't participate, should I ;-) ).

Did I see it here? (my memory is terrible): Society flourishes when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in -- Greek proverb. Pretty much what this game is about. One of the best parts of this game, IMHO, is death -- it forces a sense of detachment. Why are you building a city when you won't be around to see it? Especially, you are so busy in this game that even when you have a great city, it's hard to find time to enjoy it. I think it's actually a shame that many players try to be reborn in the same village over and over again. But I understand how hard it is to let go.

I find it interesting, though slightly uncomfortable, to see many parallels in the game to real life. I'm willing to wager that I'm older than the vast majority of other players of this game. I've had a number of experiences and my naivety is long gone. Even still, I cringe when I see threads about granting life only to children who know the secret code. I am unsurprised, but saddened, when I see frank comments about murdering fellow villagers who don't do as they are told. When resources are scarce and risk is high, we can't afford to feed players with whom we disagree. As an aside, I'm not entirely in sync with Jason's belief that only by making survival more difficult will we avoid griefers -- because it is only excess which affords society mercy. Indeed, it is only idleness that allows us to think, enjoy time, research and grow. Without idleness, none of us would be playing this game.

Getting to the point (finally), the forums are a community. It is a real community, not a game. It is easy to think (and to act) as if you have no time, no energy, no ability and no desire to accommodate other ways of thinking. My time is precious to me and I do not wish to waste it on fools. If I won't even give you a carrot in the game because you have a different point of view, how much less likely am I to give you my time? And yet why should an old man plant a tree?

Deciding on an acceptable form of etiquette is no different than deciding not to let carrots go to seed. Each person is a resource and our resources are finite. If you waste them, they will not come back. Eventually our community will die, just as surely as it does in the game. Acting skillfully, we can build something bigger before we all die (as we must). It is not through ruthless action to minimise use that you will succeed, but rather by creating excess.

Joriom · 2018-04-09 02:58:55

mikekchar wrote:

It is not through ruthless action to minimise use that you will succeed, but rather by creating excess.

And thats basically whats ruining our planet now. Its not saving strategy. Thats way to ruin that pushes consumerism and tells people they need more and more every day.

Redhawk wrote:

Joriom wrote:
Posts like that will not be prohibited if they don't cross certain line. Nor will arguing with those posts be prohibited. The fastest way for YOU to help solve the problem (is you see it as a problem) is to... IGNORE them. Thats official stance.
You used the word " problem" and you pointed to me with "YOU"..........
[...]
Personally, I find the "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" three monkeys mentality more harmful than "bad jokes"

And I also added disclaimer - sorry for the typo. I often write to fast and hardly triple check. That was supposed to mean "IF you see it as a problem" - which I understood you don't. But statement is pointed at everyone.

Also... Tell that to Jason.
I do not agree with "ignoring" strategy, but thats what Jason dictates. Thats why I called it "official stance".

Thexus · 2018-04-09 05:22:49

Please, ignore bait threads like these. Don't reply to them and just report them to me. The OP is on the watch list, if the posts anything about politics/hate speech/cyber bullying... anything not game related, he will get a nice 1-week ban. This forum is not the place to discuss sensitive topics, because they will start a shitstorm (like this), if you really want to do it, then do it in private, there is no need for others to know your opinion, especially not on a game forum. I will leave this thread here, just to be an example. I don't like to collectively punish every replier, but i will, if talking about this continues. Let this be a warn to everyone: Ignore Bair Threads.

powa · 2018-04-09 05:34:31

Excuse me,

By what criteria would the OP be banned? On what grounds should this thread be reported?

This is one small thread in a sea of many, often of repeated topic. If there is worry that the forums are too cluttered, why not attempt to sticky more common knowledge things before banning topics? It is apparently the opinion of those here that the conversation is worth having.

How is this a "shitstorm"? How is this thread more of a "bait thread" then any other? Why else would someone make a post if they weren't trying to bring attention?

It would be reasonable to move the thread to a separate off-topic or meta section of the forum if necessary. But is it really so bad to allow willing members of the community to talk about an issue that they think is relevant in the long run?

Thexus · 2018-04-09 05:52:01

Powa, we will not make an Off-Topic section on a game forum. I just warned the OP to keep his political beliefs out of the ohol forums. I will only delete the thread if the shitstorm continues (you are continuing it). Yes, this is a small thread, but these threads are permanent, you can see them after years. The forum is not yet cluttered, because we have a moderator, who dont let it clutter. We don't have rules, because this is a really small, but I will make a rules section if needed. They are having opinions about topics that are unrelated to the game. This is a shitstorm, because everyone is pissed, and aggressive. This is a bait thread, because OP started this thread out of thin air (actually, this is a continued shitstorm from a thread that i deleted to keeo the forums clean), and it was likely to cause a shitstorm (it did). Bait threads are attention whoring threads. This thing is irrelevant in the long run, because this is a game forum, not a subreddit, or an image board.

Please, ignore threads that are unrelated to the game.

Drakulon · 2018-04-09 05:59:23

powa wrote:

But is it really so bad to allow willing members of the community to talk about an issue that they think is relevant in the long run?

This thread has no purpose.
What positive things do you expect this thread to bring?
It will only create anger.
This forum is to talk about the game, i am glad we have Thexus.

Thexus · 2018-04-09 06:05:53

Thanks, Drakulon

But i think it's better to have examples, than plain rules

"Don't post nsfw" does this include renaissance art?
"Don't post unrelated topic" can i reply with an unrelated example?

Rules are often misleading

powa · 2018-04-09 06:10:10

I am sorry you both feel that this conversation is not worth having. I disagree. Often tough conversations lead to reflection, even if upsetting. Speaking for the underdog is the path to civility, wherever that may be, even if so inconvenient as in a gaming community.

However, I respect your opinions and work on this forum so I will leave it at that.

TrustyWay · 2018-04-09 10:15:07

I had a game where my mom killed me because i was white, It made me laugh, I was fine with it. Then I was black and abandoned by a white family, I laugh too. I had a mom called pimp and me bitch, funny life. I have been in the trump family, there were the same players as awlays but with a funny name. I have been called nigeria once, but I didn't mind, my mom was lovely. I had a game where I had to hide my gender to the old man/chief/guard/birth controler dude, my mom fully clothed me and we lied so I didn't get killed. I have been backstab many times for the crown. I have been almost kill by a crowned woman for asking why she was doing nothing. I have killed some people because I think they were useless, I have been chased away, other times killed for browsing around.

Ignoring things you don't like and having fun is the easiest, simpliest and less head taking way than being offended. Offended ?

World is very rude, you can't make it nicer by being offended. That is not how that works. Two angry people never agree with each others. Two cool dudes respect each others.

Last edited by TrustyWay (2018-04-09 10:37:20)

mikekchar · 2018-04-09 12:24:20

I honestly thought it was a respectful discussion geared towards helping people enjoy their time better on the forums. I'm a little bit taken aback by the moderation. Certainly there are differences of opinion, but I've got to say that in my opinion everyone listened and reacted thoughtfully. I certainly respect that there are rules for the forum and I will try to respect them, but I would ask that if there are such rules, can you please let me know where they are (or lacking such rules, please post some in a conspicuous place). I'm sure there's a lot more context that I can't see, but just on the face of it, it seems a bit arbitrary.

Thexus · 2018-04-09 12:43:15

nop, it wasnt a respectful discussion:

If you get hurt by mere words you don't deserve to live. This whole idea of "condeming hate speach" and "having safe spaces" is going to die off very soon along with people spreading those. They're just not fit to live and will suicide or die out of starvation when they can't provide for themselves. Both in game and IRL. No point in prolonging their mysery with social welfare.

And, no, this wasn't a respectful conversation in the first place. This is a continued thread, about a thread that i deleted becuse of spreading nazism. Jason doesn't like to make rules, because of this, i will not make my own rules on his Forum, but please, have some common sense. I try to keep out off-topic things, especially politics. Please, don't start a thread about that your mom named you "trump", THEN (this is the important part) talk about his presidency and introduce others to your political beliefs. This just doesn't belong to a game forum.

mikekchar · 2018-04-09 13:40:25

OK. Fair enough. If I can squeak in one more piece of feedback before I go: it can help in moderation to help people understand basic guidelines. Common sense is tricky in an international forum because common sense is often very culturally based (I once did a workshop about culture in Japan. I had people hold a debate about methods of bathing, just to show them how tricky cultural issues could be. I actually had to break up fights :-) ). I can see that you are a no nonsense moderator and that's always nice to see. However, it makes things much easier to understand if you calmly explain what's going on (explain it like I'm 5 is a nice meme to follow). I will admit that I have difficulty with this forum's culture and it makes it hard for me to contribute. I suspect this is true for other people as well.

fragilityh14 · 2018-04-09 14:57:13

other than someone inexplicably being upset about the last name Trump i haven't seen any of these problems.

Also what are "privilege comments"

Btw, I definitely used the above-mentioned Greek proverb, though it is quite famous and relevant to this game so someone else could have.

The great British journalist and agrarian William Cobbett told a similar story, which was probably a fable and not a real story. Essentially, three younger men laughed at an old man for taking the time to plant and care for a tree, on the grounds that he would never have time to enjoy it, then all three of them died in various ways (war, drowned in the harbor, disease) and the old man was still alive to enjoy the fruit because he had been there taking care of the tree instead of getting himself killed seeking adventure.

That story also relates to this game lol

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#1 2018-04-09 00:13:42

Scattered ethnic, privilege and race comments in the forums.........

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