Infinite + Rift

juliakanakis · 2019-10-16 02:51:05

What's great about the rift:
- you run into other families
- its easy to find abandoned camps

What's great about infinite map:
- its easy to find untouched milkweed and go "eve" if you want to
- a town that's fun to live in doesnt have to die just because the local oil is gone

I would really love to try a hybrid between an infinite map and the rift.
This mountain-range/river-basin inspired geometric pattern limits the map on the north and west edges, but continues the pattern infinitely in the east and south directions.

This would preserve the "running into other players" that happens in a limited rectangle, because of the intersection points of the enclaves in the pattern: From every cell there is a "down stream" direction where you are likely to find other folks who are looking to run into other families as well.

It would also allow players to extend their town's life after local resources become scarce: if your enclave runs out of oil, your family can move downstream and start a new town.

@Jason: I'd love to try this shape rift for a week or two on bigserver2. Please randomly rotate it a multiple of 90 degrees and don't tell us which way ends up being north.

The choice of scale for the pattern will certainly affect the gameplay but I'd be excited to try it regardless of what size you think would be best.

JackTreehorn · 2019-10-16 03:55:54

I really like this idea for several reasons:
- this would be quite fun to map the maze if it changed each rift.
-Perhaps you could mine through a wall to connect to more resources
-Lots of choke points to guard, It might encourage the capture and control of land.
-You may get lost in the maze which would spice things up.
-it could make resources rarer because its not as easy to navigate the maze and find that one thing you were looking for.

Best idea I've seen in quite some time.

Last edited by JackTreehorn (2019-10-16 04:02:42)

pein · 2019-10-16 06:13:47

my suggestion was multiple rifts, you could escape, for a price, then the others would start over in the old rift, the new rift wouldn't be affected by the old ones, and would be bigger

sadly we don't really have enough players to use more space or such

juliakanakis · 2019-10-16 13:05:57

Here's an image that highlights that it's not really a maze: it's a very regular fractal pattern.
It's still possible to get lost trying to find a specific place upstream, but it's impossible to get lost going downstream, if you pay attention.

denriguez · 2019-10-16 15:39:57

Oh, this is super interesting. I love your mountain/river framing--that's a great way to think about it. Unlimited space, nearly unlimited resources, but very limited mobility and very limited access to those resources, as it is IRL. If each major enclave (say, something the size of the current rift) had only one "downstream" exit, I think we'd be much more likely to exhaust an area's resources before migrating. Access to oil and other resources are naturally controlled by topographical barriers, creating the possibility for local control of resources, and thus (possibly) trade, markets at enclave intersections, etc. Cars and planes would have a use again.

Combine this with clever Eve placement and I think we'd see some really, really interesting gameplay.

One obvious issue would be gating off an area's only exit, either for protection or through griefing. It might help if it was possible to build across barriers (bridges, e.g.), making it so that there's never any certainty that a river would be a sufficient town wall.

Coconut Fruit · 2019-10-16 16:18:49

Playing in such a maze feels weird. Idk, I probably don't like this idea.

DestinyCall · 2019-10-16 19:57:12

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Playing in such a maze feels weird. Idk, I probably don't like this idea.

We are playing in a box right now. This would just mean we could play inside a box with a hole in one corner. Is it really that weird?

I think it is brilliant.

antking:]# · 2019-10-16 21:12:48

It looks great I hope Jason tries it, if it doesn't work then it doesn't work, if it does, I can't wait to see the affects it has on game play

though it still bothers me that the map is infinite because All world have there boundaries, like we don't have unlimited space on Earth

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-16 21:31:41

I'm not sure about the pattern itself.

But the idea of having a rift only in one corner (like NW) and having the map spread infinitely in the other direction (like to the SW) is interesting.

It gives you some reference point to navigate by, and a direction to walk if you want to find people (NW) vs if you want to find wilderness (SW).

Walking NW concentrates people. Walking SW spreads them out.

I have also thought about stuff like:

--Running the current limited Eve spiral and Eve window and arc stuff, but without any border at all. There's an invisible box where all the Eves spawn, but after that, people can go wherever.

Twisted · 2019-10-16 21:37:08

jasonrohrer wrote:

I have also thought about stuff like:
--Running the current limited Eve spiral and Eve window and arc stuff, but without any border at all. There's an invisible box where all the Eves spawn, but after that, people can go wherever.

I really really really like this. I thought about it as well but I figured you'd be against it since I thought the point of the rift was to introduce a limited playspace.

Kinrany · 2019-10-17 00:21:11

It's also similar to the tutorial lands, the Doomed City book, and the superstructure in Pushing Ice.

I think it's super cool to shape the civilization by literally shaping the environment they live in.

The question is, what should the civilization be like in the game, and what shape would make people naturally follow that plan?

This is basically playing God, yay. Though so is the rest of game design, I guess?

Last edited by Kinrany (2019-10-17 00:22:05)

TitaniaDioxide · 2019-10-17 03:30:33

jasonrohrer wrote:

I have also thought about stuff like:
--Running the current limited Eve spiral and Eve window and arc stuff, but without any border at all. There's an invisible box where all the Eves spawn, but after that, people can go wherever.

YES!!! Especially if there’s a way to create landmarks to orient us (like the wild roads suggestion, or making the Eve Box in the static corner).

I could also see tweaking the Eve spiral generation to bias towards 0,0. This wouldn’t be useful for a short Eve window, but with a long, periodic, or permanent Eve window, you could make it so that the new spiral center is within some distance of where the old spiral ended, but more likely to be closer to 0,0. I’m sort of imagining it as a random walk with bias, which there are lots of mathematical papers about (I’m a nerd, in case you couldn’t tell).

That unsolicited suggestion aside - I would 100% be behind the no-rift-with-rift-attribute experiment, or the two-walled rift, and 150% behind a riftless variation with landmarks.

Melea · 2019-10-17 03:53:57

jasonrohrer wrote:

I have also thought about stuff like:
--Running the current limited Eve spiral and Eve window and arc stuff, but without any border at all. There's an invisible box where all the Eves spawn, but after that, people can go wherever.

This sounds a lot more interesting to me, especially if there were wild roads (game trails?) and if fast roads themselves were easier to make for connecting towns. Something simple like being able to move and contain whole stacks of flat stones, similar to how whole stacks of plates can be moved en mass could make roadway construction go a lot easier, even without increasing flat stone spawns.

Also, being able to make dirt paths as a precursor to flat stone roads or wood flooring would be great for town planning and connecting nearby towns. Use a round stone to make a temporary visual-only difference to the ground to lay out paths and building sites?

DestinyCall · 2019-10-17 03:56:50

TitaniaDioxide wrote:

I would 100% be behind the no-rift-with-rift-attribute experiment, or the two-walled rift, and 150% behind a riftless variation with landmarks.

Yeah, I would love to see unique natural landmarks in OHOL. It is something I feel was majorly lacking in the old infinite map.

I find that procedurally-generated landscapes tend to have that problem in most games that use them. In theory, the algorithms should create plenty of "unique" landmarks, but in reality, there are always too many variations on the same theme so eventually nothing looks unique or visually distinct. The first time you come across an unusually large concentration of ponds, it serves as a great landmark to remember that area, since you haven't seen anything quite like it before. But then you come across ANOTHER dense cluster of ponds and you can't be sure if this is the same cluster or another randomly generated cluster of ponds.

The walls of the rift are not that visually attractive, but they are very unique. There's only one north/south/east/west rift wall. There can't be any others, so if you find the wall, you know where you are in relation to the rest of the rift. And rift walls are very big. So large that they are literally impossible to miss.

Large oceans or mountain ranges could do the same thing. They might not be as singular at the rift walls, but they could be unique enough to serve the same purpose for navigation. And if there were other unique landmarks - ancient ruins, stone carvings, special resource deposits, etc ... that would make it easier to figure out your location and travel long distances. And a lot more fun to explore and see what you can find.

juliakanakis · 2019-10-17 15:55:18

How about this shape rift

DestinyCall · 2019-10-17 16:01:55

aaaaaaahhhhh my eyes!

JonySky · 2019-10-17 16:06:57

I'm sorry but I don't like this ... a lot of people are complaining about the rift and this post is intended to make a bigger rift ...

This does not solve any current problem of the game, it will not create more fun, more survival, or new challenges, (heck, do not even move now to get water 50 squares away!)

Let's make a "live" map as in Age of Empires that can be transferred from generation to generation! for example! or let's make earthquakes that generate cracks where we must create bridges to cross them! but the rift is a simple (and underdeveloped) idea to a basic problem in the game

StrongForce · 2019-10-18 13:29:34

There could be a soft border on two sides and the rift on the other two

By soft border I imagine thick forest you have to cut trough every once in a while

Or even better border that limits inports of resources
Like mountains you can only walk over.

This would have like a global trade effect
City's would need resource import from the county side to sustain the city

Last edited by StrongForce (2019-10-18 13:32:56)

StrongForce · 2019-10-18 13:37:46

One could run a private airport flying out to get kerosine and other non renewables
Then sell it to the citys.

Currency would also be super nice
Imagine getting your coinbag beim stolen on the market place.

WalrusesConquer · 2019-10-18 14:34:14

I don't think tarry spots spawn outside the rift

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-10-16 02:51:05

Infinite + Rift

#2 2019-10-16 03:55:54

Re: Infinite + Rift

#3 2019-10-16 06:13:47

Re: Infinite + Rift

#4 2019-10-16 13:05:57

Re: Infinite + Rift

#5 2019-10-16 15:39:57

Re: Infinite + Rift

#6 2019-10-16 16:18:49

Re: Infinite + Rift

#7 2019-10-16 19:57:12

Re: Infinite + Rift

#8 2019-10-16 21:12:48

Re: Infinite + Rift

#9 2019-10-16 21:31:41

Re: Infinite + Rift

#10 2019-10-16 21:37:08

Re: Infinite + Rift

#11 2019-10-17 00:21:11

Re: Infinite + Rift

#12 2019-10-17 03:30:33

Re: Infinite + Rift

#13 2019-10-17 03:53:57

Re: Infinite + Rift

#14 2019-10-17 03:56:50

Re: Infinite + Rift

#15 2019-10-17 15:55:18

Re: Infinite + Rift

#16 2019-10-17 16:01:55

Re: Infinite + Rift

#17 2019-10-17 16:06:57

Re: Infinite + Rift

#18 2019-10-18 13:29:34

Re: Infinite + Rift

#19 2019-10-18 13:37:46

Re: Infinite + Rift

#20 2019-10-18 14:34:14

Re: Infinite + Rift

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