Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

Whatever · 2019-10-17 05:56:52

Jason made 2 new commits for the next update:

~~rabbits no longer respawn:~~

~~There are 2204 rabbit holes on a sample rift, enough for 489 backpacks. Rabbits were respawning every two hours, leading to rabbit product overload. After snaring, rabbits no longer respawn.~~

~~https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeD … df65fc720b~~

ponds refill time changed from 2 hours to 168 hours (the apoc happens before a pond refills)

Put ponds on ice as a long term water source. They used to refill one bowl every 3 hours on average. Now they refill one bowl per week (168 hours). The problem is that I can't predict how many ponds are in a given area. 10 ponds over 24 hours will produce 80 bowls of water. Ponds are for bootstrapping only.

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeD … c3fc180ffe

~~Rabbit Update:~~

Reverting commit 825f235 . Rabbits respawn again with original timeframe, but snaring them requires bait. Early stages, this can be done with burdock in a kiln-free environment. Later, this can be done with mashed carrot/berry bowl. So snaring rabbits either uses an exhaustible natural resource (burdock) or a bowl of water (or in case of wild berries, at least some water for the domestic carrot).

~~https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeD … 575ee19667~~

Rabbit Update2:

Either bowl of berries/carrot OR burdock now can be spread on flat rock to make 3x rabbit bait. This number can be adjusted in the future for fine-grained controll of the cost of snaring a rabbit.

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeD … 186f71a3df

Last edited by Whatever (2019-10-19 19:43:26)

Dantox · 2019-10-17 06:13:07

Seems like an extreme change for me, both problems could have been resolved by making more food recipes from rabbits and making backpacks to decay again (could give opportunity to create permanent backpacks via cloth) and to expand decorative buildings like fur flooring.

Just my opinion tho, lets see how this goes on the weekend

DestinyCall · 2019-10-17 07:08:44

Next up ... berry bushes will no longer replenish.

CatX · 2019-10-17 09:49:30

Sigh. It feels a little like the current philosophy behind the game changes is "If you're not having fun I'm going to make sure you're having fun! Whether you like it or not!"

Twisted · 2019-10-17 09:51:59

I get the reasoning behind the rabbit change, but a big problem with it is that it makes rabbit clothes kind of a noob trap. It also gives us less things to do - no more rabbit hunting unless it's early on in the arc.

I also think it's a bit inelegant and heavy-handed - we already have different variations of rabbit holes, so why not make them exhaust over time (Family -> Single -> Abandoned), similar to Tarry Spots or Goose Ponds.

The good thing about it is that it makes the loom more attractive since rabbit fur clothes are now limited. That means there will be a greater visual distinction between early towns and advanced towns.

Of course if we also get rabbit domestication then this change is perfectly fine.

The pond change is fine IMO, but also kind of irrelevant since they were already largely useless as a water source once initially drained. You'd have to get super lucky to find 10 ponds in any given area, and even then 80 bowls of water over 24 hours is completely irrelevant. I'd say that most empty ponds get filled in anyway.

CatX · 2019-10-17 10:06:50

Why did people switch from fur to cloth in the real world?
Because it was more practical.
Why don't they switch in the game?
Because fur is more practical.
(And, hunting rabbits is more fun than farming berries and carrots.)
Change that, and people will use less fur.

I would prefer a farming update over rabbit extinction.

sigmen4020 · 2019-10-17 10:11:59

Twisted wrote:

I get the reasoning behind the rabbit change, but a big problem with it is that it makes rabbit clothes kind of a noob trap. It also gives us less things to do - no more rabbit hunting unless it's early on in the arc.

This is probably the biggest problem with this change. Since rabbits are limited you will need to get the most value out of them. And the biggest value you are going to get from rabbits are backpacks, since they never decay and can store 4 items. Would at least have been nice if he had also increased the decay timer on fur clothes so they last longer.

Well it's back to before the temp update where making anything but backpacks out of fur is a noob trap. Fur coat and shawl are definitely a no-go now. You are better off just hunting seal for those chestpieces now, since seal skins aren't used for anything else (Not that this wasn't the case before, but it's even more the case now.).

The_Anabaptist · 2019-10-17 10:39:20

CatX wrote:

Why did people switch from fur to cloth in the real world?
Because it was more practical.
Why don't they switch in the game?
Because fur is more practical.
(And, hunting rabbits is more fun than farming berries and carrots.)
Change that, and people will use less fur.
I would prefer a farming update over rabbit extinction.

More practical in real life? In his youth, my father could shoot over 200 jackrabbits a night for their pelts. No, it probably was a combination of over hunting and changing fashion tastes that forced the switch over. I definitely know that I don't see that density of jackrabbits around anymore.

Not that I want to stop rabbit hunting mind you. It is an exceedingly fun and satisfying activity in game. I think I will be fine with pond depletion. Hopefully people will just ignore them as a water source and start preserving them for their egg production.

The_Anabaptist

JonySky · 2019-10-17 11:07:58

CatX wrote:

Why did people switch from fur to cloth in the real world?

quick response ... textile industry and Industrial revolution
something that came before cars and airplanes and is nonexistent in OHOL

Coconut Fruit · 2019-10-17 11:25:33

I like this change. One thing that I'm worried about is that we need backpacks and they can be made only from rabbit furs. It's Easy thing to grieff, even in early arcs. People could spend their life on hunting rabbits and cutting furs with a flint.

Maybe there should be a way to make backpacks in looms.

miskas · 2019-10-17 12:06:26

As animal husbandry was introduced during the Neolithic, human communities got a steady source of hides.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_hide_materials

People in the ancient word preferred wool to be dressed though cause wool was probably cheaper than a Hide.

Ancient Greek clothing consisted of lengths of wool or linen
ancient Rome was also an unsewn length of wool cloth,
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GC … =5#imgrc=_

Last edited by miskas (2019-10-17 12:31:08)

fug · 2019-10-17 13:34:34

Another update based on removing a fun activity in hopes of balancing things without adding anything interesting. The problem with rabbits is you need 12.5 rabbits to fully dress one person which means if you are mass producing clothes you're getting a free 12.5 raw rabbits (13 if rounded up) every time you dress someone and these meats last forever. This means you are producing 130 pips worth of food just to dress someone if plain cooking them or 728 pips worth of food if you are baking them all into regular rabbit pies. Considering you are making someone clothes this is more food than they need during their ENTIRE LIFETIME which is where the biggest problem of rabbits come from. Add in like I said these rabbits sit around indefinitely someone making people clothing is producing lifetimes amount of food for 1-2+ citizens just by going out of their way to reduce the food need of the town.

Jason should be targeting all the "free" food sources instead of just focusing on stuff like rabbits: Make mutton and raw rabbit decay, wild gooseberries shouldn't regrow berries if all picked, geese should eventually stop laying eggs, and cactus fruit should eventually stop spawning. All he is doing by nerfing rabbits is changing how people dress early game which most people don't care about anyways. Before sheep everyone should have mouflon hides (10 hr decay time) and reed skirts (lasts indefinitely) then once you get tools/sheep you move to making straw hats (again indefinitely) and now that rabbit shoes are off the table wooden clogs are the shoes of choice. While its interesting to shake things up his scope should be on all the free foods and not just rabbits as hunting rabbits is an enjoyable activity that is being gutted for "muh difficulty."

Coconut Fruit · 2019-10-17 13:49:44

fug wrote:

or 728 pips worth of food if you are baking them all into regular rabbit pies. Considering you are making someone clothes this is more food than they need during their ENTIRE LIFETIME

Tho rabbit clothes decay after 5h. It's not like people will willingly hunt rabbits once they are out around the town. Rabbits will be a pretty rare food in a little bit older arcs.

fug wrote:

Another update based on removing a fun activity in hopes of balancing things without adding anything interesting.

It actually adds something interesting. People will have less clothes, they will eat more foods, water will go out faster. We need more survival in more developed towns to make it less boring.

Spoonwood · 2019-10-17 14:14:56

sigmen4020 wrote:

This is probably the biggest problem with this change.

I don't think I agree. The biggest problem lies in that a set of bellows requires a rabbit fur to make. Griefers just hide bellows over and over again (who wants to cut trees with hungry work also?), and soon enough a town can't use a kiln. Removing bellows and killing off the rabbit supply, could kill off the possibility of a town making an oil rig or diesel engine well before they can get there.

Also, fug has a good point that this just removes a simple activity that many players have found enjoyable. I remember one of my first lives way back in December hunting rabbits and people were satisfied having backpacks.

Coconut Fruit wrote:

It actually adds something interesting. People will have less clothes, they will eat more foods, water will go out faster. We need more survival in more developed towns to make it less boring.

This won't be interesting for many people. Survival games don't actually work by the developed state hanging a precipice. Being on the brink of starvation for the entire game even with superior play isn't something that has mass market appeal from what I can. For example, though you can definitely die early on in various ways in Rimworld and Oxygen Not Included, people relish in solving the early game challenges that can kill their people. They like getting their settlements to a point of self-sustainability.

Perhaps you'd like this more, and perhaps Jason personally would, but this whole trend of Jason's trying to turn his game into a state where experienced players will die before 60 more often than not, isn't likely to strike players as fun. Food decay? Yea, I can see that working. No rabbits replenishing (and seriously... what reason exists to believe that domestication is coming?) and thus no way to replace bellows? Nope. Not a good idea, and plenty of people here know that.

So this looks like yet another change that no one asked for, no one wanted, and gets thought up in a vacuum by Jason without any serious understanding of people's preferences.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-10-17 14:16:05)

JonySky · 2019-10-17 14:15:07

Clothes are no problem at OHOL.
If you were born in a city where there is nothing to dress, you only need to go through some tiles in any direction and you will surely find some corpse completely dressed
I haven't created any piece of leather or cotton for months

This change does not solve any current problems ...
nobody has requested it, nobody has complained about this

The current temperature is not a problem either, I have been able to survive practically naked, you just need to eat more often

and long ago I also said that the game is based excessively on a death by starvation ... that's why it's necessary to implement winters and summers to change the boring dynamics of cities and towns

Last edited by JonySky (2019-10-17 14:21:58)

fug · 2019-10-17 14:20:31

Coconut Fruit wrote:

People will have less clothes, they will eat more foods, water will go out faster. We need more survival in more developed towns to make it less boring.

People will just shift clothing types instead which will only slightly increase food required per person per hour. Instead of seeing rabbit fur outfits you'll see:

Straw hat/Bowler/Santa
Sheep skin/seal skin/mouflon hide/loom top
Reed skirt/Pants
Sandals/Snakeskin boots/Clogs
Backpack/Cloak

And do you want to know a secret? Almost none of that what so ever decays. Only the mouflon hide out of the chests decays, the pants don't decay, backpack/cloaks don't decay, and the only decaying shoe type you make can be turned into a nondecaying shoe. All you are doing is shifting people from doing one activity that can be done all arc long into rushing them to do early clothes then rushing a loom and to be frank the rushing is what is bad about the game right now.

Early game is the only really polished part of ohol and instead of him trying to push us to end game faster and faster he should be working to slow the game down instead. Once you reach mid game/late game it stops really having things you have to do and becomes moreso a game of "what shall I do?"

Changing rabbits alone isn't going to add any significant challenge to the game but instead will just detract from what players can do within the game.

JonySky · 2019-10-17 14:28:01

Coconut Fruit wrote:

fug wrote:
Another update based on removing a fun activity in hopes of balancing things without adding anything interesting.
It actually adds something interesting. People will have less clothes, they will eat more foods, water will go out faster. We need more survival in more developed towns to make it less boring.

when you or any player wants to create a satellite city or a city far from everything from 0 ... you just can't ... I don't see fun here

antking:]# · 2019-10-17 14:35:56

Well, now we will not see any fur cloths, people will just rush the loom... thanks Jason for making the endgame come faster what's next? Milkweed decays if not picked

Whatever · 2019-10-17 14:43:05

Another feature jason is working on is to make nearby springs disappear after you created well, so villages can't have multiple wells and its harder for them to get water.
But i am not sure if this will actually happen and how it will work, just a theory for now.

Dantox · 2019-10-17 15:27:15

Whatever wrote:

Another feature jason is working on is to make nearby springs disappear after you created well, so villages can't have multiple wells and its harder for them to get water.
But i am not sure if this will actually happen and how it will work, just a theory for now.

Hopefully it will get added, i thought that the whole point of the rift and the springs was to prevent villagers to have infinite/easy water and resources. And since the implementation water has still been plentiful but just more annoying to get to.

DestinyCall · 2019-10-17 15:34:08

Dantox wrote:

And since the implementation water has still been plentiful but just more annoying to get to.

Don't worry. We will soon have even more annoying things to deal with. Just wait.

Keyin · 2019-10-17 16:15:23

Better add this to the list of content you'll miss out on if you don't play during the first day or two of the rift:
-Bananas
-wild onion
-burdock
-tule reeds
-ponds
-wild milkweed
-Hunting wolf
-Wolf hat
-Hunting turkey
-Hunting seal
-Sealskin coat
-Hunting rabbit
-fur clothing

Honestly, one of my biggest gripes with OHOL has been that what would be considered 'sustainable living' in real life(i.e living off of the land without tech, hunter gatherer style) is more unsustainable than using the most modern tech(like engines and fossil fuels)

This kind of update takes the game further away from allowing a hunter gatherer/nomad play-style and pushes you towards using the content requiring the most amount of steps; in this case we are being pushed into using an inferior clothing item and having rabbit fur closed off as an option.

This sort of update will contribute to all lives feeling the same, as people will just rush loom and sheep as soon as possible and you'll have to play really early on if you want to make things with rabbit fur.

This sort of change is very reminiscent of a term used often in DnD; rail-roading

rail-roading is defined as:

"forcing the characters into the pre-written story that the master created. It's generally frowned upon, because it disrupts the free-will oriented nature of roleplaying."

The pre-written story in this case is charging up the tech tree as fast as possible, because what you would intuitively assign in your mind as the most sustainable practices are, in reality, the least sustainable practices.

If I want to live as a hunter gatherer who lives off of gathering wild food and hunting animals, I am soon left with only berries, cactus fruit, and rabbits in my diet. With this update it will be only berries and cactus fruit.

If I want to live as a farmer who only uses pre-steel technology, I am limited in the amount of time I can live this lifestyle because water is a non-renewable resource. Even less sustainable than the hunter-gatherer example.

The master has already decided that I will be living in a town moving towards mechanization/industrialization. Not out of convenience, but as a necessity to staying alive. I am not coaxed into it with promises of faster production, or cheaper goods, or higher quality goods, or a higher standard of living; no, I am told

'industrialize, die, or spend your whole life naked jumping from berry-bush to berry-bush. Your choice.'

Not much of a choice, is it?

Last edited by Keyin (2019-10-17 16:17:55)

Whatever · 2019-10-17 17:15:34

yes Keyin well said,
i also feel like the updates give us less things to do in game instead of creating more interesting features.
i dont find it so interesting if you are forced to do certain things only to survive / let your village survive and dont have the freedom to do the stuff you want to do.

Last edited by Whatever (2019-10-17 17:15:55)

Spoonwood · 2019-10-17 17:20:13

JonySky is correct. Satellite towns/pseudo-eveing becomes questionable with this change.

Keyin's comment about 'railroading' I find insightful.

DestinyCall · 2019-10-17 17:32:23

Keyin wrote:

'industrialize, die, or spend your whole life naked jumping from berry-bush to berry-bush. Your choice.'
Not much of a choice, is it?

You're so right, Kevin.

But don't worry, I'm sure that the next fix will remove wild berries as a late-game option, so this problem will be solved.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-10-17 05:56:52

Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#2 2019-10-17 06:13:07

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#3 2019-10-17 07:08:44

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#4 2019-10-17 09:49:30

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#5 2019-10-17 09:51:59

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#6 2019-10-17 10:06:50

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#7 2019-10-17 10:11:59

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#8 2019-10-17 10:39:20

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#9 2019-10-17 11:07:58

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#10 2019-10-17 11:25:33

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#11 2019-10-17 12:06:26

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#12 2019-10-17 13:34:34

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#13 2019-10-17 13:49:44

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#14 2019-10-17 14:14:56

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#15 2019-10-17 14:15:07

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#16 2019-10-17 14:20:31

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#17 2019-10-17 14:28:01

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#18 2019-10-17 14:35:56

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#19 2019-10-17 14:43:05

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#20 2019-10-17 15:27:15

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#21 2019-10-17 15:34:08

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#22 2019-10-17 16:15:23

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#23 2019-10-17 17:15:34

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#24 2019-10-17 17:20:13

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

#25 2019-10-17 17:32:23

Re: Rabbits will no longer respawn, ponds will no longer refill

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