Am i the only one who is annoyed about new spring blocking?

pein · 2019-10-22 22:16:49

I remember the 8-day arc had 12 proper cities that were functioning most of the time and even after they had no oil or iron they were kinda decent, you could have revived them with hauling in some tools and kerosene.

In a previous arc we had 7 spots (2 ago)

the middle ones can't really even be called cities, more like death camps, so 3 places functioning throughout the arc, ended by the apocalypse then the baby invasion, i seriously taught that people got no motivation on making more cities

on this one we had more cities, i made the top right corner one all alone from an eve camp into the most active city, and Milks were running it until the end and even after. here we had 10 cities and obviously they got nothing to do with each other. the middle one was pretty decent connected with a meme rail road to another which wasn't used for too long, so possibly 6 better ones.

while people not even leaving the camp 50x50 surroundings, and there is still not much reason to do so, only if you want to make some trouble, the cage got just smaller.

Going out and making a new city should be rewarded, not blocked, but right now we got cockblocked by wells, not only that you got maybe 20 spots which can be viable city locations, having decent enough branches to make the tools, now you won't get wells there cause there is a city 5 screens away.
Some people enjoy big cities with a huge population and different families which is pointless but whatever, but others would like to make a town on their own. This change won't make much of a difference, just because you can't tap into the nearest well, doesn't make the game more challenging or harder. Maybe it makes sense for the exact city you are in, it won't make sense for any other city you would make later on. With a rift of 708x708, you got a grid of 17x17 springs, which is too much, yeah,but now with the current settings we gonna be limited to six water well sites but looking at the previous arcs map, where the oil was majorly northeast, and the viable spots were along the edges of the big swamps, 2 out of 4 towns wouldn't even existed there, with the current settings.

Not only that we got locked into a tiny cage, anything other than the first locations are ruined, basically, we are also named by a few people who happen to be there at the start of the arc suiciding 11x to become an eve, we can't even go out to make a new city on our own.

This change didn't make the particular city life much harder, you got to grind to make the oil, but in the end, even if you die, you gotta go back there another life and make that engine cause no other option anyway, it made the making of new cities harder.
I already had my experience of that. Two or three families living in the same camp, I was born 3 times into the same place, I went out to explore, and had 2 girls later, just noticed that the town I found was decaying, had tons of clothes, but had zero water, and the nearest tundra was quite huge but no tarry spot on it, so they basically hauled the kerosene from far away with horses, but ever since that knowledge and the horses were lost, people rather just moved out of camp and moved into other existing cities, which basically turned the diversity to zero.

If the goal would be to see how long we can last without oil, then why we still got the family limits? that whats killed the last arc, not that we had no water, but that some people killed out the last girls. And soon we get into a spot where people kill themselves out of boredom.

Blocking out well sites makes fewer towns, basically just means that the rift is smaller. 6 wells would fit into 250x250 and we all know how that turned out.

Scarcity won't make good gameplay, it just makes longer suffering.

Most of the players want longer towns. Just because someone makes a town, doesn't mean it's a good one.
There could be so many options to make the game harder.

Make food decay and turn into compost parts, nerf berries, make advancements limited by time or population, make jobs require multiple people, working process longer. We basically make 5-6 shitty towns then kill each other every 2 days and all progress is lost.
The only way we could make new towns is transporting all the water there, but then others could steal it the same way using water tanks and horses or 8 buckets.

The same people will make the cities, the same people get iron and oil, they can spread it to all cities and won't affect average players at all.

Jk Howling · 2019-10-22 22:25:35

Jason is delusional as fuck if he thinks 6 wells is enough for the rift.

Then again.. this is the same man who originally thought a 250x250 map was enough for the server, and who couldn't envision the literal griefing hell that it was, because "people r hard 2 predict D:"

Nothing new really. Just another shitty idea from a delusional man who doesn't play his own game often enough to comprehend his playerbase's perspective. He's not crazy, everyone else is, obviously!

antking:]# · 2019-10-23 01:54:15

yah I don't like the spring blocking, it just will stop people form moving around, so their will only be very few livable towns, and a griefing strategy that I can already think of is people building well in inhospitable areas. just so people will run out of well spaces... the "Best" case scenario is that people get very territorial and start warring for water and oil..... wait a second that's what we do in real life

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-23 03:23:43

There were 23 developed wells in the last arc. That is clearly too many.

The whole point of this is to see what happens when water running out forces you to oil, and then what happens when oil runs out. Only 4 of those 23 had been upgraded to diesel, which means that there was LOADS of low-tech water still waiting to be harvested. And oil wasn't even close to running out. This was after something like 2-3 days.

After 2-3 days, you should definitely be depending on oil in order to get any water at all, and oil should be just starting to run out.

As for "delusional," wow, though, right? I mean, the game is so much better now than it was last year. Pretty weird that a delusional guy can pull it off...

Here's a post about this issue from way back in 2017, about a year before JK had ever even hear of OHOL:

http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=63

It's a hard problem to solve in a persistent-world multiplayer context, which is why it has never been solved in a satisfying way in any persistent multiplayer game that I've seen. I'm trying to solve it, though. I've been thinking about it and working on this particular problem since 2017. Not giving up just yet.

antking:]# · 2019-10-23 04:03:11

jasonrohrer wrote:

It's a hard problem to solve in a persistent-world multiplayer context, which is why it has never been solved in a satisfying way in any persistent multiplayer game that I've seen. I'm trying to solve it, though. I've been thinking about it and working on this particular problem since 2017. Not giving up just yet.

I hope you don't give up, while I personally don't like these changes I don't know how they'll play out in the grand scheme of things, but if the spring spots will become dry and useless, can we have a way of removing them? for extra space and to making building roads easier (not needing to swerve around well sites)

but I want OHOL to become a game worth playing a game that keeps players coming back and coming again just for a driftnet story, while I don't know what your grand vision is I hope that one day it will be achieved and that everyone who struggled through the shitty updates, the degrading player base, and the constant attacks will see the game that this was always meant to be, and that one day I'll be watching YouTube and see an ad for OHOL and remember everything that it had to go through to get to the state that it will be in....

Jk Howling · 2019-10-23 04:21:29

jasonrohrer wrote:

As for "delusional," wow, though, right? I mean, the game is so much better now than it was last year. Pretty weird that a delusional guy can pull it off...

Delusional sounds about right, yeah. You see things that just aren't there, and try to fix nonexistent / small problems with out-there solutions that just make things worse, or do nothing to affect the problem [like the "hurr just make baskets with string so no grain clutter haha" fix]. I swear 99% of the time you and your playerbase are looking at two entirely different games. It's frustrating for both sides.

I respect your decision to create the game alone. What I and a lot of players [even your moderators lol] dislike is how you treat input from the people who actually sit down and put hours into your game. You don't play the game. We do. To treat us children and push our input aside because "lul I am game designer with 15 years experience obv I kno best!" just pisses everyone off.

People don't have to have 15 years of game dev experience to know how they feel about a game and how it plays. If anything, you RELY on those people and how they feel about the game- nobody's going to play a game they don't enjoy, after all. It wouldn't hurt to hear out the perspectives of those players. At the very least, I doubt anyone would be upset if you took time out of your rigorous coding schedule to play the game multiple times a week and interact with the playerbase. Or, y'know, use that fantastic in-game poll system that you worked so hard on [and then threw out the window after like 2-3 polls bc lol asking my playerbase for opinions? why would I do that?].

We see things you obviously either don't see or don't value the importance of. Maybe that's because many people play the game regularly, and you mostly see it from your empty test servers and data. There's obviously a disconnect somewhere in there.

The "best game in the world" won't get made through a single person's extremely narrow view. Games ten times better than this one definitely weren't assembled through one person's bias. Perspective is key for anything to be successful.

Also, for the record, I'd say this game is better than it was a year ago.. but I can't say it's better than it was 3-4 months ago. But that's my perspective on things. Other people have theirs, and of course, none of them hold a candle to your own.

Last edited by Jk Howling (2019-10-23 04:22:24)

Toxolotl · 2019-10-23 04:39:32

After the water park patch i can completely understand the need to reign it in. One of my favorite aspects of this game is exploring the wilderness and finding a viable spot to settle. I love finding sweet spots where oil, water and an iron vein are close together. Personally i thought there was way too much water after update 76.

The big issues i have is this arc has kinda hit an unplayable point for me. There was a server reset/crash last night and it reset the eve window, it also reset another little thing, all the tarry spots.

Before the reset we were just getting to the interesting part of running out of local oil and having to go search for the few remaining tarry spots on the map. I'm sad that it will likely be another day or more before it gets to that state again. In the mean time everything seems stagnant. Everything is built, many cities have complete walls, extensive internal framework and buildings on the inside. Beyond maintaining the towns food supply there are few exciting things to do.

I feel like each arc is its own little petri dish. Each one we learn a little bit more about what works and what doesnt. With the war swords we learned a lot and jason adjust accordingly. There is a part of me that really misses that chaos though. The main thing i miss though is the old eve run. Wandering the wilderness in search of the promised land and sometimes spending your whole life searching for a spot.

Jason, once you feel you've settled on the resource balance would you consider testing different sizes of the rift?

I like being able find my way around using the borders and landmarks but it still feels cramped. In my old eve runs i would sometimes run over two kilometers just to find a spot or sniff out a dead town. I really miss that feeling of exploration and it was a big part of me falling in love with this game. I really think with the right size the rift could have the best of both worlds. I had forgotten how much i missed exploring the vast unknown until people snuck out of the rift and i was able to explore again like old times. Getting lost was a real danger and tracking your way back to town was a challenge. As much as i get frustrated with the rift its the perfect environment to test new ideas or adjust balancing issues.

One of my favorite shows has a quote that always comes to mind when thinking about ohol

"We've been acting like lab rats. Lab rats are only powerless because they don't understand that they're in an experiment. But they're just as much a part of it as the scientist, in some ways even more."

Last edited by Toxolotl (2019-10-23 04:51:30)

Lava · 2019-10-23 04:52:07

jasonrohrer wrote:

There were 23 developed wells in the last arc. That is clearly too many.
The whole point of this is to see what happens when water running out forces you to oil, and then what happens when oil runs out. Only 4 of those 23 had been upgraded to diesel, which means that there was LOADS of low-tech water still waiting to be harvested. And oil wasn't even close to running out. This was after something like 2-3 days.
After 2-3 days, you should definitely be depending on oil in order to get any water at all, and oil should be just starting to run out.
As for "delusional," wow, though, right? I mean, the game is so much better now than it was last year. Pretty weird that a delusional guy can pull it off...
Here's a post about this issue from way back in 2017, about a year before JK had ever even hear of OHOL:
http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=63

It's a hard problem to solve in a persistent-world multiplayer context, which is why it has never been solved in a satisfying way in any persistent multiplayer game that I've seen. I'm trying to solve it, though. I've been thinking about it and working on this particular problem since 2017. Not giving up just yet.

Jason, no the game has become stagnant and in decline for these past four months. A concept you keep missing to understand about creating "the greatest game of all time" is that this criteria is judged by the actual players; not you. You can never admit to an error and your ego takes up the "16 years of game development." When your playerbase is not liking the way the games going, thats not a chance to keep doing your own things, your supposed to listen to them. You clearly havent and are going through this nihilistic phase ignoring any backlash scarcity has. I stopped playing the game 4-5 weeks ago because you lack a livid connection to your players. You totally disregard them and follow your own desires which will lead to your downfall. Hell why did you waste a week of content on a poll system if you already have everything figured out? You dont use it at all, You obviously don't care what we have to say, cause we're not game developers. IGN and other gaming companies don't develop games but still can rate games, Jason. you don't need to be a developer to knows what's wrong with the game. The only issue people had was that everything they worked on was gone in an instant; all you had to do was increase the time it took to cull but you decided a rift was the right decision for the game even though +20% of the (steam) player base left because of it. The game was great when content was added, now its in the gutter and im out until something changes.

Dodge · 2019-10-23 07:51:26

Lava wrote:

The game was great when content was added, now its in the gutter and im out until something changes.

If a game needs constant content updates to keep being interesting, then it's not a good game...

Recent updates are here to achieve this change from "needing constant content" to being an interesting game full of possibilities wether content is added or not.

Right now the game is very linear, yes there's small variations between each life but mostly it resumes to "craft stuff to survive" you dont need communication, you dont need to make tough decisions, you dont need to care about others etc.

Alec · 2019-10-23 08:02:20

I having fun for all updates by Jason.
I though, one hour one life is looks life kid of Jason.
There is no excuse for scolding him and his son just because his son did not grow up as you expected.

But if I can talk about request of water and oil economy system,
"Dry natural spring" have to be available to craft "Exhausted Deep Well".
Because now ANY village cannot move far from first Well.

pein · 2019-10-23 09:18:26

jasonrohrer wrote:

There were 23 developed wells in the last arc. That is clearly too many.
The whole point of this is to see what happens when water running out forces you to oil, and then what happens when oil runs out. Only 4 of those 23 had been upgraded to diesel, which means that there was LOADS of low-tech water still waiting to be harvested. And oil wasn't even close to running out. This was after something like 2-3 days.
After 2-3 days, you should definitely be depending on oil in order to get any water at all, and oil should be just starting to run out.
As for "delusional," wow, though, right? I mean, the game is so much better now than it was last year. Pretty weird that a delusional guy can pull it off...
Here's a post about this issue from way back in 2017, about a year before JK had ever even heard of OHOL:
http://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=63

It's a hard problem to solve in a persistent-world multiplayer context, which is why it has never been solved in a satisfying way in any persistent multiplayer game that I've seen. I'm trying to solve it, though. I've been thinking about it and working on this particular problem since 2017. Not giving up just yet.

Still, 17x17 grid, 23 wells isn't much. If you can graph it out, how many of those were next to each other? For example, I made one well and a pen and I didn't actually think that was used after that. There were like 10 towns, so how much, 2.3 per city is too much?
Only 4 was developed? good, it doesn't mean people didn't want it, but they can't, it's not like they will be forced to make an engine, they might steal one, or what just happened, leave a completely developed town for another.
When water goes low and people are forced to make new well, that's good. You don't accomplish much, average player won't make a well, or if it does, then it's a good sign.

When I made the city on North-East corner, I didn't even make a well for the first 2 hours. I planted a 7x7 pen, made boards, tried to make the shape of the city before people move in. They eventually found the place and moved in anyway, a guy was planting too many bushes. I made the compost for it and had to dig out some, he already ruined the shape of farms that I prepared, was pretty obvious tho. It had quite a lot of water in first well, just luck I guess. But it wasn't ready, so they had a lot of babies and slowly we ran out of the water, and people already rip off floors to replace it elsewhere, wasted on bushes cause we had a lot of newbies. They choose to run away instead of fixing it. Only a few people stayed, i cooked eggs, made pies, was fun, we made a lot of progress with people who enjoyed working. We still had issues, stupid griefers hiding pies, buckets, ruining kiln and upgrading oven to kiln.

I understand that the next wells won't be usable. It's 40 tiles away. It's easy to go there, 80 is far, 3-4 biomes. There could be a whole new city there and lot of people wouldn't notice during their lifetime.

Correction: that particular city should run out of water.
I refuse to run out of the water on a newly made camp. Do you know what happens to bad camps? People refuse to stay. Babies suicide, pseudo-eves start looking for other places. That is a good thing. Not all players are equal, not all players are able to make a good looking city, sure they will try. The failed camps get scavenged, fire tools, a bit of iron, no one gonna need it. SO far the camps I made, people valued the work over there and rather than scavenging the supplies, continue the work there and make a good city out of it. That's the whole point of survival, making better towns. One family can have multiple towns, that make them stronger. What does it have to do with me that a town is already made?
If you increase the tap-out range, you basically force us into randomly made cities.

If it's distance-based and max number based, basically you remove the choice from the pseudo eves. It's not a choice anymore when you block out half of the map, on the picture above, 4 cities are on 4 sides of a huge swamp. 2 of them wouldn't exist with these settings. They are decently far away. They are not the same cities. Or if they are, props for that maintaining it.

With 160 tiles well distance you essentially force town locations to bad places. The same exact people who could transport water back to make an engine got the choice between carrying water back to an already struggling city and argue with people not to use it on berry bushes or make a new city. Heck, so many times I had to argue with people that steel hoe is a luxury in that situation, we cannot afford it, and decoration swords for babies are not needed when the whole server is at peace and the iron count is lower than 30, had to scrape together all the iron in 6 cities to make an engine. So many times when you put a bucket next to newcommen some idiot will take one bowl of water out of it ruining the whole process.

When it's around the city that's fine, I understand. When it is 80 or 120 away that's quite a lot of work, maybe people try to get a few buckets for newcommen multipurpose or to keep the town alive, it's not that bad. I don't see where you going with this. If the town becomes unsustainable, people should move. I traveled more than 1000 tiles, I didn't found a single well spot, I found a whole big city without water, horses, and kerosene.

There should be always a solution, a harder one, more work, more teamwork. The bare minimum would be to show arrows where I can make a new well. And guess what, people like Killian and Lava are the ones who make new cities and engines and keep up the dead rift, others lose patience and mood to even fix it, after 2 days people start killing sprees cause nothing left to do nothing left to stay for. But you esentially limitting people to stay in the few places that already got a well.

Spreading to new cities is not easier than staying and doing nothing. That also doesn't affect average players. No water? they eat the food left and starve out. They won't put the last bucket of water in the newcommen multipurpose or make charcoal, they try to make food, they try to run away, only a few players will go back with kerosene or water or engine, won't affect 90% of players. Just like Glassius said, we put out fires 99% of the time, no time left for anything else.

We either need more water usage, things we can spend more water on so it won't matter scraping a few buckets from far away, or different kinds of needs that need to be fulfilled, hygiene? Showers would clean the characters and would stop the disease. Washing clothes? Clothes would go dirty and provide less bonus, look worse? washing it after a person dies in them and after 20 minutes of wearing?
Industrial level production of new materials requiring more water? fountains or pools, moats ? make people want to advance, not "have to advance".

Lava · 2019-10-23 12:02:10

Dodge wrote:

Lava wrote:
The game was great when content was added, now its in the gutter and im out until something changes.

If a game needs constant content updates to keep being interesting, then it's not a good game...
Recent updates are here to achieve this change from "needing constant content" to being an interesting game full of possibilities wether content is added or not.
Right now the game is very linear, yes there's small variations between each life but mostly it resumes to "craft stuff to survive" you dont need communication, you dont need to make tough decisions, you dont need to care about others etc.

Any game that has not got any content for the past four months will be boring no matter what dodge, you wouldn't know this because your probably got on three or four times the past four months. All you do is suck Jasons dick and can not think freely at all. If you played the game you would know its boring rn. And wdym constant content updates are boring? who in the right mind told you that? The best games are the ones that have things constantly added to it such as Minecraft. This game is still VERY linear, probably more so than before. You ALWAYS spawn in a high tech village no matter what, everything is the same very linear. Atleast before their was variation in what period you spawned in on now everything is the same. You cant have a game with "full of possibilities" if their is nothing interesting to do content-wise everything is the same regardless. Content is needed desperately.

fug · 2019-10-23 14:09:07

Dodge wrote:

If a game needs constant content updates to keep being interesting, then it's not a good game...

Pretty sure people want content considering he did two weeks of updates before jumping into another content drought (fancy clothing + new food was back in March for Christ sake.)

Since then lets look what has been added content wise:

4/21: Fences. Overall at the time an update that just led to people hoarding and other shit. This update led to him purposely releasing the sword in a fucked state in an attempt to force people to use them. Bad update made worse by him trying to force change instead of letting it happen organically. 2/10.

4/28: Cameras. People really thought these would be cool little in game things but having to view them on the website kind of killed the hype of them. A silly gimmick at best and at worst something to piss off a bunch of people because he was threatening bans if you posted altered pictures meant he kind of soiled this update himself. 3/10.

5/5: Springs. Botched by the bad idea of placing Eves on top of springs constantly this is what lead to the infamous Eve Tarr raiders which is both a failure on the swords part and design choice. However, I don't think the springs were too terrible by themselves. There was clearly too much water based on making wells on ponds so it wasn't all bad. Springs by themselves are probably a 7/10 but the way Jason screwed it up 2/10.

5/29: Slot boxes. While some people swear by these things a storage downgrade is still a downgrade. Clearly storage can't be powercreeped forever due to server issues but we did eventually get a storage upgrade in the form of rubber carts (again...) 5/10 update as I'm clearly bias against slot boxes.

6/22: Meme score + murder mouth. Update gets a small pass because Jason was sick this week.

7/5: Rubber tree cuttings, scraping, and other fixes. Rubber trees were good, medkit aprons were good, scrapping was and is still half assed. You now remember it's been three months since he added this mechanic and hasn't gone back to add the rest of the steel items to the recycle list. 9/10 for the fixes this week minus scraping which is 3/10 due to being incomplete and requiring a scrap bowl to scrap a pile of scrap.

7/19: New player models. To put it short and sweet new player models are always good. 10/10 update, good update week.

7/27: Rift update. Has made the game stale for about three months now, removed early game play, and has generally made the game worse. -1/10.

8/2: Elder note removal and diesel iron mining. Good updates that fix clear oversights (iron too scarce, and troll fence removal.) 10/10 update that fixes actual problems with the game.

8/24: Fixes update. Hungry work for all trees (boo), partially fixing newcomen towers (eh), "working" curses (better), and setting families to neutral instead of at war to start (woo.) The only new content that came from this was dug up snowballs, elder pens, and and a deconstructed loom. 6/10 update.

9/27: Boxes on fences. Okay on paper but changed nothing 2/10.

10/12: Upgraded horse carts + water tanks 10/10 update don't need to say much about how good upgraded storage is in this game vs downgrades with niches. Water tanks made newcomens water pumps better due to making farming elsewhere better. From a content change these were both good.

10/19: Rabbit baiting and maps. -3/10. Ill thought out and likely not getting changed until 1/20 due to Jason's speed at fixing content this update just made rabbit hunting annoying for the sake of being annoying.

So out of 33 or so weeks we got 13 content weeks and 20 weeks of tweaks/fixes/whatever. I don't think people would mind less content if it was done well (aka didn't need to be fixed the following week due to being a buggy mess.)

Spoonwood · 2019-10-23 15:08:36

jasonrohrer wrote:

There were 23 developed wells in the last arc. That is clearly too many.

Pein just told you something he didn't like. He gave you plenty of detail. He paid for the game. You didn't. He's also played the game much more than you have over time and knows how it works in much more detail. You shoot back at him implying that he doesn't know what he's talking about and that his taste his poor. You have no respect for your community and you don't have a clue. You are an awful designer, because you don't listen to people and try to argue with people when they tell you their taste.

jasonrohrer wrote:

As for "delusional," wow, though, right? I mean, the game is so much better now than it was last year. Pretty weird that a delusional guy can pull it off...

No, it's not better. The game lacks the complexity it had with regard to temperature before the temperature overhaul. People have repeatedly expressed that combat is now rather awful... as Pein has said agar.io has more complex battle. On top of that and most importantly, the game was more popular a year ago. You are delusional if you think OHOL is better, when it is less popular and has a rather continual decline in popularity. People also say that the game is less exciting than before, and you've previously said that you believe that such is probably true. That's another indication that the game is not better, that it's worse. Were you consistent, you would take that comment about the game being less exciting and realize that the game is worse, and realize that your choices have caused such Jason.

jasonrohrer wrote:

It's a hard problem to solve in a persistent-world multiplayer context, which is why it has never been solved in a satisfying way in any persistent multiplayer game that I've seen. I'm trying to solve it, though. I've been thinking about it and working on this particular problem since 2017. Not giving up just yet.

Your post describes a non-problem with respect to what players care about and something that survival games don't do. In both Oxygen Not Included and Rimworld you can eventually reach a steady state. The 'everything runs out' is not interesting to people playing the game who bought it in general. It's just stressful. You want to know what happens when everything runs out? More players don't want to play and walk away from the game. Because people don't play games to get set up for failure. They play games to succeed or to escape into a fantasy realm. Not some sort of inevitable doom and gloom.

Dodge · 2019-10-23 15:42:57

fug wrote:

Dodge wrote:
If a game needs constant content updates to keep being interesting, then it's not a good game...
Pretty sure people want content considering he did two weeks of updates before jumping into another content drought (fancy clothing + new food was back in March for Christ sake.)

Pretty sure it doesn't change anything to my point.

I agree though that each week should have at least a few content added, but still better to fix the underlying issues than adding meaningless content to try to keep interest for the game and eventually end up with a lot of nothing.

Last edited by Dodge (2019-10-23 15:59:09)

Dodge · 2019-10-23 15:46:31

Spoonwood wrote:

He paid for the game. You didn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RcXl7cfnF8

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-23 16:55:13

antking, yes, I will add a way to remove the dry spring heads before I push this out.

JK, as an additional a sign of how delusional I've become, I generally skip reading your posts.

Lava wrote:

Any game that has not got any content for the past four months will be boring no matter what

You're off your rocker there. Chess hasn't got any content for the past 1400 years. Spelunky hasn't ever had any updates, has been out for 6 years, and still has 211 active players.

There are plenty of games that get no updates at all but are still played by droves of people. That's because they are fundamentally good games. OHOL was not a fundamentally good game, which is why people stopped playing in droves even when I added lots of content to it weekly. This is why I'm working to make it fundamentally good before heaping on more content.

Spoonwood · 2019-10-23 17:56:47

Dodge wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
He paid for the game. You didn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RcXl7cfnF8

Again, Pein payed for the game. Jason didn't. Jason has no interest in satisfying his customers. That makes him poor at the process of making good games.

Dodge · 2019-10-23 17:58:22

Spoonwood wrote:

Dodge wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
He paid for the game. You didn't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RcXl7cfnF8
Again, Pein payed for the game. Jason didn't. Jason has no interest in satisfying his customers. That makes him poor at the process of making good games.

Again, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RcXl7cfnF8

Spoonwood · 2019-10-23 18:06:01

jasonrohrer wrote:

You're off your rocker there. Chess hasn't got any content for the past 1400 years.

Not true.

"The queen and bishop remained relatively weak until[12] between 1475 AD and 1500 AD, in either Spain, Portugal, France or Italy, the queen's and bishop's modern moves started and spread, making chess close to its modern form."

Additionally, you're the one off your rocker. Look at the game numbers. You also have a heavy amount of criticism on the forum and have for some time. People defending you, like Dodge, have to resort to some silly meme, because he doesn't have a counter-argument that can stand on it's own merits.

jasonrohrer wrote:

There are plenty of games that get no updates at all but are still played by droves of people. That's because they are fundamentally good games. OHOL was not a fundamentally good game, which is why people stopped playing in droves even when I added lots of content to it weekly.

You added some content in the period from December to mid-February last year. Your own numbers show two periods of continual player population increase during that time: https://i.imgur.com/djVG3FJ.png In that time period were the Black Gold (oil rigs), Internal Combustion (cars), Yuletide Together (Christmas Trees), the radio updates (radios), and the Miracle of Flight (planes)... source: https://onehouronelife.gamepedia.com/Version_history You are delusional if you think people stopped playing in droves during that time period.

jasonrohrer wrote:

This is why I'm working to make it fundamentally good before heaping on more content.

If it is, then you're not looking at the numbers and considering the updates.

Spoonwood · 2019-10-23 18:08:17

Dodge wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Dodge wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RcXl7cfnF8
Again, Pein payed for the game. Jason didn't. Jason has no interest in satisfying his customers. That makes him poor at the process of making good games.
Again, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RcXl7cfnF8

Not a counter argument. That you merely post this over and over again shows that you don't have a way of rational rebuttal. That suggests your position is extremely weak, and that my position has a lot going for it.

Dodge · 2019-10-23 18:09:48

Spoonwood wrote:

Dodge, have to resort to some silly meme, because he doesn't have a counter-argument that can stand on it's own merits.

Who needs arguments when you say something as stupid as:

Spoonwood wrote:

He paid for the game. You didn't.

Spoonwood · 2019-10-23 18:34:13

Dodge wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Dodge, have to resort to some silly meme, because he doesn't have a counter-argument that can stand on it's own merits.
Who needs arguments when you say something as stupid as:
Spoonwood wrote:
He paid for the game. You didn't.

Nothing stupid there, at least so far as I know. Pein payed for the game (or for access to the servers). Jason did not (nor did he pay for access to the servers). Maybe Pein didn't pay though, I could be wrong on that.

Dodge · 2019-10-23 18:44:16

Spoonwood wrote:

Dodge wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
Dodge, have to resort to some silly meme, because he doesn't have a counter-argument that can stand on it's own merits.
Who needs arguments when you say something as stupid as:
Spoonwood wrote:
He paid for the game. You didn't.
Nothing stupid there, at least so far as I know. Pein payed for the game (or for access to the servers). Jason did not (nor did he pay for access to the servers). Maybe Pein didn't pay though, I could be wrong on that.

Do i have to post that video again?

Jason MADE the game, Pein couldn't have even bought the game if Jason didn't made it.

Saying to Jason that he didn't paid the game is one of the dumbest argument i ever heard.

Oh but you're right it's probably factually true, Jason probably never paid for his game (because why would he right? since he made the game)

See that's what you dont understand you can be factually true while still being fundamentally wrong.

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-23 19:20:03

Oh I did pay for the game! I paid way more than $20.

I paid for it with my life over the past 4.5 years.

I paid for it with my fingers over 120,000 lines of code and 5,900 git commits.

I paid for it with my drawing hand as I hand-drew 2095 sprites.

I paid with my HEART as I improvised that soulful piano music in one take.

And for a year, I paid a friend's living expenses while he helped me make the (old) artwork and (old) music. All told, it was something like $20,000, including his severance pay.

Even the PAX booth a few months ago cost something like $4000.

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