Coming soon: Character skills (tools)

Keyin · 2019-10-25 19:32:05

miskas wrote:

In general, I avoid to believe in stuff, I prefer to study, discover how things work compare findings and then I just share my knowledge.
So no I don't believe that the average male IQ is higher than the average female IQ.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/04/06/fish-climb/
No offend to women btw, animals with sexual dimorphism have limited skill slots so men and women had to choose different skills to survive together.

If you look closely at the studies showing men and women with same IQ, they are usually measuring middle-schoolers between ages 11-13, when girls have already started puberty and boys have yet to start puberty (girls at an advantage).

Once boys finish puberty they usually score higher. This is because men have more grey-matter, women have more white-matter. = men better at working with abstract things, women better at working with people/concrete things.
"men have approximately 6.5 times the amount of gray matter related to general intelligence than women, and women have nearly 10 times the amount of white matter"

Yeah it would be nice if men got a buff for something, because right now woman is just buffed man. (can do everything men can just as good + more)

Women being able to birth children and breast feed is the only non-controversial sex difference in the current culture sadly. Any other difference will stir controversy due to current political climate.

wondible · 2019-10-25 19:44:05

Whatever wrote:

yes and if man pick up babies they hold them upsidedown to show that they dont have the skill learned

This could actually be pretty nice if old women did the same. Whoops, kid is upside down, better find a berry bush. Bonus if you get your skill slot back now that you aren't so busy with babies.

Coconut Fruit · 2019-10-25 19:46:06

Womens belong to kitchen. They shouldn't be able to choose any other proffesion. Just kidding

miskas · 2019-10-25 19:55:05

jasonrohrer wrote:

Dafuto, wow, that's a great suggestion about men naturally having more skill slots..... though I feel like adding something like that would really be me kicking a hornet's nest. Having gendered names was controversial enough!
Even my wife, who's pretty on board with men and women being fundamentally different cooperative partners in the human story might bristle at the idea of men being inherently more "skillful" than women. And actually, I think there are just different skill sets. Women are supposedly way better at "fine work" because they have smaller muscles and fingers.

don't know, Young generation is more anti-pc than pro-pc

Or else you gota give us males that breed babes or we change our gender just by saying I Identify as a woman

As for me I would probably Identify myself as an Attack helicopter and fly out from the Rift

Last edited by miskas (2019-10-25 19:55:29)

Spoonwood · 2019-10-25 20:04:48

jasonrohrer wrote:

Dafuto, wow, that's a great suggestion about men naturally having more skill slots..... though I feel like adding something like that would really be me kicking a hornet's nest. Having gendered names was controversial enough!
Even my wife, who's pretty on board with men and women being fundamentally different cooperative partners in the human story might bristle at the idea of men being inherently more "skillful" than women. And actually, I think there are just different skill sets. Women are supposedly way better at "fine work" because they have smaller muscles and fingers.

Then go with men and women having different skill sets. Women can have the baby carrying skill. While men can carry 4 items in a basket instead of 3 or something like that. Maybe not their entire lives. Maybe women have restricted ability from 14 to 40... as in women not having the same abilities when say 8 months pregnant (see here... it mentions leg cramps during pregnancy: https://www.healthline.com/health/pregn … graphic#7). Men and women are different in their physical abilities as a rule, so men and women having different abilities in the game would make sense.

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-25 20:08:57

I've messed around with IQ tests, and I do think they measure a certain type of intelligence.... specifically "IQ".... which isn't the only measure of brainpower. IQ tests sometimes even involve direct spatial reasoning (like mentally rotating a 2D drawing of a 3D object), which obviously favors men over women, like this kind of thing:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRI_23QXQs4R6AV7y7cd0IJZd8SYxBOHWwCCksk9gJA5PtUfvTvqw&s

But IQ tests never do this: Look at this photograph of a face and guess which event recently occurred in the person's life.

I didn't know about the white vs gray matter thing, but it sounds like the gray are the cells and the white are the long-range connections. That makes some sense, and reminds me of the cover of this book that my wife and I read a while back:

For the youngsters in the audience, that's a telephone cord in the picture...

eajorstad · 2019-10-25 20:50:39

jasonrohrer wrote:

Love the idea of a man holding the baby upside down, and needing to use a slot to feed a baby...
Though a naked man holding a baby upside down looks like what, exactly?

This genuinely made me LOL.

RE this idea: I echo the statements of others and think this has great potential... My concern is that if you are wanting to have this be a cooperative experience and have ppl communicate with each other.. what if a mom is afk and can't bring her kid around to find a profession? Or the mom is just crap and doesn't help?

Trying to talk as a bb or child is difficult enough without having to add more speech requirements early on... Could there be some sort of command or macro or something like the emotes to help this?

And yes, I know many times another mom will adopt a kid with an AFK mom... But I know frequently there are new players who end up being a mom who don't know they need to do this. OR the mom legit is too absorbed in her own work and just abandons bb.

And maybe that's a challenge you intend us to figure out in game? Idk. Just my two cents.

And yeah. Rocks/sharp rocks should not be tools.

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-25 20:58:35

Yes, I will be able to turn the tool status on and off as-needed, so we will do some experimentation with what feels "right" for being a tool vs being something that everyone knows.

Alec · 2019-10-25 21:09:22

I cant wait I will wear apron and toque blanche to be cook.
Maybe Raw stew pot will be tool, or making stew will required stomper to cook.

Please add lot of cooking tool, like mixer, tong for fried, and milking machine.

pein · 2019-10-25 21:59:17

I mean just do a left/right brain test, there are a lot of things you just do and you don't know the reason for and how subjective that is that you consider one thing better than the other when you haven't really given a thought about it.
Generally, women are better at emotional intelligence, empathy. Quite different to think with emotions. Like the biggest thing, I learned from psychology books that replacing just a few words in my dictionary can have a huge effect on how people take it when I say something when logically, there is not much difference between those words, one is more logical, other sounds more human. Quite a lot of times logic and "creative" thinking are reverse but when both match it creates sentences that look and feel good.

The last century was the time for denial, scepticism, left-brain thinking is enforced, and a lot of things that aren't logical are denied. There are still things that you can't explain with only logic, and it's safe to assume that both sides of the brain are equivalent. A lot of thing got double meaning and can be explained differently where both things can be true at the same time.

It's not a competition, men and women are good at different things and complete each other.

For the game, I actually dug into stats, a lot of players don't reach old age as a male, almost 70% of males die before age 20 if they reach twenty, they tend to live to old age so it seems more like a choice than a skill. Also, female characters tend to quit earlier, after 40 when they lose their fertility. A lot of players try to be a female to have kids, to continue the lineage. So that's why they quit after 40, if someone already decided that he is ok being male, then they continue to live to 60. I mean, right now we got finally buff to fertility when we don't have enough female babies, so isn't that bad like it was before that RNG can ruin the continuity of a family. Even IRL genders tend to equalize, bit more females as men tend to die earlier, but is very close to 50-50 so the change to have 3 fertile females per family helped against griefers and to have healthy families.

That being said, we should have some bonus to males, as there is a lot of negativity against them. We had boy killers, people gear up girls more often, you can geet old and see your family die out and think that you should have born as a female, and you didn't really have a positive impact on things. You even get cursed more often and much easier if you are a male.

Probably something like that, holding two babies at once would count as a tool, would be quite funny. As long as you got multiple babies, holding them at once would take one slot and the rest as a temporary slot if you got any. While males would have one slot more this way.
Maybe we could have age-based tool slots, after age 3 we would get initial 3, then at 7, and 14 some more. 14-40 is adult anyway so we can do almost anything so kinda peak performance. Sure it shouldn't degrade after, but maybe some tools could be only used after age 40 or gender-based. Holding babies backwards would be funny as hell and dropping them up and down

StrongForce · 2019-10-25 22:32:19

I'm super looking forward to this update!!

Coconut Fruit · 2019-10-25 22:49:23

StrongForce wrote:

I'm super looking forward to this update!!

Me too, can't wait for being forced to do only one thing for the whole life. Sounds exciting

Coconut Fruit · 2019-10-25 22:50:59

I'll make sure to keep my genetic score as low as possible so I can enjoy it even more haha

WomanWizard · 2019-10-26 00:26:59

I think the difference between the male and female brain is a little too complex to use it in balancing the gender dynamics in this game. Not in its current state, and not without offending anyone. That's probably better done by enhancing male strength in some capacity, like many people have already said. Running faster, picking up rocks, carrying more... there are tons of possibilities there.

Jason, you mentioned that you wanted to fix the boredom of being a baby. What if you added some kind of benefit to babies playing with certain items? What if playing with the rubber ball improved a child's motor skills, making them work a little faster? What if there were even more toys, like toy axes and swords that gave children benefits to using these tools when they grow up? What if you could use certain tools as children to gain a proficiency in that tool that makes better items, only you must gain this proficiency as a child while you're a quick learner. Children who knitted enough before they were 14 can make fancier clothes or something. Shear enough sheep before you're 14 and you get twice as much wool as an adult. Bake enough pies as a child and the pies you make as an adult give extra pips when consumed. Having an adult play or work with you might even give you another tier of benefit!

If the baby stage is really a concern, maybe an early childhood update is in order. Toys and child-sized clothes that you grow out of at a certain age. Play and learning, because that's why children play after all. Teaching as an actual skill that helps children improve their own skills!

I like the idea of some kind of skill being added to the game, but adding boons rather than restricting what players can currently do might be a little more interesting, and you can kill two birds with one stone by connecting that boon to a player's early years.

Saolin · 2019-10-26 02:52:37

As far as I can remember from university, there is not much structural difference at all between male and female brains. There is more difference within a sex than between the two. The only difference i can remember is during EEG studies (senses regions of brain activity), when asked to perform a specific task males tend to have activity primarily in the area relevant to the task, whereas females tend to have activity in a more diverse array of areas in addition to the primary area. It wasn't known why at the time. Perhaps further studies have been done in this area, but it's not like i keep up with the current research.

arkajalka · 2019-10-26 04:44:38

XD sharpstone nerfed! Well one tool slot less for to decide cause its a must.

st2019 · 2019-10-26 07:58:33

DiscardedSlinky wrote:

Jason I get it we're not always nice to you, but you don't have to be so mean to us.
This game is already VERY hard to learn for new players. This is going to make it so much worse

I don't agree here. In fact it gives new players a focus what to do. And when you can't do a thing you ask someone and may learn how it works (for the next life) while watching someone doing stuff.

I really really love this. Especially because Jason coupled it together with the genetic fitness.

And for the high potential players (who might feel limited now): Just coordinate things. You can't do everything alone any longer. It's so much more fun for all of us.

Spiegel · 2019-10-26 12:36:29

Whatever wrote:

yes and if man pick up babies they hold them upsidedown to show that they dont have the skill learned

We need this. Omg, Jason, we need this! Please! XD

Stormyzabeast · 2019-10-26 15:21:08

Ugh...... Just take us back to right after the temp update. I'm so sick of this rift/war/griefer crap I could scream. Can't someone mod this?? Like, just make it that version so those of us that prefer it can play that way? I want what I build to last as long as my family maintains it. I'm just not happy with the game. I haven't been for a long time now

Eta-it's like nothing really matters. As soon as the arc ends, it's all gone. What's the point of doing anything? People are going to get bored regardless, start roleplaying and kill each other off, then boom, everything restarts. Honestly that's the most fun for me. Right after an arc ends and we're all naked in the woods, hustling to survive

Last edited by Stormyzabeast (2019-10-26 15:24:03)

Stormyzabeast · 2019-10-26 15:25:46

Get rid of the arc. Go back to the Apocalypse thing and let the rp's attack the doom bringers. That would be meaningful and fun. I don't mind the rift

Chard · 2019-10-26 17:48:09

Eight is too many. It doesn't feel like a constraint.

Sopbucket · 2019-10-26 21:07:31

Sounds like a good idea, for all the reasons stated. It also means that a community will have to rely on new blood to advance in technology, which feels right and might help to make advancement more gradual than it currently is. I usually get roped into doing one thing for most of my life anyway, so it probably won't be changing my personal experience all that much, outside of the larger framework of people interacting more and so on.

One suggestion, maybe you should require the player to hold Shift in order to learn a skill? Since each skill is a permanent fixture, it'll be important to minimize misclicks that set them in place. The fact that you have to interact with a specific tool first helps, but I think I'd still be paranoid about it.

Last edited by Sopbucket (2019-10-26 21:08:34)

pleyland · 2019-10-27 18:19:18

The fact that some people here think that limitations ruin games and simultaneously think they are smarter than monkeys is hilarious to me. I bet most of you would be absolutely useless handling a sharp stone.

Hey, seeing as removing limitations is fun, how about we make it so that you never have to eat! wouldn't that be fun? morons

Last edited by pleyland (2019-10-27 18:24:14)

Spoonwood · 2019-10-28 02:12:35

pleyland wrote:

The fact that some people here think that limitations ruin games and simultaneously think they are smarter than monkeys is hilarious to me. I bet most of you would be absolutely useless handling a sharp stone.
Hey, seeing as removing limitations is fun, how about we make it so that you never have to eat! wouldn't that be fun? morons

Eating in OHOL is boring. Food selection and cooking have some interesting aspects to them, but not the actual eating. Not having to eat would definitely be more interesting if you wanted to focus on water technology in the game.

Edit: I never said that limitations ruin games. No, the limitation of having to eat isn't what provides interest. The selection of food, cooking food, and having to make choices about food has interest. But, the limitation doesn't provide the interest. It's other things that go along with the food process. If eating were optional, but you could eat and had as many food possibilities, things in the game would be just as interesting. So, I stand by what I said, that constraints are not a means of gaining something. A weight lifter who ties his left arm behind his back so that he lift with the right, doesn't gain anything by the tying of the arm. The weight lifter gains by using the right arm more.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-10-28 02:19:06)

Dodge · 2019-10-28 06:22:57

Spoonwood wrote:

If eating were optional, but you could eat and had as many food possibilities, things in the game would be just as interesting.

Then why would you eat?

Why would you farm? Or build wells?

If you cant die why bother about survival at all?

Why advance in tech to make survival easier if it's not even needed?

You do realize that not dying of starvation is the main drive of the game that fuels every other activity?

I get now why most of your arguments dont make sense, you're not even playing the same game.

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#51 2019-10-25 19:32:05

Re: Coming soon: Character skills (tools)

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#53 2019-10-25 19:46:06

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#54 2019-10-25 19:55:05

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#55 2019-10-25 20:04:48

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