List of things that will be tools

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-26 05:16:50

  "Stakes# +tool"
  "Needle and Ball of Thread# +toolSew"
  "Sterilized Knife# +toolSterile"
  "Sterile Wool Pad# +toolSterile"
  "Bow and Arrow# +tool"
  "Charcoal Pencil# +tool"
  "Needle and Thread# +toolSew"
  "Firing Newcomen Hammer# +tool"
  "Firing Newcomen Bore# +tool"
  "Firing Newcomen Roller# +tool"
  "Firing Newcomen Lathe# +tool"
  "Dry Diesel Water Pump# +tool"
  "Wooden Tongs# +tool"
  "Crude Car with Empty Tank# +tool"
  "Firing Newcomen Drill# +tool"
  "Hot Adobe Oven# +tool"
  "Loom# +tool"
  "Crude Airplane with Empty Tank# +toolPlane"
  "Crude Airplane on Landing Strip# +toolPlane"
  "Firing Adobe Kiln# +tool"
  "Empty Camera# +tool"
  "War Sword# otherFamilyOnly maxPickupAge_55 +tool"
  "Ready Diesel Mining Pick# +tool"
  "Steel Axe# +tool"
  "Smithing Hammer# +tool"
  "Steel Chisel# +tool"
  "Steel File# +tool"
  "Bow Saw# +tool"
  "Steel Adze# +tool"
  "Flint-tipped Bow Drill# +toolBowDrill"
  "Shovel# +tool"
  "Knife# +tool"
  "Shears# +tool"
  "Knitting Needles# +tool"
  "Steel Mining Pick# +tool"
  "Stone Hatchet# +tool"
  "Fire Bow Drill# +toolBowDrill"
  "Lasso# +tool"
  "Stone Hoe# +toolHoe"
  "Steel Hoe# +toolHoe"
  "Fishing Pole# +tool"

There are 41 things here, but 36 distinct categories. If you had 36 tool slots, you would be able to learn everything.

Anything with a tag after the +tool is in a category with more than one thing. For example, learning either hoe allows you to use either hoe.

There are some interesting choices that I had to make along the way. I decided to make starting any of the diesel machines a distinct skill. Thus, flying a plane becomes a skill, as does driving a car or using a mining rig.

Charcoal pencil is also an interesting one.... some people won't learn how to write.

I've also missed a few things, and some of the things that are on the list will likely be adjusted or removed later.

I left sharp stone off the list.... it just seemed like too much....

That said, I feel like 8 base slots +8 bonus slots (based on genetic fitness) are a good fit here. If you're the ultimate fitness, you'll have 16 slots, which is very close to half of the tools. This number can be adjusted live without restarting the server, so we'll see how it goes.

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-26 05:29:11

Also, I changed my mind about Eve knowing all tools. Seems like a good opportunity for skilled players to rush everything solo with no cooperation during the Eve window.

Tutorial players have no tool limits, though, because it will be too confusing.

arkajalka · 2019-10-26 05:35:41

Fire making as a tool thing is going to be terrible imo. Its hard enough to keep up the fire already cause ppl neglect it big time. Now in addition to that you have to learn bow drill and axe to keep it up...

These niche skills that are must have for town to prosper, but boring will end up doing much harm for the whole game play. No one will learn them cause they wanna learn some more "interesting" skill and you end up in a situatuon where the fires go out and you are forced to learn few tools just to keep the thing going on.

Instead of doing interesting things, building great walls and inventions you end up being forced to learn some random one time use tools like saw, steelfile, charcoalpen to keep the town going.

Bet theres gonna be big time RIOT and people will learn only how to use bow & arrow / knife.

Stack up the niche skill into some "handy man" catergory and you can maybe add a sharp stone in it.

fug · 2019-10-26 05:37:16

Seems a little incomplete imo.

If I'm looking at it right attaching a piece of paper to a bow and arrow bypasses the need to learn the skill. Fishing by default is worse than shrimping and now requires you to devote a skill slot to do it. Seems weird to have fishing be a skill when something like rabbit hunting can be done without losing a skill slot too. Froe isn't on the list of skills which is either you being nice or a miss not real sure which but something like the newcomen drill which is much more useless is a skill so.

Also a little weird you can refine kerosene freely but can't really use it without being trained. I'm sure I'm still missing stuff but at least the base list is there to check out.

Keyin · 2019-10-26 05:55:32

Imagine the awkwardness of having tongs but not 'firing adobe kiln', or vice versa with no skills left.

Question, could someone use sterile knife without knife skill? would someone need to heat it for them first?

Coconut Fruit · 2019-10-26 06:13:52

Missing horse and snares.

hoe, axe, shovel, wooden tongs, kiln, hammer, oven, knife, shears.
Ez farming, cooking and smithing. These are three base things that are enough to make your family thrive, and you can do them all alone, is it intended? If yes I don't really see the point of making this whole skill thing.

Only one slot for cooking? Maybe oven should take 3 slots?
Genetis score shouldn't affect gameplay IMO, 8 slots feels too many anyway.

Keyin · 2019-10-26 06:22:47

Hmm, looking through this list I'd have to agree with Saolin 8 skills may be too many.

List of skills I would want to have:

"Needle and Ball of Thread# +toolSew"
"Needle and Thread# +toolSew"
"Dry Diesel Water Pump# +tool"
"Hot Adobe Oven# +tool"
"Firing Adobe Kiln# +tool"
"Steel Axe# +tool"
"Smithing Hammer# +tool"
"Shovel# +tool"
"Wooden Tongs# +tool"
"Knife# +tool"
"Shears# +tool"
"Stone Hatchet# +tool"
"Stone Hoe# +toolHoe"
"Steel Hoe# +toolHoe"

And thats only 12. If I understand correctly, a genetic score ~30 could get you to 12? Obviously, I would take the other skills if they were badly needed...

Last edited by Keyin (2019-10-26 06:25:29)

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-26 06:48:54

Yes, it will be adjusted as we go along.

Attaching a piece of paper bypasses, but you have to learn the bow to do that. So you can have the bowmaster attach a note. That is a hole that will be patched later, but it's not too bad.

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-26 06:56:49

Also, I may boil the frog a bit on this one.

Yes, now that you make that list, 8-16 slots does seem kinda high. I will likely lower it slowly over the coming days.

It could be 6-12...

It also doesn't have to double with genetic fitness, so it could be 8-12 or 7-12 or whatever.

Amon · 2019-10-26 11:23:38

Yes Adding rocks to tools would be utter rubbish. Especially due their multipurpose nature in cooking, smithing, skinning, building, and everyone might as well reserve a few tool slots for rocks.
Perhaps sometime in the future, when we have enough distinct tools, we could actually have distinct tool branches. Perhaps learning from the same branch (medical, smithin, building, carpenting, cooking, gardening etc.) would take less effort to learn? Hm? At that time skill points could be reduces.
Plus, it makes much more sense that a person that knows how to sew would know other skills relating to sewing.
Rather than having to find a cook that knows how to operate an oil rig.

pein · 2019-10-26 13:59:05

axe ad hatchet should be the same

also, why do I crash so often?

Coconut Fruit · 2019-10-26 14:48:10

pein wrote:

axe ad hatchet should be the same

Majority seems to not know that axe can make kindling. I keep seeing many new hatchets almost in every town, even those with so much iron. That's a waste of ropes to make hatchets.
But axe can do things that hatchet can't, so it can't be the same tool. Noobs will waste their slot for hatchets even in advanced towns. That's not so big deal.

Amon · 2019-10-26 14:58:34

It should be the same thing. A hatchet is just a primitive axe and an axe is a definitive upgrade to a hatchet.
It doesen't make sense that a person skilled in using a hatchet would be 'erm, what do i do with this' with an axe.

pein · 2019-10-26 15:39:15

I mean the soil is kinda cheap if you keeping up with compost, so a hatchet costs 4 water while the iron is still can be expensive until you make engine for the mine, so making kindling with a hatchet is understandable

some people calculated stone hoes to be a similar price to steel hoe, and hoes are the most wasteful items for iron
I mean shovels can be wasted to but overall clears free space and can't really work around it
with the rift, stone hoes became more expensive as the stones are limited.

I generally make a shovel or two but try not to make hoe until the mine is ready
you can spare the iron, on the hoe and make a knife, make pencil, recycle chisel and blade and you get the mine with 7 iron.
Duplicate tools can be an issue.

Axe, on the other hand, does everything a hatchet does, and more, so kinda understandable that people shouldn't really spend points on both if this stays the same, obvious that you rather use axe than a hatchet but on the start you can't do that, and you make kindling until you make the tools, then the axe is higher tech, but esentially same job. It's about balancing as well.

Jwillc · 2019-10-26 17:05:18

Considering all the uses for hot coals I think it should be a tool. Then we can play as the exclusive stew, kraut, turkey broth maker, fryer, grill master, and taco cook. Doing all the things with hot coals should take a skill slot.

fug · 2019-10-26 22:14:05

After fooling around with it today you probably either want less tool slots or more items being labeled as tools.

For example: To be a competent baker you need

Oven, tongs, firing kiln, knife, and maybe axe or hatchet. After that I had three slots over that I just never used because anything after that I'd felt I'd likely be spread too thin to truly cover another activity (hoe, diesel pump would have opened up farming or hammer and charcoal pencil would have opened up smithing.)

Late game smithing feels really bad since you only really need 20 minutes or so to put together a diesel engine but after you've used all your slots you end up with 5 newcomen skills, (You can skip out on drill and make someone else learn this) hammer skill, tongs skill, and then finally the knife skill (and pencil skill if you drop drill bit.) Newcomen skills are basically used 1-3 times most depending on what you're doing (roller and bore getting the most mileage) which just blows a lot of your skills for important but lackluster abilities.

You suffer from having too many slots (which is kind of nice) if you do basic levels of things like farming/smithing/baking but then suffer having all your slots filled by higher tech stuff which is mostly useless once you make one diesel engine.

It'd almost be better if it was grouped up into tiers and you were given like 3-4 points to basically spend so for example.

Basic smithing: Tongs, Pottery, Kiln, steel hammer. (one point)
Advanced smithing: Newcomen tech + attachments. (one point, two points total in the smithing tree.)

Basic cooking: Hot coals foods- shrimp, rabbits, geese, arctic char, boiling water, sugar cane pulp (one point)
Advanced cooking: Stew, kraut, bone broth, pies, mutton, turkey, omelets, tacos, burritos, carnitas, palm oil (two points total.)

Basic animal husbandry/hunting: Catching rabbits, shearing sheep, knitting needles, breeding sheep, mouflon hunting, fishing, killing sheep, hunting geese
Advanced animal husbandry/hunting: Bear hunting, wolf hunting, killing snakes, hunting boars, catching horses, shrimping, breeding cows, breeding pigs.

I could keep going but you sort of get the drift. You can have overlap in what gives out access to which tools/abilities. For example something like advanced cooking giving knife access along with advanced survival. etc etc.

jasonrohrer · 2019-10-26 23:24:40

Pein, are you experiencing crashes suddenly?

There's probably a client-side bug in the tool system somewhere.

An chance you can run in the debugger and catch it?

Anyone else experiencing crashes?

Yes, hot coals will make a great tool. I'll add that soon.

Yes, fug, I will reduce the slots today, I think, as a start. Probably 6-12 instead of 8-16.

But I hear you about the "useless" specialization for one-time things at the top.

Still, wouldn't you spend a whole life making an engine? Why not make two if you have time left over?

Anyway, it's totally possible to "group" a bunch of tools in one slot, like:

+toolCooking
+toolFabric
+toolSmithing
+toolFarming
+toolMining
+toolWeapon

etc.

And then, of course, you'd have only two slots, and have to pick which professions you want each life. It seems a bit less flexible, and also gives us less "tweaking" room. I mean, if you have 2 slots, is that too many? I can't really lower it. I also can't really raise it with genetic points too much.... 4 "meta" slots would be way too many, right?

So the single slot is more fine grained for these kinds of adjustments.

Thaulos · 2019-10-26 23:47:49

I have been experiencing crashes from time to time for a while. It's pretty rare but already happened like 4 or 5 times already. The game just quits.

You can see one of the time here:
https://youtu.be/jIKs_zmbVxY?t=2904

It seems to happen only when I'm moving or giving commands to move.

Edit: A few days ago there was someone reporting, on discord, constant game crashes on loading. But guessing it's unrelated.

Last edited by Thaulos (2019-10-26 23:51:57)

Chard · 2019-10-27 01:19:57

jasonrohrer wrote:

Anyway, it's totally possible to "group" a bunch of tools in one slot, like:
+toolCooking
+toolFabric
+toolSmithing
+toolFarming
+toolMining
+toolWeapon

Could an object be in more than one tool group? Knives for example are weapons and cooking implements.

fug · 2019-10-27 03:05:41

jasonrohrer wrote:

.
Yes, fug, I will reduce the slots today, I think, as a start. Probably 6-12 instead of 8-16.
But I hear you about the "useless" specialization for one-time things at the top.
Still, wouldn't you spend a whole life making an engine? Why not make two if you have time left over?
Anyway, it's totally possible to "group" a bunch of tools in one slot, like:
+toolCooking
+toolFabric
+toolSmithing
+toolFarming
+toolMining
+toolWeapon
etc.
And then, of course, you'd have only two slots, and have to pick which professions you want each life. It seems a bit less flexible, and also gives us less "tweaking" room. I mean, if you have 2 slots, is that too many? I can't really lower it. I also can't really raise it with genetic points too much.... 4 "meta" slots would be way too many, right?
So the single slot is more fine grained for these kinds of adjustments.

You don't make two engines in one life because generally speaking it's expensive to mass produce as you need 17 steel on hand + one iron. Also, generally speaking you'll be making the first diesel engine around or before you have oil so you can't just produce two as you have to split resources between the two projects. If you're smart about your engine you'll use it to mine a few times before setting it up for water use which opens up the chance to at least start the second diesel engine in your lifetime.

But yeah, the issue with top level content basically being a one and done is really a bad feeling. The server potentially needs a single draw blade if they pass it around which means only one person ever needs to learn the drill bit skill. This is why instead of really refined groups like you're suggesting I tried to break it down into both a base level of a skill and a more expert level of a skill. With four points (base) then I can either be really good at two things or mediocre with four. With a max of six points (30 gene score gives one, 45+ gives the second) I can be really good at 3 things or mediocre at 6.

Categories could be:

Smithing
Cooking
Constructing
Trapping/Animals
Farming
Carpentry
First aid
Weapons

If something fits into two categories like a knife is both a weapon and a cooking utensil then it's accessible either through the advanced tier of cooking OR the basic level of weapons. You'll be able to poke bread for the baker but you won't be sure how long its supposed to be in the oven. Obviously the only issue is trying to figure out what is advanced vs basic and what not.

Last edited by fug (2019-10-27 03:07:27)

pein · 2019-10-27 04:56:34

I've been testing some sprites, so I put a bit more memory to use, but wasn't close to the threshold, 8gb RAM, high megahertz, after that I started the game and my pc froze, quite unusual, not sure what was the issue

my game just quit when I picked up the bow and clicked with it, I was 10.5 old?

went to s13 and my mom started running with me, the whole world went into the fog and i crashed over and over, couldn't reconnect

i mean lately been using hetuw, and the old version was weird, the game said it's an update, it updated and loaded the vanilla exe, I updated the mod, still crashed after it, i don't think is just cause the mod cause the game crashed lately a lot more than so far in total

fug · 2019-10-27 08:05:52

Also just to point out how bad the newcomen situation is: To make an engine requires six skill slots by default due to the current design (nine slots if you don't have someone do the rubber part for you.)

Tongs, Firing kiln, newcomen hammer, newcomen roller, newcomen bore, newcomen lathe, then knife + oven use for the rubber and finally the hammer for the tank. Unless you have a decent gene score you cannot even do basic smithing (which seems kind of silly) nor can you recycle. At the very least newcomen stuff should be grouped or at least discounted to prevent forcing a player to take a bunch of skills they use once or twice in a life.

I'd say the issue is bad enough to the point where I'd recommend creating all the newcomen related stuff then killing yourself to avoid being stuck with a bunch of mostly useless skills which is kind of a problem.

Grim_Arbiter · 2019-10-27 08:33:50

I'd definitely do grouped categories over individual ones, especially since how much you are eventually going to add.

It would be better and easier in the long run to group them

Dodge · 2019-10-27 08:45:01

fug wrote:

Also just to point out how bad the newcomen situation is: To make an engine requires six skill slots by default due to the current design (nine slots if you don't have someone do the rubber part for you.)
Tongs, Firing kiln, newcomen hammer, newcomen roller, newcomen bore, newcomen lathe, then knife + oven use for the rubber and finally the hammer for the tank. Unless you have a decent gene score you cannot even do basic smithing (which seems kind of silly) nor can you recycle. At the very least newcomen stuff should be grouped or at least discounted to prevent forcing a player to take a bunch of skills they use once or twice in a life.

The engineer should not be able to be smith and vice versa, engineer needs steel and tools from smith and smith will need iron from the engineer at some point.

Maybe some newcomen stuff should be grouped if tools slots get nerfed further

The major issue is that using skills for newcomen stuff doesn't give you a lot of leverage, how valuable is the stuff you make in your current life with newcomen tools?

Could you trade for the stuff you make with newcomen?

There should be more valuable objects you can do with the newcomen tools, even if a diesel engine is highly valuable in the long run, the separate parts are almost worthless in your current life, if you dont have all of them, you couldn't really trade for the separate parts.

Who would buy a single steel valve for example?

Hitting hot iron with stone should count as smithing hammer skill (if it's not already the case) otherwise you can bypass a skill to make steel

fug wrote:

I'd say the issue is bad enough to the point where I'd recommend creating all the newcomen related stuff then killing yourself to avoid being stuck with a bunch of mostly useless skills which is kind of a problem.

Yeah you're right you can just kill yourself and come back to finish the engine that's an issue.

Thaulos · 2019-10-27 10:11:44

pein wrote:

i mean lately been using hetuw, and the old version was weird, the game said it's an update, it updated and loaded the vanilla exe, I updated the mod, still crashed after it, i don't think is just cause the mod cause the game crashed lately a lot more than so far in total

I have experienced crashes in awbz/milkweed and on hetuw. I reckon whatever is wrong is in vanilla code.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-10-26 05:16:50

List of things that will be tools

#2 2019-10-26 05:29:11

Re: List of things that will be tools

#3 2019-10-26 05:35:41

Re: List of things that will be tools

#4 2019-10-26 05:37:16

Re: List of things that will be tools

#5 2019-10-26 05:55:32

Re: List of things that will be tools

#6 2019-10-26 06:13:52

Re: List of things that will be tools

#7 2019-10-26 06:22:47

Re: List of things that will be tools

#8 2019-10-26 06:48:54

Re: List of things that will be tools

#9 2019-10-26 06:56:49

Re: List of things that will be tools

#10 2019-10-26 11:23:38

Re: List of things that will be tools

#11 2019-10-26 13:59:05

Re: List of things that will be tools

#12 2019-10-26 14:48:10

Re: List of things that will be tools

#13 2019-10-26 14:58:34

Re: List of things that will be tools

#14 2019-10-26 15:39:15

Re: List of things that will be tools

#15 2019-10-26 17:05:18

Re: List of things that will be tools

#16 2019-10-26 22:14:05

Re: List of things that will be tools

#17 2019-10-26 23:24:40

Re: List of things that will be tools

#18 2019-10-26 23:47:49

Re: List of things that will be tools

#19 2019-10-27 01:19:57

Re: List of things that will be tools

#20 2019-10-27 03:05:41

Re: List of things that will be tools

#21 2019-10-27 04:56:34

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#22 2019-10-27 08:05:52

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#23 2019-10-27 08:33:50

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#24 2019-10-27 08:45:01

Re: List of things that will be tools

#25 2019-10-27 10:11:44

Re: List of things that will be tools

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