Sheep efficiency

Bremidon · 2019-11-08 16:47:20

I'm still pretty new, but I thought that I understood how the most efficient way to use sheep is.

Feed the baby, shear and kill the adult.

I see a bunch of people who claim that they know what they are doing just feeding adults. If I have understood this correctly, this is a pretty bad waste of food.

Let's say I have 5 bowls of sheep food (which is 25 berries and 5 carrots...a pretty hefty price in water). To keep things simple, I will assume we only have one adult, but the math is the same if we had more. More adults accelerates how fast we can get resources, but does not change the actual mechanic.

If I shear the adult, then feed it, and shear it again (and so on), I will have 5 fleece to show for it.

If I only feed the baby, the shear and kill the adult, I will have 5 fleece and 20 mutton to show for it.

Am I missing something? If not, why are so many people claiming to know what they are doing shearing all the adults? I'm pretty sure they are not griefing.

DestinyCall · 2019-11-08 16:53:11

You are correct. Especially now, with water scarcity as harsh as it is, we should be maximizing mutton production so we can make more mutton pies.

That strategy for sheep management is out-dated. It is based on the idea that sometimes, it is better to keep the number of sheep small and focus on fleece production, because a well-run village ends up with an overabundance of meats (rabbit/mutton) and the sheep pen can eventually become overcrowded to the point that there are not enough free tiles for new babies/sheep dung. A crowded pen is hard to work and if you have a bunch of wooly adult sheep making babies, even a big can get very crowded.

BUT ... we now have the ability to make infinitely large pens using property fences and we have fence boxes to assist with moving mutton out of the pen. And we have a server-wide critical water shortage. Feeding adults is undeniably bad strategy now, because you lose a bunch of free mutton every time you do it.

Don't be that guy ... take care of your sheep properly. Maximize each bowl of berry/carrot. They are too valuable to waste on one ball of thread when you could be making enough mutton to feed four people.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-11-08 16:53:40)

Bremidon · 2019-11-08 17:00:43

I do understand that this can change if carrots are limited (another absolute pet peeve of mine; how hard is it to realize that if the carrots dry up, the compost dries up too, stopping all the other crops as well?).

I will sometimes shear the last adult if its clear that carrots are years away just to stop the baby body bonanza. It depends how big the pen is. If the bodies are disappearing faster than mama sheep can make them, then I'll just leave it, otherwise you end up with little dead sheep blocking up everything when carrots do finally arrive again.

Also, what is the proper moral choice in dealing with the stubborn shearers? Is it more morally right to:

A) Leave the shears out, knowing full well that this is reducing the amount of food over the long run?
B) Hide the shears, knowing that this hamstrings folks just trying to make clothes?
C) Shank the stubborn who won't listen. This one is quickly gaining in attractiveness for me.

I can't quite decide.

DestinyCall · 2019-11-08 17:02:47

cordy wrote:

also, its better to have a domestic mouflon (or two ---if its a big sheep pen)...coz they constantly give baby sheep

Actually, this is not as important as it once was. The constant baby sheep spam can get annoying and it isn't really necessary since you can "fix" the sheep quite easily if someone over-shears them.
Domestic mouflons are good for the village and should NOT be killed for meat/hide, but they aren't as critically important as a safety net for the composting cycle now that both adults and babies produce poop when fed.

In fact, if your sheep pen was built too small, it would be smart to place the domestic mouflon in a small biome outside of the village as "griefer insurance" instead of putting it in the pen directly. The mouflon's first baby can be moved into the pen and serve as the start of your sheep herd while the mouflon can be a back-up in case someone tries to kill all the sheep.

The same is even more true for a domestic bison. They can't be milked so they just take up a lot of space, dead or alive. Never bring the bison into the sheep pen. Feed it outside of the village (preferably in a small biome, since the bison and mouflon are biome-locked). Then you can go there to get more babies, if you need them without crowding up the cow pen.

Domestic boars are even worse - they are hostile and seek out people, like bears. Never put a domestic boar inside your village. Feed them in the swamp, steal their young, then kill them.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-11-08 20:17:59)

DestinyCall · 2019-11-08 17:07:22

Bremidon wrote:

Also, what is the proper moral choice in dealing with the stubborn shearers? Is it more morally right to:
A) Leave the shears out, knowing full well that this is reducing the amount of food over the long run?
B) Hide the shears, knowing that this hamstrings folks just trying to make clothes?
C) Shank the stubborn who won't listen. This one is quickly gaining in attractiveness for me.
I can't quite decide.

If I have a backpack and I care enough to intervene in someone else's life choices, I take the shears and then make it my solemn duty to watch over the sheep and tend to them properly. If they have a problem with how I'm running the pen, they can make their own set of shears or talk to me about my preferred strategy. If they desperately want to make a wool hat, they can bargain with me by bring bowls of gooseberry with carrots and helping me clear away the sheep bones.

Legs · 2019-11-08 17:45:13

"Don't shear the last sheep" is some classic ohol wisdom. Feed the babies and grow your sheep population instead. This is mostly true in young villages.

Usually there's plenty of mutton and overpopulating the sheep pen just causes clutter. Take the example in the OP. Feed 5 sheep to make a sweater or work the loom. What are you going to do with 20 pieces of mutton? Where are you going to put them all? Clog up two full slot boxes in the bakery with nothing but meat? It's more efficient but the volume of meat becomes a problem of storage and organization, and that's with just 5 sheep being butchered. If everyone left the last sheep and only fed babies you'd be drowning in mutton.

You could spend your whole life making dozens of mutton pies to keep everyone fed and it would be a pretty efficient use of resources. It's fine if people don't though.

Kaveh · 2019-11-08 17:45:13

Agreed, more mutton is good, but can people please stop smacking alllll the mutton onto pie crusts? I'm often trying to make several different pies/bread for yum and after getting a bowl of berries or carrot come back to a. the mutton I left for cooking being gone, b. having a bazillion (often still raw) mutton pies and c. the dough I left for bread being gone too. Only mutton pies, with a total of 1 yum, which could've been:
1. Cooked Mutton
2. Mutton Pie
3. Berry Pie
4. Carrot Pie
5. Rabbit Pie
6. Berry Carrot Pie
7. Berry Rabbit Pie
8. Carrot Rabbit Pie
9. Berry Carrot Rabbit Pie
10. Bread
11. Buttered bread

It's really demotivating to see all my crusts and dough gone when I'm trying to provide some variety for yum (assuming nobody sticks all the yum pies into their bp and then leaves). I often don't even try again when this happens. Mutton pie is good cuz it's cheap and nutritious, but on high yum a slice of bread, cooked mutton or a carrot pie would actually be better.

@ whoever does this, I understand you're trying to help, but you're really not (unless there's an immediate need for food to prevent mass starvation, but then you could've maybe actually baked the pies too...).

Legs · 2019-11-08 17:54:03

Kaveh wrote:

Mutton pie is good cuz it's cheap and nutritious

A lot of people think that's all that matters. The stuffing for your berry carrot pie for example could have been used to feed a sheep and make FOUR!! glorious mutton pies. Can't you see you're just wasting food??

Personally I think it's more fun to make a variety of foods, and the yum mechanic is a great incentive for that.

DestinyCall · 2019-11-08 18:06:13

Kaveh wrote:

Agreed, more mutton is good, but can people please stop smacking alllll the mutton onto pie crusts? I'm often trying to make several different pies/bread for yum and after getting a bowl of berries or carrot come back to a. the mutton I left for cooking being gone, b. having a bazillion (often still raw) mutton pies and c. the dough I left for bread being gone too.

You may not be aware of this, but berry pies are one of the worst yum foods available. There are a few others that are just as bad, but any pie with domestic berries really should not be made, full-stop. Instead, consider making something else for yumming, since there are many better options that conserve water and provide more food to non-yummers.

Some examples of better foods to yum include:

Turkey slice/drumstick/broth
Omelette (from wild egg)
Cooked goose (from wild egg or pond)
Skim milk
Whole milk
Popcorn
Baked potato/half baked potato
French fries (no ketchup)

...

I realize that pies are fast and easy to make, so the idea of making a wide variety of foods by using all the available fillings seems like a no-brainer. But you need to take into consideration the cost of the fillings. A full bowl of berries provides a huge amount of food (and multiple yum opportunities). When you put it into a pie .. and especially when you combine it with other foods, there is a steep opportunity cost. From a yum perspective and from a food efficiency perspective, it would make more sense to bake the dough into a loaf of bread and eat the fillings separately, rather than combining them into a single rabbit/carrot/berry pie. You are LOSING pips by making the pie. And if you are the only person using that pie for yum, it gets even worse, since you won't be making back the loss. It is literally a waste of good food.

In the current game state, water efficiency is super important and the biggest contribution to water use is food production. Water-efficient food production is critical to long-term village survival. Don't yum wastefully. Focus on good foods that use less water. Yum makes bad foods a little better, but it makes good foods great.

Please don't make lazy yum foods ... there are plenty of great options available that everyone can enjoy.

**This public service announcement was brought to you by the Sisterhood of Yum**

Bremidon · 2019-11-08 18:24:53

Almost every single town I have been born into so far has been on the edge of starvation. I may be fairly new still, but I have yet to really feel the problem of too much food.

I will grant that if the town is absolutely stuffed to the brim with mutton and nobody knows what to do with it, then maybe the bottleneck is somewhere else. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about towns with a few half eaten pies or towns that have a quickly growing population. In that case, it would seem to me to be pretty important that the food production remain as close to optimal as possible.

I think that the yum factor is a reasonable reason to make some alternatives. That actually bolsters the importance of handling sheep efficiently. The more efficient your sheep, the more room you have to broaden the types of food available.

The other thing is that griefers can strike at any time. If the problem with meat is finding a place to store it, perhaps the better alternative is to add storage. When the griefers hit and someone has to find a rope, figure out where the arrows got to, sally out to find a mouflon only to discover that the griefers have killed them too, meaning that someone has to spend a better part of their life just trying to get another sheep and bring it to town (oh, and hopefully the town still has carrots). If the town has a solid backup of food and compost, this won't even be noticed by most of them. If not, the town might very well die quickly.

I'm not sure that I can get behind the clutter argument. If the pen is too small to be able to handle the dead babies, then the pen is too small. There is a fairly easy solution to a pen that is too small.

Trading some direct efficiency for yum is something that I can understand. Simply throwing away meat for no real gain is less understandable for me.

Tempted · 2019-11-08 20:11:46

cordy wrote:

also, its better to have a domestic mouflon (or two ---if its a big sheep pen)...coz they constantly give baby sheep

Yep. Domestic mouflon is best

Tempted · 2019-11-08 20:15:47

What about making fully domesticated animals (sheep, pig, cow, goose. Not Domesticated Mouflon, Bison, or boar) die of old age? That way if you don't tend to them, and you don't grab the Mouflon, you could end up with no sheep? I don't think this would be a popular idea, but it would make it more interesting. Half the time a griefer kills all of them anyway lol

DestinyCall · 2019-11-08 20:23:58

Not a huge fan of old age deaths. It is one of the things I hate about dogs.

If all animals die of old age, the feeding/birthing requirements should change to allow you to have a better handle on group population dynamics. The current system is clunky and weird.

Ideally, old age and natural reproduction should be implemented uniformally across ALL animals, wild and domestic. Wild populations would reproduce on their own and die of old age without player interaction. Animals would not only die when they got too old, but they could starve if there was no food. Wild bison would eat wheat and wild sheep would graze on wild grasses. Wolves and bears would hunt them. Over-hunting by players could potentially kill off entire wild populations or cause overpopulation due to an imbalance between predator and prey. Careful herd management would allow domestic animals to flourish under human care. Failure to provide for your herds would lead to disaster.

It could be make for a very interesting and rich game experience. But it would also be a lot of work to get the balance right.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-11-08 20:35:09)

Tempted · 2019-11-08 20:34:39

DestinyCall wrote:

Not a huge fan of old age deaths. It is one of the things I hate about dogs.
If all animals die of old age, the feeding/birthing requirements should change to allow you to have a better handle on group population dynamics. The current system is clunky and weird.
Ideally, old age and natural reproduction should be implemented uniformally across ALL animals, wild and domestic. Wild populations would reproduce on their own and die of old age without player interaction. Over-hunting could potentially kill off wild populations or cause overpopulation due to an imbalance between predator and prey. Careful herd management would allow domestic animals to flourish under human care. Failure to provide for your herds would lead to disaster.
It could be make for a very interesting and rich game experience. But it would also be a lot of work to get the balance right.

Yeah. I'm good with that as long as like you said, the wild animals reproduce without assistance. Maybe if you overhunt a certain area, and the numbers reach below a certain level, the animal goes extinct?
The only thing that makes me wary, like with most updates and changes, is the fact that griefers LOVE to exploit things, and that definitely seems like something that would be ripe for exploitation. Guess you could label them poachers then.
Goes back to capital punishment and a working punishment system that, while not wiping out the opportunity to grief, discourages it so much that people would think twice before doing it. Been thinking a LOT about what that would ideally look like and well... It's a hard one lol. Griefers are incredibly persistent and can wreck things almost too easily.

DestinyCall · 2019-11-08 20:44:41

One way to deter over-hunting would be to extend tool decay to include bows and arrows. Each time you use an arrow, there is a chance that you will get a broken arrow back, instead of an intact arrow. Each time you fire a bow, it wears out a little and eventually breaks.

Then a single dedicated griefer armed with one arrow and a horsecart could not kill every mouflon on the map.

Gogo · 2019-11-08 21:02:59

DestinyCall wrote:

You may not be aware of this, but berry pies are one of the worst yum foods available.

Shit... I didn't realize this. I also didn't remember that domestic mouflon can pop babies all the time.

This game is too complex to remember everything!

Plus the time - I sometimes just put mutton on pies cause we need any food, not variety, asap!

The best solution is to have someone to work as a cook and don't interrupt that player.

---

Maybe put ! when sheep has been killed? That way we can know when griefer is taking lives of our sheeps.

Last edited by Gogo (2019-11-08 21:08:18)

DestinyCall · 2019-11-08 21:26:56

Right now, the best pie is mutton pie.

It used to be mutton OR rabbit pie, but the recent changes to rabbit hunting nerf the food value of rabbit meat enough to make it significantly weaker than mutton pie. If your village has rabbit meat, the best use for that meat is plain rabbit pie. You could also make rabbit/carrot pie and plain carrot pie for yum, since they are decent foods BUT using carrots as human food should be avoided.

Ideally, carrots (and berries) should be reserved for the compost cycle instead of being consumed for pips. These crops serve a vital role as sheep/rabbit food and cost a relatively large amount of water to replace. There are much better options available that provide more food at a much lower water cost. Experienced players should NOT eat these foods in order to provide a good example to others (even for yum!) and also try to discourage general consumption when possible.

Food variety is fun roleplay and keeps things interesting, but food efficiency is more important to keeping a lot of people fed without wasting water/iron/time.

**Water is precious! Mutton pies are life!**

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-11-08 22:22:57)

DestinyCall · 2019-11-08 21:30:29

Gogo wrote:

Maybe put ! when sheep has been killed? That way we can know when griefer is taking lives of our sheeps.

Maybe just the domestic mouflon should provide a griefer warning. The other sheep need to die routinely, so we would get alert fatigue from all the false alarms ... like when kids start messing around with snowballs and your screen gets flooded with ! signs.

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-08 21:46:02

cordy wrote:

also, its better to have a domestic mouflon (or two ---if its a big sheep pen)...coz they constantly give baby sheep

Yes, but only because people tend to shear all sheep. There would be no need to keep a domestic mouflon if people always were leaving at least one unshorn sheep.

Last edited by Coconut Fruit (2019-11-08 21:46:19)

Kaveh · 2019-11-08 22:44:06

Although I agree that there are plenty of other good yum foods, and in general berry pies are terrible because of how much water is used to make them, there is one thing that complicates the situation: high yum, the only reason to make them in the first place.

Mutton pie generally costs much less water than berry pie, yielding 76.9 food pips per water vs. 35.3 food pips per water (btw, using the apparently outdated ohol gamepedia for these numbers for lack of a better source)
But what if high yum?
Let's simplify this to a scenario where we have 4 people running on 14 yum that includes mutton pie but not berry pie.

The mutton pie would yield 60 food pips / 76.9 food pips per water
The berry pie would yield 48+4*15 food pips / 79.4 food pips per water

Suddenly the berry pie would be better to make! It's still worse than the other pies or some other food (if not consumed yet), but better than breaking yum w/ the "best" mutton pie...

I know things don't practically work this way since non-yumming people are gonna eat the berry pie and waste all the resources, but still. If everyone would yum we'd save more resources than if we'd only make mutton pies forever and ever.

Edit: Correct me if I'm wrong btw

Last edited by Kaveh (2019-11-08 22:44:32)

DestinyCall · 2019-11-08 23:48:52

Kaveh wrote:

I know things don't practically work this way since non-yumming people are gonna eat the berry pie and waste all the resources, but still. If everyone would yum we'd save more resources than if we'd only make mutton pies forever and ever.

If your yum chain could not break and everyone was able to reach very high yum chains in 60 minutes, then yes, yumming would always be the best option.

But the reality is that most people do not actively yum and even those people who care about yum frequently fail to reach high yum bonus or break their chain by accident or because they forget to get a new food ready in time. Unless you are playing by yourself or on a low pop server with people you know, it is a safest to assume you are the only person yumming in your village. Even if there are other yummers around, you can't rely on non-yummers to understand that they should avoid "yum only" foods. When you produces food, it will be eaten, by you or other people. When you make yum foods, you are using up some of the village's limited resources. It is best to focus on always making the BEST yum foods. Which doesn't always mean making the easiest or fastest option.

I don't have anything against yum. If it was unbreakable, it would be super powerful and I would want everyone to do it. But it is too fragile and too time-consuming to be practical for the majority of players. The extra time and resources required to produce a variety of yum foods tends to outweigh the potential benefits. And worse ... a lot of people think that yumming makes it okay to eat crappy food.

Some foods (like raw corn) should NEVER be eaten when other food is present and you are not in immediate risk of starvation. Corn should be allowed to dry and made into better food. Corn is the single most versitile crop in the game, but it also has the widest margin for waste if it is misused. Processing a raw ear of corn (5 pips) into a bucket of whole milk (140 pips), gives WAY more extra pips then you could possibly get from yumming, no matter how high you manage to push your yum chain. It is a really shameful thing to waste a hundred pips worth of potential food for your village, so you can gain an extra fourteen pips.

Even just processing raw corn into popcorn increases total value to twelve pips snd splits the food into four bites. This allows up to four different players to gain a yum bonus from one ear of corn, instead of just one person benefiting. So both from a total pips AND a yum perspective, eating raw corn is dumb.

Please don't yum poorly. It wastes other players' hard work and gives yumming a bad name. It hurts my brain when people defend these kind of bad eating practices by saying it is okay because they are yumming. No ... it's still bad. Knock it off.

A simple rule of thumb - if a particular food would be wasteful if eaten by a non-yummer, then you should avoid making it as a yummer. You have plenty of good options to choose from if you want to yum responsibly. If you are running out of good food options, it is usually better to let your chain break for the greater good and start a fresh chain using good high-efficiency foods. You will save both water and time by making the hard call instead of letting yourself get into bad habits, like relying on berry pies or unprocessed foods to push your chain a few points higher.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-11-09 01:54:34)

pein · 2019-11-09 00:29:07

yeah, it was always this way, when we got a buff on berries, from 60 min to 8, it was a huge buff, before that, nobody really planted berries, maybe huge towns, it was like the trees ow, you won't see it in your life, maybe if you got back but branches are a good resource

fences are free, well technically almost, one branch, you can make a big pen

I ever really had issues keeping up with compost cycle
but clothing makers are the most selfish assholes generally
the other day I fed 9 sheep and got like 4 fleece, my mother constantly stealing it, other girl stealing it
eventually got killed cause I didn't want to let them eat carrots and didn't want to give me fleece to heal dumbfucks who ran into bears

lately, I calculated the double hoe vs single hoe and was surprised that on 14 compost piles you got 220 soil bonus, and on 110 soil you spare 20 bowls of water by using hoe twice
we never really spared on water cause it was plenty, even if a lot of towns had one well, some had two or more a bit further so we had no reason to optimize for water, we could optimize for iron or soil, but now kinda makes you think
each poop also is one water, and the possibility of compost, now you might not need all the poop for compost, especially using 1 water per one bowl of soil and getting back 4x the soil on the compost but around half of it can be used up, and you can stick an egg into it to make it permanent and use up the others first, make a new pen when one gets full and rotate

same for the meat, we had issues with space, that's why was ok to feed adult sheep, cause nobody could keep up with all the rabbits and mutton
but now, I rarely seen enough pies around the town, I had lifes where I was forced to eat berries all my life and maybe a half pie

one way to stop those leaches is taking the shears away, that is totally okay when you are the one who fed the sheep, can be annoying if someone takes it and doesn't let you get your fleece, ever since it was fixed that adult sheep also gives poop, that issue was fixed, plus a lot of towns got multiple shears
the other way to force people to do the right thing is to kill every naked sheep
that's why mouflon is great, they produce lambs all the time and can't be sheared, so it's quite dumb to kill it
personally I like to produce multiple sheep and multiple lambs, cause you can take 6 or even 8 sheep food to the pen and feed altogether, so waiting for lambs is just so slow, but since people shear every single sheep at age 3, you can't really do that

plus there are the people who don't work with the sheep but are annoyed by the dead lambs

generally, when I make pens, I make an oven under it, as the end of the central entrance, with 2-4 boxes above it, fence boxes decent, slot boxes even better (leave some normal ones on the side for fleece and bone baskets).
That allows stocking the excess mutton meat near an oven and even if they don't make pies, it can be cooked on its own, compared to nothing, it's still good to have cooked mutton

I call it megamutonator, I'm sure some of you seen it in some cities

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-09 01:30:00

Kaveh wrote:

The mutton pie would yield 60 food pips / 76.9 food pips per water
The berry pie would yield 48+4*15 food pips / 79.4 food pips per water

Actually it's not very correct math. If you make 15 yum chain through life then every food gives you +7.5 pips more on average. I mean, if a berry pie was eaten at your beginning chain (let's say when you have 3 chain), would you count it like this: 48+4*3 ? It's better to count your average food gain. So correct math if you make 15 yum chain through life would be like this: 48+4*7.5. Seems like it's still worse than a mutton pie for a non yummer.

I don't like talking about yumming. Yumming is not efficient, it consumes time and focus and it doesn't save any more water comparing to eating only high efficient foods.

Kaveh wrote:

Agreed, more mutton is good, but can people please stop smacking alllll the mutton onto pie crusts

Sorry, I'm selfish non yummer and I do smack all the mutton onto pie crusts
Poor yummers will have to lose even more of their focus to find yum foods /sad

Tho yumming is very nice mechanic. It would be cool if it actually mattered to yum.

Edit: Btw, non yumming is even cooler in wild. I can eat all will berries without worrying about my yum. If I eat all berries from 3 wild berry bushes that means I have 90 free food pips. I kinda wish wild berries were limited, they are too op.

Last edited by Coconut Fruit (2019-11-09 01:42:29)

DestinyCall · 2019-11-09 03:22:57

Comparing yum to non-yum is complex and hard for non-math oriented people to do properly. It is easy to get lost in the numbers, since you can't just look at two foods with or without yum and consider it a valid comparison. Yum bonus gets higher as your chain gets longer, so yum gets better and better. But it can also end at any moment if you eat the wrong thing. And you are also limited by the number of times you are able to eat in your lifetime. As your chain gets longer and the yum bonus higher, you can go longer without eating. But this also means it takes more time to hit the really high numbers where you get the big bonuses. Even if you are careful to keep your chain going for your whole life, you might not break x20 because there just isn't enough time. Ironically, if you are careful to wear plenty of clothing and stay at a good temperature, you will have lower hunger drain, need to eat less often, and end up with a lower lifetime yum chain. To reach very high yum, you need to eat more frequently and would end up consuming MORE than someone who keeps their food requirements low and does not try to max their chain. In theory, the highest possible yum would require eating every food in the game one time, but in actual practice, you will probably not even reach half that number before hitting sixty years old and dying of old age.
...

I played around with the problem a while back and eventually came up with a strategy to compare yumming to efficient eating. I don't have the calculations in front of me and the food values have changed for some of the foods, but the results should be essentially the same.

First, I made a rough calculation of how many pips are consumed, on average, over a single lifetime. This number was not exact, because hunger drain varies dramatically based on average temperature, but it gave me a starting point. Then I compiled a list of foods that were high efficiency "good foods" and another list of low efficiency "bad foods". Next, I built a theoretical "yum chain" using foods from each list that would add up to the same total pip value when factoring in yum bonus. The idea was to make a "best case"/"worst case" comparison between yumming efficiently and yumming poorly. I ended up with roughly twenty food items in each list, organized from "best to worst", which accounted for almost every food item in the game at that time. Then I calculated how many pies you would need to achieve the same total pips on a diet of only rabbit pies. Lastly, I compared the water consumption for eating only rabbit pies without any yum-chaining to efficient yumming and bad yumming.

In this way, I was able to compare three possible diets which would provided the same total pips over a lifetime, and then see which option was most efficient in terms of water conservation. Not surprisingly, efficient yum-chaining is very nice. Even though you must eventually eat foods that are less water efficient than rabbit pies, the extra pips from yum will offset the higher resource cost. It is noticably better and improves even more as your chain grows. On the other hand, bad yumming takes much longer to become profitable, since there are many foods that consume a lot more water than rabbit pies (this was before the rabbit hunting change). Even with a modest yum bonus, they are still going to be worse. However, if you manage to keep the chain going long enough, the yum bonus will eventually help dig you out of the hole. So at the higher end of the yum chain, either kind of yumming is more water efficient than a mono diet of meat pie. BUT ... if you yum poorly and your chain breaks before reaching those higher yum bonuses ... bad yumming can be a lot worse.

There is basically a "sweet spot" where you must get the yum chain bonus at least X high before it is a good idea to eat certain foods. Eating them too early in the chain puts you at much higher risk of waste, should you find yourself unable to keep your chain going for some reason. Efficient foods can be eaten at any time, but less efficient foods should be reserved for later when you can be assured that your yum bonus will cover the higher resource costs. And certain foods have additional costs that make them a bad investment, regardless of yum bonus.

As a final test, I looked at a mono-diet using milk ... it was better than EITHER style of yumming because whole milk is crazy water-efficient. You literally can't beat a milk diet with yum alone. It uses very little water and provides a lot of pips. Unfortunately, it doesn't stow in a backpack, so pies are still more practical for travel. On average, the pie diet was as good or better than short-chain yumming. So if you find that you have a hard time maintaining double-digit yum chains ... just stick to pies. You will spend less time worried about yum foods and more time improving the village.

...

TLDR - eat good foods and drink your milk. Don't eat junk food.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-11-09 03:34:05)

Coconut Fruit · 2019-11-09 09:36:41

Why rabbit pies and not mutton? It's a big difference. Rabbit pies aren't that cool anymore after rabbit update. And also I don't think you can get to 20 yum chain, unless you are naked. When I yummed I always ended with 16-17 yum, even tho I ate all smallest foods.

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