Sheep efficiency

Kaveh · 2019-11-09 11:29:09

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Kaveh wrote:
The mutton pie would yield 60 food pips / 76.9 food pips per water
The berry pie would yield 48+4*15 food pips / 79.4 food pips per water
Actually it's not very correct math. If you make 15 yum chain through life then every food gives you +7.5 pips more on average. I mean, if a berry pie was eaten at your beginning chain (let's say when you have 3 chain), would you count it like this: 48+4*3 ? It's better to count your average food gain. So correct math if you make 15 yum chain through life would be like this: 48+4*7.5. Seems like it's still worse than a mutton pie for a non yummer.

Using 7.5 makes sense if you eat it at any point in the yum chain, but I was talking about eating it as your 15th food - the order in which you eat things matters a lot in this case, cuz you can eat the more efficient foods first and the less efficient foods later to make them more efficient. As Destiny says:

DestinyCall wrote:

There is basically a "sweet spot" where you must get the yum chain bonus at least X high before it is a good idea to eat certain foods.

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Coconut Fruit wrote:

And also I don't think you can get to 20 yum chain, unless you are naked. When I yummed I always ended with 16-17 yum, even tho I ate all smallest foods.

I've gotten to higher than that quite a few times, both as boy and girl, while wearing clothes. I generally don't eat until I really need to (i.e. no pie when I'm only 1 pip short from full), but I focus a lot on the smaller foods to get my yum up, like you said. Maybe there's just more than you realise. Corn is a difficult one there- what I generally do if I have no other yum options but corn is I'll shuck one for myself, but also shuck a few more to dry, just to 'force' the use of dry corn later on.

Travel (diff biomes)/wild foods help a lot to get yum up as a boy, and as a girl you just need to have a lot of kids since you need to feed them and lose pips faster. I've seen some people nurse on purpose just to get their pips down, but I've never done that myself (cuz THAT seems like a waste of resources to me).

FulmenTheFinn · 2019-11-09 12:34:26

IIRC the only benefit of feeding lambs over shorn sheep is that with lambs it takes a lot less time for them to produce sheep shit. With shorn sheep you should generally try and wait until they shit, before killing or shearing them again.

Bremidon · 2019-11-09 13:17:24

FulmenTheFinn wrote:

IIRC the only benefit of feeding lambs over shorn sheep is that with lambs it takes a lot less time for them to produce sheep shit. With shorn sheep you should generally try and wait until they shit, before killing or shearing them again.

No.

I already did the math, but I will repeat the conclusion here.

If I shear the adult, then feed it, and shear it again (and so on), I will have 5 fleece to show for it.

If I only feed the baby, then shear and kill the adult, I will have 5 fleece and 20 mutton to show for it.

20 mutton is a huge difference in my opinion.

FulmenTheFinn · 2019-11-09 13:44:05

Bremidon wrote:

FulmenTheFinn wrote:
IIRC the only benefit of feeding lambs over shorn sheep is that with lambs it takes a lot less time for them to produce sheep shit. With shorn sheep you should generally try and wait until they shit, before killing or shearing them again.
No.
I already did the math, but I will repeat the conclusion here.
If I shear the adult, then feed it, and shear it again (and so on), I will have 5 fleece to show for it.
If I only feed the baby, then shear and kill the adult, I will have 5 fleece and 20 mutton to show for it.
20 mutton is a huge difference in my opinion.

Obviously if you're killing the sheep you'll want to produce more to replace the butchered ones, that's a given.

I should have clarified that I meant if the goal is mainly to shear or produce sheep shit, then IIRC there is no difference between feeding lambs and adult sheep, minus the added wait with the latter.

Potjeh · 2019-11-09 14:31:44

Yum pies are a waste of time. Searching baskets for the right pie takes too long so most people don't bother, if you want to improve yum of your town's average citizen focus on foods that are easier to spot.

As for sheep efficiency, handling mutton takes like five times longer than just handling wool from feeding adults. Sure, you got more food from making meat, but how much food did you lose from people running around naked because wool production is too slow?

Last edited by Potjeh (2019-11-09 14:34:41)

DestinyCall · 2019-11-09 16:04:25

Potjeh wrote:

As for sheep efficiency, handling mutton takes like five times longer than just handling wool from feeding adults. Sure, you got more food from making meat, but how much food did you lose from people running around naked because wool production is too slow?

If people are truly naked, you should be killing adults to make sheepskins, not over-shearing to produce wool items. Wool clothing is the least efficient clothing option and should be avoided in times of famine and clothing shortage. The most useful wool item is the apron which doesn't even provide insulation. Also keep in mind that the lost food potential from feeding adult sheep is even more of a problem when the village have no clothes. The lack of clothing will mean your village is eating through its existing food stores even faster, so a reasonable amount of pies/stew/berries will be gone much sooner. You NEED that mutton.

To cloth a naked village, focus on FAST clothing and WARM clothing. Wool clothing is neither.

...

If you have rabbit skins, make backpacks. It provides less insulation, but a good villager with a backpack can work faster and stay alive longer. In my opinion, the backpack is your best survival tool, because it saves lives and saves time, which is the most precious resource, especially during a famine.

If you already have enough backpacks and you still have a lot of rabbit skins, check your supply of thread. When thread is limited but rabbit skins are in good supply, make rabbit coats and rabbit hats. These items have high insulation and low thread cost. When rabbit skins are in short supply, but thread is plentiful, make rabbit loincloth and rabbit shoes. These items require more thread and will decay, but provide better insulation than other available clothing options.

If you don't have enough rabbits and thread is limited (no sheep or no shears), then you will want to aim for making clothing items that provide highest insulation (seal skin coat, wolf hat) OR make clothing that doesn't require thread at all (mouflon skin, seal skin, sheep skin) OR making clothes that will never decay (straw hat, reed skirt, wood shoes, loom clothing).

- To make wolf hat and mouflon skin, you'll need a bow/arrow. Most early camps have one of these somewhere and almost all advanced towns have one. It might take a little hunting to find it, since people tend to drop them out in the wild when they finish hunting or leave them on the village outskirts.

- To make seal skin, you only need a long shaft and access to tundra. Hunting seals should be a priority in early camps, because it requires no advanced tool and when you gain access to thread, the seal hide can be upgraded to seal skin coat when is the best torso piece. This is a huge benefit for a town with limited clothing items.

- To make reed skirt, you need a ROPE and reed bundle. This can be one of the easiest clothing items to make in an early camp and it never decays. Unfortunately, it costs twice as much thread as the other available options and you can't make it cheaper by getting sheep. However, if you have ample wild milkweed near your starting camp, this is a decent early clothing item now that rabbit hunting is harder. The only other early-game clothing item that can be used in this slot is the rabbit loincloth, which provides more insulation but decays. Later on, you can replace with non-decaying loom clothing.

- To make straw hat, you just need straw and thread. Don't make these hats from milkweed thread, since it is a waste. But once you have access to cheaper thread from sheep fleece, you should make sure that EVERYONE in the village is wearing a hat. Straw hat never decays and encourages people to become a farmer. Make lots of them.

- To make wood shoes, you need access to advanced iron tools so it usually isn't an option in a very early camp, but any camp with a deep well or beyond should have wood-working tools. The adze is used on a log to make a mallet, then you can use it on the mallet to make a single wood shoe. You can make shoes out of old mallets as long as you convert them to shoes before they break. Ideally, you should try to remember to do this occasionally any time you are doing work that requires a mallet. Make a few extra mallets, use them five or six times, then turn them into shoes. Or you can make a new mallet and turn it into shoes immediately. The main limiting factor is log supply. Don't turn all the logs into wooden shoes - there are many other good uses for logs. But if you notice that everyone is barefoot ... MAKE SHOES! A pair of wood shoes provides the same insulation as wearing a straw hat. You would put on a hat if your head was naked. Remember to put on shoes if your feet are naked.

Another overlooked footwear option is the snakeskin boot/frootboot/sandal. All you need is a knife and access to a desert to gather snakeskins. The snakeskin boot looks stylish and can carry a cactus fruit around for you. Sandals can be made by using shears on the boot. The sandal loses 1% of insulation and gains non-decay status.

Don't wear old boots. They provide 0% insulation.

...

If you are in an advanced village that does not have fancy clothing, consider making a loom to bring better clothing to the masses. Generating fleece for making LOOM clothing in a village with stable food supply and ample mutton reserves is one of the rare scenarios where it might make sense to prioritize fleece production and ignore mutton. But even in this case, I'd argue that the extra time used to store the mutton in non-decaying baskets is highly beneficial to future generations. You are creating a significant food reserve for every clothing item produced on the loom. Intentionally avoiding mutton production to save yourself time is just lazy sheep-tending.

Long story short, unless you are in a hurry to make a white dress so you can get married before your husband dies, there's no reason to rush fleece production in such a wasteful manner. Take the time to do it right and you'll be providing twice as much benefit to the village.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-11-09 16:53:26)

DestinyCall · 2019-11-09 16:33:56

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Why rabbit pies and not mutton? It's a big difference. Rabbit pies aren't that cool anymore after rabbit update. And also I don't think you can get to 20 yum chain, unless you are naked. When I yummed I always ended with 16-17 yum, even tho I ate all smallest foods.

Because I did the calculations about six months ago when rabbit pies were just as good (or better) than mutton pie. Calculating water consumption for mutton pie is a little weird because it is essentially a by-product of the composting cycle if people are tending sheep properly. You could make a reasonable argument for mutton pie being essentially "free" since you will produce four mutton and one pile of grain every time you make a pile of compost. Making wheat dough costs one bowl of water, but should you also count the water cost of the bowl of berry/carrot used to produce the sheep? What if you use wild berries and carrots instead of domestically grown? Looking at rabbit meat was easier, because the only water cost was from the wheat dough.

In the current game, water costs for rabbit meat are highly variable, depending on if you are baiting with burdock, wild bowl or farmed berry/carrot bowl. Even so, the basic results of the comparison are unchanged. Feel free to run the numbers yourself, if you are curious about the exact breakdown between an efficient mono-diet and good/bad yumming.

Kaveh wrote:

Using 7.5 makes sense if you eat it at any point in the yum chain, but I was talking about eating it as your 15th food - the order in which you eat things matters a lot in this case, cuz you can eat the more efficient foods first and the less efficient foods later to make them more efficient.

Just to clarify, eating an inefficient food with a high yum chain doesn't make that food more efficient. Bad foods are still bad foods. Yum doesn't really fix that. By eating an inefficient food you are basically wasting some of the yum bonus to make up for the poor food choice. And some bad foods have such a high opportunity cost associated with consumption that even with yum bonus, you can't fix them (I'm looking at you, raw corn!). Keep in mind that it would still be much better to stick with "good" foods only, since they gain the same yum benefits AND their baseline resource efficiency is better. There are currently more than forty unique foods in the game. If you are making smart food choices and staying warm, you should only need around 15 to 20 bites of food in your whole life. So you can live your whole life without eating any bad foods AND maintain a solid yum chain.

When using yum to reduce your resource impact on the village, best practice is to NEVER produce bad foods for yumming purposes and always aim to consume the most efficient foods available. Focus on providing high efficiency food diversity so the entire village can benefit and don't be afraid to break your chain if you run out of good food variety, especially when this happens early in your life. You will have plenty of time to build a new chain from better foods.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-11-09 17:57:00)

One Hour One Life Forums

#26 2019-11-09 11:29:09

Re: Sheep efficiency

#27 2019-11-09 12:34:26

Re: Sheep efficiency

#28 2019-11-09 13:17:24

Re: Sheep efficiency

#29 2019-11-09 13:44:05

Re: Sheep efficiency

#30 2019-11-09 14:31:44

Re: Sheep efficiency

#31 2019-11-09 16:04:25

Re: Sheep efficiency

#32 2019-11-09 16:33:56

Re: Sheep efficiency

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