Coming Soon: Family Specialization

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-13 22:15:41

Toxolotl: oil will be in snow only, as described in original post.

Kaveh · 2019-11-13 22:16:00

jasonrohrer wrote:

Maybe:
Iron veins may move to desert

What? People can't even build a well without a shovel

Gomez · 2019-11-13 22:17:58

I like it enforce a culture on the races. We as players will adjust. So vets means we gotta spread the word write notes in towns explaining culture mechanics. i.e. Hey we're desert specialist we trade horses for rubber or w.e.

Make it part of your child rearing spiel "hello child we're desert people, mau dib! We collect horse dye fine cloth and make snake boots.

Plenty we can do as players to adjust. Also make roads and maps more valuable. Start exploring and connecting towns without trade civ won't last long.

edit - Honetly I've heavily influenced eating habits by prominently displaying soup and efficient foods. When I don't cook my fitness drops tbh. Pie gobbling is convenient and any bebe who grab pie gets scolded by this eve tbh and even tk'ed.

I've have been attempting to explore and connect towns and ruins on a few lives, but when I don't cook the civ suffers ironically.

Last edited by Gomez (2019-11-13 22:26:12)

jinbaili83 · 2019-11-13 22:19:35

*To encourage players to explore outside of their village bubbles and find other families

- finding places in vanila client is super hard, grid tapout may help to find villages
- maybe some lowtech version of bell tower or signpost/landmarks that are "visible" from greater distance

*Only specialists can manipulate/pick/drop objects in a specialty biome

- stolen items can be safely hiden in special biomes
- What about attacking other or map making

*Some way that rubber is consumed on a regular basis by a high-tech civ, to make a constant supply of jungle and desert products necessary

- timing belt that brakes is good candidate

Also give specialists some some buff in their biomes.

Kaveh · 2019-11-13 22:23:56

This feels extremely limiting tbh. I understand certain people being BETTER at things, but not them being the ONLY ONES who can do these things.

Black/brown people could have better heat resistance, white people better cold resistance
Black people are better at mining iron (if in desert), white at getting oil (if in snow), brown at getting rubber/palm kernels. Bigger payouts, less effort or tools needed, that kinda stuff.
Maybe add a food to snow biome and make it so black people are the only ones that can eat cacti fruit (otherwise its a - instead of + on pips, so eating one is always a bad idea and can even kill you on low pips), brown people are the only ones that can eat mangoes, white people are the only ones that can eat.. some type of snow-berry

Legs · 2019-11-13 22:24:42

Gomez wrote:

I like it enforce a culture on the races.

help pls the suave ebony man in froot boots keeps giving bedroom eyes and hubba hubba at my daughter pls help

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-13 22:24:43

Yes, this update will create a ton of new problems:

--How to get a horse?

--How to get rubber?

--How to make colored clothing?

--How to get snakeskin boots?

--How to get a seal coat?

--How to get bananas?

Before, the answer to all of these was the same:

Solution A: "Walk around until you find the necessary ingredients, then get them and make it."

Now the solution to these problems will be quite different. Not impossible, though.

Playing games is about solving problems. My job is to make the problems present in the game as interesting as possible. I've come to the conclusion that Solution A just isn't interesting enough. Piling on more content that is just another variation of Solution A is not going to make the game much more interesting.

If you're worried about clueless players, they aren't building a Newcomen pump anyway, right? And an expert player is going to be unable to solve these problems? Unable to find another village? Unable to trade for a rubber ball to bootstrap the communication process? How about a slip of paper that says, "I'll give you my blue hat if you can give me a rubber ball." Or find a non-specialist person to come along and translate?

jasonrohrer · 2019-11-13 22:25:40

Kaveh wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
Maybe:
Iron veins may move to desert
What? People can't even build a well without a shovel

Not surface iron. Iron veins for mining.

Twisted · 2019-11-13 22:26:27

Dodge wrote:

Right...
Only black people can get horses, so how will other people find other "race" villages on an infinite map?

Wow, I hadn't even thought of that but you're completely right - horses are only found in deserts.

Desert Fam has exclusive access to horses, dyes, paint, sulphur.

Arctic Fam has exclusive access to oil (but no way to tap it), seals, and shrimp,

Jungle Fam has exclusive access to rubber trees and oil palms (but they can't make rubber), tomatoes, bananas, and Apocalypse.

My prediction of the Eve meta:

Desert Fam: Run N/S/E until you find an Arctic or, ideally, Jungle Fam. Get horses and find the third fam.

Jungle & Arctic Fams: Settle in place and hope that a Desert Fam finds you before you all die.

Other Fams: /die

Potential problems:

Only the Jungle Fam will be able to start and stop the apocalypse as the towers will probably be built in Jungles.

It will be really easy to grief other towns unless they have all three families. Find another town (very easy if you have a horse), take their stuff and drop it in the nearest inacessible biome.

If you're in a non-Desert fam and have a horse cart somehow, just load it up and run into the nearest snake. No more horse cart, no more stuff.

Funnily enough, because of the griefing potential, I have a feeling trading will be even worse than before (if that's even possible). If you trade for X special biome resource it will be very easy for a griefer to snatch it and run into an inaccessible biome. There's no easy way to recover from that, so every village will be required to have one of every 3 biome fams.

Gomez · 2019-11-13 22:28:20

Also I've found people are indifferent to trade so a forced in game mechanic to make trade part of tech tree is a good change imo. People usually just end of giving me what I'm after rather than transacting the trade tbh.

On one of my exploration runs as an old woman I found a town. I collected a horse brought it to town as trade and the town killed me because they assumed I was making horse to grief or w.e.

Was pretty disappointing just axed for giving town a horse. Where as now if I roll into town with a horse they gonna be willing to trade for that quite valuable horse.

At what point will horse become interactable by other specialties? tamed horse? saddled?

Last edited by Gomez (2019-11-13 22:33:18)

DiscardedSlinky · 2019-11-13 22:34:26

jasonrohrer wrote:

Slinky, why soft, optional specialization?

To make it actually possible to survive. Maybe not everything could be soft specialized, but rubber definitely should.

Even if you do manage to find the right skin toned family they could just kill you out of fear. You'd have to spend so much time with them to teach them the language (Which would still be very broken english) and wait for the kid to be old enough to do the things you want them to do. Good luck GETTING THEM to do what you want them to do. Trade? You mean that basket of iron you're carrying? Did he steal that? No one else would understand what is going on besides you and the kid who can hardly understand you. Even if everything works out you'd be old as dirt when everything was finally done. You won't be able to make it home in time to give your family the rubber tire it's desperate for because you're an old fuck. No one else in your family would even know you're alive and doing it. They could be dead by the time you get home, if you do.

Well why don't you just merge the families then?
1: Good luck with all the racists out there. People STILL kill people for not having their last name.
2: During a time when you NEED a pump food is short, and people are really reluctant to allow an entire family in. Even if they do mass starvations usually ensue, and the family you just spent your entire life trying to save dies.
3:Your family might not survive a trip far away. Without clothes, or pads a death or two is very likely.

Let's say you do merge the families, and everything is fine for a while. What happens when they die? What happens when griefers kill all the colored families to prevent progress for everyone?

Time to move again? Time to walk across the map and pray you can find someone to help? Time to lose the home your family just spent thousands of hours making?

Toxolotl · 2019-11-13 22:35:08

This is more likely to turn into "give me all your rare resources and ill give you my knife in your belly"

I guess its time to dust off the old pirate hat.

Twisted · 2019-11-13 22:43:15

Gomez wrote:

At what point will horse become interactable by other specialties? tamed horse? saddled?

As soon as it's not inside the desert. The specialization won't block you from interacting with certain items, just from general interactions inside in a certain biome. If someone puts a Shovel inside the Desert you won't be able to pick it up unless you're Desert Fam.

Kaveh · 2019-11-13 22:43:46

jasonrohrer wrote:

Kaveh wrote:
jasonrohrer wrote:
Maybe:
Iron veins may move to desert
What? People can't even build a well without a shovel
Not surface iron. Iron veins for mining.

Aight that makes more sense. What if other ultra-necessary things like the ingredients for rubber can be found in other places in limited quantities as well? Or some other replacement for the rubber needed for a newcomen (whatev, slap a snake skin in there or somethin)? I'm personally okay with needing to trade/work together for oil or a lot of iron, but I think trading in specific should only affect the development of towns at a later stage, not early on.

If trading is necessary from the start, it'd make more sense to be a nomad Eve than actually start a town anywhere (depending on the colour of your skin). Moving in together and starting a bigger town would make a lot more sense than 'trading' too. In that case you could even force something like pale people being the only ones who can start a well, so the other families will HAVE to move there. But then why would you care more about members from your family (that is, cousins, aunts, the ones that don't affect your score) than from a different family? Someone with a different skin tone would be more useful than your aunt.

Kaveh · 2019-11-13 22:49:18

Oh what I also wanted to say: I do really like the idea of the desert people being the only people who can dye clothes. They'd be a colourful culture compared to the other people who can only wear white clothes and fur at the start.

I guess the reason I like this better is cuz it isn't anything completely necessary for survival, yet very neat.

Legs · 2019-11-13 22:49:55

Kaveh wrote:

Moving in together and starting a bigger town would make a lot more sense than 'trading' too.

Realistically, this is going to be the situation for any town that survives long enough.

Toxolotl wrote:

This is more likely to turn into "give me all your rare resources and ill give you my knife in your belly"

And this in any town that's having trouble getting there.

olooopo · 2019-11-13 23:13:50

There is no rational and intuitive explanation for why a naked redhead can handle things in the arctic but a pale-colored with full clothing does not. It just makes the game more complicated, it does not add anything to it.

Last edited by olooopo (2019-11-13 23:14:14)

lilo · 2019-11-13 23:14:37

This update sounds promising! it will make each life a bit diferent depending on the family you are born and also now finally trade will be a necessary thing. Of course for it to work each one has to have things that have the same value, if one has something everybody needs but doesnt really need that much what the others have, why would they exchange or why would they exchange at a fair rate?, i dont know what thing can be as useful as oil or iron at this moment tho, maybe certain crops.

One thing that could make it more interesting is if each specialization had its own culture, like a building style, clothes, etc. So a town from the gingers would always be diferent from the others even if all are build in the green biome.

Last edited by lilo (2019-11-13 23:49:15)

Keyin · 2019-11-13 23:15:44

No one is going to live in dessert/arctic/jungle in the current state because:

1) biomes are too small
2)biomes have no water
3)annoying unkillable entities (mosquitoes, penguins)

Therefore:
they will all live in grassland near their special biome. They may use as storage but it is unlikely due to inconvenience of running back and forth.

Overall I am against this change. I would rather certain families have HUGE advantages over others when it comes to something, not "I can't get this item because I am not black"

Maybe lock certain recipes to families, and you can learn recipes from watching other families (similar to language), or different quality goods,

When explorers go to a new part of the world, most of the time it isn't "wow, they can do something we cant" it's "why didn't we think of that before?" or "wow, resources capable of this are something that actually exist"

~~~

While I am against this somewhat, in order for it to work the problems I mentioned above would probably need to be addressed, in addition each family will need a resource with the following properties:
-consumable(so that they need to come back for more)
-slowly depleted or renewable(so that the family stays relevant late game without needing to move)
-'necessary' to long-term survival

Currently, I think gingers would be the only ones with a resource(oil) that fits all 3 conditions. But even oil will run out fairly quickly if one family has a monopoly.

I trade a tank of oil for a horse, another for some sulfur, another for some rubber, and then after that I cut off the oil supply to the other families.

Sorry 'Murica, no more foreign oil for you. This stuff is too precious.

karltown_veteran · 2019-11-13 23:57:13

If you’re going to make trade necessary, please move towns closer to each other + make them more reachable (without having to spend 30 years galloping around on a horse only to find nothing.)
I’m all for this I just am not sure it will pan out the way you want it to.

karltown_veteran · 2019-11-14 00:03:00

Also how do you expect the teenagers that play this game to be able to trade and compromise like trained adults? The easiest option will be war.
You’re sending mixed messages Jason. You say we should trade and then you give us war swords.

karltown_veteran · 2019-11-14 00:05:30

How about people of other families have to say “I trade with x” in order to touch the coats / bananas alreAdy made and lying on the ground? And if all of one family dies or is killed their resources dissapear with the last of the line? Makes war for resources pointless.

DestinyCall · 2019-11-14 00:27:09

Gomez wrote:

I like i Pie gobbling is convenient and any bebe who grab pie gets scolded by this eve tbh and even tk'ed.

Wait ... you would kill a child for eating a meat pie? Pie is a highly efficient food. What would you rather have the kid eat?

fug · 2019-11-14 00:31:58

This is silly Jason.

What you propose happens: Players of different races stay segregated in their own communities only interacting whenever another race needs something from them or they need something from another race.

Reality of what will happen: Players will just send people of different skin tones to different towns to help get around people of one race only being able to interact with special biome items.

You will make every town be REQUIRED to all be a big hodge podge of different races to function. Every town will require three different families at the very least and will be better if each race is represented in each town. People are either going to start trying to steal shit from each other or proceed to congeal into one city/mixed cities.

Hell, if you're a white Eve you might as well instantly suicide since your children have no value what so ever and you're just taking up an Eve slot while being useless. White Eves are the new male LOL.

fug · 2019-11-14 00:33:09

DestinyCall wrote:

Gomez wrote:
I like i Pie gobbling is convenient and any bebe who grab pie gets scolded by this eve tbh and even tk'ed.
Wait ... you would kill a child for eating a meat pie? Pie is a highly efficient food. What would you rather have the kid eat?

Read their other posts they're just a troll who hasn't invested anything in learning the game. Silly silly.

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