Not very accessible for new players

psyduck · 2019-11-22 07:05:34

If you can speak English, you will be lucky if you can meet someone who teaches you.
I can't speak English, so it's hard to ask and answer.
So I observed other players. And learn by watching other people's play videos. Prepare with TechTree.

The basic work is always there. Observe while avoiding hunger.
And you will notice that you remember. if you think you can do it, try it.

I want you to know. People who don't speak English are also playing.
Because this is an interesting game for me.

miskas · 2019-11-22 07:42:05

I like teaching kids,
But only if I have only 1 of them and be in a wealthy area,
too crowded areas don't have food and food is a demand for teaching.

Always include a berry bowl in your teachings!
In fact, how to grab wild berries from the wild is the most important lesson to give.
Go far, find Full bushes, let 1 berry for others.

when you wanna help just ask JOB? to your mother or someone, you see that knows what he is doing.

Last edited by miskas (2019-11-22 08:03:18)

Hewlett · 2019-11-22 07:56:53

Hi Kaidu,

It is always good to get feedback from new players. First of all, i will recomend you a bit of patience, the learning curve in this game is tough but satisfying in the long run. You have been playing the game for a couple of days, is quite normal that your are deorientated. It will take you a bit more to learn enough to fully enjoy the game.
Also you have to understand expert players. This week has been super crazy. Trying to run an eve camp when there are babies running around grabing and droping stuff randomly its pretty hard. Its normal than some people are trying to relax now that big cities have been stablish and just work on their own projects.
If you get a not nice answer from someone, just look for someone else or try to learn by observation. These days many new players have been checking on me while working and i always end up teaching them the basics so they can help me.

Something that helped me a lot when i started playing was watching the gameplays of "Twisted" (you can check them in youtube). He posts several gameplays per week and even they are not tutorials perse, you can learn a lot of things. Moreover its quite enternaining.

Be patient, dont give up, ask doubts in the forum. Compared with other games i really love OHOL player comunity. Focus on the positive points, there are many

MrShuriken · 2019-11-22 09:25:11

"give a man a fish, he eats for a day; If you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."
Same concept, give new players the carrots, we supply them for 1 life
teach a village to farm carrots, We supply them forever

Kinrany · 2019-11-22 15:52:16

The game may be relying too much on meta knowledge. But that's a super hard problem, I think. If solved, the solution could be easily applied to real world organizations.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Anyone with half a brain would jump at the chance for free labor from you. I know I would.

Jason, delegating work is a skill.

A skill you can learn a bit while playing OHOL, which is super cool, but a skill nonetheless. And not a common one, I think, especially since most players are not very old IRL.

You most likely know all this, of course, but I think you may be underestimating how hard it is, because it's easy for you.

DestinyCall · 2019-11-22 16:32:35

Kinrany wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
Anyone with half a brain would jump at the chance for free labor from you. I know I would.
Jason, delegating work is a skill.
A skill you can learn a bit while playing OHOL, which is super cool, but a skill nonetheless. And not a common one, I think, especially since most players are not very old IRL.
You most likely know all this, of course, but I think you may be underestimating how hard it is, because it's easy for you.

In real life or in the game? I seem to recall reading that one of the reasons that Jason avoids getting more people to work on OHOL is because he feels like it would slow him down. He would spend more time managing others, rather than working on the project.

Pretty much exactly what many veterans say about taking on assistants in the game. Kinda ironic.

Kinrany · 2019-11-22 19:14:04

DestinyCall wrote:

In real life or in the game?

It's the same skill!!

It absolutely doesn't matter whether it's the real world or a virtual world! The people you're trying to do something for you are real!

There are lots of variations. Local or remote, hired help or volunteers, long-term or short-term, large team or a single assistant, etc. Compared to all these dimensions, whether the work is being done in the real or in the virtual world is basically irrelevant.

Disclaimer: I'm not a manager, I don't have this skill, and I have bad social skills in general. So I may be underestimating how common this skill is, and I may be wrong about the differences between real world and virtual worlds. Take my words with a grain of salt, even though personally I'm very sure of everything I said above.

DestinyCall · 2019-11-22 19:29:48

I think you may have misunderstood my post. I completely agree with you. It is the same skill and people struggle with it, in game and in real life.

Kinrany · 2019-11-22 19:43:18

Sorry, I do understand that you agree. Just a pet peeve of mine: people tend to think of virtual worlds as if they were magical realms where 1+1 can be 3, and where nothing could possibly happen for real :)

pein · 2019-11-23 00:15:45

best jobs to sort to others:
cutting butt logs
chopping bushes (if you dig them out, happens more frequently now that they plant a lot), branches, stumps
cooking eggs
making stew
make fences

just set up the pre-requisites, then tell a kid to do it
you just gather more with cart and dump it in a spot that is not used

other can be telling kids to pick berries in bowls
plant pine or maple in a line
make a road

make a road from branches and other stuff to a swamp and tell kids to fill some buckets with water

send them to gather, some are just new, not retarded so they can find stuff
show it once then watch them do it just point with something like a skewer or shaft

eajorstad · 2019-11-23 02:25:55

pein wrote:

best jobs to sort to others:
cutting butt logs
chopping bushes (if you dig them out, happens more frequently now that they plant a lot), branches, stumps
cooking eggs
making stew
make fences
just set up the pre-requisites, then tell a kid to do it
you just gather more with cart and dump it in a spot that is not used
other can be telling kids to pick berries in bowls
plant pine or maple in a line
make a road
make a road from branches and other stuff to a swamp and tell kids to fill some buckets with water
send them to gather, some are just new, not retarded so they can find stuff
show it once then watch them do it just point with something like a skewer or shaft

Agreed. Thanks for coming up with the list - I'm bad at thinking on my feet during the game when trying to teach a new player

kaidu · 2019-11-24 15:37:15

Hi,
thanks for the answers.

I now playing for several days (woah, the game is soo addicting) and had many games which were fun and where I found people willing to explain some tasks. So, its not always as bad as in my first few rounds (where people answered the question "how can I help" with "go dying").

I still found, that in 75% of the games there is no communication at all. Sometimes this is really a problem. Once I spawned in a town with a dry well. Somebody was carrying water from another site to the town regularly, but he told nobody where the other well is. Obviously, after he died nobody could bring new water.

However, when I spawn in a town where nobody tells me anything, I now still can do some tasks like composting, farming, hunting rabbits and so on. If I dont know what to do, I just try to create my own clothes (they are always rare anyways).

Maybe the tutorial should cover some of these basic tasks, such that new player can directly help even in cases nobody is there to teach them.

Kinrany · 2019-11-24 20:01:14

I find communication in the game very draining. Doing anything at all requires tracking so many things that talking to other players is very distracting, and the constant context switching takes a lot of energy.

I wish it was more common for people to be literally unable to do anything in the game. Right now I usually only talk to babies while they're still useless: I use this time to show them around and suggest jobs that are being neglected.

Bremidon · 2019-11-24 21:04:41

Kinrany wrote:

...people tend to think of virtual worlds as if they were magical realms where 1+1 can be 3, ...

Well, 1+1 does equal 3, for big enough values of 1. (Brem consults IRL for BI stuff; this kind of thing comes up all the time)

But I'm just havíng a bit of fun. You're absolutely right that management skills are pretty much the same online and off.

For me personally, the basic, apply-anywhere rules for getting something done together with other people are:

1. Communicate clearly and as simply as possible
2. Give feedback
3. Be polite
4. Match tasks to skills

Last edited by Bremidon (2019-11-24 21:06:02)

Spoonwood · 2019-11-24 21:56:41

Kinrany wrote:

Sorry, I do understand that you agree. Just a pet peeve of mine: people tend to think of virtual worlds as if they were magical realms where 1+1 can be 3, and where nothing could possibly happen for real

In a post-apocalyptic world so many women going around doing tasks that require serious strength I don't find remotely plausible. The apocalypse changed men and women so that they were so equal in respects where they differ in reality? No way.

voy178 · 2019-11-24 22:31:32

Spoonwood wrote:

Kinrany wrote:
Sorry, I do understand that you agree. Just a pet peeve of mine: people tend to think of virtual worlds as if they were magical realms where 1+1 can be 3, and where nothing could possibly happen for real
In a post-apocalyptic world so many women going around doing tasks that require serious strength I don't find remotely plausible. The apocalypse changed men and women so that they were so equal in respects where they differ in reality? No way.

A strong woman is still stronger than a weak man. People seem to forget that these traits we attribute to biological sexes are 100% individual dependent as well.

The vast majority of tasks in-game can be performed equally well by both sexes.

Harmi · 2019-11-25 01:34:57

Tbh, as a new player, I've never understood why people seem to think that to survive in this game is hard. I've found it relatively easy to stay alive to that 60 years whenever I want to. You always find something from nature or the village to eat. So you can just literally run naked around and collect food and live "happily". Also, wild animals can be avoided easily by just standing on some items. So I learned I think in my second or 3th session, everything I need to know to survive 60 minutes in-game and be that naked barbarian in your village who is collecting stones or something similar dumb.

The problem for me is the "other things". In one world, progressing, and the "yum queue" or what you call it? So if I really wanna do something for the village or even get clothes, it's incredibly hard to figure out some very basic things. The steps needed to achieve basic things seem to make no sense. That's why I made yesterday that post where I am asking if the crafting recipes with at least icons and inventory could be improved. (Inventory, I believe would be easy to do, since inventory literally works in a similar way as if you had a 9 sprites personal land area "hidden" with you where you place your items. Part of it would be grayed if you didn't have a basket and backpack.)

People don't seem to love so much on teaching new players on stupid things such as "to make fire you need to find leaves" and then being forced to teach the tree type whose leaves only work with this etc. After reading these posts, I've become slightly worried if I could even ask them. (Why would you need the leaf to make fire anyways? Never needed that irl) But if that's what the game wants us to do, then I think the game should show it somehow. I think there are soon more new players than teachers when this game gets its next steam sale.

The teaching that has to be done to every player from parents could be done with some other cleverly designed game mechanic. The game could, for example, limit the abilities of kids so that the parent has to teach every kid. Not that the player doesn't understand how to play the game, but the game character doesn't. I think this wouldn't break the emotional chain in the game. In fact, it would make you love your mom probably even more if you every time had to learn everything from her and it was a game mechanic.

Let's say, if you need to learn to use an ax, the ax, for example, has to be given by some adult who knows how to use an ax. Maybe that adult would also need to show for the kid how to use it on something first. If no one like that is anywhere, you could learn it by yourself, but much more slowly. Or something similar. So in that way, you would know that you learned to use an ax or ride a horse because your mom or uncle taught it to you and your mom learned it from your grandma and she from someone else and Eve learned something very basic painfully slowly, etc.

That would make it interesting because in some future generations there wouldn't be any reason to teach your kids to for example to use that ax. So some "old" knowledge would become lost and then after the catastrophe, it would need to be reinvented, etc.

Last edited by Harmi (2019-11-25 02:05:37)

Keyin · 2019-11-25 01:52:21

Harmi wrote:

Tbh, as a new player, I've never understood why people seem to think that to survive in this game is hard. I've found it relatively easy to stay alive to that 60 years whenever I want to. You always find something from nature or the village to eat. So you can just literally run naked around and collect food and live "happily". Also, wild animals can be avoided easily by just standing on some items.

The hunger drain rate has been greatly reduced recently to allow players to cope with huge influx of new players.

Also, all food has been adjusted to give two additional hunger pips from before steampocalypse 2.0

The method of survival you describe was still possible under old conditions, but unless you had zoom mod it was difficult to pull off

Making fire is one of the few things the tutorial teaches you if I remember correctly.

Having to learn everything from a parent wasn't added because it would get very old/grindy/annoying after a few lives if I am remembering right

Last edited by Keyin (2019-11-25 01:56:13)

Harmi · 2019-11-25 01:59:25

Ah, now I understand the background for this better, thanks for clarifying.

Yes, I made the tutorial through and I think I also made a fire in there, but it still doesn't make sense and I am still struggling to do it since it's for me hard to remember if the steps don't make sense for me. I am literally thinking of how I would make fire if I was in a forest. And collecting leaves wouldn't be step 1. In fact, it wouldn't be a step at all.

Keyin · 2019-11-25 02:04:54

The leaf is necessary as a way to move the spark to the tinder. Sure, you could use other things I guess, but the leaf is used because they're plentiful/convenient and won't catch on fire from the spark due to being too moist.

Last edited by Keyin (2019-11-25 02:05:06)

Harmi · 2019-11-25 02:13:36

Why would you anyways move the spark somewhere? Shouldn't you have the tinder already there when you are using the stick to make it smoking from the friction between wood and stick? Then you move the smoking tinder to your campfire to make fire by blowing it.

You're maybe right that the learning queue would start being annoying if you have to repeat it every time you start the game. But I still think that some game mechanical principle would need to be invented to make the game understandable for new users.

Last edited by Harmi (2019-11-25 02:24:01)

Spoonwood · 2019-11-25 02:46:03

Keyin wrote:

Making fire is one of the few things the tutorial teaches you if I remember correctly.

There's now a room below where you start with kindling, a long straight shaft, a torch, hot coals, and a snakepit. It was possible to exit the tutorial using the same resources before, but they weren't organized like that and it involved more running around.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-11-25 02:47:08)

Kinrany · 2019-11-25 07:31:28

Harmi wrote:

The teaching that has to be done to every player from parents could be done with some other cleverly designed game mechanic. The game could, for example, limit the abilities of kids so that the parent has to teach every kid. Not that the player doesn't understand how to play the game, but the game character doesn't. I think this wouldn't break the emotional chain in the game. In fact, it would make you love your mom probably even more if you every time had to learn everything from her and it was a game mechanic.

Unfortunately the real players and their characters need to be taught different things. Players learn the main mechanics only once, and this doesn't depend on their character's age.

Kaveh · 2019-11-25 10:59:09

Omg imagine being a veteran player and not being able to do anything but listen to your mom rehash farming to you. You already have to wait 3 minutes before you get to play now (5% of your playtime in a full life), being unable to do anything after or maybe only if you mom tells you so would be horrendous. There are much much more efficient ways to use that time, both for the kid AND the mother.

And that doesn't even take into account that a baby could know much more than its mother. I've taught my mothers many times.

Harmi · 2019-11-25 13:09:58

Kaveh wrote:

Omg imagine being a veteran player and not being able to do anything but listen to your mom rehash farming to you. You already have to wait 3 minutes before you get to play now (5% of your playtime in a full life), being unable to do anything after or maybe only if you mom tells you so would be horrendous. There are much much more efficient ways to use that time, both for the kid AND the mother.
And that doesn't even take into account that a baby could know much more than its mother. I've taught my mothers many times.

No, that was not the game mechanical thing I was trying to explain. I was trying to show a way that the game would help you to save your time from doing things that seem to not make sense by making crafting mechanic, simpler to get, and then lead you to use that same time to interact with other players and make deeper relations with them.

It doesn't mean that building an efficiently working town would take any longer than now. The new system, however, would automatically lead you to do things together with other players. That would be the result of more explanating GUI.

And the "teaching" I am speaking about, necessarily doesn't mean that you would need to in chat explain how to use a hammer. The kid would "learn" it by for example these 2 steps

1. Seeing someone to use hammer correctly.
2. That person giving the hammer to the kid.
- Now the kid would be now fully aware of how to use it.
- Maybe you could even make a "classroom" and teach many kids simultaneously.
- In the best possible scenario, in an organized town, It would lead some player to learn all the possible skills available and then teach them to all of the new babies together.

So, if you teach your kids in that way, the town would flourish even if some players were new. But if you didn't teach -or your kids didn't wanna learn, the town would slowly start going down.

Now, with the current mechanism, the town will flourish if there are senior players and it will go down if someone bought the game from steam and joins your town. I think it's not a good way because of those reasons.

Even the grandmas last few minutes would be important if she could stay home and teach new kids before dying. She could teach some new babies to do some old skill and know that the baby knows it and then grandma would die out by knowing that there in the town still is someone who knows how to use some specific tool.

Last edited by Harmi (2019-11-25 13:40:48)

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