So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

DarkDrak · 2019-12-01 15:53:02

I've been trying some inter family trade the past few lives. To see if families can survive without merging. Between desert folks and jungle folks it kinda worked.
As a desert folk, I brought bowls of sulfur, took some rubber tires. or a bucket of latex and bowls of kernels.
As a jungle folk, I just came to a desert villege, filled their buckets with latex and bowls with kernels and took bowls of sulfur away with me.
Trade can work if you wanna do it. Would've loved to trade glassworth and sand for sugar canes, but alas, life's too short.

But how do you trade with tundra folks? If you go looking for them, chanses are that you need oil, right? But they never reach that kind of tecnology by the time you find them. The best you can do is to ask a young girl to follow you to your town, so they can build an oil pump there. Tradewise, that would be... trade rubber for a slave? Exept that at this point it's the equivalent of merging, since nobody's keeping track of who's a slave here.

And as a ginger what do you do? Seal skins are at least 3 times rarer than sulfur and half as useful. If you go get them, there wont even be enough for your own village. Are gingers expected to rush oil pumpjack before newcommen well and survive on nearby deep wells as they trade off oil?

So, how does a family survive while avoiding merging? I gave it a serious try, but...

Kaveh · 2019-12-01 16:26:10

Yeah, it was expected from the start that multi racial towns would be the ones to thrive. Trade doesn't really work imo, just charity. Nothing is ever gonna be equal in value. If you're ginger, find and help another town. Either go live there or bring them some stuff (depending on how advanced the town you live in is).

pein · 2019-12-01 17:00:59

it's either charity or theft.
best case you just scavenge what you need in dead towns. If you ever gonna make it back then you won't spend time on talking. If you got a horse then you bring stuff you can make and hope they need it, take what you want. It's more like creating extra resources all the time so you don't mind if others take some. Nothing changed.

Merging is ok but double merging is better, swap the hostages.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-01 17:30:49

I think knowing how to do an oil pumpjack also ends up rarer than knowing the rubber process. Doing an oil pumpjack isn't as complicated as making an engine, but probably, there exist more people how to make an engine than how to do an oil pumpjack. Additionally, the tarry spot must get found, or people in town have to identify that a path/road to a tarry spot exists. Maps could help later genertions with that.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-01 17:41:23

DarkDrak wrote:

But how do you trade with tundra folks? If you go looking for them, chanses are that you need oil, right? But they never reach that kind of tecnology by the time you find them.

Yea, well they can't even get started on doing oil until they find/take from browns AND blacks, since they need rubber for the newcomen multipurpose engine which requires latex (brown) and sulfur (black) to make. They also need rubber to get started on the process of making an oil pumpjack.

Gingers could trade gold (not so useful, at least not for a long time can a bell become useful) or saltwater so others can make sauerkraut. Or fish. Or shrimp. I would guess Gingers trading/gifting their unique foods or saltwater would make for their best shot. With some, though as you point out probably not all of them, having better clothing options, trading/gifting unique foods like that might not be too bad. But, I haven't been playing on bigserver2 with this unrealistic, stupid, and not fun race restrictions so I might not be a reliable source here either.

fug · 2019-12-01 18:24:50

As stated it's better to either steal stuff from one town or to give it freely rather than sit around trying to figure out an exchange. Better yet, if you find a town that's a different skin tone you might as well just move in and start doing what your race does best (since going back to the original town is mono race.)

Gingers can't get to oil by themselves so they might as well not even make towns when spawning as Eve. Best bet for them is to spawn in and just walk to the closest town in hopes of finding brown/black population as otherwise they'll be just sitting around praying to run into two different races vs tan/black which only needs to specifically find the other.

Trade update really just slowed the game down for the sake of people not bitching about how stale late game has been since forever. You can't have a stale late game if most towns can't reach it.

DarkDrak · 2019-12-01 18:27:54

So sad. I always longed to see trade becoming viable in OHOL. The closest we get is mutual charity work though.

voy178 · 2019-12-01 18:51:05

Unless Jason literally restricts items collected by a family from being used by others and trade will be made through some sort of trading interface, there will never be trading.

DestinyCall · 2019-12-01 21:41:09

Honestly .. does anyone WANT the game to be that gamey? I like how OHOL uses a very minimalist and simple way of interacting with the world and other people. I don't think I'd appreciate the addition of a "trade window" or any other fake way to force trade.

In fact, I really hate how artificial the biome specialization feels. It doesn't make it more fun or engaging for me to seek out other skintones to get rubber or salt. It just feels unnatural and restricting. It makes it harder to do things without making it feel more rewarding or interesting to accomplish them. The limited time you have in each life is already enough of a challenge. Adding the race restrictions and tool restrictions and everything else just removes options and makes each life feel a lot ... smaller.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-01 21:48:53

voy178 wrote:

Unless Jason literally restricts items collected by a family from being used by others and trade will be made through some sort of trading interface, there will never be trading.

I came up with an alternative scenario which might work:

Spoonwood wrote:

The apocalypse happened in such a way where some people had specialized knowledge survived. But, that knowledge was more about how well to do a particular task. For example, some Boots who survived the apocalypse had knowledge of *how to make* an object which some German who survived the apocalypse doesn't have. Such an object JUST improves the amount of resources that can get obtained from doing something. Like there's some object that Boots has knowledge to make which enables to get two tanks of kerosone from tarry spot instead of just one. That knowledge gets passed down through each generation also, even though Boots won't be applying that knowledge herself. People have changed such that they no longer can remember such pre-apoclyptic knowledge if they stand too far away from where some Boots, German, Bear, or Uno spawned (I don't quite like this... seems too silly even in a post-apocalyptic scenario, but it might limit multicultural settlements). Also, for some unknown reason when people pop into a post-apocalyptic world the first person would have knowledge on how to get more from a rubber tree, the second how to get more oil from a well, and so on.
Such a scenario would seem to enable modern people to still do things without being restricted by their race. It would involve more items appearing in the post-apocalyptic world. Those tools would increase efficiency of advanced tasks, so trading would be beneficial to such people. And multiple villages trading would be more useful than multiracial settlements, since people wandering away from where their primary ancestor when she survived the apocalypse would just make it less likely that the tools to increase efficiency could get made.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8439

tl;dr 1. Things would get changed so that special tools could get made to increase efficiency of advanced tasks like extracting oil. 2. Those tools could only get made within a certain radius of where Eve spawned. 3. Only members of the family would have access to making that tool, with a cyclic list of special tools (families 1-5 would have different tools that they could make, but 6 has the same tool making ability as 1, 7 as 2, and so on).

Also, there have existed reports of trading, but it seems more people have talked about multicultural villages than trading, and when trading has gotten reported someone said it inefficient. So, though what you say about trading doesn't seem literally true, you're still identifying a current problem.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-01 21:55:41

DestinyCall wrote:

Honestly .. does anyone WANT the game to be that gamey? I like how OHOL uses a very minimalist and simple way of interacting with the world and other people. I don't think I'd appreciate the addition of a "trade window" or any other fake way to force trade.
In fact, I really hate how artificial the biome specialization feels. It doesn't make it more fun or engaging for me to seek out other skintones to get rubber or salt. It just feels unnatural and restricting. It makes it harder to do things without making it feel more rewarding or interesting to accomplish them. The limited time you have in each life is already enough of a challenge. Adding the race restrictions and tool restrictions and everything else just removes options and makes each life feel a lot ... smaller.

You have a good point. Even if tool slots facilitate more group play and get newer players more help, they seem artificial. And the race restrictions are artificial and I would believe break the suspension of disbelief to anyone who thinks about. That said, families could have different abilities based on knowledge the Eve knew before the apocalypse, and such knowledge occur in her descendants representing oral tradition of the family. I don't feel that would be artificial.

Oh... and I really don't like it that I can't grow mango trees in my towns, nor sugar cane, nor rubber trees in my low pop server town in the swamp and grassland and I'll need to grow them in the jungle.

Yum is more useful than ever, since one probably wants a lot of yum to say hack up a swamp or kill sheep if making loom clothes. But, yum shrines only occurring in jungles with their temperature so terrible and the mosquitoes there doesn't seem consistent with yum being more useful since the introduction (and expansion) of hungry work.

Personally, I won't be touching bigserver2 or server1 with this race restriction nonsense in play. And yes, I mean it's nonsense. It doesn't make sense for a post-apocalyptic world, it got falsely promoted as about family specialization when it's about race, it's lead to debates about which race is the best, and it doesn't seem effective in that it's not encouraging trade to the point that Jason wanted trade to happen, it doesn't seem to satisfy the goals he wanted for it.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-12-01 21:58:58)

sigmen4020 · 2019-12-02 11:33:39

Tbh I'm actually beginning to warm up to the tool specialization at least. It has given me new experiences of actually having to need people's help rather than just being able to do everything on my own. Though I still can't say I'm motivated to try the oil game again. Been a while since I bothered making engines and oil rigs.

The family specialisation however is another story. It's supposed to force us to trade but it just doesn't work. The gingers being incapable of reaching oil, their biggest advantage, without the help of two other races is baffling. OP raises a very good point in that gingers can't really meaningfully exist on their own. They have nothing to meaningful to trade blacks/browns outside of kerosene, which they can't get on their own. Therefore it would be most advantagous for gingers to live alongside either black/brown or both.

This isn't even considering the fact that families start so far apart from each other that trade between towns basically become impossible.

DarkDrak · 2019-12-02 11:36:00

The problems here imo is that the trade shouldnt be something a family needs to survive. It should be something that makes their life easier, but manadgeble without. Also it's as imbalanced as it could possibly get, with 2 out of 4 of the races that just cant survive without merging.

Would've been much more obtainable by twisting the map so some some town locations are blessed with lots of rabbit holes but are very low on goodeponds. Or that they have abbundance of rocks but those locations are low on clay.

And the specialization problem would feel more balanced if a fam would be specialized in 2 biomes instead of 1. Thematically they're just intollerant to cold instead of being at ease only in dryness or in humidity. Visually, we could have blacks be born to gingers for example.

Welp. We'll get somewhere around there eventually.

sigmen4020 · 2019-12-02 11:47:31

DarkDrak wrote:

The problems here imo is that the trade shouldnt be something a family needs to survive. It should be something that makes their life easier, but manadgeble without. Also it's as imbalanced as it could possibly get, with 2 out of 4 of the races that just cant survive without merging.
Would've been much more obtainable by twisting the map so some some town locations are blessed with lots of rabbit holes but are very low on goodeponds. Or that they have abbundance of rocks but those locations are low on clay.
And the specialization problem would feel more balanced if a fam would be specialized in 2 biomes instead of 1. Thematically they're just intollerant to cold instead of being at ease only in dryness or in humidity. Visually, we could have blacks be born to gingers for example.
Welp. We'll get somewhere around there eventually.

Yep. Right now there is no reason for gingers and whites to establish their own town since they need help from both browns and blacks to get past deep well. Whites are pretty useless overall and gingers should just focus on finding a black/brown family to join forces with.

Gomez · 2019-12-03 02:06:18

Not sure why people have a problem with advanced cities required to be multi-cultural and centers for trade.

Tbh things just aren't always lying around to be stolen thats pretty shallow that's the take on it...or just scavenge. You've never come across a black dude planting gooseberry bushes and offered to finish his farm while he goes looking for a horse with the lasso you made? You can bet if I'm a ginger in need of latex I'm gonna bring a bucket and a knife in case I find a brown town that doesn't have a knife yet and doesn't have any rubber to just take. While I'm there I'll leave em a bucket of salt water or club a seal nearby just to be a bro and give something back.

smfh trade is exchange you don't necessarily need to be observed when trading long as leave something in place of what you have taken trade has taken place. You can come up with ways to avoid trading or screw over the village you rob its really up to you.

Last edited by Gomez (2019-12-03 02:14:54)

Spoonwood · 2019-12-03 02:20:47

Gomez wrote:

Not sure why people have a problem with advanced cities required to be multi-cultural and centers for trade.

If they're multi-racial towns are they trading? I would guess not. The overriding motivation of the race restrictions magic, as I understand it, was supposed to facilitate trade, not multiracial villages.

Gomez · 2019-12-03 02:46:55

Yes they are Spoon because the single race towns around the big city come there to trade. To expand on their own, hence the center of trade. As oil runs out we expand west and the outlier towns now become the new centers for trade and expansion.

One could also say *trade is a profession so if I'm a ginger in a multiracial town and someone says hey we need oil well I'm gonna perform my trade as a roughneck and trade labor occurs. So yeah trade still happens in the broad sense even if no exchange took place, once again hence CENTER FOR TRADE in the fullest sense of the term.

*trade - 2. a skilled job, typically one requiring manual skills and special training

Last edited by Gomez (2019-12-03 02:53:09)

Spoonwood · 2019-12-03 03:39:07

Thanks for the insight Gomez.

pein · 2019-12-03 05:03:04

That's still not trading.

The first bell town we got, people preemptively made an engine that they never used. I brought a disco girl, then another started the oil. So basically the gingers reaped the benefits of the others who built up that town. And quite funny that the Gardners were there for the longest time, enjoying the benefits while doing nothing to accomplish that state.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2019-12-01 15:53:02

So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#2 2019-12-01 16:26:10

Re: So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#3 2019-12-01 17:00:59

Re: So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#4 2019-12-01 17:30:49

Re: So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#5 2019-12-01 17:41:23

Re: So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#6 2019-12-01 18:24:50

Re: So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#7 2019-12-01 18:27:54

Re: So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#8 2019-12-01 18:51:05

Re: So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#9 2019-12-01 21:41:09

Re: So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#10 2019-12-01 21:48:53

Re: So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#11 2019-12-01 21:55:41

Re: So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#12 2019-12-02 11:33:39

Re: So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#13 2019-12-02 11:36:00

Re: So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#14 2019-12-02 11:47:31

Re: So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#15 2019-12-03 02:06:18

Re: So uhm, how do you trade for oil?

#16 2019-12-03 02:20:47

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#17 2019-12-03 02:46:55

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#18 2019-12-03 03:39:07

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#19 2019-12-03 05:03:04

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