Infinite map is so fun

pein · 2019-12-06 01:16:53

I liked to get back to the same spot in the rift, we are a bit far apart, not sure if those missing spots should be filled

the weakest spot of the game right now is transport and travel, there aren't too many options, and you even removed the horses for the most families
especially cars and planes are dead content with outdated reasons of their nerfs

and if resources were optimized for the rift, we got a very low amount of road materials, and we lack the minigame with them
it could be a good mechanic, fun and important to build roads, but ever since we had the flat rocks as a decoration item, then as gravestones, and later as road material, there was no chance on their amount
we would need way more of them to be able to build decent road structure
I tried, kinda 2,5 lives built a road of 250, and was like half of the required amount to connect some huge towns, wasn't worth it, not just cause of the wipe

asphalt and road roller machine wouldn't be bad technology, the manual work for those short roads is way too high even without the lack of resources doesn't really worth making them
by using cars only on roads but buffing their run time (distance-based usage, not time-based and some extra storage) would make them decently viable. logic would say that we could make a huge east-west road, but in reality, it seems way too much work.

also, you should check out the mail I sent and a few posts I had

1 family would have a map, the eve could choose a location and the map could re-centre around it, then receive bonuses based on their choices and upgrades. the travel location would be relative to it and a minimap could allow choosing other locations to go
this would swap out the time consuming and luck-based search to a cost-based search, it could still be a fog of war and a limit of distance, so exploring neighbours would be costly.
also, each family would be on a map, and the map would be active until the family lives, then the countdown to delete that map based on how long the family lived. if people want to revive it, they could do it for a few hours (maybe base 24 then the hours it lived). only the people who ever played there for at least 30-40 min. then if no one reviving it would be deleted. this would get rid of the bad camps and to be replaced with new active ones. so people would always be close but the travel would cost some effort (maybe tickets, some food, some special items to travel) plus coming back would cost some more. wouldn't eliminate the need for other families just make it a bit more sure if they can afford a few tries.

it's ok if it is hard, but there should always be a solution, that way should be hard, finding that solution, not like depending on things out of our control. Wrong skin colour? understandable suicide. No rubber? well, you cant make any. The essential upgrades shouldn't be race-based.

Kinrany · 2019-12-06 01:25:37

jasonrohrer wrote:

Did the prediction of "we'll all just live together in a melting-pot village" come to pass? No, it seems like it didn't.

That's because you only need each family once in the same village, no? As soon as a family unlocks its tech for the village, no one cares if they go extinct

I think when people say that two villages trade, they expect it to happen regularly, and not once per family.

Last edited by Kinrany (2019-12-06 01:26:46)

Spoonwood · 2019-12-06 04:11:57

pein wrote:

1 family would have a map, the eve could choose a location and the map could re-centre around it, then receive bonuses based on their choices and upgrades. the travel location would be relative to it and a minimap could allow choosing other locations to go
this would swap out the time consuming and luck-based search to a cost-based search, it could still be a fog of war and a limit of distance, so exploring neighbours would be costly.
also, each family would be on a map, and the map would be active until the family lives, then the countdown to delete that map based on how long the family lived. if people want to revive it, they could do it for a few hours (maybe base 24 then the hours it lived). only the people who ever played there for at least 30-40 min. then if no one reviving it would be deleted. this would get rid of the bad camps and to be replaced with new active ones. so people would always be close but the travel would cost some effort (maybe tickets, some food, some special items to travel) plus coming back would cost some more. wouldn't eliminate the need for other families just make it a bit more sure if they can afford a few tries.

I don't think that would work for servers consistently low pop.

fug · 2019-12-06 05:17:26

Spoonwood wrote:

pein wrote:
1 family would have a map, the eve could choose a location and the map could re-centre around it, then receive bonuses based on their choices and upgrades. the travel location would be relative to it and a minimap could allow choosing other locations to go
this would swap out the time consuming and luck-based search to a cost-based search, it could still be a fog of war and a limit of distance, so exploring neighbours would be costly.
also, each family would be on a map, and the map would be active until the family lives, then the countdown to delete that map based on how long the family lived. if people want to revive it, they could do it for a few hours (maybe base 24 then the hours it lived). only the people who ever played there for at least 30-40 min. then if no one reviving it would be deleted. this would get rid of the bad camps and to be replaced with new active ones. so people would always be close but the travel would cost some effort (maybe tickets, some food, some special items to travel) plus coming back would cost some more. wouldn't eliminate the need for other families just make it a bit more sure if they can afford a few tries.
I don't think that would work for servers consistently low pop.

>implying low pop matters for anything.

Main server working > nothing > low pop. If the game has to be balanced around low pop you guys might as well move to a private server.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-06 06:08:44

fug wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
pein wrote:
1 family would have a map, the eve could choose a location and the map could re-centre around it, then receive bonuses based on their choices and upgrades. the travel location would be relative to it and a minimap could allow choosing other locations to go
this would swap out the time consuming and luck-based search to a cost-based search, it could still be a fog of war and a limit of distance, so exploring neighbours would be costly.
also, each family would be on a map, and the map would be active until the family lives, then the countdown to delete that map based on how long the family lived. if people want to revive it, they could do it for a few hours (maybe base 24 then the hours it lived). only the people who ever played there for at least 30-40 min. then if no one reviving it would be deleted. this would get rid of the bad camps and to be replaced with new active ones. so people would always be close but the travel would cost some effort (maybe tickets, some food, some special items to travel) plus coming back would cost some more. wouldn't eliminate the need for other families just make it a bit more sure if they can afford a few tries.
I don't think that would work for servers consistently low pop.
>implying low pop matters for anything.
Main server working > nothing > low pop. If the game has to be balanced around low pop you guys might as well move to a private server.

It has to be balanced around low pop to some extent. BS2 is low pop during the initial moments of an update. That doesn't end up irrelevant to Pein's proposal, because the map would have to re-center around several Eves during an update period. Such a system might result in more lag, and who wants that?

Also, your ordering doesn't work. Low pop people still bought the game. I don't think Jason agrees with your ordering, since he allows for Eve-chaining when less than 4 fertile females on a server, and without that, servers 2-15 would more or less turn into little more than a perpetual "Eve Hell" similar to Donkey Town.

Pein's idea might work for a server having 15 people on it, if no lag issue caused by re-centering you say?

However, Pein talks about people reviving towns. Does that mean people getting born into a dead town as an Eve when they could have been someone else's baby? But that would mean less parenting potentially, so I doubt that fits with Jason's concepts.

And no doubt Pein is now drunk since I've said 'parenting' and 'civilization building' and 'civilization maintainence' several times in this thread. But hey, I'm not buying him booze.

DestinyCall · 2019-12-06 06:13:27

To be fair, Jason already turns off a lot of "features" on low-pop servers to make them more livable.

In a perfect world, he'd make a true solo-play option for the game, so people who want to play alone or with invited friends could do so without needing to deal with a bunch of mechanics that don't work without other people. Making it an official part of the game would also help remind him that those kind of players exist, so they don't get wrecked by multiplayer-only changes. Having a bunch of empty servers works too, I guess, but isn't really the ideal solution, in my opinion. I mean .. what if we suddenly got a lot more players and people actually started playing on those servers?

Last edited by DestinyCall (2019-12-06 06:14:57)

jcwilk · 2019-12-06 06:18:42

DestinyCall wrote:

To be fair, Jason already turns off a lot of "features" on low-pop servers to make them more livable.
In a perfect world, he'd make a true solo-play option for the game, so people who want to play alone or with invited friends could do so without needing to deal with a bunch of mechanics that don't work without other people. Making it an official part of the game would also help remind him that those kind of players exist, so they don't get wrecked by multiplayer-only changes. Having a bunch of empty servers works too, I guess, but isn't really the ideal solution, in my opinion. I mean .. what if we suddenly got a lot more players and people actually started playing on those servers?

Yeah but making it a bit complicated and non obvious about how to switch servers and run your own server etc means more people sort of by default fall into participating on the main server which means there's less painful low pop situations. Maybe it's possible that having a single player option could keep them interested longer and ultimately play on the server more in the end but that doesn't seem to be a given.

Dodge · 2019-12-06 07:08:04

If you want to keep infinite map that's fine but:

1. Fix Eve spawning

2. Instant bell tower

So ginger town can serve as trading point

Or some other way to find villages but right now it's just not viable

I was born to a travelling mother, a bell rung, it was 8k far away...

How much spread out are those towns?

edit: boring is not a good "challenge" btw, it's suposed to be a game about interaction between players... trading, private property, hierarchy, social constructs, culture etc...

Last edited by Dodge (2019-12-06 07:20:52)

sigmen4020 · 2019-12-06 07:32:56

Dodge wrote:

2. Instant bell tower

A bell tower is pretty expensive to begin with and as of the family specialization update, can only be gotten by gingers. I don't see a problem with having instant bell towers.

Seems really arbitrary to me to keep tech only accessable to one race take 25 hours to complete. It will also make gingers more suitable as town starters, since they could potentially gather blacks and browns easier than any other race.

The gingers will bring us together.

DestinyCall · 2019-12-06 08:28:09

jcwilk wrote:

Yeah but making it a bit complicated and non obvious about how to switch servers and run your own server etc means more people sort of by default fall into participating on the main server which means there's less painful low pop situations. Maybe it's possible that having a single player option could keep them interested longer and ultimately play on the server more in the end but that doesn't seem to be a given.

I think we lose a lot of players because they don't have an accessible single player option. Not everyone is okay with the stress and steep learning curve involved with trying to play in a chaotic OHOL village as a new player. They would like to play the game, but can't survive long enough to do anything interesting, so they quit. I can't speak for everyone, but I came very close to giving up on this game several times when I was just starting out. Installing zoom mode and figuring out how to connect to custom servers was a big part of why I stayed. But if I was a little less tech-capable, I couldn't have managed it on my own and I would have left.

Playing solo is not the same experience as playing on the big server. It is less exciting in some ways, but more satisfying in other ways. You can build without interruption and work on large or complex projects more easily. It gets lonely, but it is also very relaxing. For some people, it is a much better experience overall. For others, it would be painfully dull. But giving people the option would not hurt the game. It encourages more people to play OHOL and experience what it has to offer. And having a single-player option would let new players experiment with crafting in a safe environment or play together with their friends, like on a private minecraft server.

Greenwood · 2019-12-06 09:17:43

Having a challenge to survive is what makes the game fun, but if the way that almost every family dies out is due to water shortage and lack of rubber, civilisation building might become increasingly predictable. But waystones and maps give players the tools to become more connected over time. Why not simply nerf the family speciality aspect so that single-race families can still survive (but perhaps not survive so easily), and then create some alternative, more player-driven way in which civilisations could die? If families are better connected, there is an increased risk of war. Perhaps changing the eve spawn so that families spawned regularly closer together would mean that the doom of a civilisation would be more varied, and less predictable.

sigmen4020 · 2019-12-06 09:48:56

Greenwood wrote:

Having a challenge to survive is what makes the game fun, but if the way that almost every family dies out is due to water shortage and lack of rubber, civilisation building might become increasingly predictable. But waystones and maps give players the tools to become more connected over time. Why not simply nerf the family speciality aspect so that single-race families can still survive (but perhaps not survive so easily), and then create some alternative, more player-driven way in which civilisations could die? If families are better connected, there is an increased risk of war. Perhaps changing the eve spawn so that families spawned regularly closer together would mean that the doom of a civilisation would be more varied, and less predictable.

Or better yet, give all races different means to advance the tech tree. That could make life feel different every time and also make trade something you can do without basically forcing you to meet other races to advance.

One of my biggest problems with family specialty is that even tho all races have different things they can get, they are still forced to advance the same linear tech tree, where some families have clear advantages over others. They just need other family's help to do it now.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-06 10:29:54

DestinyCall wrote:

To be fair, Jason already turns off a lot of "features" on low-pop servers to make them more livable.
In a perfect world, he'd make a true solo-play option for the game, so people who want to play alone or with invited friends could do so without needing to deal with a bunch of mechanics that don't work without other people. Making it an official part of the game would also help remind him that those kind of players exist, so they don't get wrecked by multiplayer-only changes. Having a bunch of empty servers works too, I guess, but isn't really the ideal solution, in my opinion. I mean .. what if we suddenly got a lot more players and people actually started playing on those servers?

Personally, I don't see why I would mind if low pop servers had an influx of players due to more players playing overall if it didn't trigger something like the race restrictions. I like playing with random people, and thus haven't ever sought to play on a private server (even after the infamous Jason wipe in May). I don't exactly want to play by myself. I prefer to play with small groups of people. Sometimes people on low pops don't keep children, other times they are more than happy to have help/companionship. I am assuming that those people wouldn't be griefers in almost all cases though.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-06 10:34:30

sigmen4020 wrote:

Dodge wrote:
2. Instant bell tower
A bell tower is pretty expensive to begin with and as of the family specialization update, can only be gotten by gingers. I don't see a problem with having instant bell towers.

Blacks can also, without outside help, forge gold using alum, niter, paper, sulfur, malachite for copper foil, and electrum. It's a byproduct of making silver nitrate solution and came along the camera update: https://onetech.info/3014-Bowl-of-Silve … ion/recipe

sigmen4020 · 2019-12-06 10:44:23

Spoonwood wrote:

sigmen4020 wrote:
Dodge wrote:
2. Instant bell tower
A bell tower is pretty expensive to begin with and as of the family specialization update, can only be gotten by gingers. I don't see a problem with having instant bell towers.
Blacks can also, without outside help, forge gold using alum, niter, paper, sulfur, malachite for copper foil, and electrum. It's a byproduct of making silver nitrate solution and came along the camera update: https://onetech.info/3014-Bowl-of-Silve … ion/recipe

Oh yeah forgot about that.

Gingers and blacks will unite us.

Punkypal · 2019-12-06 16:03:57

Jason, despite whatever your data might say, the player, not being able to see any of that, does not know where to look and the world feels vastly empty. I have ran eastward towards a ringing bell along a ley line for 45 minutes nonstop and not seen one sign of life along the way. No dropped basket, no corpse, and certainly no towns or waystones. And this has happened more than once. The world feels empty.

You say a town isn't supposed to last forever but "forever" feels like only a week. If any "town" lasts more than 24 hours it's a rare miracle. I don't mind a town eventually running out of resources and dying, but we haven't even come close to that happening. No town has stripped all the iron, or stones or trees or goose ponds or anything else around it entirely. They run out of water and can't get rubber because they don't have the right two families which can happen at any point in time due to bad luck, one greifer, or low server population. That's the only resource that seems to matter and is making it impossible to keep our towns alive. Water. Are we trying to simulate the world or just Ethiopia during a major drought? We have no rivers or streams, just wells that run out of water almost instantly and goose mud puddles that only contain about 10 bowls of water, and if you take that water out it practically never comes back because apparently it never rains in this world either.

We've been thinking only certain biomes are desert. IT'S ALL DESERT! Welcome to the post apocalyptic outback Max.

Last edited by Punkypal (2019-12-06 16:04:41)

pein · 2019-12-06 16:06:08

No, it has to be balanced around any population.
Right now one of the biggest issue is bad camps. The eves and pseudo eves who spread then die out. I'm sure even veterans live a whole life inside 50x50 from time to time, others every time. So the distance is mainly a problem cause the litter we leave behind. I am okay with small camps, but there are places that don't really deserve to be kept up. Decay is a solution but it should be slower for good cities and faster for bad ones, and those spots reset and replaced so we are always close and all the camps which are important to us can be developed, discard the rest.

we can't be too close and can't be too far, that's why the minimap would be the best, it doesn't matter your city location until you get to a decent level, and afterwards, you should always have options. If you take a spot on the minimap, you could find other, be found, and each map could be different and important, huge, but limited from the centre to outside, you could go out and gather but the centre of it would be the main hub.
There is still a bit of luck and skill involved to explore the other maps from your perspective.

We don't need hardcoded limits, we need good numbers. If you keep each family per one map, you can control the population on each to like 10-15. We need some changes to make the population and workers more important than resources. Then we could have population limits to unlock to raise it. Start off with 5 people, make a tent or something, increase the cap with 5.

Travel is not an interesting feature right now, cause it's time and luck-based not cost or skill-based.

DestinyCall · 2019-12-06 17:09:07

pein wrote:

No, it has to be balanced around any population.
Right now one of the biggest issue is bad camps. The eves and pseudo eves who spread then die out. I'm sure even veterans live a whole life inside 50x50 from time to time, others every time. So the distance is mainly a problem cause the litter we leave behind. I am okay with small camps, but there are places that don't really deserve to be kept up. Decay is a solution but it should be slower for good cities and faster for bad ones, and those spots reset and replaced so we are always close and all the camps which are important to us can be developed, discard the rest.
we can't be too close and can't be too far, that's why the minimap would be the best, it doesn't matter your city location until you get to a decent level, and afterwards, you should always have options. If you take a spot on the minimap, you could find other, be found, and each map could be different and important, huge, but limited from the centre to outside, you could go out and gather but the centre of it would be the main hub.
There is still a bit of luck and skill involved to explore the other maps from your perspective.
We don't need hardcoded limits, we need good numbers. If you keep each family per one map, you can control the population on each to like 10-15. We need some changes to make the population and workers more important than resources. Then we could have population limits to unlock to raise it. Start off with 5 people, make a tent or something, increase the cap with 5.
Travel is not an interesting feature right now, cause it's time and luck-based not cost or skill-based.

One idea I had while we were in the Rift was the idea of an "infinite rift". Instead of one box that could never be escaped, the map would be divided up into a gridwork. Each rift box would be 500x500 or 250x250. Big enough to contain plenty of resources and multiple viable village locations, but small enough to be fully explore in a single lifetime by a dedicated explorer. Each box starts off empty and spawns a single Eve. If the Eve dies or her family dies out completely and the box is empty of people, that rift will reset and allow a new Eve to spawn into that location. If she lives and her family survives, then they will eventually need to leave the box to gather more resources. Eves will always spawn in adjacent rifts, so most of the boxes around your box will always have other families at some level of development. If you are on the edge of the cluster, you might only have a living family on one side, but there should always be at least one active "neighbor".

The "rift walls" could be the bottomless chasm from the rift or it could be visually represented by mountains or rivers. It doesn't need to be a perfectly square box - you could make it look a little more "natural" if that is desirable. Let's assume it is the bottomless chasm. How do you get out of the box? There could be several ways this could work, but I'd like to see you have a couple of options. The first would be rising up the tech tree until you get to plane tech. You could fly across the gap using an airplane. This would give a purpose to reaching end-game tech, since it allows greater mobility. Alternatively, you could build a suspension bridge across the rift. This is where it becomes important to have active neighbors. The bridge would be built in three parts. First, you must build a bridge support on your side of the rift. Then someone on the OTHER side must build a matching support structure on their side of the gap. Finally, the central portion of the bridge can be constructed from either side. This would allow you to cross the gap without an airplane and create a semi-permanent path across the rift. Since you need the assistance of someone on the other side, you'd have to make contact with other people in the adjacent rift or find a half-built bridge to complete or send some of your people across the gap in an airplane. Bridges and bridge supports could also be deconstructed (hungry work) using an axe to remove the middle section and a pickaxe to remove the bridge support.

Ideally, I'd like every family to be able to reach end tech within their own rift. I'm not a fan of the current limitations imposed by the family specializations. It is too restricting and not very fun. Your family could focus on building up their village until resources within your little rift are starting to become strained. Then you would need to push toward end-game tech so you can afford to send out airplanes into the adjacent rifts. Without a viable landing site, they would crashland in the closest adjacent rift located in the direction that they fly. After crashing, they would need to establish a new camp and pseudo-Eve long enough to get the necessary tools to construct a bridge support on the other side of the gap. You would want to send a young girl as your bush pilot, because she might land far away from the wall and it might take a while to establish the camp. If she gets too old before she has the necessary tools ready, the task would need to be passed on to her children, so it is not forgotten. The neighboring rift might be empty and untouched, full of rich natural resources, ripe for harvest .. or it might already be occupied by another family. If it is occupied, you might be able to establish trade or exchange people/goods or maybe you would fight for control of the new land.

Whenever a rift becomes completely empty of people for a long enough period of time, it will reset back to virgin wilderness. This would allow players to have access to untouched land by using planes while also letting them have close access to other villages using bridges (or planes). You could build roads from your village to the bridge, if you wanted to connect to another village for trading. Or you could establish and maintain airports to allow plane travel back and forth. Early camps would rarely encounter outsiders, because each Eves would be separated by distance and the rift itself. But you might find your village visited by an advanced neighboring village at any time as they push out to explore more land.

The key features of this system would be that it allows the land to "renew" itself by resetting abandoned rifts and allowing Eves to respawn within them. At the same time, it allows an established town to stay alive and continue to thrive, as long as people are willing to keep it going. Your family can continue to grow and spread beyond the boundaries of your home rift. The rift edge is a "soft boundary" rather than a prison.

Gogo · 2019-12-06 17:22:45

Well, family is doomed if they aren't gingers and don't build a bell.

I lived a life where there are none towns along the road to bell (and I spend my whole life on that ride..).

And today I live a life where there was like 7 towns not far away, but all dead from no rubber.

There are gingers and browns pretty near, but can't find themselves. Even with way stones. IT STILL sucks and we still can't find others becuz it shows us only where is town, not where are people.

Today I lived once as explorer and found no ones (only another family with same skin lol). And I also live as ginger and I said to everyone WAIT FOR THE BELL and let them come here.

Last edited by Gogo (2019-12-06 17:23:22)

Spoonwood · 2019-12-06 18:01:47

pein wrote:

No, it has to be balanced around any population.

I agree.

I also agree that travel is seriously lacking right now.

Spoonwood · 2019-12-06 18:08:39

DestinyCall wrote:

If the Eve dies or her family dies out completely and the box is empty of people, that rift will reset and allow a new Eve to spawn into that location.

That would turn servers 2-15 into little more than perpetual Eve camps. Climbing the entire tech on those servers would not be possible. I mean, I am assuming that Jason would have basically the same code for all of the servers sans the protection against wipes, as I think is the only difference between any servers at this point in time (and the population maximum), since he's consistently had the same code for them all.

DestinyCall · 2019-12-06 18:24:41

I'm talking about solutions for the big server. Low population servers will always have different needs and require special exceptions.

pein · 2019-12-06 19:05:46

I mean there are other concepts but would sound like fantasy

like spaceships or tectonic plates moving around when families got more point or population so higher-level cities would be on centre

in fact it doesn't even matter where you are on map until you reach a certain level, like deep wells, then it could choose your location on map

it can be a rift for each family or a sector or whatever, I think soft caps like a town centre then a territory around it would be fine, then you could get outside for resources, it would limit you anyway after the distance is high enough, the travel would be from centre not from sides

Punkypal · 2019-12-06 19:14:33

After 48 hours of not playing the game, this was my thrilling first life.

I'm born in a small village. They have virtually nothing but are already have well requiring newcom tech to get water. Only two people in "town" besides me. Not enough to maintain town and operate that tech without it being a huge un-fun hassle. No sheep pen (Think there was once, but got torn down or fell down). Only two buildings. No roads, no organized farm. Small berry patch is half dead. No food stockpile. A few tools and a small smithing area. That's it. This town has got to be no more than 24 hours old. Already practically dead.

Problem: Actually advancing and maintaining a town is too hard to do because something as simple as getting water is the hardest thing to keep going. Treading water (no pun intended) is the best most towns can hope for.

Anyway, I decide to go to work trying to get the place back in order. Before long I have a baby. This player immediately (one letter at a time) starts calling me a bitch and puts on an "evil face". I decide this town of three players can't afford what clearly is a greifer, so I try to dump baby in the woods to die. Baby runs back to town. I say, "DONT FEED. THIS IS A GRIEFER" of the two players in town, one feeds the baby anyway. As soon as baby is 3yo the person who fed the baby picks up a bow and starts trying to kill me, never saying anything. Just attempts to murder me. This goes on for about 5 minutes of me running around serpentine pattern until the player with the bow and arrow starves to death. So I grab the bow and go back to town. That was the ONLY weapon the town had. No other arrows, no knives. I see my greifer daughter standing there naked still doing nothing. I ask her to explain herself. She calls me a bitch again. I was about to shoot her when I have another baby. I can't pick up the baby because if I drop the bow, I can guess what the greifer will do with the town's only weapon. I say, 'FEED THE BABY" The greifer says "LOL" - The one other idiot in town doesn't know how to feed a baby. The baby starves. Greifer says, "IM GONNA KILL MYSELF" and then starves. I don't even have to shoot them. They new the game was up and they were off to greif elsewhere.

Problem: Ruining others play experience is still the most popular profession in this game. There is no real discouragement to greifing. But the bigger problem is there is not enough reward for doing something other than greifing. (See, water is a major struggle mentioned above). When you are born into a town that seems to have no hope, why not just try to ruin it all?

Also, kudos to the brilliant person who instead of talking or asking any questions decided to murder the town's only fertile female. If your goal was to keep the town alive, that was a super smart way to go about it!

Anyway, after all this and being the only female in a town at age 37, I decided to forget it and head to the bell that rang. Its 2170 away and I know I can get there before I die. I want to see if it's a new town or if the one from 48 hours ago is still alive. I run towards the town for 15 years (along the way I had two kids, twins, who were one person playing two accounts. Once they got too 5yo I left them my backpack and clothes and ran on. Later I found they they both died back to back 7 years later.)

Problem: Something about this game is way too complex for most players. In a virgin wilderness, abundant with berry bushes and wild onions, not to mention all the food you can dig up, many players simply can not survive.

I don't even know how to fix this. Is no one watching the tutorial? Maybe if you keep starving to death you have to complete the tutorial again before you can log into an actual life? IDK. Anyway, I kept on and finally made it to the Bell City. Along the entire trip I never saw one sign of life except one bowler hat left about 200 spaces outside of where I started. over 2k of distance and nothing.

Problem: Players are way to spaced out.

Not enough resources to even make roads to cover that distance, and why bother? With so little in between there aren't even pit stops along they way to make it more worthwhile. Besides, if you tried to build a road, the towns will be long dead before you could even get the road half finished. I know, I've been trying. Anyway, I see this Bell City is now a new town. No bell ever rights from anywhere else, so I presume the old city, which itself was maybe only 7 day old is now abandoned and dead. This new Bell Town looks only 3 days old at best. I'm sure it will be abandoned in a few days.

Problem: An "Old" city should not be measured in days. I know 7 days is supposed to be like 10,000 years. And there aren't really any modern day cities that are that old, but then again, it doesn't take someone 10 years of their life to make one piece of paper either. so that isn't very realistic.

The last thing I'll mention is I see no families from 48 hours ago are still around. Not only that but the oldest family is only around 20 generations, so the oldest family isn't even a day old. This is very depressing.

Problem: Why should a player care about family lines? They don't survive. If a player does care about trying to keep a family alive, they are going to get turned off because it doesn't seem like it can be done.

You have no control of if you come back to the same family. I've read that an Eve that makes to to 60yo can come back to same clan ONCE in next life but I've never seen it happen to me, after being an Eve that made it to 60yo at least 6 times now. I personally don't like getting bounced all over the world to all different families where each time I have to endure a new learning curve of what they need, and how it's set up, etc. I think most people don't like this either. I'll sometimes have 5 or more babies do SID in a row almost instantly. Why? I assume they are trying to get back to the town they were in before so they can continue what they were working on. As it is, if you're female you spend half your life birthing other players and keeping them alive. You have hardly any time to do anything, and it's frustrating as hell to not be able to keep doing it.

Hey, if people like a completely fresh start and a new place every life, great. But maybe there should be an options in the settings. Either 1) try to birth me as close to my prior life death coords as possible, or 2) make my rebirth completely random. That way we won't be bleeding players who are tired of feeling like they never get anywhere in this game and you're just a hamster on a wheel.

And seriously. If towns don't start lasting longer than a week, I don't think I'll last longer than a week. Seriously, it's becoming tedious as fuck to keep building towns to just see them fall down and get abandoned before anything is accomplished.

Punkypal · 2019-12-06 19:41:45

Part of the major problems with cities dying is that it seems life actually gets HARDER as the city gets bigger. It's more effort to get water. Its more work to get rope because all wild milkweed is gone, and it takes more soil to grow milkweed anyway, already making it a difficult crop. It's more work to get food. More difficult to get resources. Nothing gets easier really. I've almost starved in a big town. That's never happened out in the wilderness. It takes everyone more time to keep the basics running. There isn't enough time for enough people to make roads, or place waystones, or be a nurse or guard full time, or even pick up things that get dropped everywhere in a disorganized mess, much less bring back things lost out in the wilderness from people who just died in the middle of nowhere instead of bringing their items they were using back into town. The catch 22 is that a big town is needed to be able to do certain things, but what's the point if there just isn't time to do those things? Food bar needs to not go down so fast. Berry bushes need to be able to last longer without needing more water. An oven or a forge needs to burn a little more. Things like this. Things take two to three minutes of effort to make them operate for 15 seconds. It feels like so much grinding but there is never the payoff of being a "leet" character. You grind for 60 minutes and then die, and are completely reset, and the town you grinded on to build will be dead and gone in less than a week anyway. I don't see how you keep a game going that's always player grinding and never any payoff for it. It's all stick and no carrot.

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