Road Helpers Wanted!

pein · 2020-02-03 10:34:38

diagonal roads are also straight and they are the same distance, they appear to be longer due to the fact that we got a tile-based map. Diagonals are 1.4 longer than edges so they appear longer

honestly, we should just make a long straight road somewhere on middle, which is generally -200 -400 then connect all cities to it, and not even stone roads, just pine since no guarantee it ever is finished. There are a lot of pine trees along badlands and some green biomes, and you can make a straight road fast out of it. If you would just drop a few fast road pieces, it won't give speed anyway.

The roads straight from bell town to other bells were nice, I could auto path in 7-8 minutes what was like a 20-minute walk.

StrongForce · 2020-02-03 11:42:37

A town is only dead if noone gets there and makes it home. That's what roads are for.
There are many advanced dead tows that only need a road system.

Straight road are better on bs2 on low pop the direct way is better imo since you don't have to keep up with the eve front

Gogo · 2020-02-03 18:40:57

When you're in town every road that goes straight N/S/W/E seems like main roads.

DestinyCall wrote:

And you can always lay out some extra stakes if you need to point people in the proper direction.

My idea was horrible. Still, when I think about it seems strange we can't use stick on ground to leave some info.

Last edited by Gogo (2020-02-03 18:41:15)

StrongForce · 2020-02-03 19:43:18

You can make an arrow with items

Punkypal · 2020-02-03 19:50:20

StrongForce wrote:

Straight road are better on bs2 on low pop the direct way is better imo since you don't have to keep up with the eve front

Exactly. My case is largely dependent on Jason's design mechanic. If he had Eve's expanding outward in all directions, then a main East/West road likely would have no advantages.

Punkypal · 2020-02-03 20:19:03

Spoonwood wrote:

Punkypal wrote:
With such a town layout you have essentially left B and D towns unconnected
In essence, they are connected.
Punkypal wrote:
Players would just run direct, rather than take the long, long route.
By no means do you know what every player will do.
Punkypal wrote:
With limited tool slots doing this pretty much takes up an entire life.
Huh? You just talked about running around. Running around doesn't require any tool slots.
Punkypal wrote:
In one full life I could have just laid a complete branch road of about 150 tiles. If that isn't enough to complete fully connected then with light spacing someone WILL complete it if that town is active.
There's no movement speed bonus from the light spacing. And why are you using flatties anyways if it's just suppose to be a connective path? Just use branches, flint chips, and all the other materials lying around.
Punkypal wrote:
People don't naturally help on a snake road, It isn't clear where it's going or what the plan is. Others will generally leave it alone and not help.
Pretty sure that ollj would say otherwise here.
Punkypal wrote:
The longer a continuous flat road is the more players feel a desire to work on it.
So now it's about having a longer road, instead of connecting towns? That doesn't sound consistent.
Punkypal wrote:
I simply could not achieve this with a zig zag snake highway.
I don't think you know any such thing. You don't speak the same natural language as some others who play. And you simply don't know what the next batch of new players will be like.

Based on many of your responses, I begin to wonder if English maybe ins't your native language? Or you really are actually dense. Just a quick reply. Yes, people will take a most direct almost every time if given two options. It's the way humans work. This is proven from countless behavioral science studies. It's known facts. -- It takes tool slots to make waystones. If you use up slots on that, then you can't use axes/shovels + stakes.... oh my bad, I forgot, you don't care if your roads look like a drunken wino made them. You don't ever clear an obstacle. -- I have proven that when a broken path of flat stones is set in place, townsfolk WILL complete the spaces is short order and then you have a complete road. Laying branches or other garbage in a line never results in a finished road. -- Ollj hardly plays, and I never caught him helping on any rando roads. He didn't even help much on the main road, preferring to make his own little detours and side paths to nowhere. The fact that one player still liked to do his own thing does not disprove the dozens that do help on a flat and straight road. -- If a flat road has a need to be long because the towns to be connected are far apart, then a snakelike road would have to be long too. I'm saying that as the need for a longer road happens, the easier it is to get people to help on it because it becomes a major landmark that attracts people. A winding road will never ever stand out the same way. -- Lastly, the proof is in the pudding. I will leave 400-500 tiles of broken road, and come back half a day later and someone or someones will have completed that. Meanwhile as I run from where I am born back to the job site I will pass the same winding roads in nowhere that remain unchanged and unfinished for a week. But you are right, the "Next batch" of players might all be a bunch of Spoonwoods that just arrived on Earth recently and don't behave as normal humans do. There is a statistical possibility of that happening, as extremely unlikely as that might be. If you knew anything about statistical modeling you'd know that could be safely eliminated as a possibility, but it seem you don't so there we are.

Spoonwood · 2020-02-03 21:24:52

Punkypal wrote:

A winding road will never ever stand out the same way. -- Lastly, the proof is in the pudding. I will leave 400-500 tiles of broken road, and come back half a day later and someone or someones will have completed that.

That doesn't prove causality. It's just a statement one event coming after another. Also, since there's only 4 families at a time, it's likely that others would complete any unfinished roads now.

Punkypal wrote:

There is a statistical possibility of that happening, as extremely unlikely as that might be. If you knew anything about statistical modeling you'd know that could be safely eliminated as a possibility, but it seem you don't so there we are.

Your two statements contradict each other. The latter one is the false one. You can't *logically* eliminate something as a possibility, just because you believe something to have a statistically low probability. Also, statistical modeling, so what? You don't seem to understand possibility and probability. And there's a different measure theory for possibility theory than probability theory.

Additionally, you resorted to ad hominem attacks with what you started with. But, whatever I am personally, and I won't be answering your questions as I don't view them as relevant, is irrelevant. Your position either falls or stands with how things work. And so does mine. If you had a good respect for figuring things out as they are, regardless of whether my claims have been correct, then you would just ignore things like that and try to stay focused on the issues. As Pein pointed out, diagonal roads don't require extra time to travel.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-02-03 23:17:22)

Kinrany · 2020-02-03 21:53:27

Spoonwood wrote:

You can't eliminate something as a possibility, just because you believe something to have a statistically low probability.

Sure you can, that's how all the modern cryptography works

Spoonwood · 2020-02-03 23:17:40

I edited my previous comment. Kinrany did not misquote what I had up there before.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-02-03 23:18:34)

voy178 · 2020-02-04 14:14:26

Someone is building an Endtower in the North East in a Jungle plot. Halfway through. Thought you might want to know before you continue to build roads.

In the town that has two belltowers in the northwest you have to go 1400 North and 3100 East, should you want to end it. He's got one door, and the rest is stonewalls so I suggest locking and hiding the key somewhere far.

Last edited by voy178 (2020-02-04 14:48:22)

DestinyCall · 2020-02-04 14:36:44

Or lock the door and wall it off with stone and property fencing. Better safe than sorry.

Punkypal · 2020-02-04 21:39:14

voy178 wrote:

Someone is building an Endtower in the North East in a Jungle plot. Halfway through. Thought you might want to know before you continue to build roads.
In the town that has two belltowers in the northwest you have to go 1400 North and 3100 East, should you want to end it. He's got one door, and the rest is stonewalls so I suggest locking and hiding the key somewhere far.

Can you look on Wondible's map and post the rough coords? https://onemap.wondible.com/

voy178 · 2020-02-05 12:59:58

Might be easier to have Endtowers end up on the map when they give notifications in-game. Can that be done?

pein · 2020-02-06 01:57:20

I mean, there are two possibilities: people go out on roads or come back.

Since we got the spawn algorithm slightly SW-NE direction and new towns on left, old towns won't change, people who run to the bell will mostly run straight sideways to it. The actual best way to run is to go SE for a bit, then go NE, to find other towns, maybe you get clothes or a horse.

I seen most people want to go back to old towns over and over even if it's less viable than the new ones. Oil gets consumed and carry it all the way back is harder. New towns get scavenged between each other and all horses get stolen.

Kinda hard to carry a map from low tech to high tech, easier to get a map from bell town to new cities.

Maps help a lot, when I made a waystone both direction and left a not to "continue this road north", we got a few roads made.

We still got lots of parallel roads, which are kinda waste of time and resources, so any type of signs that point to other towns is nice.

We can always check the bell town absolute coordinates, and start the road at 0 y or -200 y, that would be way better.

Spoonwood · 2020-02-06 05:19:18

pein wrote:

Maps help a lot, when I made a waystone both direction and left a not to "continue this road north", we got a few roads made.
We still got lots of parallel roads, which are kinda waste of time and resources, so any type of signs that point to other towns is nice.

So is your advice maps before road building?

When I've done road building since maps, and I've had a map (not on bs2), I usually would carry the map with me while laying out flat rocks, then I'd leave the map at the end of the flat rock path. No idea if such makes any sort of sense in bs2 though, of course.

pein · 2020-02-06 10:04:30

with 6 slots it is bullshit

dig the rock
cut it with a mallet (chisel takes no slot)
cut the short shaft
use hot coals to make paper
cook the blue colouring and write map
that's 5 slots already
then you need stakes.

if you got no clue where your town is, then you need to explore. when you got a bell base you can make a road to match the Y coordinates, and just draw it under the spring, the long road was 11 below the bell, if you been in bell town you could know that and match the road backwards.

since you already made map, you can leave a note to "continue this road west", works best for one direction only, some road builders don't do much progress but you really need to reach the point where you are straight into the city, so make diagonal road until you set it up. if you do this both sides than probably they see the stakes and road and notes and maps, so pretty obvious.

Families can die out, so only viable if the towns are a decent size and maybe some strategic resources near them.

Punkypal · 2020-02-07 22:48:32

UPDATE: Feb 7th

I made a path leading directly south from the first bell town in the north. Need someone to drop stones with horse and cart. This connects to the road heading out of Punkytown.

The road going West from Punkytown is unbroken and complete for about 800 tiles. It continues onward into Eve country as broken path. We could use someone to deliver stones out there also.

I took a little time to fight the apocalypse and vault up the endstones I captured. I also spent some time just doing minor fix ups and town maintence/clean up. ALSO, I made a large "art project" just south of Punkytown next to the highway. Everyone should go inspect it!

Last edited by Punkypal (2020-02-07 22:49:53)

Legs · 2020-02-07 23:09:18

Consider starting construction on secondary bell towers in punkytown. Zucc world currently has three and they ring constantly, four if you include the sister bell town to the northeast of zucc. They really drown out punkytown's rare bong.

The radios help to encourage recruitment between towns but those are easily sabotaged and difficult to repair. More importantly, even if someone wanted to come from zucc to punkytown they'd find it difficult without a marker.

Punkypal · 2020-02-08 00:18:37

Legs wrote:

Consider starting construction on secondary bell towers in punkytown. Zucc world currently has three and they ring constantly, four if you include the sister bell town to the northeast of zucc. They really drown out punkytown's rare bong.
The radios help to encourage recruitment between towns but those are easily sabotaged and difficult to repair. More importantly, even if someone wanted to come from zucc to punkytown they'd find it difficult without a marker.

This is perhaps the best suggestion you've ever made! In fact, the "art project" incorporates a second bell tower at Punkytown.

After I pretty much finished the core layout I stepped back because it's interesting to me to see what people would do. For instance, I like that someone turned one of the stone buildings I constructed into a garden and everyone just left it like that so far. Originally my thought was it would be the carpenter shop. Anyway, I was curious if someone would build another bell tower, but alas so far they did not.

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In regards to what has happened in town there are a few things I don't like.

1) The six waystones (or so) someone put in the nursery with "instructions" for everyone to wear colors to match the job they are doing. I like the idea, but it seems impossible to actually pull off. That's a bunch of floor space wasted for a pie in the sky idea. I'd rather they had dropped that outside if they had to, or at least put floor down first under the waystones.
2) Attempts to make it a walled city. I've torn down all those walls. Pine walls I don't mind as much, or a stone wall further out with big openings for entry/exit. Anything else I see as an attempt to grief the town, so were removed.
3) The attempts to take over the long hall with the blue wall "Castle" by putting locks on all the doors. I've removed and destroyed at least a dozen locks until they finally gave up. Whomever was doing that, you didn't build that building. It isn't yours to claim privately. Trying to do so is stealing. Go make your own building if you want to lock it up. That's public property.
4) People who dug up wild gooseberry (free food) to put in some crap they didn't even finish. I took great care to build around existing free food. Your shitty, now collapsed, building could have gone a few spaces to the west or north, etc.
5) The griefer who build four little swastika at all corners of town and tried to take horses out into wilderness. I hope you had fun, they lasted less than 30 minutes. I did use that stone to make my "art project" so I do appreciate you helping haul all the flat stone. The time it took to tear up your graffiti was less than it would have taken me to get the stones myself. Also, every life as I'd run back into town from other places, those horses were a great help getting back. Thank you for your efforts.

Anyway, I could have removed those waystones with the silly instructions but I didn't want to take that much time, and I was kinda interested to see if anyone would do what they say. They stayed because I allowed it. Everything else, not so much. Basically if someone wants to mess with a town, they really should pick another spot of they don't want to waste their time. I'm ever present in Punkytown. Just a FYI.

Last edited by Punkypal (2020-02-08 00:20:12)

JackTreehorn · 2020-02-08 02:52:14

I appreciate your work Punky, I really liked that town. I didnt care much for Zucc.
I made four radios in Punkytown and wrote a book "The Wes Chronicles" for the Library.
Another player I met wrote the other two books "History of man and Genesis"

A few things I didn't like about the town were:
How unsecured it was, I really think we need to do what Jason suggests by having walls (perhaps just pine) and two to four gates that can be guarded.
Also people made that egg station and flooded the town with eggs. I spent an entire life picking up baskets of eggs and dumping them in the desert.

What I would like to see in the next town is a tiny room in a central position. In that room we can lock a radio receiver so it doesn't get tampered with and so everyone can hear it while they work.

Last edited by JackTreehorn (2020-02-08 03:01:52)

Rose · 2020-02-08 03:08:04

JackTreehorn wrote:

I really appreciate your work Punky, I really liked that town. I didnt care much for Zucc.
I made four radios in Punkytown and wrote a book "The Wes Chronicles" for the Library.
Another player I met wrote the other two books "History of man and Genesis"
Also people made that egg station and flooded the town with eggs. I spent an entire life picking up baskets of eggs and dumping them in the desert.

We should eat as much wild food as possible. The egg station is not a bed idea.
Just cook the eggs instead taking them away. (I hope you brought baskets back to town).

JackTreehorn · 2020-02-08 03:15:57

We should eat as much wild food as possible. The egg station is not a bed idea.
Just cook the eggs instead taking them away. (I hope you brought baskets back to town).

I didn't take the eggs from the egg station just the baskets of eggs in the bakery, nursery and outside near the rubber station.
There were still towers of baskets near the winery so we weren't lacking baskets.

Last edited by JackTreehorn (2020-02-08 03:18:54)

Punkypal · 2020-02-08 03:21:59

JackTreehorn wrote:

I appreciate your work Punky, I really liked that town. I didnt care much for Zucc.
I made four radios in Punkytown and wrote a book "The Wes Chronicles" for the Library.
Another player I met wrote the other two books "History of man and Genesis"
A few things I didn't like about the town were:
How unsecured it was, I really think we need to do what Jason suggests by having walls (perhaps just pine) and two to four gates that can be guarded.
Also people made that egg station and flooded the town with eggs. I spent an entire life picking up baskets of eggs and dumping them in the desert.
What I would like to see in the next town is a tiny room in a central position. In that room we can lock a radio receiver so it doesn't get tampered with and so everyone can hear it while they work.

Well I like the egg station. There are too many baskets in town. Someone could just basket them all up (I did quite a few today actually). I actually straightened up that area a little and brought the eggs back, I asked a few of my kids if they could get to work cooking them. Last I saw there were at least 20 omelettes. That cleaned out at least half of the eggs.

As for the radio in a central position. The kitchen/nursery is an L shape. Just above that L that has the nursery storage would be a good spot to lock in a receiver. There is still plenty of stone around. One horse cart load would make a stone wall addition for a radio shack. That's where I'd put it.

As for walls, they really don't matter. Only good really to prevent bears from getting in, but there really aren't any bears left in the area. Walls would be nifty if there actually could be guards always, but that won't happen. What they actually do is make it easy for a greifer to block people in, and make it hard for people to get out to get things outside the walls.

Now last reset there was the far east town that had the first bell and where the great road started. It had a wall but it was done well. The builder pushed it far back so the town had room to grow inside the wall area. The openings were wide and they set corner stones and let the go ancient to make it look good. The seemed to consider what was on other side of wall and left openings where players would need to get to. I'd be fine with such a wall. But just trying to connect the existing buildings to make a little trap isn't acceptable.

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#76 2020-02-03 10:34:38

Re: Road Helpers Wanted!

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Re: Road Helpers Wanted!

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