Changes to the way personal curses function

Spoonwood · 2020-02-08 04:42:26

jasonrohrer wrote:

GAH, it's 5:00 already.... gotta table this stuff until next week.

You sure you should wait on this one?

JasonY · 2020-02-08 04:48:07

Spoonwood wrote:

JasonY wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
Have you actually asked JasonY the stated reason for why he got banned? Because I don't think he got banned for that reason.

"Misquoting others and disruptive behavior despite warnings"

But also notice the irony in spoon woods post. HE misquoted ME. My #1 hater.
I've edited it above. I can't express how much it pisses me off seeing that I made that mistake, and from my recollection I've done this before, using the wrong name for the quotation, but I think I caught it before anyone else seemed to notice. I think I copy and pasted part of what Legs wrote, instead of the whole thing, and was thinking about you, so I ended up putting your name in the quote box. I probably should have just used the quote feature... but I've also found it awkward when trying to keep in mind other comments in a thread, though I wasn't doing that here.

It's all good.

Punkypal · 2020-02-08 05:51:28

Legs wrote:

The griefers are already vehemently praising this as a way to identify heroes. Have fun spewing a black F as a baby and being abandoned in the wild, or cursed then murdered. This update really, really only enables more grief, more murder and more chaos. It's a highly antisocial mechanic that sows discord more than anything.

Oh noes! Yea, we real worried. Because griefers always take so much time to care for babies I'm quite sure. Again, you show that you chat more than think. How is the griefer going to mark the "heros" and then abandon them when they birth them as babies. Go on, take a think on that one.

And I'm sorry to tell you but you're outnumbered vs. cooperative players. Idle threats of. "Oh, we minority will mark you!" are meaningless. What are you going to do to a marked player? The same shit you already were doing? Instead of murdering you, Imma gonna murder you! Uh oh, we wouldn't want that! You have no cards to play so STFU. The best you can now hope for is to mark players that watch you, so you can know to not grief around them. Good, do that. I hope one of them is always around.

If if y'all are "vehemently praising this", then griefers might just be as dumb as I think they are. Or maybe you're just unsure what vehemently means. Things that come with more downside that upside typically aren't praised "vehemently", so ya know.... I'm actually just going with no griefer is praising this in any kind of way, and you're just spewing BS hoping some cooperative player might be dumb enough to think this is bad. Yes, telling people smarter than you that 2+2=5. Gangbusters of a plan there. Really solid.

Last edited by Punkypal (2020-02-08 06:24:15)

Punkypal · 2020-02-08 06:02:54

MrGold wrote:

Well Jason I have support your decisions for a very long time and I have respected them but this one seems nice but why damn 30 days? Why not just a week. It's also unfair to people who fight griefers and get cursed for dumb reasons. y*our going to get cursed for killing a griefer now for now on I will know your a griefer* what the hell? Seems like a personal ban to someone but you are a open target as well as a baby what?! But pls Jason at least listen to a fan who's been playing your game for almost 3 years and i have enjoyed your content to the fullest with friends and family but this I don't like what's going to happen I have fear lots* of fear of this.

Thay already almost always curse you back for actually ending their fun at ruining others gameplay. Unless you are THE BEST griefer killer ever, like the Batman x100 of OHOL, then I wouldn't worry about their retribution curses. I play guard fairly often when I'm in town and I catch about two or three a month at the most, and that's with playing WAAAAAAY too many hours per day. In the last few weeks I only got one other curse. Some rando ran past me on a road, said "Your name is stupid", cursed me, and then kept running. The only reason they curse back is to get under your skin. They know it won't ever effect you, you should know that too. Don't let them mess with your head. If the only reason you pick up curses if from stopping ACTUAL GRIERERS (not just every person that ever so slightly annoys you), then I don't think there is anything to worry about.

As for 30 days, that's the way it's been for a long time. I don't know about 3 years ago though. IDK why you so afraid over that. It's been that way. Have you been afraid this whole time and didn't even know it?

Last edited by Punkypal (2020-02-08 06:08:40)

Rose · 2020-02-08 07:54:37

Punkypal wrote:

Legs wrote:
The griefers are already vehemently praising this as a way to identify heroes. Have fun spewing a black F as a baby and being abandoned in the wild, or cursed then murdered. This update really, really only enables more grief, more murder and more chaos. It's a highly antisocial mechanic that sows discord more than anything.
Oh noes! Yea, we real worried. Because griefers always take so much time to care for babies I'm quite sure. Again, you show that you chat more than think. How is the griefer going to mark the "heros" and then abandon them when they birth them as babies. Go on, take a think on that one.
And I'm sorry to tell you but you're outnumbered vs. cooperative players. Idle threats of. "Oh, we minority will mark you!" are meaningless. What are you going to do to a marked player? The same shit you already were doing? Instead of murdering you, Imma gonna murder you! Uh oh, we wouldn't want that! You have no cards to play so STFU. The best you can now hope for is to mark players that watch you, so you can know to not grief around them. Good, do that. I hope one of them is always around.
If if y'all are "vehemently praising this", then griefers might just be as dumb as I think they are. Or maybe you're just unsure what vehemently means. Things that come with more downside that upside typically aren't praised "vehemently", so ya know.... I'm actually just going with no griefer is praising this in any kind of way, and you're just spewing BS hoping some cooperative player might be dumb enough to think this is bad. Yes, telling people smarter than you that 2+2=5. Gangbusters of a plan there. Really solid.

I cursed griefer and than he cursed me. I said "TY" .
Being cursed by griefer is one of the best things that might happen to me in OHOL.
LEGS - please curse as much as you can so more people could enjoy being born far from you.

Last edited by Rose (2020-02-08 07:55:51)

st2019 · 2020-02-08 08:30:12

I once made a suggestion about global "devils tails".
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/searc … er_id=3767

But I like the idea with a local one much better! And counter-cursing is now something I really appreciate!

FluxBB bbcode test

Would it be hard to mod this in?

Last edited by st2019 (2020-02-08 08:31:14)

Legs · 2020-02-08 08:32:07

I'm not a griefer you moron I'm playing devil's advocate.

If anything you're the griefer spending every life as a fertile female alone in the wilderness building roads and letting all your babies starve in the name of autism.

Wuatduhf · 2020-02-08 09:19:04

Legs wrote:

The griefers are already vehemently praising this as a way to identify heroes. Have fun spewing a black F as a baby and being abandoned in the wild, or cursed then murdered. This update really, really only enables more grief, more murder and more chaos. It's a highly antisocial mechanic that sows discord more than anything.

The logical leaps in this are quite amusing. First you say that it'll identify "heroes"?

Lol what.

If griefers do generic curse-targeting to each of their victims or whoever stops them, they'll end up having a massive list of people that they see as black. That's not how you "identify heroes", that's just mass-distributed cursing. The only thing cursing their "hero" baby will do is simply refresh the month-long timer again on said individual.

It is an objective truth that "Heroes" have no tools at their disposal to be pre-warned of griefers that are being born in their village/town, and being able to prep for dealing with them. Meanwhile the griefer operates incognito until their time to strike is ready. Nothing has stopped griefers from watching who 'productive' people are in a town, and knowing who their initial targets will be. This feature benefits both parties but is HEAVILY skewed towards helping the anti-griefing camp. This is the first tool that gives "heroes" any ability of gaining an idea who may be a "bad apple". The ambiguity of the Hero vs. Villian prospect between lives is also going to be a social challenge for towns to now overcome.

Neither of you can prove who is the "Hero" and who is the "Villain" if it turns into a rivalry to the death. The "hero" can stalk and keep tabs on the "villain" or griefer, and wait for them to do something grief-adjacent before recruiting others to their side and dispatching them. This also means that across lives, these "heroes" - that you think are going to be the victims - will be able to build up a laundry-list monthly; who on their blacklist is a shitter, who have they tried to reconcile with but failed, who they have successfully made amends with.

Jason definitely needed to keep the Curse names unique per viewing person; that would've gotten very powerful if it was the same name for every other person to see after cursing. I'm very interested to see what social aspects of OHOL culture are forced to adapt to this new system of being able to deal with griefers. After all, it's not just going to be those two camps going after each other alone; I'm sure we'll see other aspects/cliques using it too.

Last edited by Wuatduhf (2020-02-08 09:19:55)

JasonY · 2020-02-08 09:20:57

Legs wrote:

I'm not a griefer you moron I'm playing devil's advocate.
If anything you're the griefer spending every life as a fertile female alone in the wilderness building roads and letting all your babies starve in the name of autism.

Usually, people don't play devils advocate unless they have something to gain from it.

Yeah, Most anti-griefing methods are ironically also used for griefing. Healing, Killing, Posse, Fences and now cursing.

Griefers have no reason to keep babies anyway unless it is one of their own.

Gogo · 2020-02-08 13:11:01

So if they won't keep babies they will lose score.

Cool.

I got ideas. If two griefers are better than bunch of townsfolks, I suggest it's time to use hierarchy idiots. If they wanna you to follow them, ask if they will deal with griefers if they show up.

Actually the more RP idiots the better. Tell them you wanna two followers yourself, if you gonna follow. They will be happy to create supreme (eee I forgot the title) and you will be happy to have some help.

Teach babies about following, orders and griefers method (murderer+healer). Tell babies to follow you when older. Also start to follow anyone who you trust, even little, form groups.

Make extra apron, load it with pads and thread and when no one watching store it behind tree or wall, just for you.

Last edited by Gogo (2020-02-08 13:13:00)

jasonrohrer · 2020-02-08 16:35:44

I actually drew donkey tails a while back, but decided not to put them in the game. A little bit too magic. Curses generally are already magic enough!

There's something almost everyone is forgetting here:

By the nature of curses (they stop a cursed person from being born near you), you will literally NEVER see a black F speech bubble coming from a baby. Cursed babies aren't born near you, right? So you will never see a baby born and have to warn the mother that their baby is cursed.

In almost all circumstances, you will also never be born to a mother that you see as cursed (unless there are literally no other mothers for you server-wide).

There are two situations where you will see cursed people around:

1. If they were born before you were born. Older sibs, older cousins, aunts, uncles, grandmas, etc. You're coming into this situation as a new baby, and you see that your uncle is the black sheep of the family. (You will never have a younger sib or cousin who is born marked for you.)

2. If they travel to your area from far away. A visitor comes down the road into your town. Hold the phone, that guy can't be trusted. Even if he happens to be a distant relative...

I hope you see how tight this is, thematically and mechanically.

For (1), as a baby, there are some family members IRL that give you the creeps and you never bond with. But mechanically, as a BB, you have no power to deal with this "bad uncle" for a while. You can barely even tell anyone about it. You have to wait until you grow up. That's a great "cooling off" period where you can watch that bad uncle and see if he's still up to his old tricks. Or maybe he's changed, right? By the time you're old enough to kill his creepy ass, you may have changed your mind about him. "What's up with my niece? She's always following me around and staring at me...."

For (2), thematically, some visiting strangers give you bad vibes. Mechanically, this is the perfect filter to help you judge the potential intentions of visitors, even those that don't speak your language.

For a real griefer, case (1) will be very rare. Lots of people will agree and have the real griefer cursed, which means they will be less and less likely to be born ahead of you in a village where you end up. If you have a "bad uncle," he's very likely an edge case who does bad stuff now and again, rather than evil incarnate.

And the persistent curse tags (DOLL KING or whatever) will help you tell the difference. You trust your uncle, even though he's cursed, and then he kills the whole village. You'll remember the curse tag DOLL KING in the future, and never trust him again.

Finally, case (2) is pretty great when it comes to thwarting revenge griefing. Say the village identifies and kills a griefer, and mass curses him before he dies. They all get to SEE his new curse tag before he dies.

30 minutes later, after being born elsewhere, he travels back to your village to avenge his death. But you all instantly recognize him by his curse tag. Outta here.

miskas · 2020-02-08 16:59:33

I LOVE IT!
Now curses tracks Reputation as well.
Seeing a black speech guy would automatically alert you that you have to keep an eye on that guy and also Warn the village about him.

Cursing someone is like saying to him, I will keep an eye on you.
people would now know that are being watched and they are not a completely Anonymous player.

Kinrany · 2020-02-08 17:44:42

jasonrohrer wrote:

By the nature of curses (they stop a cursed person from being born near you), you will literally NEVER see a black F speech bubble coming from a baby. Cursed babies aren't born near you, right? So you will never see a baby born and have to warn the mother that their baby is cursed.

The curse system relies on the idea of players being close or far. But now that we have roads everywhere and hostile biomes, relying on the difference in coordinates is no longer enough to reasonably guess whether the players will ever meet. They may be on the same road that doesn't lead anywhere else, or they may be on the opposite sides of a huge biome that neither can traverse.

So maybe it's time to just start sending people with too many curse tokens to Donkey Town.

Last edited by Kinrany (2020-02-08 17:48:22)

jasonrohrer · 2020-02-08 18:18:04

The point, Kinrany, is that you will never have to deal with seeing a cursed baby get born.

Yeah, there are roads, but those don't help distant babies get born near you.

As soon as a mother migrates to your town via a road, NONE of her babies will be cursed for you. By being near her when her babies are born, you block any cursed babies from coming into your town through her.

Outsiders can travel to your town, but they will not be newborn babies.

On rare occasion, an outsider mother might bring a young cursed child (2-3 years old) to your town.

Anyway, the initial curse system (pre d-town) had babies that were marked for everyone. That presented an annoying problem, where you had to decide how to treat cursed babies. Killing them was just busy-work.

This new "marked people" system has the emergent property of never marking incoming babies, so it dodges that annoying problem.

st2019 · 2020-02-08 20:03:26

JASON! Just three things to make it even better:

#1: Let us "un-curse" people in the life we cursed people. But only in that life.
Sometimes we have false informations. We curse. We make mistakes. We gather new information and we regret it. We may talk after a murdering and come to the conclusion that the cursed one wasn't bad or was even a victim by himself. Please let us uncurse people. But only in that life in which we cursed.

#2: New players should be born in a relatively curse free area.
Please let new players be born in THE or A curse free area. It's best for them in their first (let's say 7th?) lifes. With the new cursing system each player is a bit responsible for new players.

#3: Give the worst person a Devil's tail. Let's say as a daily, weekly or monthly 'award'.
Come on! Give something to the griefers! They need a reward. As bad as they are, the are still necessary. (Otherwise the game would be boring in some situations). Grant the worst player someting unique. It will be fun! It will be a hard way for a griefer in the new cursing mechanism to achieve that.

Last edited by st2019 (2020-02-08 20:06:41)

Kinrany · 2020-02-08 20:40:34

jasonrohrer wrote:

Anyway, the initial curse system (pre d-town) had babies that were marked for everyone. That presented an annoying problem, where you had to decide how to treat cursed babies. Killing them was just busy-work.

Oh, I see, banning cursed players from spawning nearby does make sense as an equivalent/automation of killing off all cursed babies!

MrGold · 2020-02-08 20:48:43

But why 30 days just seems like too much like 10 is better

DiscardedSlinky · 2020-02-08 21:00:01

MrGold wrote:

But why 30 days just seems like too much like 10 is better

Don't grief and it won't affect you!

It's a good threat. 30 days you can't play if you don't play nice. Very fair.

testo · 2020-02-08 21:01:02

MrGold wrote:

But why 30 days just seems like too much like 10 is better

Most of the people that I curse is because I don´t want play with them ever again. Like in "I´d rather go to donkey town" kind of ever. So thirty days is sort of too little for me.

DestinyCall · 2020-02-08 21:01:06

MrGold wrote:

But why 30 days just seems like too much like 10 is better

30 days seems just fine to me. A single curse has very little impact. It just limits your ability to be born close to one player. You can still get born in another town or village. And it has no effect if that person isn't currently playing the game.

As the cursed player, you only start to see the effects of being cursed if you are cursed by multiple people who are living in different parts of the map. There would need to be someone who cursed you actively playing in every village before you would end up in Donkey Town. If you have managed to piss off that many people in a 30 day period, it wasn't an accident.

If you are getting cursed frequently, you should seriously re-think how you interact with other people. That isn't normal.

Cantface · 2020-02-08 21:02:13

st2019 wrote:

#3: Give the worst person a Devil's tail. Let's say as a daily, weekly or monthly 'award'.
Come on! Give something to the griefers! They need a reward. As bad as they are, the are still necessary. (Otherwise the game would be boring in some situations). Grant the worst player someting unique. It will be fun! It will be a hard way for a griefer in the new cursing mechanism to achieve that.

Ooh this idea is fab! If a tail is still 'too magical' then what about a unique face tattoo? One that's different from the others? Or if magic tattoos from birth is still too much, they could be born with a different FACE from everyone! >:D <------- like that, but better obviously.

Last edited by Cantface (2020-02-08 21:02:40)

DestinyCall · 2020-02-08 21:05:10

Cantface wrote:

st2019 wrote:
#3: Give the worst person a Devil's tail. Let's say as a daily, weekly or monthly 'award'.
Come on! Give something to the griefers! They need a reward. As bad as they are, the are still necessary. (Otherwise the game would be boring in some situations). Grant the worst player someting unique. It will be fun! It will be a hard way for a griefer in the new cursing mechanism to achieve that.
Ooh this idea is fab! If a tail is still 'too magical' then what about a unique face tattoo? One that's different from the others? Or if magic tattoos from birth is still too much, they could be born with a different FACE from everyone! >:D <------- like that, but better obviously.

People would want to be cursed to get the cool tail. People can be kinda dumb. That was one of the problems with marking cursed players - players thought the black text was cool, so they abused the system to get special colored text.

So it was hard to say if someone was cursed because they were a serious troublemaker or just because they have poor taste.

This system sounds better, because the cursed player and random bystanders can't see the curse, only the player to delivers the curse can see the mark. It can't be used as a status symbol or cosmetic feature.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2020-02-08 21:07:04)

st2019 · 2020-02-08 22:31:17

DestinyCall wrote:

Cantface wrote:
st2019 wrote:
#3: Give the worst person a Devil's tail. Let's say as a daily, weekly or monthly 'award'.
Come on! Give something to the griefers! They need a reward. As bad as they are, the are still necessary. (Otherwise the game would be boring in some situations). Grant the worst player someting unique. It will be fun! It will be a hard way for a griefer in the new cursing mechanism to achieve that.
Ooh this idea is fab! If a tail is still 'too magical' then what about a unique face tattoo? One that's different from the others? Or if magic tattoos from birth is still too much, they could be born with a different FACE from everyone! >:D <------- like that, but better obviously.
People would want to be cursed to get the cool tail. People can be kinda dumb. That was one of the problems with marking cursed players - players thought the black text was cool, so they abused the system to get special colored text.
So it was hard to say if someone was cursed because they were a serious troublemaker or just because they have poor taste.
[... ...]

And that's exactly what we need. Believe it or not. There must be bad guys. Jason always told us about it and I think he was right.

With the new curse system, the way to "master evil" is very difficult because the community will recognize Griefers very quickly. AND GRIEFERS WILL BE BORNE AWAY (Remember that) !!! So grief is brought to a "better" level. The griefers must do more than just stabbing people or archer someone. They need plans, they invest time to plan their attacks. The danger is growing and people can and will prepare for it.

"Black text" was very easy for everyone to reach. But becoming a "master of evil" takes MUCH more effort.

Last edited by st2019 (2020-02-08 22:32:02)

DestinyCall · 2020-02-08 22:47:32

Oh you are just adorable. "Master of evil". Too cute.

Gogo · 2020-02-09 01:05:49

Oh gosh. I'm sorry Jason I tried to stabb you in Zucc town xD. I just wanna checked if you're kinda deathproof, not really trying to kill you. I was cleansing the post griefer mess, griefers really hates Zucc, just like me.

"#1: Let us "un-curse" people in the life we cursed people. But only in that life."

Don't you think it can cause mass cursing-uncursing just for fun? Too much chaos.

Last edited by Gogo (2020-02-09 04:36:44)

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#26 2020-02-08 04:42:26

Re: Changes to the way personal curses function

#27 2020-02-08 04:48:07

Re: Changes to the way personal curses function

#28 2020-02-08 05:51:28

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