An interesting change.

JasonY · 2020-02-13 05:47:18

In the next update, You will NEED a posse to kill somebody in a populated area.

TheRubyCart · 2020-02-13 05:57:44

h m m m m mm m ............. . . . .

JasonY · 2020-02-13 08:08:29

cordy wrote:

Griefers:
Trust each other.
Communicate easily (esp. with Discord, etc.).
Organized team.
Leadership.
= Easy to make a posse
+ Usually Bows (Ranged Weapon)
+ Medic on Standby
+ On horseback

Non-griefers:
Language Barrier.
Don't know each other beforehand, don't know if they can trust that you're telling the truth. (He said, she said.)
Takes time to explain and convince people that there are griefers, what they did, etc.
Could be newbie, don't know about posse and how to join them.
Bystander effect.
= Hard to make a posse
+ Usually knives
+ Floundering for the pads, sterilized knife, thread
+ On foot

I agree.

Averest · 2020-02-13 12:22:35

And the second I start thinking I'll come back and play this happens. Back to waiting.

Lava · 2020-02-13 13:39:51

Jason doesn’t under stand this new of no solo kills only helps Griefers, Griefers are always in a posse with at least three people in an area while the players are disorganized and don’t speak the same language most of the time.

Jojigirl · 2020-02-13 14:06:38

Has this thread not been seen when making this decision?

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9054

He was on a good streak with updates too.. This one broke that streak.

Last edited by Jojigirl (2020-02-13 14:08:43)

Gogo · 2020-02-13 15:25:10

First update for griefers lol.

Last edited by Gogo (2020-02-13 15:25:42)

jasonrohrer · 2020-02-13 16:13:47

I added some kill-logging a few days ago.

Here's a sample of all the solo kills from a few hour period and who did them. I've marked in green all the ones that are "innocent" victims with no blood on their hands yet.

I've marked in yellow group kills.

2689337 by 2689284
2689373 by 2689369
2689421 by 2689403
2689421 by 2689407
2689389 by 2689407
2689407 by 2689406
2689442 by 2689518
2689518 by 2689436
2689482 by 2689490
2689483 by 2689499
2689455 by 2689477
2689502 by 2689490
2689490 by 2689505
2689505 by 2689498
2689492 by 2689562
2689562 by 2689477
2689477 by 2689563
2689531 by 2689498
2689499 by 2689563
2689557 by 2689506
2689498 by 2689563
2689578 by 2689515
2689515 by 2689570
2689515 by 2689506
2689562 by 2689498
2689498 by 2689563
2689563 by 2689506
2689562 by 2689526

15 out of 24 solo kills were done in cold blood.

Only ONE of the 5 group kills was done in cold blood.

I.e., 62% of the solo kills that are happening are done out of the blue, without prior blood as justification. If you're contention is that they're all thieves being killed, well.... probably not. More likely, they are griefers bugging people by killing.

The other 38% of the kills are revenge kills (done in warm blood).

The idea that griefers are banding together constantly to get people is also not supported by the data.

In a sample 15 hour period more recently, there were 73 solo kills, 6 group kills, and 11 instances of healing to stop a kill.

You guys got that? 92% of kills are solo kills, currently.

7% of kills are group kills.

So the VAST majority of kills are not due to "griefers ganging up on people," but instead griefers acting alone (or, perhaps, justifiable solo kills of thieves and such, but if the person is such an agreed-upon problem, a group kill shouldn't be hard to achieve).

Lava · 2020-02-13 16:28:46

Try the data from Monday.

jasonrohrer · 2020-02-13 16:30:37

This particular log wasn't in place on Monday.

jasonrohrer · 2020-02-13 16:33:07

Also, here's the murder victimization rate from the month of February:

This shows what percentage of the unique players each day were themselves the victims of murder at least once that day. 15-25% is quite high.

Legs · 2020-02-13 16:45:08

This approach completely eliminates the possibility of self-defense while empowering liars and bloodthirsty mothers gossiping around the fire. In a sense, it enables griefers to more directly commit violence by straight-up murdering people while hiding behind a group of helpful idiots. Previously, somebody that murdered became very suspicious. Now they become the leader of a violent mob. Anyone that tries to stop the murder party becomes an enemy of the mob and is killed, helpless to defend themselves.

Players are not as observant or reasonable as you seem to think. A little bit of slander to stir up self-righteous indignation and they'll happily commit murder against an innocent nonviolent person, feeling completely justified in doing so. You're completely ignoring the social aspects of violence.

unoriginal artist · 2020-02-13 17:06:41

Legit not gonna lie ive returned to bells to curse griefers after having been murdered by them while young. Also never play in weekends or after school hours cause thats when the griefers like to go after bell towns....... *cause school is out* 0-0

Cant grind gene score when ur being murdered as a baby!

Last edited by unoriginal artist (2020-02-13 17:09:17)

Bremidon · 2020-02-13 17:14:42

Hey Jason, I see what you're trying to do, I think. The general idea is that any decision that requires more people *should*, in theory, benefit the town. Makes sense.

However, as others have pointed out, attackers have a major advantage here. They can plan ahead of time, be ready and spring the attack suddenly.

Griefers are already organizing outside of the game and using the 24 lives to basically twin without the drawbacks of twinning. (btw, could we get that lowered to something closer to 4? Maybe beginning players can start off with 16 lives or something, in order to make it over the learning curve, but it only regenerates to 4).

They are already toasting players before we have a chance to organize a reasonable defense. Could we at least have something like a sheriff, who doesn't need other players to react?

unoriginal artist · 2020-02-13 17:36:06

Bremidon wrote:

Hey Jason, I see what you're trying to do, I think. The general idea is that any decision that requires more people *should*, in theory, benefit the town. Makes sense.
However, as others have pointed out, attackers have a major advantage here. They can plan ahead of time, be ready and spring the attack suddenly.
Griefers are already organizing outside of the game and using the 24 lives to basically twin without the drawbacks of twinning. (btw, could we get that lowered to something closer to 4? Maybe beginning players can start off with 16 lives or something, in order to make it over the learning curve, but it only regenerates to 4).
They are already toasting players before we have a chance to organize a reasonable defense. Could we at least have something like a sheriff, who doesn't need other players to react?

erm but whose gonna be a sheriff lol, a griefer could take up the role if they wanted to, also plenty of people get ditched as babies and burn through a good chunk of their lives.

Cantface · 2020-02-13 17:41:37

I had to solo kill two or three people since I started playing again but they all had bloody weapons, we'll still be able to 1v1 a killer though right??? Nobody around me really knew how to join up either.

Last edited by Cantface (2020-02-13 17:44:55)

Kinrany · 2020-02-13 17:42:29

jasonrohrer wrote:

The idea that griefers are banding together constantly to get people is also not supported by the data.

That's not the idea. The idea is that they will do that after the change.

This data mostly says that group kills are rare. Thieves being killed is possible and revenge kills being done by opportunistic griefers is also possible, it's hard to say without data IMO.

I think this change is in the right direction, but it should be easy for new players to learn the posse mechanics.

Also this data does not include curses.

jasonrohrer · 2020-02-13 17:48:58

1v1 a killer?

In what context?

How did they kill in the first place, if 1v1 is impossible?

Oh, they had a posse of other people backing them, which allowed them to kill? Then they have support, and you shouldn't be able to 1v1 them.

1v1, by definition, means there's no consensus that the victim should die. You are acting unilaterally. I.e., without justification. At least not enough justification to convince 2 other peeps to agree with you.

The cap of 3 for min posse size is an arbitrary choice for now. If coordinated griefer teams are the only ones killing, and they reliably form posses of 3, then I will up it to 4 or 5 or whatever is necessary.

Each new person required makes forming a coordinated team dramatically more difficult. Forming a team of N is N^2 hard.

I want it to essentially get to the point where the ONLY people killed are those committing other non-murder crimes. Where the whole village agrees and decides the person should die.

With leadership, organizing a group of four or 5 isn't that hard in-game. Exile the target, so they can't hear the orders, and then use order messages to conspire against them.

Cantface · 2020-02-13 17:54:08

jasonrohrer wrote:

1v1 a killer?
In what context?
How did they kill in the first place, if 1v1 is impossible?
Oh, they had a posse of other people backing them, which allowed them to kill? Then they have support, and you shouldn't be able to 1v1 them.
1v1, by definition, means there's no consensus that the victim should die. You are acting unilaterally. I.e., without justification. At least not enough justification to convince 2 other peeps to agree with you.
The cap of 3 for min posse size is an arbitrary choice for now. If coordinated griefer teams are the only ones killing, and they reliably form posses of 3, then I will up it to 4 or 5 or whatever is necessary.
Each new person required makes forming a coordinated team dramatically more difficult. Forming a team of N is N^2 hard.

I want it to essentially get to the point where the ONLY people killed are those committing other non-murder crimes. Where the whole village agrees and decides the person should die.
With leadership, organizing a group of four or 5 isn't that hard in-game. Exile the target, so they can't hear the orders, and then use order messages to conspire against them.

Actually, they killed because new players stood around in the same spots so that they got hit with a bow twice and once with a knife over different lives. Even if they see the gasp/shocked face some new players still don't understand that they need to gtfo of a killers way! They're literally sitting ducks! They see the face, nothing happening for a while then they see the red and THEN it clicks.

In no situations I mentioned were the killers in a posse. They were alone is that now impossible? I played yesterday and earlier today, idk if anything changed yet.

Last edited by Cantface (2020-02-13 18:28:41)

Rose · 2020-02-13 18:10:43

One killer usually can't do much damage.
After this update greifers will ALWAYS attack in groups and it will ALWAYS end in mass-murder and town destruction.

Legs · 2020-02-13 18:47:14

So this is intended to make it more difficult for griefers to murder- which was never really a problem outside of rare outside coordination over a third party platform.

It also greatly empowers non-lethal griefing, which was always the biggest issue. Someone stealing that precious tank of kerosene and hiding it far outside of town. Taking vital tools like bellows or knitting needles so that productive work grinds to a halt while someone makes a new one, only for it to get stolen again a minute later. The type of griefing that happens offscreen and leaves a mystery as to who the culprit was. Even if you manage to pin the crime on someone good luck making it stick. Most people in this game are oblivious. They don't know how to smith or knit, let alone how annoying it can be to make the items involved. I mean, to begin with seeing is believing and very few people use the zoom mod to see anything outside of their immediate area. Heck even with the zoom mod it's very easy to miss little stuff like this.

A lot of times it was worth it to kill a griefer even if it meant some idiot stabbed or cursed me in revenge. Now even that kind of martyr's gambit is impossible. It's just bad.

Gogo · 2020-02-13 18:59:59

Lol. I just wonder what solo-murderers would do now. Form groups on discord? Try to convince others to mass murder? Spread lies to manipulate others against someone? Grief in other ways? Wait until some griefer team shows up and join them?

Last edited by Gogo (2020-02-13 19:00:49)

unoriginal artist · 2020-02-13 19:10:24

Gogo wrote:

Lol. I just wonder what solo-murderers would do now. Form groups on discord? Try to convince others to mass murder? Spread lies to manipulate others against someone? Grief in other ways? Wait until some griefer team shows up and join them?

probably join up with team griefers, theres a few in discords that work together to kill towns so.... honestly all of the above

AmberA · 2020-02-13 20:16:05

What if everyone could only damage 1 human per life? I feel like that would solve a lot of the killing issues.

jasonrohrer · 2020-02-13 23:43:20

I have thought about that, Amber....

Seems like a weird thing to have a "murder token to spend" burning a hole in your pocket. Don't waste it! Don't forget to use it!

Also, only player can live a dozen or more lives in a normal day, so that means they could kill a dozen people a day, or 84 people per week?

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-02-13 05:47:18

An interesting change.

#2 2020-02-13 05:57:44

Re: An interesting change.

#3 2020-02-13 08:08:29

Re: An interesting change.

#4 2020-02-13 12:22:35

Re: An interesting change.

#5 2020-02-13 13:39:51

Re: An interesting change.

#6 2020-02-13 14:06:38

Re: An interesting change.

#7 2020-02-13 15:25:10

Re: An interesting change.

#8 2020-02-13 16:13:47

Re: An interesting change.

#9 2020-02-13 16:28:46

Re: An interesting change.

#10 2020-02-13 16:30:37

Re: An interesting change.

#11 2020-02-13 16:33:07

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#12 2020-02-13 16:45:08

Re: An interesting change.

#13 2020-02-13 17:06:41

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#14 2020-02-13 17:14:42

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#15 2020-02-13 17:36:06

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#16 2020-02-13 17:41:37

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#17 2020-02-13 17:42:29

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#18 2020-02-13 17:48:58

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#19 2020-02-13 17:54:08

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#20 2020-02-13 18:10:43

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#21 2020-02-13 18:47:14

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#23 2020-02-13 19:10:24

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