Jason's Murder Problem Thread

Sakkiyn · 2018-04-16 01:11:27

ryantm wrote:

I like Lily's idea in https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … 8845#p8845 but instead of burning off bad karma over time, it could be tied to another issue: there's currently no real incentive to get to age 60. Getting to age 60 could remove one death from your account.
I feel like getting to age 60 would be something really rare for a murderer, but it's pretty common for an experienced player playing nicely.

Yeah that does sound like a good idea.

Drakulon · 2018-04-16 05:08:12

jasonrohrer wrote:

Also, hit points don't change anything.

I think that an additional health bar could change alot.
A big problem for me is how everything instant kills.
I would like to be able to lose health when getting attacked instead of dieing.
Its very frustrating to die by an animal, or another player, because you often don't have the chance to do anything about it.
Its easy to bring a bear or a snake to a village.

Another problem for me is that death comes from nowhere.
I wish there was a bigger field of sight, would help to spot animals earlier and people with weapons or even grievers.

KucheKlizma · 2018-04-16 05:30:15

I'm personally more worried about people killing all the milkweed.

There should be a counter for that as well, as well as milkweed blood and 10 second slowdown.

Drakulon · 2018-04-16 06:28:49

From another thread:

KucheKlizma wrote:

Aname wrote:
People have to help you.
Like if you get shot someone else has to get the Arrow out and then treat youre wounds. and if noone helps or if they are too slow you just die.
That's actually a very good idea.
Other ailments and cures would be great to have as well, so it's not all about starving or stepping on a hidden snake.
There could be poison, rabies, cold, severe wounds as well as treatments.

I also really like this.
This way a single murder would die after getting injured, but the people he injures can get treated.
You can still easily a kill griefer if everyone agrees not to treat his injuries.

Last edited by Drakulon (2018-04-16 10:32:19)

startafight · 2018-04-16 06:30:22

i dont mind the murder mechanic but i think there should be a way to ward off death. like a healing poultice that you need to have someone apply to you (to prevent solo murderers from healing). it could also work for the murderers if there are two of them but still preserves the "real" experience of the game. its just frustrating running back to your family to tell them your grandchild murdered you and not being able to do anything about slowly bleeding to death

breezeknight · 2018-04-16 07:25:27

startafight wrote:

i dont mind the murder mechanic but i think there should be a way to ward off death. like a healing poultice that you need to have someone apply to you (to prevent solo murderers from healing). it could also work for the murderers if there are two of them but still preserves the "real" experience of the game. its just frustrating running back to your family to tell them your grandchild murdered you and not being able to do anything about slowly bleeding to death

yes

life in OHOL is so short, wasting the last moments on running around & typing is utterly useless
most of the time i neither know nor i care who the murderer was, often there's not even a name, lol
but i care very much to stay alive for those meager minutes of my remaining in game life

any form of revenge in OHOL is superficial gestures, if a player sets out to spend his in game time with killing, then he will respawn
only making murder rather unattractive will help, softening the consequences for the victim will help, giving the victims a chance to survive will help
what doesn't help is concentrating on killers & adding more killing options into the game

kitty · 2018-04-16 07:28:38

I think that those that witness a murder should be able to stone the murderer. Stoning could cause the murder cool down to extend for longer. Making the person starve, stones are available most all the time and could work to stop such a person. Wouldn't want something that could be abused. Also maybe be able to heal a person with a mashed onion and mushroom.

Lum · 2018-04-16 09:02:50

A Karma system is definitely a bad idea. It means every player will have a score that is metagame, that applies to them outside of each life they live in the game. This is a problem because every single life should be unique, with no ties to the last one and nothing coming from these past lives (such as your crimes). We can't have that because it would ruin the idea that each experience is different and unbound from all others tou have had beforehand as well as will have afterwards.

Besides, people would start judging each other based on their karma scores, keeping only certain babies, or creating groups for people with some good scores only

Thorware · 2018-04-16 09:11:19

A murderer should drop their weapon while they are debuffed. Then witnesses have a window of opportunity for a choice to pick up the weapon and kill in retaliation, or they approve of the killing and let the player live. This implements safety in numbers. It is appropriate as the majority is typically the group with good intentions that wants to preserve the village.

So many times I have watched someone commit a clearly grief-motivated murder but I can't do anything about it even though they are bloody and moving slowly because I have no weapon. Often they have hidden all other weapons before beginning the murder rampage. All I can do is run and hide, or else watch the murderer patiently wait for the debuff to expire and then it's my turn next.

I think this "drop weapon" solution mostly solves the problem. It preserves the freedom of player choice in the game while bringing more possibility of consequences. People will still get picked off on the outskirts of town alone, but that's not so bad and actually adds an interesting dynamic to the game. If you happen upon a bloody corpse outside of town, you can quickly go back to town and warn your family that a killer is loose, then stick together or have a buddy system until the killer's identity is discovered and justice is served.

Sure, the statistic that 2% of all deaths are murders sounds low until you consider that the vast majority of deaths are from baby suicides and noob kids/Eves quickly starving. What percentage of deaths of those non-Eves older than 15 or so are murders? I'd guess it's much higher, maybe 20%. Suddenly murder is revealed to be a much bigger problem. And it's precisely those lives where you are older than 15 that murder stings so badly, because those are the lives where you have had time to become emotionally invested in your character and your village.

Last edited by Thorware (2018-04-16 09:15:07)

MrFineGentleman · 2018-04-16 09:33:32

As I've said in other thread, there should be a way for the players, not the game, to deliver punishment. Mainly a ban punishment.

So I propose a buildable object called a gallow. The way it works is that a knocked out player can be brought to the gallows, in which each player can use with nothing in their hands to contribute 1 guilty vote. After the town have decided enough vote have been gathered, a rope can be placed and the criminal will be punished depending on how many vote guilty. Also, the punishment might have a low base time, like 5 minutes for only 1 vote, with the ban time scaling significantly for each extra votes, for example, the first vote count as 5 minutes, the second vote add 10 minutes, the third vote adding another 15 minutes etc. This is so that the griefers can't just knock a guy out and execute him. The gallow also should be expensive so only towns can afford them. Another bonus is that public execution can be a real thing, with the town showing up to vote guilty. An innocent voting system might also be added for actual trial drama

This system work on both griefers and murderers, doesn't require the murder system to be heavily nerfed, and still require the town to take part in investigating and catching the criminal scum.

Someone can be knocked out with a club or any item that might be added. A knocked out person will wake up in 2 minute, and need to be tied with a lasso to increase the knock out time, perhaps by another 2 minute. Leaving while knocked out will also cause a ban equivalent of 3-5 votes. This means that the griefer can't DC to avoid the punishment, and any kidnapped innocent player will soon wake up as the griefer likely won't have a steady supply of lasso. Anyone DC'ing when on the gallows for less than 5 minute(to prevent a criminal just locking up someone on the gallows, never excuting him) will also be auto-banned, this time with 5-7 votes, perhaps even more vote than the town can give if they were to stay for the trial.

Also, you should be able to delay a person death with a bandage or some other medical items. Say, a stabbed person will have a bloodied effect on their screen and name, and require a bandage to DELAY the death for say, 5 more minutes. This mean that you can stay alive after combat, but like the olden times would still likely die from bleeding out or infections. Perhaps a more permanent fix would be in the modern tech tree, with medical items in between that delay death for a longer time, representing the medical advance that have been achieved through the ages.

Last edited by MrFineGentleman (2018-04-16 10:23:30)

Christoffer · 2018-04-16 09:35:27

Lum wrote:

A Karma system is definitely a bad idea. It means every player will have a score that is metagame, that applies to them outside of each life they live in the game. This is a problem because every single life should be unique, with no ties to the last one and nothing coming from these past lives (such as your crimes). We can't have that because it would ruin the idea that each experience is different and unbound from all others tou have had beforehand as well as will have afterwards.
Besides, people would start judging each other based on their karma scores, keeping only certain babies, or creating groups for people with some good scores only

Agree that a general karma system would _not_ be the way to go. However, a player who spends several lives as a player killer is already playing a meta game. It's totally fine for the game if such a player will find himself spawning as a grown male (Cain) in the wilderness next time. He chooses to play meta, and the game will respond by giving him a life long away from the other players next life. After he's lived a full life as Cain, he will spawn regularly the next time. No karma scores.

Verinon1 · 2018-04-16 10:08:40

Here’s the ideas I like so far:

1. Stabbing/shooting someone should take two hits to successfully kill someone, with a couple of seconds pause in between hits.

2. The game should force killers to drop their weapon.

3. Killers should be clearly marked after first hit with blood on their clothes/body and weapon.

4. People who have killed a set number of people (3? More?) in one life should be forced to spawn by themselves in the next life a great distance away from where they were last life.

5. Healing medicine/bandages.

6. Dead player bones of someone that has been murdered should have the name of the killer attached to them.

This should solve everything, IMO. Except for griefing crops. That’s a lot tougher to prevent.

Last edited by Verinon1 (2018-04-16 10:16:27)

TrustyWay · 2018-04-16 10:15:38

Verinon1 wrote:

Here’s the ideas I like so far:
1. Stabbing/shooting someone should take two hits to successfully kill someone, with a couple of seconds pause in between hits.
2. The game should force killers to drop their weapon.
3. Killers should be clearly marked after first hit with blood on their clothes/body and weapon.
4. People who have killed a set number of people (3? More?) in one life should be forced to spawn by themselves in the next life a great distance away from where they were last life.
This should solve everything, IMO.

Acctual system against murderer is fine, it is just up to players to react on their own. The real problem here is the griefering. When somebody is killed he always has the time to say who it was if he is around town.

Imagine that the knife drops ? Imagine many knives dropping. Big madness. Nobody has the power. Kids could stab until the end of the village.

MrFineGentleman · 2018-04-16 10:29:13

TrustyWay wrote:

Verinon1 wrote:
Here’s the ideas I like so far:
1. Stabbing/shooting someone should take two hits to successfully kill someone, with a couple of seconds pause in between hits.
2. The game should force killers to drop their weapon.
3. Killers should be clearly marked after first hit with blood on their clothes/body and weapon.
4. People who have killed a set number of people (3? More?) in one life should be forced to spawn by themselves in the next life a great distance away from where they were last life.
This should solve everything, IMO.
Acctual system against murderer is fine, it is just up to players to react on their own. The real problem here is the griefering. When somebody is killed he always has the time to say who it was if he is around town.
Imagine that the knife drops ? Imagine many knives dropping. Big madness. Nobody has the power. Kids could stab until the end of the village.

If they implement a ban system like my gallow proposal, the griefer will stop becoming a problem. Sure, there still a problem of finding the griefer, but I think that's the town's fault for not looking for a missing tool and/or a missing person. Or at least searching harder.

Kinrany · 2018-04-16 10:47:51

Keep in mind that:

1. killing is necessary to prevent other types of griefing
2. any new tool can also be abused by griefers
3. there can be more than one griefer at a time

Aurora Aurora · 2018-04-16 12:01:22

Potjeh wrote:

Karma system, each kill you lose a point. *Zero* passive karma regeneration. To get a karma point another player has to use an item on you, something like a medal. It should be an item that requires moderate effort to make, but is accessible to low tech so Eve can reward her kids. The point is that it shouldn't be easily spammable, so not only is regaining it hard for griefers, but it also makes it possible to meaningfully thank someone who has been of great help. Maybe also a negative karma item, to punish bad kids without resorting to murder. Karma would be visible to anyone, so if you get low karma by being an ass you'll be doomed to play as Eve forever because nobody will raise you. Conversely, good karma will get you prioritized over other babies, because everyone wants a helpful player in town.

I really like this idea. Especially the medal part, i've had some really lovely kids and parents that I want to reward for being so wonderul and helpful. But I think it should be more than one kill for negative karma, like if I kill a greifer and don't get a medal right afterwards ill be seen as a bad person. I think it should be every 3rd kill at least.

Last edited by Aurora Aurora (2018-04-16 12:02:17)

nategate2020 · 2018-04-16 13:00:13

Verinon1 wrote:

2. The game should force killers to drop their weapon.
. . .
4. People who have killed a set number of people (3? More?) in one life should be forced to spawn by themselves in the next life a great distance away from where they were last life.

I disagree with these; I want to see self-sustaining city-states be able to tear into one another over resources. What the point of warlike behavior if our guards have to drop their weapons after a self-defensive kill?

The problem here is not homicide, the issue is the rapidity with which griefers may inflict damage.

Potjeh · 2018-04-16 13:25:42

Killing a human should break the knife or arrow, whichever was used. It'd make serial killing a lot harder I think.

btn · 2018-04-16 13:43:52

IMO there should maybe be an option, if you're murdered, to report someone for griefing.

one report alone because you accidentally stabbed your kid trying to give them a knife won't mean much on someones backlog, but if you rack up constant reports for killing in a small amount of time, you can potentially be banned, penalized, permanantly be named "LITERALLY SATAN" whenever you're born, WHATEVER as punishment for griefing. maybe only over toddler age can report their murders so people can still cull children if needed. murder is still there, a usable mechanic - it's just up to the individual to decide how salty they are about it.

it's not MURDER that needs to be penalized - it's the abuse of it as a tool just to fuck with people day after day that gets tiring for players.

Jorge · 2018-04-16 14:01:13

jasonrohrer wrote:

Also, hit points don't change anything.
They make it harder to murder, but also harder to kill griefers.
Same with armor or whatever. And how would more weapons help? Or making every tool deadly?
All those things would help murderers as much as town guards.

The majority of players are trying to play the game productively rather than grief or murder. The problem is, right now, if someone does want to grief or murder, it's far too easy for them to do so. A single murderer with the only deadly weapon in town can terrorize and kill dozens. It's really easy and I see it happen all the time. All they have to do is scrounge up the maybe 1 or 2 knives and bows around, and then it's absolute carnage.

In the game right now, having the only knife in town is kind of like having the only machine gun in town. It creates a huge power imbalance that is completely unconnected to reality, where people can always bonk the guy with a club or whatever they happenn to have lying around. I could understand if it was for fun, but there's nothing realistic or fun about that, except for the murderer!

I'm no game designer and I may be overlooking some key balancing issues. Just the same, I really dislike the "karma" system and other suggestions that punish the player for doing what the game mechanics allow them to do (although I'm partial to the idea that someone who killed a lot gets reborn with a mark of some kind, that fades with time, because that's not punishment per se, that's just propagating the info through reincarnation). I feel that allowing more deadly tools or allowing bonking a player over the head with a club, "stunning" them, changes the equation dramatically, because normal players outnumber the griefers and murderers.

pein · 2018-04-16 15:11:24

Most things you say makes no sense, they could make fake voting too, or people would just vote to see it happen

Should be a screen showing names in the family tree, with some stats, actions taken, this would update when someone is dead, could show gear. non deadly punishments like demobilization would be fair.

Last actions taken on a tile could be shown, with a combination of buttons, like shift+click, and would be stored for like 3 minutes.

OxPower · 2018-04-16 15:55:48

I've wrote this before and I'll write it again.
Killing isn't the issue!
Its everything else.

As far as I'm concerned killing is no longer a problem the way it is right now. Killer has all the weapons? Make some and hide them yourself. Whatever the killer does you can do as well. If you know how they play be on the lookout for that behavior and be prepared for it. Killing is fine right now, a month ago, killing was instant and there was no slowdown, no murder grave, nothing. Now it's fixed. Learn to deal with the killers with the tools the game provides.

Now onto everything else:
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=605
https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=884

We need a solution for everything thats not murder related. What's the point of hit points if you have no food because the griefer planted wheat, what's the point of karma if the griefer didn't murder anyone and instead brought a few bears to the town.

Repeat with me, murder isn't the problem. It's already fixed and there are tools to deal with straight up murderers. Be more conscious of your weapons and keep one safe for yourself, be it bow and arrow or a knife.

Turnipseed · 2018-04-16 18:51:15

Flintstone wrote:

Zwilnik wrote:
The problem with spawning as an eve is that unless you specifically make them barren, innocent players can be born to them as babies and share their punishment and/or be griiefed by them.
I agree with this. I think that a serial murderer should receive the Mark of Cain and spawn as a Cain in the next life, i.e. a grown male in the wilderness. To remove the mark of Cain, you have to live a whole life until 60 (which is a bit of a challenge in the wilderness, and requires that you sustain yourself buy actually playing the game as intended). If living to 60 proves too difficult, then 120 minutes of gameplay as Cain could also wipe the mark.
You would get the mark of Cain if you kill more than one person within 60 minutes of gameplay. If you kill many, you could receive more than one mark that you would have to wash away by spending several lives as Cain.

love this idea!

aldraw · 2018-04-16 19:11:12

Well borrowing from my experience with ARK, another survival game...

We can have non lethal weapons like clubs to knock people out and the ability to force feed sedatives. Or maybe the lasso could be used to immobilize players, again with a force feed mechanic to keep them alive and a mechanic that will let you drag them around and imprison them.

Only issue is in ARK you always spawn where you left off unless killed ingame while in ohol you die when logged out.

Verinon1 · 2018-04-16 19:51:18

The problem with any sort of non lethal weapon used to knock out griefers (ie a club) is that griefers themselves would use it all the time. Thus we have a whole new problem.

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#51 2018-04-16 01:11:27

Re: Jason's Murder Problem Thread

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