I hate specializations update.

Gogo · 2020-02-14 21:44:11

If he want trade and we want specializations only for luxury goods, not survival, diseases between races can help us all.

Using stuff that was used by other race will give us disease and we die. They must first sterilize it for us. They would do it, if we have for them our luxury goods to trade for (also we need to sterilize it for them).

Basically in villages and towns should be area for exchanges with stuff to sterilize.

This would change game into:

- living with our race
- surviving with our race
- trading with other races for their special stuff
- it will also prevent outsiders from stealing our shit

There are still things to consider about:

- can stuff be disease-free after some time
- what about white people, how they can fit into this

Last edited by Gogo (2020-02-14 21:53:02)

Ilka · 2020-02-14 21:54:20

Of course I also hate this update.
I don't know if there is anyone who likes her?
We are forced to live in boring cities.
And either there is nothing to do there, or if we are ginger we have to drive all our lives and look for oil.
And I would like to make a rose garden.
But when I'm a ginger I don't have time for it because I have to look for oil again or make oil.
This is so boring!

But I want to quote here a new player's post that few people noticed:

Starblazer wrote:

As a new player (having played less than 10 hours or so), I have been trying to figure out things on my own. I am discovering how to build the Newcomen stuff but had always run into this "feature" which prevented me from doing so. The main problem with this for me is that I will now either have to create new wells everytime our deep ones run out, or go on a fruitless journey looking for other people who might or might not be the skin color that you want. Also, if I ever wanted to, the Newcomen machines, hammers, pumps, rollers etc. Are now inaccessible to me. It is already difficult to learn how to create these machines and why we need them. This "feature" is making it even harder to learn how to advance into the later stages of the game. It took me like 4 lives just to figure out how to make a Newcomen pump, constantly going through the wiki and not being able to get coagulated latex because it wouldn't let me cut the rubber tree. Once I finally was able to get coagulated latex, I then realized I couldn't get the sulfur because it was in a desert, which was inaccessible. Other than a video, which took me 2 hours to find, this is the only time that this has been explained. If this stays, it needs to be made more apparent on what this is and what we need to do in order to go around it. Apparently this is supposed to encourage trading and interaction with other families, but I have never seen more than 1 family in a city. All this has done is stunt the development in all my cities making it where people don't know what to do in order to advance.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8869

New players, because of these restrictions, have no chance to learn anything more complicated than simple blacksmithing.
How many slots do you need to make an engine?
And people, is it only me who thinks that the disease idea is a nail in the OHOL casket?
Jason, don't do this.

Chestburster · 2020-02-14 21:55:30

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, I'm no fan of melting pot towns as a way to "route around" this problem.
Though I haven't see that myself so much. It's not like every town has all three "necessary" skin tones represented.

Instead, I've seen problems that need to be solved through cleverness and determination, when before, there weren't really any such problems.
Having all three live in the same town is at least more interesting and presents more challenges than one know-it-all-player doing everything by themselves to keep the village going. At least now, there has to be some coordination and cooperation.

Here's what I want:
Every life, you should see an obvious problem that needs solving in your village, and not be quite sure how to solve it. And maybe, sometimes, even if you play perfectly, your attempt at a solution to the problem doesn't work out.
Think of it like an emergent quest system. But a quest system with no NPCs. Think of a social puzzle game, but where the "pieces" of the puzzle are intelligent entities with their own individual motivations.

I'm not saying the game is there yet, but that's where I'm trying to go.

Cramming three different skin tones together in one town is a bit of cheat toward solving the social puzzle.
But even that is not that easy to accomplish, right? You might want to attract other families to live in your town, but that doesn't mean they will come. It's a solution that is implemented across many generations, and not just something that one very competent player can do by themselves.

I think a big problem with it is how pretty much everyone is welcome in anyones town. The benefits for another family living in your town outweigh any possible detriments it may have. No one puts up property fences and guards the entrances anymore, and anyone is pretty much welcome in any town. I really liked the whole hostility and distrust to outsiders thing we had going, and I kind of miss it. I'm not sure if that is the direction you're taking the game though, so lemme know.

I've been sort of wondering if it might be better to tie specializations to something else besides families. Maybe we can tie them to the towns themselves in someway. Like maybe building your town around a certain resource could be what gives you access to that resource. I'm not sure what the best way to implement that would be though.

Last edited by Chestburster (2020-02-14 21:56:10)

Mekkie · 2020-02-15 02:10:44

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, the point was trade, and people routed around it by living together.

If you wanted people to trade, then why did you make it so we can't talk to anyone outside our family?

Chestburster · 2020-02-15 13:58:28

Mekkie wrote:

jasonrohrer wrote:
Well, the point was trade, and people routed around it by living together.
If you wanted people to trade, then why did you make it so we can't talk to anyone outside our family?

Just because the goal is to have people trade doesn't mean there wouldn't be any challenges in doing so.

Communication is still possible with distant town members in that you can either have a brown or blonde haired families translate, write out notes, or learn what certain words mean.

Honestly I think the whole thing with learning what certain words mean is really cool and unique and I'd really like to see all the focus put into improving that aspect. I've already had some really interesting scenarios in the past with learning to communicate with someone but you don't really get past learning basics like "hello" and such before the much better alternatives are used.

I kind of want to see language learning become the only way to be able to communicate normally with people but we'd have to implement game mechanics that automate parts of it instead of just having to manually type out the foreign words ourselves.

I thought about how maybe something could be added like having people be able to create and add on to translation keys that can be posted and learned from. You could then have an option to switch your speech over to the language learned and any keyed words you learned will be automatically translated.

Generations could be spent cataloging what certain words mean, becoming much easier as we learn enough words to move past picking things up and saying what it is to actually knowing enough to ask them what they call certain things. Eventually communicating with that family really wouldn't be much different than communicating with your own. At least until someone said a word that hardly ever gets said and you get an opportunity to be the first one to add that one to the collection.

Last edited by Chestburster (2020-02-15 14:03:19)

petaldancing · 2020-02-15 21:44:10

DiscardedSlinky wrote:

Yep I absolutely hate it too. It's the most anti-fun thing that's ever been in the game. I think it's worse than the rift. There was SO many better ways to impliment it, like:
Make it buffs instead of restrictions
Make items that aren't COMPLETELY vital be restricted per race.
DON'T HAVE US FUCKING DROP STUFF. WHAT LOGIC IS THAT
Give us a way to be able to learn and enter the biomes

It makes me so upset. This whole torn seal shit is TRASH. It basically forces everyone to live in giant bell towns. Trade?? HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO TRADE. We need 9999 tires just to survive, so trading a single cart full doesn't do ANYTHING. ALSO WE CAN'T TALK TO EACH OTHER. It's the most backwards logic. Fucking laziness. If you want us to trade impliment a system for it. If you don't want us climbing the tech tree so fast maybe make some new tech.

Everyone is so bored in giant megacities because that's all we can live in now. Why even try making a new town when you need every single race there to make it a few hours? Oh but you can go get tires from the mega city and bring them back. OR you can just live in the mega city with supplies constantly coming in.

Jason doesn't play. He has no idea what an absolute headache this all is. Yet he dares to make a thread talking about nerfing oil again. It takes me and my friend 2-3 lives to get oil as it is right now. That's with a lot of rubber tires at the ready. If we had to beg different races to go get the supplies for rubber it would take 5. So many people do not understand what a knife and bucket mean when you put it next to them. I can't talk to them, so I just need to keep trying it with every brown person I see. Why don't I use notes? That is 2 tool slots down the fucking drain. If I'm trying to make oil I need every single one of them just to get ready for it. Making pipes is my entire slot inventory. Even after you get everything to be ready you have to be born Ginger so say goodbye to your tool slots from all the /dieing you have to do between a few lives. I'm so fucking mad about it. I can't contain it.

I've stopped playing as much as I use to because I hate feeling useless. Being born black in a town that needs brown people or ginger people just breaks me. Do I die and try to come back to help them? If I do I'm hurting myself and my score to try to help, but they need me. I hate it.

Sorry this is such a long rant. I really hate being restricted from doing things for BULLSHIT reasons. I think you're lazy Jason. You want us to trade but pull this half thought out idea and force us to try to adapt. Make a system for trade and maybe we'll start doing it. The way things are now trade is impossible. We're just going to live together and steal and that should've been obvious to you if you thought this out more. I love this game and I love this community but you make loving it extremely hard sometimes. Sorry for being mean. This frustration is real.

Edit: just thought of more stuff while I was seething in anger.
HOW are we suppose to trade when most races don't have access to horses? We fucking walk around with a cart and a note and hope we run into someone? No. You're lucky most of the playerbase doesn't play vanilla because without mods this game would have crashed and burned a while ago. Trying to find another town without a bell is a monumental task. Most of the towns are completely dead when you get there, and even when you find their town you can't speak to them. You just hope you have kids there so their lives will be easier than yours. You can leave a map or a waystones, but sometimes it's thousands of meters away and there's a chance no one will ever go.

We're resilient players, but why should we have to be? Why do you punish the vets for being good at the game? I don't want to have to fix problems every single time I play. Sometimes I just want to make some yum foods and chill. Why can't we just have fun? Why does everything have to be tedious and annoying? The majority of the playerbase can't fix the big problems. They have no idea how to make an engine or make rubber. You teach one, which takes your entire life, and there's still a hundred more players that don't know what to do.
Reeeeeee

TELL EM SLINKY!! i've never agreed with a post more than this right here holy shit

this is exactly how i feel, and based off of jason's responses it looks like our opinions don't matter. it's become clear that jason is so stubborn that the game's playerbase has absolutely no say in his decisions. it doesn't matter that 99.9% of the players hate this feature, he's going to stay in his little bubble where all his ideas are perfect and everyone who disagrees is just "mad that they can't solo oil" LMAO

i think slinky is especially right about the fact that jason doesn't play this game. straight up. he's so incredibly disconnected from his playerbase it's actually remarkable tbh... i've never seen a solo dev this stubborn before, it's genuinely like talking to a brick wall. an entire thread of polite suggestions and feedback and complaints, and he ignores all of it to talk about how diseases are the solution. everything we say just goes through the other ear, huh? take away mod capabilities and watch this game tank all the way down to 0 players per day, cause that's the only thing keeping this game from dying.

fug · 2020-02-15 21:58:18

My last four lives/last four hours of play can be described in four words.

Afk'd in a hut.

Every time male, every time a color I didn't want to play (black/white x2). Rather just sit in the cuck shed for the entire life and sip milk or berries and play league than be a color I don't like.

Wrong race = afking instead of playing the game as otherwise there's a punishment for dying. Very fun and engaging gameplay.

Léonard · 2020-02-16 00:59:06

Man I miss the game the way it was when I bought it.
It was prime OHOL. No bullshit.
It had reached its peak.

Had so much fun on this game.

eajorstad · 2020-02-16 16:55:07

I can tell you one thing. I will not be playing more of this game until I can see Jason actually taking input from his players (and not dumb features like lineages... Actual input and critique of EXISTING CONTENT).

If you seriously have your head so far up your ass you won't listen to the people that dedicate several hours per day playing with this game... why would I even bother playing?

Stop trying to create more ways to limit players. Stop introducing more mechanics until you fix what you currently have. Stop punishing new and moderately experienced players for trying to learn the game.

I have a few hundred hours on this game and yet still don't know how to do more advanced smithing. Why? Because when I'm born I end up either being female and useless after 14 yes old (worrying about how my dumb kids are affecting my future abilities to contribute to the game)... Or I'm a guy who has a free tool slot someone else needs, so I end up picking up random tools to get one specific job done for someone else. Waste of a life when I wanted to feed the town or build new structures.

TLDR: no matter where you're born, the game in it's current state all but guarantees a useless life. New players can't learn stuff and vets rarely accomplish anything meaningful

Last edited by eajorstad (2020-02-16 16:56:08)

Booklat1 · 2020-02-16 17:25:17

Legs wrote:

These shoehorned mechanics are rapidly approaching a point where they no longer fit the base game. It's more or less been there since the tool slot update, family specialization, etc. Systems that were never meant to be a part of the game but were awkwardly attached after the fact and really don't work. They're becoming increasingly more broken with every update. I understand the intent but it's something to direct into a new game because it clearly doesn't work here.

Oh dear, it has been happening since long before that, probably around when property fences were added.

The game was simple, a very material world that you interacted with and with the other people in it. You all had to eat and that's all that mattered for a long part of the gameplay loop.

Its hard to keep giving us challenges that we don't simply troubleshoot through in a few days and find a solution for. Resource based challenges suffer from overgrindyness, rng being too forgiving or too cruel, and the fact the we optimize new content pretty fast compared to how fast Jason can add it.

But fuck me if I want to play a game that forces a solution to this problem that involves segregating races based on their skin colour and still failling at doing so because players still prefer to make multiethnic civs.

Honestly, I don't even know how does Jason have the mind fortitude to keep pushing the absolutely hated ideas (some, like the rift, I actually appreciated as an experiment). This one though, I hardly see it being worth the stress.

pein · 2020-02-16 17:57:20

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, I'm no fan of melting pot towns as a way to "route around" this problem.
Though I haven't see that myself so much. It's not like every town has all three "necessary" skin tones represented.

Instead, I've seen problems that need to be solved through cleverness and determination, when before, there weren't really any such problems.
Having all three live in the same town is at least more interesting and presents more challenges than one know-it-all-player doing everything by themselves to keep the village going. At least now, there has to be some coordination and cooperation.

Here's what I want:
Every life, you should see an obvious problem that needs solving in your village, and not be quite sure how to solve it. And maybe, sometimes, even if you play perfectly, your attempt at a solution to the problem doesn't work out.
Think of it like an emergent quest system. But a quest system with no NPCs. Think of a social puzzle game, but where the "pieces" of the puzzle are intelligent entities with their own individual motivations.

I'm not saying the game is there yet, but that's where I'm trying to go.

Cramming three different skin tones together in one town is a bit of cheat toward solving the social puzzle.
But even that is not that easy to accomplish, right? You might want to attract other families to live in your town, but that doesn't mean they will come. It's a solution that is implemented across many generations and not just something that one very competent player can do by themselves.

yeah but specializations arent creating problems to solve, more like problems you can't do much about
like suiciding to get into other family is easier than work around it

ideal puzzles are where there is a solution but might be hard to find

not ideal ones are like we got now:
-too many bushes, you need water to dig out bushes to spare on water long term but that would take away from food
-need to make engine but need water to make it, you need engine cause you don't have water
-the town needs rubber but people are too far
-the town has oil pumpjack made but no one can enter the ice

also, the water became more expensive, I calculated the cost of tilling twice or once, and surprisingly tilling twice costs less water
this was when it was possible, but the problem is the same
I calculated the iron vs water price from the kerosene use
still, it uses less water to use the tools heavily and make less soil than to work more on compost and spare tools

which was kinda always backwards, veterans did a lot of work to save on tools, make more soil, kinda the only activity which creates something out of nothing, I mean there is some input but the output was more, right now compost making doesn't even worth it, all things considered, uses a lot of water and needs extra water to use up the soil
yes the issue is that we had shittons of water at the start so digging bushes wasn't an issue, or making compost was more of a shovel and soil issue, not a water issue, but right now things changed and compost is like 30% more expensive than before

questing could be good if you can swap over resources to other types
that would mean creating excess would be a good thing
like making a lot of pies for quest which would give water
but for the quest to be smart you either need player input or an algorithm based o village needs
and for that, the items together should be considered as a group
so some sort of areas, zones or something

also could make cities worth a bit more
right now everything is samey
the cities should be like there is always something to do, extend, maxing out would take months, specializing on one thing could be possible, making industry, a complete chain of resources going through it to make something
adapting to environment should be more important, got many trees? wood industry, many farmable places? food
many ores? tools

it would require some other mechanics on top of current, you cannot make too many variations with the current things

the farming game could be different, less farmable tiles, maybe restrict it a bit or require more work to make tiles farmable, for example indoors farming would have more yield but would need farming pots, special tiles, irrigation, pipes
seasons or weather conditions to make adaptation more important

water game: more ways to make water, convert, maybe dirty water and cleaning it would require a lot of work at the start, later would be the main tech to recycle
fuel from water to make cars more viable
plastic/polymers from fuel and water, oil

the iron game: more work to mine out iron ore, and to convert to usable iron
more items to sink iron into, not just tools but like storage and energy?
huge chunks of mountains which block movement at first but can be removed over time
a lot of waste products to manage, later tech could allow using those waste materials

energy tech, or at least windmills, maybe grain should be harder to make it into flour but all cooked food would be way better and wouldn't spoil
spoiling food and ways to prevent it

rivers could be a strategical element, doesn't have to be interactive, just blocking element, some access points to cross it, maybe fish tiles like in the age of empires, we cant sail that's fine

hygiene could be a thing, washing clothes for moms

the products the citizens make should be sold on the market. it could be a world market with a tiny bit of AI influence, first, all materials would start on a preset value, then over time the things that are common, become cheaper

money gained this way could be spent on upgrades, area of effect bonuses, family buffs

for that to work, would actually need something that defines an area, so either make sectors of the map, which would require changes to eve play, like selecting a well and that's free, and 20x20 around it, but then extending cost money, that way territories become more valuable and work required to extend

the spring posts could give other resources since they won't give water, but clay or flat rock could be produced over time with upgrades

the resources should require more work to convert into usable products and massive requirements for upgrades so people can work for higher work

probably travel and transport rehaul

Spoonwood · 2020-02-17 01:48:48

DestinyCall wrote:

Why do you ignore our suffering, Jason?

Perhaps, the game is built to induce more suffering than anything else in the first place. Jason wants players born almost always as babies where they forcefully get thrown to the ground and cry, and wouldn't babies be suffering even more than real-world babies in some imagined future? Their mothers had no choice in the matter, and no way to say 'no' to such while remaining alive in game (no birth control... no necessity of male-female interaction for a child to come around), which for humans living in the future would be painful (forced reproduction "culture" is painful). Male characters aren't given any sort of special ways to enjoy playing as male and no special joys for being an uncle... let alone the possibility of fatherhood. They get to endure the pain of not having a way to meaningfully contribute to their families as a result of their sex, getting reduced to the role of mere providers. Instead of some sort of choice screen, mothers got expected to endure through baby bones of sudden infant deaths. When a player lives to sixty it's not "you survived" as if one succeeded in living to old age or something more neutral, but instead "you died" implying that YOU should think of your character's death or possibly your own death. Do you think that thinking of such death is supposed to be anything but painful?

For a while at least, instead of the game getting designed to enhance single player situations so that they strike people as more interesting, the game has been designed so that interpersonal interactions matter most. When interpersonal interactions matter most, or at least to an extreme degree, suffering of individuals doesn't matter so much if at all, and people in solitary situations get expected to feel the pain and boredom of loneliness, not the freedom of being alone. Instead of players having a quick and easy and painless way to end their lives, they come as expected to endure something like awful sounds of a rather loud lute pinging their ears repeatedly as they starve, or the blood of having an open wound. Instead of banning players who play to harass others or destroy what others have built to annoy them, players get expected to endure the pain of having try to build walls or fences to keep them out (which isn't compatible with maximizing inter-player interactions) or the pain or having to deal with such people on the loose.

jasonrohrer wrote:

I'm still thinking about ways to force them apart more.

So that those who think about the situation of their town will feel the pain that their village is under threat of losing control on living there.

jasonrohrer wrote:

There is also specialization within a family due to tool slots, so one person in the village simply can't do everything.

So that players will feel the pain of needing others.

Jason even said that tool slots in particular were designed to induce pain a while back in this thread: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8181, with Jason's usual manner of believing that he knows what players want better than they do.

Why would Jason not ignore the negative experiences of players when there exist many threads where he repeatedly makes assertions that he knows the emotions of players better than they do, and when he insists that his game is good with foundations that induce more pain/dismay/dislike than necessary in the first place?

And why do you still expect him to change?

Saolin · 2020-02-17 22:51:52

fug wrote:

The problem isn't that you removed a solo players ability to do a needed tech grind but you removed a bunch of fun gameplay options without putting something to fill the gap.

Racial specialization should be about improving someone's ability to do something instead of being a lock no one can break.
Gingers should be good at getting oil because they have natural hot springs they can (only) use to fire the oil rig which makes doing oil easier for them. Give them breedable worms so they fish better, woolier sheep so they can be better tailors or shrimp catchers. If you want to be fancy let them make premium ice creams.
Blacks get extra horse types and horse breeding. Put normal ass horses elsewhere and give them faster or strong, or just aesthetically pleasing horses. Make their alum longer lasting, let their paints be better, make their trees free to cut so they can even specialize as hot weather lumberjacks.
Tans should have even more food recipes to make them unique. Cakes, banana nut bread, different fruit trees, more fruit trees! Definitely give them a way to kill mosquitoes as keeping them around in a livable area is asking for trouble. Maybe give them a way to make cooling clothing such as palm leaf skirts, coconut bras, or even fancy fruit hats. There's endless fun ideas to throw out for each and every race.

Cutting out the fun is the problem of the racial specialization update not just nerfing how fast players can climb the tech tree.

StrongForce wrote:

It would be nice if there was a hard way for every race to klimb the techtree.
And the easy way if all work together.

These are the type of ideas that could make racial specialization fun.

There are too many times playing after the current racial specialization update where lives feel completely pointless, or just boring, and this update is the reason why.

It's exasperating living in a town that needs something only another race can provide. It feels desperate and pointless, and it trivializes all other aspects of the game when the only thing that matters becomes finding a knowledgeable player from the necessary skin tone.

It puts players in a position where entire lives are spent just wandering around looking for the right skin tone to invite back or migrate too. It's tedious and uninteresting.

It forces players back to the same big towns over and over again which gets boring and repetitive, with either the same problems or no immediate need for anything.

Crafting some recipes became less interesting because now you can just harvest and dump resources in town rather than actually being able to make something.

Travelling outside of town feels like walking in a maze due to biome restrictions.

Overall a lot more in-game time feels wasted on either tedious or nearly hopeless endeavors. I want to help build up my village and care for my kids, not try to figure out a way through the maze of an inhospitable biome to probably fail to find the race I'm looking for anyway.

...and then back to that huge town that doesn't need anything again.

Edit: forgive me if I seem out of touch, I haven't played since November - because of this update.

Last edited by Saolin (2020-02-17 23:06:27)

PeachyCheech · 2020-02-18 13:48:29

I've played for a couple of days worth of lives now, and every life I attempt to dedicate that life to learning at least one new skill. What I want to learn in a certain life may not happen due to the stage of civilization the family is in and what is needed to be done to help progress the area. I've learned most of the basics and am ready to learn more intermediate things like pumps, and I've recently realized my limitations based on whatever race I'm born to and it really sucks. I've spawned in promising villages that were on the verge of extinction, all because they're missing rubber and the people who go looking for a bell town never come back. I get making it a struggle, but humanity has been to nearly every place on earth, their race never mattered, it doesn't make sense to completely restrict people from getting somewhere due to being the wrong race.

Making it harder for some races to enter X biome makes much more sense. Require they have special clothes, food, tech, whatever, but stopping players and from progressing dead in their tracks just ruins a lot of the fun. Wasting my life because I screw something up is one thing, wasting my life because it's impossible to progress further is infuriating. I really do love this game and its concept, it would be great to see more custom servers pop up (and stay up) that keep with an updated tech tree but removes these game stopping features.

fug · 2020-02-18 14:53:36

PeachyCheech wrote:

I've played for a couple of days worth of lives now, and every life I attempt to dedicate that life to learning at least one new skill. What I want to learn in a certain life may not happen due to the stage of civilization the family is in and what is needed to be done to help progress the area. I've learned most of the basics and am ready to learn more intermediate things like pumps, and I've recently realized my limitations based on whatever race I'm born to and it really sucks. I've spawned in promising villages that were on the verge of extinction, all because they're missing rubber and the people who go looking for a bell town never come back. I get making it a struggle, but humanity has been to nearly every place on earth, their race never mattered, it doesn't make sense to completely restrict people from getting somewhere due to being the wrong race.
Making it harder for some races to enter X biome makes much more sense. Require they have special clothes, food, tech, whatever, but stopping players and from progressing dead in their tracks just ruins a lot of the fun. Wasting my life because I screw something up is one thing, wasting my life because it's impossible to progress further is infuriating. I really do love this game and its concept, it would be great to see more custom servers pop up (and stay up) that keep with an updated tech tree but removes these game stopping features.

I feel for you not getting to experience the game at its peak.

No tool slots meant you could learn (and teach) at your own pace. Sure someone teaching real high tech stuff in game was low but it did occur at times.

Racial restrictions are terrible because as others have stated you end up getting stuck wandering the map for someone who might not even be close. Towns that had hours of work put in are abandoned for the same big cities and splitting just ends up being suicide.

Hoping Jason eventually realizes he is just taking fun away from the game instead of adding to the mix.

Dodge · 2020-02-18 16:03:09

Main issue with that update is relying on gingers making bell towers so races can find each other, the rest of complaints is just REEEEE'ing tbh, you can ask a "south-american" to go in the jungle to get latex and palm kernels really not a big deal (especially since it's the point of the update)

Yes it ends up being multi racial melting pot big towns but that's a separate issue caused by the lack of challenging survival, food everywhere so you can just share everything and not care about who has what hence ressources have no value.

Potjeh · 2020-02-18 17:58:38

There's no way trade can work within the one hour premise of the game. I tried once, I was in a blonde town that ran out of water and had newcomen pump but no tires. I waited till 15 so I can ride, then went searching for another town and filled up the cart with ropes along the way. I found a town with tires at like 35, and then I spent 15 years asking everyone in town if I can trade my ropes for some tires. I either got ignored or got "IDK, ask someone else" as response, because the tires they had were probably from a previous generation and nobody felt like they were theirs to trade. Running out of time, I decided that it's probably a fair trade on my own so I just dropped off my ropes and grabbed two tires without getting an OK from any of the town's inhabitants, then I got back to my own town just in time to do two rounds of water pumping before I died.

See, the problem is that no matter how much LARPy leadership stuff is implemented, one hour is simply not enough time to establish meaningful relationships with people and have a natural leadership hierarchy emerge, so there's never going to be anyone around who feels authorized to trade. And that one hour is being generous, for majority of people in your town you'll get a lot less time to interact with, given that they'll be either older or younger than you. Plus the one hour life limit really disincentivizes wasting your time on talking, so building relationships with townmates is even harder.

So yeah, I think this silly notion of trade should be dropped entirely.

testo · 2020-02-18 18:09:41

Potjeh wrote:

There's no way trade can work within the one hour premise of the game. I tried once, I was in a blonde town that ran out of water and had newcomen pump but no tires. I waited till 15 so I can ride, then went searching for another town and filled up the cart with ropes along the way. I found a town with tires at like 35, and then I spent 15 years asking everyone in town if I can trade my ropes for some tires. I either got ignored or got "IDK, ask someone else" as response, because the tires they had were probably from a previous generation and nobody felt like they were theirs to trade. Running out of time, I decided that it's probably a fair trade on my own so I just dropped off my ropes and grabbed two tires without getting an OK from any of the town's inhabitants, then I got back to my own town just in time to do two rounds of water pumping before I died.
See, the problem is that no matter how much LARPy leadership stuff is implemented, one hour is simply not enough time to establish meaningful relationships with people and have a natural leadership hierarchy emerge, so there's never going to be anyone around who feels authorized to trade. And that one hour is being generous, for majority of people in your town you'll get a lot less time to interact with, given that they'll be either older or younger than you. Plus the one hour life limit really disincentivizes wasting your time on talking, so building relationships with townmates is even harder.
So yeah, I think this silly notion of trade should be dropped entirely.

I agree with almost everything you wrote. However, I still think trade can be possible if a proper game system is implemented instead of waiting for it to magically arise from the players interactions.

Dodge · 2020-02-18 18:23:45

Of course they are ignoring you since they dont need anything, if they where on the verge of dying or all their ressources running low and you come with something that could either save them or help their situation they would give you full attention.

But right now you either have an overabundance or your village failed and is dead, no in between where ressources are low but still manageable and you have an incentive to make it better for future generations and then it's up to them to either maintain this level or go up.

Dantox · 2020-02-18 18:24:37

At this rate the game is becoming more frustation than fun. Havent really played on a while because of this reason.

DestinyCall · 2020-02-18 19:19:42

Dodge wrote:

Of course they are ignoring you since they dont need anything, if they where on the verge of dying or all their ressources running low and you come with something that could either save them or help their situation they would give you full attention.
But right now you either have an overabundance or your village failed and is dead, no in between where ressources are low but still manageable and you have an incentive to make it better for future generations and then it's up to them to either maintain this level or go up.

You always need more ropes. I don't really think that was the problem.

Dodge · 2020-02-18 19:31:18

DestinyCall wrote:

Dodge wrote:
Of course they are ignoring you since they dont need anything, if they where on the verge of dying or all their ressources running low and you come with something that could either save them or help their situation they would give you full attention.
But right now you either have an overabundance or your village failed and is dead, no in between where ressources are low but still manageable and you have an incentive to make it better for future generations and then it's up to them to either maintain this level or go up.
You always need more ropes. I don't really think that was the problem.

There's needing and needing they werent looking for those ropes like it was something valuable that would help them survive or avoid their family to die of starvation, the village already has 20 boxes, 10 carts, stacks of buckets and a bunch of horses a few measily ropes are laughable.

Léonard · 2020-02-18 20:21:47

Yes make the game harder again. It'll definitely bring the fun back!

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