Scrap the Scrap Engine

Cogito · 2020-04-03 01:18:35

The idea to be able to recover metal from an engine led to the Scrap Engine https://edge.onetech.info/3967-Scrap-Engine

Unfortunately, as implemented, it is *far* too easy to destroy a lot of work.

To destroy countless (well I haven't counted it) uses of the kiln and multipurpose newcommen, all you have to do it write on a box, stick an engine in it, and hit it with a hammer.

Please don't let this into the game.

Either make it far harder or, my preference, allow disassembly of the engine.

Hit the engine with a hammer to go one step down this tree https://edge.onetech.info/2365-Diesel-Engine/tech-tree

DestinyCall · 2020-04-03 01:22:25

Yikes...

pein · 2020-04-03 02:15:52

it reminds me when we sold the wine and we drink all the money...

minth · 2020-04-03 03:30:40

Where is it idea come from?
The engine is the highest-tech item in the game why would you ever want to scrap that?

Cogito · 2020-04-03 03:37:02

minth wrote:

Where is it idea come from?
The engine is the highest-tech item in the game why would you ever want to scrap that?

The idea was posted at https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLifeData7/issues/693

It makes sense in some ways - if all you have is a diesel engine but you need something else, what do you do?

With the reworked iron it seems like the only legitimate time might be if you are an eve or something and stumble upon an engine you can't use.

Even then, you probably want to keep a hold of it because it is so useful.

Perhaps people go crazy making engines and that becomes an iron sink, locking up the iron so it can't be used for something else? That seems so unlikely though.

pein · 2020-04-03 04:18:20

should be way harder or at least same effort to ruin things
that goes for plastered walls too

Dodge · 2020-04-03 05:13:10

Pretty bad idea to be able to scrap a whole engine so easily plus now you can remove an engine from a well, so basically all a griefer has to do is put a box next to the well, write on it with a pencil, take the engine put in box hammer it, done...

DestinyCall · 2020-04-03 15:59:25

Is this change live yet? I've noticed engines have been going missing lately.

fug · 2020-04-03 16:01:43

DestinyCall wrote:

Is this change live yet? I've noticed engines have been going missing lately.

Yeah, I know of one town that had its engine scrapped then rebuilt. Good news is there's plenty of iron to make up for it

jasonrohrer · 2020-04-03 19:50:18

An engine is your town's most valuable, hard-won, and singular possession.

I suggest leaving it out in the open and unguarded at all times.

On the one hand, you plead for freedom and the removal of restrictions. On the other hand, you beg for me to reimpose restrictions as soon as I remove them. The freedom to get the steel back out of an engine is simply too dangerous to allow.

Also, a bug slipped into that content, only giving you 16 steel back instead of 18. I will fix that now, and it will go live later.

Twisted · 2020-04-03 20:05:14

jasonrohrer wrote:

On the one hand, you plead for freedom and the removal of restrictions. On the other hand, you beg for me to reimpose restrictions as soon as I remove them. The freedom to get the steel back out of an engine is simply too dangerous to allow.

Come on Jason, you're better than this.

pein · 2020-04-03 20:06:00

the issue is that is way too fast to ruin it compared to making it

you empower griefers all the time for the sake of the meme mechanics you try to force

at least make it harder so it involves a minimal iq and a bit of time to take it apart

Coconut Fruit · 2020-04-03 20:06:32

"You don't want restrictions? Fine, I will let you scrap engines with one hammer swing"

Dodge · 2020-04-03 20:06:56

The freedom to destroy something that took hours to make in a couple of seconds...

Anyway why would someone from your own village destroy the engine that gives water and thus food to it's own village?

See how there is a thematic issue here. It doesn't make sense.

You cant expect players to find normal to have to protect something against their own family.

You should guard the engine from your own son because??? he's secretly a sociopath??? that's the logic here???

Protect it from other families sure that could be achieved at some point but then it's the village that would be fenced and not the diesel pump, that would imply that your own family members want to destroy your village, doesn't make sense.

fug · 2020-04-03 20:09:25

????

Ahh yes, because the freedom to play the game however you want is the same as adding a function that is used solely to grief. This might make sense if you didn't add the ability to just chuck the towns water source directly into a box and smash it by yourself but that's not how things went.

This is the same issue as griefing has always had. The guy who is going to smash your diesel engine isn't going to be the needy town next door but some random person in your lineage smashing it when population drops.

Ilka · 2020-04-03 21:14:07

It's amazing what "patches" Jason chooses for implementation.
It is as if he had 10 chairs to choose from and always chose the lame one to sit on.
No Eve who knows the game a bit will want to disassemble the engine, even if she needs a shovel now.
I will say more - I do not like the easy way to remove the engine.
Why removing the fence requires some magical intervention involving a very old person, and all you have to do to steal the engine is drive up to the well and load the engine on the cart.
This action lasts a second.
I've already seen three engine thefts from a town full of people.
And please don't write that we need city fences.
One of the people who stole the engine was uncle griefer.
This guy hid the engine in his own "estate" and waited for someone to come in to close the gate and starve this person.
It's just too easy.
Could they two people from family decide to dismantle?
Choosing a command just like when you decided to kill someone?
Let this even apply only to engines mounted on the family well.

Keyin · 2020-04-03 21:43:24

Destroying an engine is easier than engineering one, no?

Elsayal · 2020-04-03 21:43:44

Keyin wrote:

Destroying an engine is easier than engineering one, no?

yes

DestinyCall · 2020-04-03 21:44:07

Or add elder takedown notice equivalent requirement, so you need at least one old dude to agree that it makes sense to destroy a whole engine.

pein · 2020-04-03 21:48:57

also, why do we have that shit leadership if has no function? a person with 5 followers could decide to disassemble it, that's fair

Coconut Fruit · 2020-04-03 22:03:48

pein wrote:

also, why do we have that shit leadership if has no function? a person with 5 followers could decide to disassemble it, that's fair

People rarery follow other people... Your kids follow you automatically tho. It would feel weird that only women can disassemble engines.

I would be fine with a simple solution: 2 people and 2 hammers required to scrap an engine. First person that uses hammer gets stuck for 2 seconds(can't drop hammer), and then another person needs to hammer it too in that time.

pein · 2020-04-03 22:23:03

what's the point in upgrading for hours then downgrading in one step? this is so useless
if you need oil then you don't ruin your engine for it
Newcomen can't even use steel just iron and making tools from a scrap engine makes no sense for a city without water

it made sense to use your engine for oil in the rift then install it on a well, was a good mechanic which made good choices matter
but in this case I would be fine with both engines stuck on well and mine

also, I thought the 1 berry regrowth per bush was a feature, It's overpowered to have 6 slowly regrowing but 1 berry can help to get out of town when it has no food, without any food and water cities just collapse with everyone inside them

Spoonwood · 2020-04-03 22:26:38

jasonrohrer wrote:

On the one hand, you plead for freedom and the removal of restrictions. On the other hand, you beg for me to reimpose restrictions as soon as I remove them.

And here we have another falsehood. Jason did NOT make it so that players could do fewer things with this change, and thereby restrict them. He did not remove a restriction. What Jason did was to make a certain sequence of simple player actions possible to have a result in an engine getting scrapped. But what sort of enabling of players did Jason make possible? His change made it easier to destroy, while what got created clearly came as more difficult and required more resources to effect.

And seriously how honest is it of Jason to pop in here and ignore that the original post got posted before the update went live? And why does Twisted insist that

Twisted wrote:

Come on Jason, you're better than this.

when it's very well possible that he is *that* bad. After all, the game is not set up to bias a player's character to survival. It's set up so that the player's character dies. There is NO way for families to evolve so that they have descendants that go on living. There is only collective death in the end. The game is supposed to be a vision of humanity's future, and one of parenting, but it's model of humanity is so poor that female characters have rarely had the opportunity to opt out of becoming a parent, and when no male character has ever become a parent.

And his trailer on steam still to this day advertises "dozens of new craftable objects added every week."

This week had how many craftable objects added again?

And there exist more than a few weeks where dozens of new craftable objects were not added.

sigmen4020 · 2020-04-03 22:56:37

DestinyCall wrote:

Or add elder takedown notice equivalent requirement, so you need at least one old dude to agree that it makes sense to destroy a whole engine.

This would at least make sense, since scrapping an engine isn’t something people should just be able to do on a whim. Also the fact that you only get scrap steel instead of steel bars makes this absolutely terrible.

Griefer: removes the engine from the well. Makes a scrap box. Scraps the towns only engine, which undoes lifetimes of work in just a few minutes.

Engineer: Has to rebuild the engine from scratch now since the griefer just scrapped the towns only engine. Not only that, but before he can begin making engine parts he has to reforge all the steel scrap into steel bars before he can start. All this work will most likely take more than half a lifetime.

So scrapping an engine takes about a minute, but rebuilding said engine takes at least 30 minutes. Seems very fair and balanced.

sigmen4020 · 2020-04-03 23:09:27

I don’t think that a scrap box is an inherently bad idea mind you, but the way it’s being implemented here is not great. If you gain the ability to scrap an engine it just absolutely shouldn’t be this easy.

The scrap box could potentially be a good way to fix some of the broken scrap recipes that give you back one scrap rather than the actual amount of steel the scrapped item is worth. Example: how about you make the Diesel piston head scrappable in a scrap box for 6 scrap steel instead in a scrap bowl to only get 1 scrap steel back?

https://edge.onetech.info/2376-Diesel-Piston-Head

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2020-04-03 23:10:15)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-04-03 01:18:35

Scrap the Scrap Engine

#2 2020-04-03 01:22:25

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#3 2020-04-03 02:15:52

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#4 2020-04-03 03:30:40

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#5 2020-04-03 03:37:02

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#6 2020-04-03 04:18:20

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#7 2020-04-03 05:13:10

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#8 2020-04-03 15:59:25

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#9 2020-04-03 16:01:43

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#10 2020-04-03 19:50:18

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#11 2020-04-03 20:05:14

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#12 2020-04-03 20:06:00

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#13 2020-04-03 20:06:32

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#14 2020-04-03 20:06:56

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#15 2020-04-03 20:09:25

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#16 2020-04-03 21:14:07

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#17 2020-04-03 21:43:24

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#18 2020-04-03 21:43:44

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#19 2020-04-03 21:44:07

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#20 2020-04-03 21:48:57

Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#21 2020-04-03 22:03:48

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#22 2020-04-03 22:23:03

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#23 2020-04-03 22:26:38

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#24 2020-04-03 22:56:37

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#25 2020-04-03 23:09:27

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