Scrap the Scrap Engine

Amon · 2020-04-04 00:05:43

Keyin wrote:

Destroying an engine is easier than engineering one, no?

Destroying, yes.

But if you plan to disassemble anything, especially for the purpose of recycling it... no.
No.
I've disassembled scrap computers and printers before for recycling, repurposing parts and to trash the rest. It's not an easy two-step process.

And you certainly shouldn't be able to just hammer it off and it's 'done'.
Maybe if you disassembled it first and then scrap each piece, then you put in enough time worth to even compare.
Plus you'd get your rubber belt back.

Last edited by Amon (2020-04-04 00:07:45)

Cogito · 2020-04-04 01:47:33

jasonrohrer wrote:

An engine is your town's most valuable, hard-won, and singular possession.

Agreed!!

jasonrohrer wrote:

I suggest leaving it out in the open and unguarded at all times.

The core issue here is a break in the implicit contract between a game's world and it's players: consistency.

There are two kinds of consistency implied in a game world, and it's ok to break them at different times.
- 'physics' acts the same now as it always has
- 'physics' acts the same on all objects

The first gets broken every time there is an update to game mechanics, and that's perfectly ok, but it takes a while before everyone realises that the world is different to what it was before. It takes time for the meta to change, and it seems like many players have no idea what changes have come into the game recently, except through some kind of social osmosis.

The second is a bigger issue. It's *weird* that diesel engines can just be removed and destroyed when, for example, wells and waystones can't. It's weird when some things can stack and others can't (thank you for fixing this!!), weird that some things can be disassembled and others can't.

Now for many reasons it's fine for these inconsistencies, especially for game balance reasons, but this one feels really incongruous.

I do look forward to the meta including an engine guard, though as others have mentioned it's hard to guard against your own family.

jasonrohrer wrote:

On the one hand, you plead for freedom and the removal of restrictions. On the other hand, you beg for me to reimpose restrictions as soon as I remove them. The freedom to get the steel back out of an engine is simply too dangerous to allow.

I don't think anyone is asking for a restriction to be reimposed, though I can't speak for everyone.

This is a good idea, it just feels unbalanced in the game's world, in particular unbalanced in a way that makes griefing really easy. When waystones were being used to grief wells you introduced a change to balance the game more, and that's all that's being asked here.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Also, a bug slipped into that content, only giving you 16 steel back instead of 18. I will fix that now, and it will go live later.

Thanks! We still lose some rubber, but not so bad in the grand scheme.

Gogo · 2020-04-04 02:59:06

jasonrohrer wrote:

I suggest leaving it out in the open and unguarded at all times.

Lol. I've tried to store it inside a fence, they cursed me for that and while I was trying to explain, even more people cursed me. xD

Elsayal · 2020-04-04 03:03:48

We had a great story there.
Someone broke the engine, but a ginger came with another engine, and a lot of kerosene to help us out. So the tragedy end up in a good story.
I liked it

testo · 2020-04-04 03:06:02

jasonrohrer wrote:

An engine is your town's most valuable, hard-won, and singular possession.

I agree. Could you please add the same double removal notice from elders that waystones have to move it?

I am just asking because the only way to protect the engine colectively as town is to keep it filled with water.

I will try some ingame ideas but I see it hard to implement.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-04-04 03:22:50

Maybe 2 people need to cooperate to remove the engine from a well?
Would make sense, because engines are heavy... Maybe too heavy for one person to remove it from a well. Thieving engines is a problem too, this could solve it.

pein · 2020-04-04 04:00:00

sounds the same as if someone would remove the stanchion kit from your well right after you make it
wouldn't that be the biggest dumb thing ever?

so what's the difference? if you make an engine and bring the oil, you damn right planning to stay there. and if you used it a few times, it's already worth it, why would you ever remove it?

I imagine Jason like the guy in western films who jumps on the horse and falls the other side and doing it over and over.
He either buffs something way too far or nerfs it to the ground.

Elsayal · 2020-04-04 04:49:38

I think it's fine like it is. Maybe someone will destroy it, then what ? The town get a new purpose, and it's good for the story.

DestinyCall · 2020-04-04 06:49:37

I'm not a fan of dumb stories.

DrRoy · 2020-04-04 08:53:03

In real life, almost everything that is hard to build can be destroyed easily. You don't need to be an expert to crush cars, printers, books etc.
What prevents the "real life griefers" from just destroying things?

I think the existence of real life griefers is easily proven. Our main train station is demolished on a regular basis by hooligans or teens.
Imo the thing that prevents regular destruction of valuable things is a fleshed out stable society that has security mechanisms to defend against 'bad guys' (like walls, security Service etc.).

In game, we have property fences. Not everybody is a big fan, but it is something. We also have a leadership. But the society feels totally chaotic and anarchic.

And in some way, it makes sense. For big inventions to happen, you always need a stable society. And if you look in your history book, before the industrialism florished there where big social changes.

Maybe the question should be more like: "how can we get more fleshed out stable societies that allow us to use hard to obtain- easy to destroy stuff?" in contrast to "how can we change stuff in order to fit the chaos anarcho-communist society we are used to?".

Just some shower thoughts

Léonard · 2020-04-04 09:08:09

jasonrohrer wrote:

I suggest leaving it out in the open and unguarded at all times.

Oh come the fuck on.

We've been over this already.

This is literally the war sword 2.0.
And we all know how it ended..

People do NOT like "playing against" griefers.
It is NOT an interesting and rich dynamic.
It's the dumbest thing the game could possibly offer.

And I pray to god that you don't assume people complain about this because of some other hidden agenda.
I really do. I hope you don't read this and think "wow this guy really wants communism". I hope you would realize how idiotic that would be.

Just stop and consider for a single second that "including griefers" is the most idiotic game designing philosphy you could ever come up with.
Just consider it.

st2019 · 2020-04-04 09:42:09

It should require more work. Like 10 hammer hits, all with hungry work. So people can at least stop trolls.

Or/And an opportunity to get it destroyed easily with newer technology (Current driven machines). Like:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com … L1500_.jpg

Or just an idea:

In real life: Engines need "Engine oil" from time to time. It protects the pistons from deadly friction. Why not putting it from time to time in a state ("Maintanace state") where it requires "Engine oil" and only in this state it can be destroyed? So if nobody protects it (Giving it Engine oil) it can be destroyed by Griefers. But if people protect it and give it Engine oil it's fine and they deserve it to run.

We have already "Crude Oil" or "Palm oil" and this could be used for "Maintanance state".

Last edited by st2019 (2020-04-04 10:01:52)

QuirkySmirkyIan · 2020-04-04 13:48:29

Lmao... I made the suggestion as a joke fourm then Jason decided to actually do it so I put a github request and looks where we are now.

Dodge · 2020-04-04 14:00:29

QuirkySmirkyIan wrote:

Lmao... I made the suggestion as a joke

bpskotch · 2020-04-04 14:28:09

Here’s an idea, make the engine only removable if the well is abandoned.

testo · 2020-04-05 06:23:01

bpskotch wrote:

Here’s an idea, make the engine only removable if the well is abandoned.

Thats too good and too simple to implement. Also it was not Jason´s idea so it will never be implemented

Coconut Fruit · 2020-04-05 06:56:48

testo wrote:

bpskotch wrote:
Here’s an idea, make the engine only removable if the well is abandoned.
Thats too good and too simple to implement. Also it was not Jason´s idea so it will never be implemented

Being able to remove engine from a well to get iron with kerosene is useful tho. I got iron a few times by now like that, so I don't really want it being able to remove engine only from abandoned wells.
I would like 2 people need to work together to remove engine from a well, same with iron veins.

testo · 2020-04-05 16:43:13

Coconut Fruit wrote:

testo wrote:
bpskotch wrote:
Here’s an idea, make the engine only removable if the well is abandoned.
Thats too good and too simple to implement. Also it was not Jason´s idea so it will never be implemented
Being able to remove engine from a well to get iron with kerosene is useful tho. I got iron a few times by now like that, so I don't really want it being able to remove engine only from abandoned wells.
I would like 2 people need to work together to remove engine from a well, same with iron veins.

I´m not sure why but I dislike the idea of moving the engine from the well to the minning site. You may be right though, just unsure why It doesn´t please me.

Cogito · 2020-04-06 00:27:42

testo wrote:

Coconut Fruit wrote:
testo wrote:
Thats too good and too simple to implement. Also it was not Jason´s idea so it will never be implemented
Being able to remove engine from a well to get iron with kerosene is useful tho. I got iron a few times by now like that, so I don't really want it being able to remove engine only from abandoned wells.
I would like 2 people need to work together to remove engine from a well, same with iron veins.
I´m not sure why but I dislike the idea of moving the engine from the well to the minning site. You may be right though, just unsure why It doesn´t please me.

It's a necessity if you don't have enough iron for multiple engines. Shift the engine around until you have enough iron to make extras.

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Re: Scrap the Scrap Engine

#27 2020-04-04 01:47:33

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#28 2020-04-04 02:59:06

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#29 2020-04-04 03:03:48

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#33 2020-04-04 04:49:38

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#34 2020-04-04 06:49:37

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#35 2020-04-04 08:53:03

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#36 2020-04-04 09:08:09

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#37 2020-04-04 09:42:09

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#38 2020-04-04 13:48:29

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#39 2020-04-04 14:00:29

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#40 2020-04-04 14:28:09

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#41 2020-04-05 06:23:01

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#42 2020-04-05 06:56:48

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#43 2020-04-05 16:43:13

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