Sheep needs a change

DestinyCall · 2020-04-07 14:01:46

Nothing is a bigger problem than water shortages. That doesn't mean smaller problems don't deserve some attention.

Personally, I think the problem is improper sheep management. And how ugly it looks to have a pen filled with dead babies and poop. Both of these things will eventually decay, but nobody likes to look at a messy pen.

Here's a question ... why do baby sheep die of starvation? Why not allow the babies to live indefinitely like the adult sheep. Then the pen does not get filled up with disgusting baby corpses if you leave adult sheep unshorn. Then we just need to feed the babies when we want more sheep products.

Dodge · 2020-04-07 14:05:07

testo wrote:

Dodge wrote:
testo wrote:
Man your "fixes" are terrible disguises for hard nerfs tbh.
Too much poo? Make compost use double poo.
Too many dead lambs? Make sheep$mouflon don´t have lamb until you feed it a carrot, decrease sheep food to bowl of berry.
Same solution with a nerf on poo because it is too abundant. And way simpler.
You basically said the same thing as me except replaced the 6 meat with carrot.
Then you say i nerf but suggest double poo for compost, so basically double iron usage...
If i'm terrible then you're the worst
Clearly I wouldn´t change sheep at all Dodge, and while im open when I say this is a nerf you hide it behind a "fix" the same as Pein.
You can lol all you want, we all know who the ones pushing for more restrictions and resource scarcity are. At the very least be open about it, you both want mutton and fleece to cost more and all the rest is just bullshit around.
So yeah, sheep doesn´t need a change at all, if poo is a problem make it decay faster if not in a bucket. Dead lamb a problem? Just make it decay faster.

You're paranoid

Elsayal · 2020-04-07 14:12:17

DestinyCall wrote:

Here's a question ... why do baby sheep die of starvation? Why not allow the babies to live indefinitely like the adult sheep.

If a non-worn sheep escape the pen, it will poop new babies all over the place. Babies that can't be killed.

The solution may be : build a freaking trash pit in the pen, and put everything you don't like in it.

And tada !
You got free space.

Last edited by Elsayal (2020-04-07 14:13:02)

pein · 2020-04-07 14:36:06

I mean yes, it would be a nerf, but we are nerfing ourselves when we don't use it properly.

That's the same thing as all calculations with the carrot, in reality, people leaving 2 rows of seed then eating raw carrot just to free up space, then at some point, all go to seed, then people wash out the seed from bowls to get rid of it.

It all comes from the water nerf, compost is worse, feeding sheep is worse. But you still end of with a lot of meat you cannot use up in one go or they all get sheared and fed again.

It would be decent to have 2 stages for wool and 1 stage just to kill them, no other option there. We got the rope to move them to a butcher so it would make the process more intuitive. As I said either 2 portions of food from a bowl or buff to the meat value.

We had another idea in the other topic, making a pen would turn it into a pasture, where sheep could eat the grass automatically. This would mean a lot more pens would be required and you would use up the space all around the camp. Then use that for crop rotation.

Elsayal · 2020-04-07 14:46:21

There : https://onetech.info/617-Small-Trash-Pit

You're welcome.

pein · 2020-04-07 14:51:05

it's a new change but it's still bad using renewable garbage for tool usage, might as well drop dead lambs in a slot box, they will decay before you get new ones.

DestinyCall · 2020-04-07 15:02:48

Elsayal wrote:

There : https://onetech.info/617-Small-Trash-Pit
You're welcome.

I suspect you have never used a trash pit before. It costs iron to dig the pit and fills up too quickly. Complete waste of time, considering the dead babies will decay naturally if left on the grown, costing you nothing but patience (and a high tolerance for ugliness).

...

As for infinite babies, obviously the simple answer is to keep mother and baby together, like the wild mouflon Instead of having the baby split off and wander away from the mom automatically, keep baby and mom as a single unit until fed. Feed the sheep to allow the mother and baby to split up and the baby grows up.

Domestic animals could even cycle between baby and no-baby states, just like their wild counterparts. There is no reason for the constant dead baby animal spam. It looks ugly and is not necessary.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2020-04-07 15:05:19)

Elsayal · 2020-04-07 15:15:34

DestinyCall wrote:

It costs iron to dig the pit and fills up too quickly. Complete waste of time, considering the dead babies will decay naturally if left on the grown, costing you nothing but patience (and a high tolerance for ugliness).
...
As for infinite babies, obviously the simple answer is to keep mother and baby together, like the wild mouflon Instead of having the baby split off and wander away from the mom automatically, keep baby and mom as a single unit until fed. Feed the sheep to allow the mother and baby to split up and the baby grows up.
Domestic animals could even cycle between baby and no-baby states, just like their wild counterparts. There is no reason for the constant dead baby animal spam. It looks ugly and is not necessary.

I like this elegant solution for the babies part : the lamb can in fact stay with the sheep until it's sheared or fed.

But for the dung part, I still think you can use the trash pit from time to time, a trash pit to remove all of it. It may uses a shovel (10% chance) but at least the pen is not fill with dung.

pein · 2020-04-07 15:24:46

it would make sense to trigger lambs with intent then they stay with the mother until grown, would be nicer if it's a middle stage for that.
Bit annoying tho when they outside of pen and u can't use the rope on them.

testo · 2020-04-07 18:08:53

Dodge wrote:

testo wrote:
Dodge wrote:
You basically said the same thing as me except replaced the 6 meat with carrot.
Then you say i nerf but suggest double poo for compost, so basically double iron usage...
If i'm terrible then you're the worst
Clearly I wouldn´t change sheep at all Dodge, and while im open when I say this is a nerf you hide it behind a "fix" the same as Pein.
You can lol all you want, we all know who the ones pushing for more restrictions and resource scarcity are. At the very least be open about it, you both want mutton and fleece to cost more and all the rest is just bullshit around.
So yeah, sheep doesn´t need a change at all, if poo is a problem make it decay faster if not in a bucket. Dead lamb a problem? Just make it decay faster.
You're paranoid

Good arguing with you. I´d like to point though that for some odd reason you choose 6 meat instead of 8 for double the food for sheep. But hey! its all about the dung and dead lamb, no nerf at all. At least Pein admits it is a disguised nerf. Keep the ad hominem and loling big boy no logic at all needed for you.

Dodge · 2020-04-07 18:17:43

testo wrote:

Dodge wrote:
testo wrote:
Clearly I wouldn´t change sheep at all Dodge, and while im open when I say this is a nerf you hide it behind a "fix" the same as Pein.
You can lol all you want, we all know who the ones pushing for more restrictions and resource scarcity are. At the very least be open about it, you both want mutton and fleece to cost more and all the rest is just bullshit around.
So yeah, sheep doesn´t need a change at all, if poo is a problem make it decay faster if not in a bucket. Dead lamb a problem? Just make it decay faster.
You're paranoid
Good arguing with you. I´d like to point though that for some odd reason you choose 6 meat instead of 8 for double the food for sheep. But hey! its all about the dung and dead lamb, no nerf at all. At least Pein admits it is a disguised nerf. Keep the ad hominem and loling big boy no logic at all needed for you.

I said 6 or more...

You're paranoid AND you cant read.

testo · 2020-04-07 18:22:43

Dodge wrote:

testo wrote:
Dodge wrote:
You're paranoid
Good arguing with you. I´d like to point though that for some odd reason you choose 6 meat instead of 8 for double the food for sheep. But hey! its all about the dung and dead lamb, no nerf at all. At least Pein admits it is a disguised nerf. Keep the ad hominem and loling big boy no logic at all needed for you.
I said 6 or more...
You're paranoid AND you cant read.

So 6 is because...? Why no 8 from the start *if you are going to feed the sheep twice*?
You are terrible at concealing Dodge. Bye.

Cogito · 2020-04-08 06:22:38

I wrote this somewhere else, but I would love some other food that let's a sheep regrow its wool.

Even better if that is grass that has to be grazed (so you have to herd the sheep around a pasture). So 0-water wool, that requires time and effort instead.

Could do something like regrow wool by feeding straw instead, I think that might be balanced.

testo · 2020-05-31 03:03:48

Good job assholes (To our dear pros: PEIN, DODGE, TWISTED, VOY178 in that order of stupidity).

No only you managed to get the full food nerf (this thread is pre foodscale nerf on 2020.04.10 if you didn´t notice).

Somehow you also managed to get sheep AND pig cost double. Real nice job, suggesting changes that affect gameplay about 0% and make people only have to make more food with water lasting less. No choices, no development no nothing.

Oh well maybe im overreacting, we got a full extra mutton out of it... for double the prize and with half the value.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-31 04:22:55

We had too much mutton anyways, didn't we?
People should use sheep only to make dung, and everything else should be a byproduct that we get "for free". One sheep gives 5 mutton meat, that means 20 mutton pie yummy bites for 20 people in a perfect scenario.

Just make more yum foods instead of doing the easy mutton pies food in big quantities.

This change is really not big deal.

testo · 2020-05-31 04:40:17

Coconut Fruit wrote:

We had too much mutton anyways, didn't we?
This change is really not big deal.

0 This week mutton overflow was due to the infamous bowl bug.

1 The number of people that yum intensively is not that high to begin with.

2 Double the price and lot more time to breed a sheep (forget about going into the pen and having lamb ready to grow). Not just that, if you feed a sheep and dont feed the lamb because you had to run to do something else it is 100% loss.

3 Basically double price for a sheep fleece from a sheep lamb.

4 Pigs aren´t really great anymore.

I expect mass domestic mouflon as new meta. It just doesn´t make any sense otherwise. Also rabbit just became a lot more attractive.

It is a big deal, for a pretended cosmetic change (Those nice clean pens just became very expensive). Color me mad and dissapointed.

Grim_Arbiter · 2020-05-31 05:31:59

See I think this could all fit nicely now if the berry grow timer was reduced.

Non yummers wouldn't kill a towns sheep/compost production because of the time involved in all of it.

Would be easier to time feeding a sheep and a baby at the same time.

The old grow time is based from before the food update, so it doesn't match the current pace of everything.

Dodge · 2020-05-31 13:35:04

Yes the berry grow timer is way too high and needs to be reduced (a lot), this way you wouldn't need to make huge fields of berries but at the same time the cost to maintain bushes would stay the same, so no reason not to do it.

Cost of fleece has always been too expensive at least for medical pads and wool clothes, should either get more fleece or reduce cost of previous two.

Now that you have to feed the grown animal to get baby ones you shouldn't need to feed the baby, they can suck on their mums tits for milk, this way they would cost the same + not make dead baby clutter.

If someone wants these changes they can open a github post.

P.S testo still paranoid moron

Melea · 2020-05-31 15:46:29

Honestly, sheep and lambs should be moved to corn instead of the weird berry+carrot thing.

RL, slightly fattening livestock ("conditioning" them) so they breed well or grow fast is done by feeding them a bit of grain in addition to grass/hay. In nature, grain is a seasonal high-calorie part of their normal diet (since grain = seeds of grasses).

OHOL cattle and pigs use corn kernels to get production of milk & meat. Sheep should use corn as well. It makes sense from a RL standpoint, and makes A LOT of sense in-game. Livestock feeding would be consistent across the species, corn is less tedious to process than filling a bowl with individual berries, and it's a much better return on water (4 corn = 4 animal feed per water, instead of only 1 feed per watered bush).

Down with berry+carrot! Corn for sheep!

Last edited by Melea (2020-05-31 15:47:37)

schmloo · 2020-05-31 17:39:07

pein wrote:

2 young sheep can give wool, won't poop, won't have lamb, can't be killed for meat
3 old sheep, poops on transition, gives wool once, can be slaughtered

I like it, would add a pretty significant buffer to killing all of the sheep, allowing people to see what’s happening (provided there’s lots of sheep though).

Grim_Arbiter · 2020-05-31 22:34:29

Melea wrote:

Honestly, sheep and lambs should be moved to corn instead of the weird berry+carrot thing.
RL, slightly fattening livestock ("conditioning" them) so they breed well or grow fast is done by feeding them a bit of grain in addition to grass/hay. In nature, grain is a seasonal high-calorie part of their normal diet (since grain = seeds of grasses).
OHOL cattle and pigs use corn kernels to get production of milk & meat. Sheep should use corn as well. It makes sense from a RL standpoint, and makes A LOT of sense in-game. Livestock feeding would be consistent across the species, corn is less tedious to process than filling a bowl with individual berries, and it's a much better return on water (4 corn = 4 animal feed per water, instead of only 1 feed per watered bush).
Down with berry+carrot! Corn for sheep!

Yeah or that. I'm pretty sure I've brought that up in the past too.

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