One Hour One Life Forums

ollj

Member

Registered: 2019-06-15

Posts: 626

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

the mobile port has a spectator function, you can only spectate people that live in a family where you died before, and that can easily be the 12th family earlier. this is no issue at all, theres next to no warfatre on any mobile port server ever, and cities live significantly shorter lifes, as hunting is much harder, and griefing is much easier there.

that function costs extra, which kinda makes sense, its non essential.
that function is rarely used to track problems or to spy on foreign families, it is mostly used to just watch your children, and the best part of it is, you can curse people as spectator, and they only get the message "a spectator cursed", this message is likely a bit misleading, the whole family gets a "you have been cursed by a spectrator", but its only one family meber of them all, bad translation.

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issue:

Too many ways for griefers to use up rope with no ability to recoup the rope.

if you search a lot near a town without rope, you likely find firebow drills without short shafts hidden behind trees, and just the usual 4 bows but only 2 arrows in the city.
both of these items need a disassembly to get the rope back.
ability to disassemble an arrow would be nice for the same reason.

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

  You're here playing OHOL right now because I coded up this crazy engine, and I stuck with my crazy vision for the game.

There's a new player here https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8576 who comments here suggesting that he believes the game a historical simulation, not a futuristic post-apocalyptic imaginative scenario.

Also, when I bought the game last December, I thought it a historical simulation of a sort.

I suspect many other people either didn't or don't think about the program as providing a science fiction game context and instead view it as having a historical fiction context.

On top of that, I suspect that lots of people don't know about your "evolve or die" philosophy for the game, or would play in spite of that philosophy.

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

kaidu

Member

Registered: 2019-11-21

Posts: 12

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

There's a new player here...

Yes, I'm new. And still I remember your name, cause I always roll my eyes when reading your posts.

...who comments here suggesting that he believes the game a historical simulation, not a futuristic post-apocalyptic imaginative scenario.

No, I didn't. I said that there is no background story in the game. I neither think its post-apocalyptic, nor its a historical simulation (with Eve? Seriously?).

I suspect many other people either didn't or don't think about the program as providing a science fiction game context and instead view it as having a historical fiction context.

I don't see any science fiction context. Its not as if we would build a rocket to fly from the planet, as it is the case in Factorio.

On top of that, I suspect that lots of people don't know about your "evolve or die" philosophy for the game, or would play in spite of that philosophy.

Okay, here is my opinion about the game: I think the idea behind the game is to build up a civilization, with the challenge, that you only have one hour time to add your contribution to the development of the civilization. Thus, teamwork is the key: not only crafting yourself, but tell people of the next generations what has to be done, what you couldn't finish yourself during your short life. "evolve or die" is part of the game difficulty mechanics: the game shouldn't be too rough, so that people are constantly hungry and dying. On the other hand, there has to be some pressure to force evolution, development and migration. Otherwise, people would reach very fast a stable state where they don't need to do anything for survival. In every developed town I started so far, we had so many food resources that there was no need to do anything. Just the knowledge that resources are finite, was a reason to still develop further, build up some buffer, to increase the chance for future generations to survive.

The current problem of the game is, that it reaches a state of complexity, such that only very few people know how to build up advanced technologies (e.g. newcomen stuff). Furthermore, these few people got extremely efficient at that. So, a village can be run by two or three experienced players, while the other players are basically useless. The limitations like tool slots and family specializations are a way to enforce teamplay. Now, people can't build up an newcomen well themselves anymore. This doesn't mean its not possible. It just involves finding other families who help you. And it slow down everything, so you cannot reach such high tech within a generation. While I can see why some experienced players complain about this changes, I doubt that these players are in the majority, or do represent any majority opinion. Furthermore, everyone can create his own servers for experienced-only players without any limitations.

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

Kaidu,

You have a good observation about the game not having a background story in it.  A monolith consists of the only clue that players can get, I think, and that's not much.  A new player wandering about playing the game fresh wouldn't be likely to encounter a monolith.  If players had more clues that they could find, that just might make the game more interesting.

That all said, according to the Wikipedia (note artists sometimes write their own bios... Jason might be have written the wiki page on OHOL) Jason said this:

"Rohrer has said that the idea that led to the game was a thought experiment about how long it would take for humanity to get "from arrowheads to iPhones" with "the knowledge we have today"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Hour_One_Life

Also CatX linked to a post where Jason said this:

The major thought experiment in this game is this:

"It took us 4000 years to advance from stone-aged tech to the iPhone the first time around.  If we had to start over from scratch, naked in the wilderness, with nothing but rocks and sticks, but we retained all knowledge, how long would it take the second time?"

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4778

The limitations like tool slots and family specializations are a way to enforce teamplay. Now, people can't build up an newcomen well themselves anymore. This doesn't mean its not possible. It just involves finding other families who help you.

I agree with you that tool slots do that, though Jason had more goals in mind: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8181  I'm no longer opposed to them, they might help newer players get more help.  They can encourage leadership in advanced players also, I think.  I don't have a good read on whether the majority of players like them or not.

Also, it's not family specializations.  Not as things currently work.  Instead, we have race restrictions.  I don't think those are popular.  I don't think a player leaving town for the first time enjoys the dropsy because he's a ginger walking through a desert.  I heard a longtime streamer say the other day that 'traveling isn't fun anymore'. 

Having to/having advantages to interacting with members of other families can have advantages.  But, when they get based implausibly on the race of the character, I think it's a different.  Were it the case that we actually had family specializations based on family name, those limitations could plausibly get thought of as happening on the basis of knowledge that the Eve had in the pre-apocalyptic world.  Or knowledge that some members of the family learned, I suppose.  However, since restrictions get based on race, the specializations not only feel arbitrary, but just aren't plausible.

Additionally, no one need to create their own server to avoid race restrictions or tool slots.  Both tool slots and race restrictions are disabled when the server has less than 15 people on it.  Usually servers 2-15 have less than 15 people on them.  But, I don't think Jason's intention with tool slots or race restrictions was originally or has been since then to effectively move people from playing bigserver2/server1 to one of those servers.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-11-30 16:24:04)

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

kaidu

Member

Registered: 2019-11-21

Posts: 12

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

"It took us 4000 years to advance from stone-aged tech to the iPhone the first time around.  If we had to start over from scratch, naked in the wilderness, with nothing but rocks and sticks, but we retained all knowledge, how long would it take the second time?"

I already said my opinion about that in the other thread.

I agree with you that tool slots do that, though Jason had more goals in mind: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8181

I don't see what else. Communication, leadership, foresight. It goes all more or less in the same direction: a single player cannot run a city alone. 

Also, it's not family specializations.  Not as things currently work.  Instead, we have race restrictions.

That's basically the same. You could say, the race is just the visualization of the family specialization.
I agree, that it is questionable/controversial to use the race for that. It's somehow opposed to what we learn and teach nowadays, that there are no human races and different skin colors are not much different than different hair colors. Now the game tell us, just black people can work in the dessert. From an ethical viewpoint this is indeed questionable. For the game mechanics it is of course helpful, if there is a visualization for the trait a family has. Maybe race is just the wrong one.

Let's assume each biome has its own kind of clothes mechanics. That would even work nicely with the climate differences: Ice biome has seal clothes. They are even necessary to survive the harsh conditions there. So you could recognize people specialized on the ice biome on their seal clothes instead of their hair color. Similarly, jungle biome has tatoos. Although, they are currently too hard to craft for most new players. But assuming that jungle is always warm enough such that you don't need clothes. Tatoos could protect against moscitos. The dessert biome might require sun protection by hats or scarfs. Dunno if that is more preferable, but recognizing people on their clothes might be less controversial than recognizing them on their skin color.

I don't think a player leaving town for the first time enjoys the dropsy because he's a ginger walking through a desert.  I heard a longtime streamer say the other day that 'traveling isn't fun anymore'.

The dessert, jungle and ice biomes are meant to be too dangerous to crossing them. I think, if we want to have more fun on traveling, we should add more unique elements to the other biomes, instead of making a dessert easy to cross.

However, since restrictions get based on race, the specializations not only feel arbitrary, but just aren't plausible.

I think they aren't plausible in any way. Why should they depend on the mother? Knowledge is not genetics.

Just something I found in another thread:

Wine will get made. In late game towns. It's not that bad really, sure it's a lot of steps to get it started, but once you have the glassware you just need to water the grapes to keep making more.

On the race topic, I do find it a bit cumbersome that a lot of biome specific ingredients need to be combined with other biome-specific ingredients. I thought it would be more like one race can complete a certain recipe entirely, and another race can complete another recipe entirely, facilitating an exchange of finished products. But the current way does force more interconnectedness than just everyone in town working by themself to make their own finished product, though a lot of the time it's still like this, gather a bunch of palm kernels and just leave them lying around to be used when someone else needs them.

I totally agree with that. If family specialization should encourage trading, then it would make more sense to let whole recipes depend on a specialization.

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

I agree with you that tool slots do that, though Jason had more goals in mind: https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8181

I don't see what else. Communication, leadership, foresight. It goes all more or less in the same direction: a single player cannot run a city alone.

There's more to what he wanted there.  Every life would feel truly different.  Challenge from constraints.

Also, it's not family specializations.  Not as things currently work.  Instead, we have race restrictions.

That's basically the same.

I don't agree race restrictions the same as family specializations could be.  Every black family is the same.  Every ginger family is the same.  Etc.  Or they would be the same with the same number of players and the same gender distribution (and at the same stage of development).  Were it based on family, then either every family would be different (unlikely to make possible I believe), or families would become similar by some random means.  You couldn't look at a family and say 'oh they have this ability', as you can now if you see a bunch of browns and then you immediately know that they can get rubber from a jungle.

Let's assume each biome has its own kind of clothes mechanics. That would even work nicely with the climate differences: Ice biome has seal clothes. They are even necessary to survive the harsh conditions there. So you could recognize people specialized on the ice biome on their seal clothes instead of their hair color. Similarly, jungle biome has tatoos. Although, they are currently too hard to craft for most new players. But assuming that jungle is always warm enough such that you don't need clothes. Tatoos could protect against moscitos. The dessert biome might require sun protection by hats or scarfs. Dunno if that is more preferable, but recognizing people on their clothes might be less controversial than recognizing them on their skin color.

Jungles and deserts are both too hot and there's no way to cool down outside.  It's a poor state of affairs.

I don't think a player leaving town for the first time enjoys the dropsy because he's a ginger walking through a desert.  I heard a longtime streamer say the other day that 'traveling isn't fun anymore'.

The dessert, jungle and ice biomes are meant to be too dangerous to crossing them. I think, if we want to have more fun on traveling, we should add more unique elements to the other biomes, instead of making a dessert easy to cross.

I played back before the temperature overhaul.  In my experience, the more biomes that I could run through viably, the more interesting.  The world feels quite bland now with badlands, grasslands, swamps, and prairies so prominent and them all being the same cold temperature.  It didn't feel quite as bad this way before topographic rings, but it was still so samey in so many places with respect to temperature.

However, since restrictions get based on race, the specializations not only feel arbitrary, but just aren't plausible.

I think they aren't plausible in any way. Why should they depend on the mother? Knowledge is not genetics.

They should depend on the Eve, because she learned of those things before the apocalypse.  She passed that knowledge down to her children and her children did the same with their children and so on.  So, it wouldn't be genetics, it would be a result of oral tradition.

And it's race specialization as things currently stand.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2019-11-30 20:27:21)

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

MissImmortal

Member

Registered: 2019-05-31

Posts: 7

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

What a pretentious twat. I regret giving money to this person. Just because a player isn't a game developer doesn't mean their opinion is shit or that their proposed solution should be completely discarded. Just because a person didn't make the game, doesn't mean it's not "Their game". Gaming is a community.

"I automatically know if-" No, you fucking don't. You have experience with the game engine and so can make predictions of the time it may take to implement a change, but you aren't a fucking God.

Want a clear statement of the problem I've encountered? You. You force players to play exactly how you want, and exactly the way you want it. You've taken out everything enjoyable about the game in favor of your "vision".

Also, twat, years of experience does NOT equate competency. They look good on a resume, and they're nice bragging points, but they mean nothing in the way of talent and ability.

;TLDR- Jason, get off your Goddamn high horse

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2017-02-13

Posts: 4,805

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

Please email me for a refund.

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

Please email me for a refund.

That Jason ends up feeling the need to so that suggests that this whole post was foolish.  Additionally, who knows if she bought the game from Steam or from Jason's website?

Also, look back the examples Jason used in the original post. 

Even then, people just kept saying, "REMOVE THE WAR SWORD, IT RUINS THE GAME."  Really?  Hmm... that can't be right.  The war sword itself can't be the problem.  It must be something else.

Yea, and later on the war sword got so nerfed that it may as well not exist.  Thus, it basically showed that the people saying that the war sword was a problem had a serious and enduring point.

I mean, heck, if I had listened to you about "shelving" without understanding the problem, I probably would have given you a shelf with four slots for four baskets!  Then you really would have thought I was an idiot.

Saying what Jason did there is also rather bad, because later Jason made a table with 3 slots.  No one thought Jason an idiot for doing that in particular, at least so far as I know.

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

sigmen4020

Member

Registered: 2019-01-05

Posts: 850

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

Please email me for a refund.

That Jason ends up feeling the need to so that suggests that this whole post was foolish.  Additionally, who knows if she bought the game from Steam or from Jason's website?

Jason can refund the game whether it was bought on Steam or the website. If you emailed for a refund, Jason would send back your money and remove your server access, essentially banning you from playing the game. The game will still show up in your Steam library, but will essentially be unplayable.

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2020-04-06 14:05:55)

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For the time being, I think we have enough content.

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

Jason can refund the game whether it was bought on Steam or the website. If you emailed for a refund, Jason would send back your money and remove your server access, essentially banning you from playing the game. The game will still show up in your Steam library, but will essentially be unplayable.

I would think that some of the money that people use to buy games on Steam goes to Steam, and the other part of the money goes to the people/person/corporation who released the game on Steam.  Are you suggesting that if, for example, someone bought the game from Steam between November of 2018 and October of 2019 for 20 U. S. dollars, and that person emails Jason, that Jason will refund that person the full 20 U. S. dollars?

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

sigmen4020

Member

Registered: 2019-01-05

Posts: 850

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

Jason can refund the game whether it was bought on Steam or the website. If you emailed for a refund, Jason would send back your money and remove your server access, essentially banning you from playing the game. The game will still show up in your Steam library, but will essentially be unplayable.

I would think that some of the money that people use to buy games on Steam goes to Steam, and the other part of the money goes to the people/person/corporation who released the game on Steam.  Are you suggesting that if, for example, someone bought the game from Steam between November of 2018 and October of 2019 for 20 U. S. dollars, and that person emails Jason, that Jason will refund that person the full 20 U. S. dollars?

All I was saying is that you can still get a refund if you bought the game on Steam. I have no idea if he only refunds his cut from the game sale or the entire amount the customer paid on Steam. I'm also kind of unsure if Jason can detect if someone bought the game during a sale or not. Maybe Jason can chime in on this.

Last edited by sigmen4020 (2020-04-06 20:04:04)

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For the time being, I think we have enough content.

Léonard

Member

Registered: 2019-01-05

Posts: 205

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

Even then, people just kept saying, "REMOVE THE WAR SWORD, IT RUINS THE GAME."  Really?  Hmm... that can't be right.  The war sword itself can't be the problem.  It must be something else.

Yea, and later on the war sword got so nerfed that it may as well not exist.

Yeah, I know right.

If you like to remember these old posts, check this one out.

Some very interesting stuff in there.

It was the Life Token Limit.  SO HATED!  Some dude may actually be in the process of suing me over that update.  But also probably the best update the game has ever seen.

Life token limit, definitely the best update ever.
Totally made me want to come back and play.

I hope you see a pattern here.  The quality of the update in terms of long-term positive impact on the game is inversely proportional to the number of negative reviews.

Yeah, clearly that life token update really worked out.
There's yet another recent thread talking about the /die command.
People really care about their boring lives filled with the same content/endgame over and over again.
They're definitely not bored. Adding content would be totally unnecessary.
We should decrease the number of tokens again, it will make lives meaningful once again.. somehow..

Which is what I hope to achieve with the rift, eventually.  It will eventually be amazing.  But I'm still tweaking it.

Oh yeah, the rift was definitely amazing.

Last edited by Léonard (2020-04-07 21:07:23)

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

Yeah, clearly that life token update really worked out.
There's yet another recent thread talking about the /die command.
People really care about their boring lives filled with the same content/endgame over and over again.
They're definitely not bored. Adding content would be totally unnecessary.
We should decrease the number of tokens again, it will make lives meaningful once again.. somehow..

*laughs* yeah... all bad updates and changes.  Others have pointed out that the game is rather samey these days, and before the temperature overhaul it wasn't so samey.  Sometimes people started developing in grasslands, sometimes people played along desert edges, and sometimes people lived in jungles.  The numbers dropped a substantial number of percentage points last March, more then 24%, after the temperature system got changed: https://steamcharts.com/app/595690#All  And that's a bigger drop than any other month since the Steam release other than the initial one.  Life Tokens and The Rift also were bad for the game growing.

That said though, for the game becoming anything other than the small potatoes it's always been, a whole host of other things would have to change.  The first thing that would have to change would be for Jason to get an open mind, instead of an a priori obstinate conjecture on what people find fun.  Then he would have to have an interest in satisfying what gamers find fun in general.  He's also have to have the willingness to hire someone else, and well, that would also require for him to have an open mind.  The sexist nature of the game, with how it has a negative view of men making them all into reproductive incels, and by devaluing men's physical abilities in the real world, also would have to go.  Players would also need to have some control over where they got born.  And players would have to have the ability to play again in the same location fairly easily.  The tutorial would also need a lot more in it, because plenty of gamers like opportunities like that to enhance their gameplay abilities.  The game would also need different difficulty levels with different servers, because some people like playing games on easier settings... as one experience I know, one person played civ III for a few years on the 2nd easiest out of 8 difficulty level... she did NOT want a whole lot of challenge and I've seen others say that they prefer easier rather than harder settings... while others like more of a challenge.  And a lack of shoehorning players into playstyles would have to come about. 

Probably a bunch more also... there's likely dozens of reasons that this game won't ever take off.  But, I don't think stating those reasons will have much of an effect.  After all, this game wasn't about making a product that has value for the larger society or for people who play.  It's been about Jason satisfying his own ego, and him having a means to convince himself that his notions had more value than they actually do.

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

Elsayal

Member

Registered: 2018-11-04

Posts: 262

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

*yawn*

"The game need this and that. I'm not happy with the game as it is."

Since I'm not a total moron, I'm sure that if I don't like a game, instead of complaining like a douchebag, I will promptly leave it and do some other thing. But it's just me, I don't know.

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"I go"
"find"
"iron"

Spoonwood

Member

Registered: 2019-02-06

Posts: 4,369

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

Since I'm not a total moron, I'm sure that if I don't like a game, instead of complaining like a douchebag, I will promptly leave it and do some other thing. But it's just me, I don't know.

Yeah, I don't think Elsayal's previous apology was sincere.

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Danish Clinch.
Longtime tutorial player.

Cantface

Member

Registered: 2019-04-14

Posts: 304

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

If you sink enough hours into a game, grow to love it then later become frustrated at some unpopular changes then you should be able to voice that opinion. Yes multiple times if you feel strongly. We can't all be yes men, jeez. Some of us want FUN content. Some of you want to suffer and punish yourselves under mighty lord Jason like you're a flagellant. Have fun with that.

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Breasticles

testo

Member

Registered: 2019-05-12

Posts: 698

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

*yawn*

"The game need this and that. I'm not happy with the game as it is."

Since I'm not a total moron, I'm sure that if I don't like a game, instead of complaining like a douchebag, I will promptly leave it and do some other thing. But it's just me, I don't know.

I have to say I sort of envy Spoonwoods and Leonards resilience to abandon this forum. It is pretty clear they don´t even play they game anymore and yet they take their time to come back to explain things and their point of view in a logic and organized way.

I have a tendency to dodge Spoon threads because all the hate he gets distort the discussion heavily, and Leonard comments come in a more isolated fashion so a lot of his posting gets lost. But I am completely sure they voice a lot of frustrated people that have left the game as you suggest, with the same burning feeling about the game simply not delivering what was promised.

And that is the one thing you should show respect to even if you don´t like them, because these guys don´t come here with the "I don´t like this game, this should be so and so" mentality, but with a "this was offered and not delivered" mentality. If you take the minimum amount of time to read them in a constructive manner you will see they never, ever deviate from trying to elaborate a logic argument based on what Jason has said and done and not on what they want the game to be.

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- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.

- Jack Ass

Elsayal

Member

Registered: 2018-11-04

Posts: 262

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

If you sink enough hours into a game, grow to love it then later become frustrated at some unpopular changes then you should be able to voice that opinion.

I agree with you. But the "sexiest nature of the game" / bad values promoted because of a game mechanic are not "unpopular change". These were in the game at the very beginning.

You claim that you want some FUN content, and I agree with that. I proposed some easter eggs (true ones, in chocolate from a Jungle biome new tree), but I was told that he focus on fixing bugs first. It makes me a bit sad. But I can wait. I will be patient.At some point, if the fun will no more be in for me, I will quit the game for some month, like I did once, until some new content come.

Jason don't have to improve the game every week. There is no contract between him and us there. We bought a game, we play some or more hours. But that's it. There are plenty of games that didn't get more development or on which most of us spent much much less hours and won't play anymore. I fear that the game may be "finished" as it is, without more content added. I wouldn't approve that, at all, but it's a simple fact (I said may be).

Firing bullet at Jason will not improve the feelings he got with the game and the player base or the will to improve his own game. Who am I to judge him ? He released a good game, I played it for hours and enjoy it. That's it.

@testo :
To some extent I agree with you, testo. I may have been to harsh on Spoonwood and maybe we started off on a wrong foot. But still :

No, I don't love the game.  I think it promotes bad values, and I've said that elsewhere also.  I've also encouraged people to stop playing the game permanently, as you might infer from the title of one of my posts says, if you care to look.

I think that this statement, encouraging people to stop playing, is not constructive. At all.

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"I go"
"find"
"iron"

testo

Member

Registered: 2019-05-12

Posts: 698

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

@Elsayal:
The thing is, I´ve played a few times with Spoon and I know he loved the game at some point. And I understand his repeated complains can be seen as toxic, but at the same time I´ve seen many people come and go with expectations just to get ignored at every step of the way. I think there is no real solution here.

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- I believe the term "Berrymuncher" is derogatory and therefore I shall use the term "Berrier" instead.

- Jack Ass

Three

Member

Registered: 2018-07-30

Posts: 48

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

i like spoonwood actually but i really doubt anything will ever come of an argument here

G3Kappa

Member

Registered: 2020-11-02

Posts: 1

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

I find it a bit jarring that the developer of a game that is, in a way, about not being able to impose your own vision over everyone else's, and building something together and as a community, has such strong opinions about their own vision for the game. I don't disagree with the meat of your message, I'm just taken aback by the lack of humility that lets you assume your ideas are infallible, or rather, that everyone else's ideas are automatically inferior just because they're not yours to begin with. Again, I'm just saying, since I know how it goes with randos suggesting random stuff. It's good to put some stakes in place to filter them out. But the tone, jeez. You talk about experience but I'm only hearing "narcissism". I don't want to throw shade but given that the game has currently fewer than 100 concurrent players, I would just drop the facade.

In the game, I can start a village as an Eve. I can set everything up, be as efficient as possible, and really bring my vision for the village in the form of its initial layout. But it will be my children who will found a town on top of my blueprint. Not me. Isn't that the freaking point of the game, the underlying moral? That one person can't build anything that truly stands the test of time just by themselves, and that no matter how hard they try, someone else will eventually build something even greater on top of their past achievements?

Or was the original idea just like "let's make carpal tunnel simulator and leave keyboard support to the modders, who don't share my perfect vision and don't realize how long it would take to implement"? (I would have never even grew to like the game without mods, as not being able to zoom out and look for items is like playing a first person shooter with your FOV fixed at 45 degrees, or, in other words, a pointless exercise in agony)

I might have been playing for all the wrong reasons. Then again, I find joy in farming milkweed, so maybe I AM odd...

Last edited by G3Kappa (2020-11-02 07:29:20)

LiberatedAmon

Member

Registered: 2023-01-05

Posts: 17

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

Problem: The walking button is also an action button and makes it seriously confusing as to which button to use for which action. Especially since sometimes either button works. Usually when you walk with a mouse, that's all you do with that button, and the other button is the action button. If you need 2 action buttons direction keys should cover movement. Also the mouse movement is really laggy between moving the cursor and the character changing direction.

TheOneTrueKing

Member

Registered: 2023-07-25

Posts: 24

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

I find it a bit jarring that the developer of a game that is, in a way, about not being able to impose your own vision over everyone else's, and building something together and as a community, has such strong opinions about their own vision for the game. I don't disagree with the meat of your message, I'm just taken aback by the lack of humility that lets you assume your ideas are infallible, or rather, that everyone else's ideas are automatically inferior just because they're not yours to begin with. Again, I'm just saying, since I know how it goes with randos suggesting random stuff. It's good to put some stakes in place to filter them out. But the tone, jeez. You talk about experience but I'm only hearing "narcissism". I don't want to throw shade but given that the game has currently fewer than 100 concurrent players, I would just drop the facade.

In the game, I can start a village as an Eve. I can set everything up, be as efficient as possible, and really bring my vision for the village in the form of its initial layout. But it will be my children who will found a town on top of my blueprint. Not me. Isn't that the freaking point of the game, the underlying moral? That one person can't build anything that truly stands the test of time just by themselves, and that no matter how hard they try, someone else will eventually build something even greater on top of their past achievements?

Or was the original idea just like "let's make carpal tunnel simulator and leave keyboard support to the modders, who don't share my perfect vision and don't realize how long it would take to implement"? (I would have never even grew to like the game without mods, as not being able to zoom out and look for items is like playing a first person shooter with your FOV fixed at 45 degrees, or, in other words, a pointless exercise in agony)

I might have been playing for all the wrong reasons. Then again, I find joy in farming milkweed, so maybe I AM odd...

Honestly, couldn't agree more. As a creator myself, I wouldn't ever put restrictions on my creations. You can't control how people utilize or interact with what you make. TBH this dev is a bit bizarre with "i'll take my ball and go home" vibe, (what was that covid rant?).  Purposefully encouraging bans... because if someone really WANTS to play they have to buy another account. Yay capatalism... i guess? So what if people want to "grief", (btw don't even get me started on how annoying the phrase is, it's GRIFT!), let them. Why not let clans clash or, rather than block a player, implement a jail/jury system? Why not have in game players police instead? Oh..to sell more accounts. This weird curse system is not well thought out or used as intended.

-I mean cursing someone because they took a hat you wanted out of a pile of 20?
-cursing someone because they were new and ate the last carrot in the row? a 5 year ban because you did that a few times? get real

For chrissake, people get cursed for the most PETTIEST things. Look it's not that serious, however it IS a civilization game. Every game has an enemy. What if someone chooses to live that life path? Instead they're permabanned... Just because you want to control how people play the game? The invention path's don't add up to that type of control.
Donkeytown is probably the lamest invention in any game I've ever played. There's other ways to microtransaction a game. This type of attitude continues to foster a community of karens. This game was great in the beginning, I began to take a long break a short time after curses were implemented. I have returned to see curses (and the invention/implementation of DT) way more abused that GRIFTING ever was.

skps2010

Member

Registered: 2023-07-09

Posts: 14

Re: What I actually, generally need when you give me feedback about OHOL

Honestly, couldn't agree more. As a creator myself, I wouldn't ever put restrictions on my creations. You can't control how people utilize or interact with what you make. TBH this dev is a bit bizarre with "i'll take my ball and go home" vibe, (what was that covid rant?).  Purposefully encouraging bans... because if someone really WANTS to play they have to buy another account. Yay capatalism... i guess? So what if people want to "grief", (btw don't even get me started on how annoying the phrase is, it's GRIFT!), let them. Why not let clans clash or, rather than block a player, implement a jail/jury system? Why not have in game players police instead? Oh..to sell more accounts. This weird curse system is not well thought out or used as intended.

-I mean cursing someone because they took a hat you wanted out of a pile of 20?
-cursing someone because they were new and ate the last carrot in the row? a 5 year ban because you did that a few times? get real

For chrissake, people get cursed for the most PETTIEST things. Look it's not that serious, however it IS a civilization game. Every game has an enemy. What if someone chooses to live that life path? Instead they're permabanned... Just because you want to control how people play the game? The invention path's don't add up to that type of control.
Donkeytown is probably the lamest invention in any game I've ever played. There's other ways to microtransaction a game. This type of attitude continues to foster a community of karens. This game was great in the beginning, I began to take a long break a short time after curses were implemented. I have returned to see curses (and the invention/implementation of DT) way more abused that GRIFTING ever was.

Why do so many people have positive opinion about griefing?

Griefing is the most evil and destructive action in a sandbox survival game. It is also more serious in OHOL, because you can't protect something forever due to short life.

Griefing can make hours of work be gone in a few minutes. It will cause so many players to leave. A sandbox survival game need to do EVERYTHING to stop griefing in order to keep players playing. Griefing may a life choice in real life, it just doesn't suit the game.

To deal with griefing, cursing system is a great system. Let me remind you, unlike "admin moderating", cursing is done by players, it's players' actions.

Clans clash, jail/jury system, players police can't deal with griefing, It can at most take away griefers' lifes. But griefers don't care about surviving, they care about respawning and griefing.

If people get permabanned by griefing, they deserve it, because their existence makes the game lose more players.

If cursing get abused, it's a design flaw. It can be improved (like the requirements of reasons and others' agreements), not removed.

Conclution:
Griefing needs to be stopped at all cost, and cursing system is the best system for it. You should suggest something that can deal with griefing better.