Food nerf

pein · 2020-04-11 16:20:15

"There are still food surpluses everywhere. Food scale factor 0.5 (was 1.0), with eating bonus of 4 (was 2). This increases food pressure long-term, but not too hard for Eve starts."

everything is cut in half
the bonus is just for Eve camps and degrades fast into nothing, that two bonus only lasted for a few generations, I guess the 4 will do the same.
you can't even really consider it a bonus

It cant be half pip so it rounds up
So mutton will be 7 instead of 13
Berries 2, not 3, etc

This is his answer for high-value foods being useless, aka forcing the feast table on us
and nothing to do in the cities, basically you need to eat twice as often

In the meantime hungry work stays the same, taking a big nerf to sheep and pork
Since killing pork now is hungry work, that's 25% nerf to the carnitas
But then halving the value, you basically need a 50% investment of your food bar to get 50% profit
You got 40 food from corn, so 160 from a water
Now you get 20 pips for a new pig but invest 10 to kill them, so you get 10 profit, 40 from a water
it's still good compared to other things but you need a big buffer to even make them

This requires veterans who can think it trough, also getting hungry and not having food will further escalate the stashing of food in the pack, behind trees and such.

Léonard · 2020-04-11 17:01:35

There are still food surpluses everywhere.

Yeah don't bother trying to build any civilization..

This is just another dumb survival game.
Cooperative don't starve without seasons and bosses.

He probably saw the thread that said people were bored in big cities yet again and thought "this must mean the game is too easy again".

But wait! Where have I heard this before?
Oh, right...

Léonard wrote:

I like how bob's other thread I linked also hints at this.
Bob: Why does everyone want to Eve or play Eve camps?
Everyone: Big cities are boring.
Jason: Eureka! That's because life is too easy!!
And 6 months later we're still at the iron age. Nice.

About 10 months ago.
It's become a pattern by now.

You know I can't wait to see what happens next.
Either the veterans figure it out eventually again, get at the same old top of the tech tree and notice exactly the same thing again: that big cities are boring (this has technically already happened), or this time it's so harsh that people just don't manage to do it anymore and/or quit in frustration.

Elsayal · 2020-04-11 17:47:20

pein wrote:

"There are still food surpluses everywhere. Food scale factor 0.5 (was 1.0), with eating bonus of 4 (was 2). This increases food pressure long-term, but not too hard for Eve starts."

Where did you saw that ?

pein · 2020-04-11 17:52:14

I mean I hate the engine change
At least it was a minigame that you had to make it before people die there and stay there, so your city can be revived while the ones who die off without making an engine are there just to be scavenged and it's a bad idea to repopulate it.
Now they just steal the engine and your hard work goes to shit. What trade? People just steal the horses then steal the iron then steal the buckets. Oh so interesting, that you need to patrol and lock away the resources.

at this point, we could nuke those old cities and return the natural state, it's just a bunch of pine floors and a noob trap.

every time you complain, oh let's just nerf it. You don't like fences, feast table and restrictions? nerf more so you use it anyway.
Somebody used it cause I told them to? oh then it must be a good change.

Legs · 2020-04-11 18:03:22

"Food surplus everywhere" reflects a changing meta more than anything. The game gets harder, people adapt, it seems too easy, so it gets harder again. There will always be a food surplus- until there isn't. People will make more efficient foods and ration water more carefully until it becomes impossible to keep the balance. That's what this process is about, it's jason tinkering until he finds out where exactly the game breaks. Then that becomes the standard.

So let's ask the question. When does this become unsustainable? How will the meta evolve as we reach that point?

Whatever · 2020-04-11 18:14:09

If jason comes to a town and sees:

there is a lot of water/oil, than he will nerf water/oil.
there is a lot of iron, than he will nerf iron.
there is a lot of food, than he will nerf food.

All of those happened in the past and they will happen in the future again.
We can not convince jason that he is fundamentally doing the wrong changes.

BUT we can decide how much food/water/iron we produce.
Do not produce more than you need, always produce barley enough for survival,
Teach other players about the invisible eye that will take away their stuff if it sees they have a lot.

pein · 2020-04-11 18:54:19

the problem is that he doesn't take into account the indirect nerfs
popcorn was an example, it was nerfed indirectly by the bonus removal cause it has more uses but low value
so the value gets even lower then it gets nerfed, while high-value foods don't get nerfed that much

now the roundup makes 1 pip foods better, but they don't have enough uses then it will be no change
a weird buff to some foods that if it gave an odd number then they give +1 not 0.5 so its a slight change

another indirect nerf is the soil from composting
the nerfs to water made composting worse since it needs water, so the main resource became water for it, but since soil needs water to be consumed, its really weird
like you need 4,5 water to make soil and then get 21 bowls, but you need to till that soil and keep 4 soil and 4,5 water for the next compost
any way to use it up you need 2 buckets of water so making too many became bad
it was the only thing that gave the town profit for the work

this basically halves the food value over time so its just a very fast death after the initial phase

not to intuitive since there is no visual or other confirmation, and no update notes ingame, if you play the same way you did then you get rekt

testo · 2020-04-11 19:47:55

The game has already turned into mass farming and making food, and big cities will never die for lack of resources at this rate anyways.

Nobody cares about oil because 1 decent player can secure a water supply for the whole server that lasts 2 hours.

If we want a decent challenge for the survival of the fittest type of game we need a factor scale of 0.25 or 0.2. As Leonard says, veterans will figure this out in two days and the game will have exaclty zero change. Even with the iron nerf and hungry work at least 2 towns were making engines 6 hours after reset.

Goodbye civilization building, game name should be "one hour, make food".

Elsayal · 2020-04-11 20:24:41

I'm sorry but where / when this happen ? I can't see any post related to this. Maybe I'm blind

pein · 2020-04-11 20:35:21

the change is that nobody cares about water anyway so it's just harder to get it for veterans, the rest of the people will die faster

no way to tell people what to do with the water so you annoy yourself without any thanks

fug · 2020-04-11 20:49:33

Food really should just be the next big rework as there's way too much variance related to skill and effort vs reward.

A bad shepherd will end up being a net negative on food by just refeeding sheep to get wool as fast as possible which just floods a pen with shit.

A good shepherd will end up being a net positive if they make sure to harvest both the meat and wool at the same time.

As an extreme in one life I ended up producing 92 mutton solo as a byproduct of me fixing and preparing wool for future net fixing. I'm out here casually producing 900~1100+ pips a life by just making sure to not be lazy and this isn't even counting the fish I'm catching.

Food should just straight up rot instead of requiring more and more effort from veterans to make up for the lower numbers. Me making 92 mutton would be incredibly harmful if it threatened to essentially waste a bunch of space if townies didn't use it up in a reasonable amount of time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then of course we have the issue of foods having whacky values anyways.

Omelet - 17
Fish - 18
Burrito - 18

Which of these is not like the other? The omelet has always been one of the worst offenders of effort vs reward. It takes absolutely no effort to go around and collect eggs which then give you one of the best food values you can get in game. Fish are now mostly family locked but require a bunch of time collecting worms, and burritos while taking more steps can be produced on a higher level.

In a world where we no longer are bounded by 20 pip values there should be foods like feast tables but they gotta make sense. If a feast table is worth less pips separate than it is together why would you make the table in the first place?

Buff the tacos, the stews, the sauerkraut, the french fries, and the salsas's of the world. Make more combo platter like meals which take time but are more rewarding.

Seafood boil! - Corn, shrimp, potatoes, lobster!
Cakes! - Sugar, egg, flour, vanilla?!

The point is we shouldn't be eating berries from early to late game. Food should slowly become more processed and thus be more pips overall while low tier food is left for Eves to snack on. Basically more effort should = more pips.

Gogo · 2020-04-11 21:50:34

If there's a boredom in big cities I suggest make something for that stage like contamination, no need to nerf previous stages which are quite challengeable.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-04-11 22:42:13

This change makes it that we will eat more foods during our lifetime, and that means we can make higher yum chains. Basically making yumming more worth it. An optimal way to live. I'm happy with it.

Léonard wrote:

This is just another dumb survival game.

Survival games aren't dumb. I'm here for the survival. There is a youtube chanel that review games in my country. Almost 2 years ago it reviewed one hour one life. The video started like this (translated):

"My first mother abandoned me without a word. I died of hunger after a few seconds after my birth.
I managed to chase my second mother in the woods for a while... she ran away, she ran away from me.
The third time I finally felt a substitute for the warmth of home's fire. And when I thought everything would somehow work out, my mother said honest and brutal words "we can't feed you all, some of you will need to leave when you grow up".
This is a survival game more difficult than life, because it strips the player of all delusions in every second of the gameplay."

This one video brought me to this game... People love survival games

This chanel recently made another video with top 10 the harderst survival games. Of course one hour one life was in there too. "in one hour one life, surviving the first 5 minutes is almost a miracle" .

Coconut Fruit · 2020-04-11 22:47:34

I'm still waiting for more survival-like things. Killing sadly was taken off, but maybe we will get wild animals that will attack us from time to time at some point? Would be cool.

Gogo · 2020-04-11 23:32:20

Animals could be lured to town if they smell meat. Roasted rabbit will produce visible heat, that will attract a bear, also a swarm of flies from dead animal bodies. To prevent it, the meat should be stored in house, it will make houses truly useful.

Also bears can eat muttons and rabbits, right now no animal is feeding itself. It will be fun to see that bears is not only chasing ppl, but also eating our foods. xD

Last edited by Gogo (2020-04-11 23:34:38)

The_Anabaptist · 2020-04-12 00:57:57

Big towns aren't fun. Why aren't they fun? Because they produce at a faster rate than what came before them. The game engine needs to be smart enough to realize that in this area, there is too much "x", and do something about it:

Too many berry bushes, send in the blackbirds to eat some of them clean.
Too many carrot plots, send in the wild sheep.
Too many domesticated animals, send in a hungry pack of wolves.
Too many buildings, send in a tornado.
etc.

Towns need a greater variety of disasters than merely running out of stuff.

The_Anabaptist

Léonard · 2020-04-12 00:58:32

Coconut Fruit wrote:

Survival games aren't dumb.

My reply is mostly a reference to Jason's old posts.

Ever since I joined this forum, Jason has always been ranting on about how he wants this game to be different from the rest of existing games.
He wants it to stand out from everything else and to be something unique.

jasonrohrer wrote:

why is this game not just a 2D Minecraft or a large-server Don't Starve?

From a very old reply of his lecturing me about why people shouldn't continue on their projects because towns that would merge together would allow people to avoid the old lineage ban.

He has always been very concerned about this.

jasonrohrer wrote:

And I also get that many people like a game with no challenge where you just do whatever you want. Minecraft creative mode is hugely popular, obviously. But I never played creative mode....
OHOL will never be a game where civilization and progress is easy, assuming that I can solve these design problems.
Your legacy will be hard-won.

jasonrohrer wrote:

If you want a crafting/building game where you can continue building the same thing forever, there are many options out there, including Minecraft. Why would I bother making yet another game that works this way?

jasonrohrer wrote:

They wanted 2d minecraft. But why, if I wanted to make 2D minecraft, would I stick this annoying hourly death mechanic, and baby-suicide-to-get-back-to-work mechanic in there? Surely, if you want a 2D minecraft, there's got to be way better versions out there.

You get the point.

You can look up his posts that mention minecraft or don't starve, it almost looks like an obsession, but a healthy one if you ask me.

Even to this day he still rambles about it, here's a recent quote:

jasonrohrer wrote:

I imagine that most of the people who want 2D solo crafting are playing Don't Starve already.

Though from reading this one I'm not sure how much of Don't starve he played.

Don't starve is in no way focused on crafting/building stuff, it's just a part of the game.
The true focus of Don't starve is literally in its title: survival.
That's the most important thing and the highest goal in this game: to survive.

To make my argument clear, in short, my point is that while Jason was so scared to make "2d minecraft" where survival is so easy that the only thing people do is build random stuff, he didn't notice that he's been making the game so much focused on survival that it's becoming Don't starve "with parenting or whatever".

And just to be clear, I don't hate survival games. I loved Don't starve.
I just don't like this game becoming one.
And for a reason I will explain below:

Coconut Fruit wrote:

I'm here for the survival.

I'm not.

The first time I heard of OHOL, I was intrigued and I checked out the steam page.
There I saw the trailer. It was amazing.

Both trailers in fact.
And to this day, it is still undeniable that one of the main selling points of the game was that you were gonna build stuff, build civilization.

Why else would you, as the creator, promise to stay one step ahead of your playerbase?
Why else would the second trailer be entierely focused on the number of craftable obbjects in your game?
And if you're still not convinced, just look up, it's written white on black:

One Hour One Life Forums
a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building

Survival was never meant to be the main focus.
Survival was meant to be just a part of it.

I wish you would have joined in early 2019.
Just before it all went downhill. You would have seen it.
It was paradise. One of the top best games I had ever played in my entire life.
I was hooked. It was perfect.
It was JUST the right amount of parenting, caring about your family and making connections before sadly saying goodbye, mixed in with an awesome civilization building part.
I had a blast learning everything there was to do in this game.
The trailer still brings me back to this day, it makes me nostalgic. It reminds me of this era.

And then one day, it all went downhill.
Jason decided overnight to do a complete 180 over his previous design philosphy and here we are.
He even admitted he lost faith in content a couple months ago:

jasonrohrer wrote:

Oh, there's one other huge problem. I set out to make the most comprehensive crafting game of all time. A small slice of the gaming populace loves huge crafting trees, but most people don't. It gives them the, "I'm never going to learn all of this, and why would I bother?" feeling.
[...]
Most people are not interested in learning the 25 steps it takes to make a fire. Most people aren't interested in learning to make 3000 (or 10,000, eventually) objects.
[...]
there's no doubt, in my mind, that it turns people away from the game.

Putting aside the validity of these statements regarding what people find or don't find interesting, I mean building things is literally the god damn main selling point in the trailers and I would hope most people know what they're buying, what could even be the problem?
I say most casuals give up because they join and have no idea how to be of use and don't know where to start (do note Jason's reluctance to even include a tutorial).
They feel useless. And making survival harder and making their environment harsher isn't going to help this issue at all.
Veterants have less and less time to teach new players.

But I digress, to conclude I'd like to say that if Jason is just going to make this a survival game from now on, he might as well start a new game and leave OHOL as it was instead of completely destroying it like he's been doing for a whole year now and trying to turn it into something it was never meant to be.

pein · 2020-04-12 01:47:21

I like crafting and trading and management, it has potential toward that

nothing is a requirement for nothing, nothing makes your life easier later on so the nerfs mean nothing
has higher levels, nothing you can do

the game might be too easy, I never die to hunger, but I don't have a goal to work for

the tech tree needs more elements, parallel techs, upgraded techs, eras, regional bonuses whattever

Coconut Fruit · 2020-04-12 02:05:13

I think only biome restrictions ruin this game. Without them we would have it all, civilization building, parenting and survival at once... and lots of fun. We could build without this bad feeling "this is sensless, we won't get rubber, or oil, or even if we do it's just an annoying thing to ask others for it or play in other fams just to get these things to our previous fam".

We have 4/5 families instead of 10 in different stage of tech which sux too.

Iron update isn't perfect either. It's pretty recent update and I already had multiple lives in multiple fresh towns where we had no iron veins, and there was nothing we could do about it, making another well site won't give us new iron veins even tho previous one gave us none... Or maybe my family just moved after making first well site? I can't know it and I can't find iron either if they moved. This feeling "this is pointless" is the worst part in this game to me.

wondible · 2020-04-12 02:26:03

Elsayal wrote:

pein wrote:
"There are still food surpluses everywhere. Food scale factor 0.5 (was 1.0), with eating bonus of 4 (was 2). This increases food pressure long-term, but not too hard for Eve starts."
Where did you saw that ?

Github changelogs channel in the game's discord.

Glassius · 2020-04-12 21:54:40

Coconut Fruit wrote:

"My first mother abandoned me without a word. I died of hunger after a few seconds after my birth.
I managed to chase my second mother in the woods for a while... she ran away, she ran away from me.
The third time I finally felt a substitute for the warmth of home's fire. And when I thought everything would somehow work out, my mother said honest and brutal words "we can't feed you all, some of you will need to leave when you grow up".
This is a survival game more difficult than life, because it strips the player of all delusions in every second of the gameplay."

That is the same video I get to know about OHOL from. I bardzo lubię Heda

Morti · 2020-04-12 22:47:37

Glassius wrote:

I bardzo lubię Heda

Do you live near the border of Poland and Germany, by any chance?
I've forgotten where you are from, Glassius, if you've ever said so.
I have become curious, lately, who plays this game, from where in the world, and their connection to it; how they learned about it.

Glassius · 2020-04-13 00:05:05

4 hours by car to Germany. You can see Joriom, me and Coconut Fruit are Polish. The mentioned video here: https://youtu.be/bVkKavTffwE

I am not playing since magic property fence was introduced. I dislike voodoo solutions and constant nerfing/fixing the game. However, I've developed some kind of Stockholm syndrome and keep reading the forum hoping the game will move forward. I was advertising it among my friends. But now, when someone asks me about the game "you only life an hour", I say honestly the developer stucked in the cursed circle of nerfing/fixing the game with gamechanging mechanics. I worry the number of players will decrease so much by the time he will start providing content again, the game will become not playable

AmberA · 2020-04-13 03:43:16

I played for a few hours today and starved quite a lot. I understand the reason for the update but I think it was made to be too restrictive.

From what I've seen, towns have a very difficult time creating enough food to support it's population. As an advanced player, I would choose to be the one to go out in search of latex and sulfur, etc. to keep the town from starving. I quickly found that the food in the wild is almost non-existing and you HAVE to have a full backpack of food before leading town otherwise you will starve, even on a horse. Berries don't grow back fast enough and they only fill like two pips so you have to clear a while bush to get full.

Usually an abandoned town is stripped of tools first, now it's stripped of food. I found a horse full of latex in the wild, exactly what my town needed to survived but starved on the way home because every berry bush was empty and every wild food was eaten between towns.

People spend their entire lives making pies and they get eaten so fast we can't keep up. Many people (especially new people) are eating the last carrot or killing the last sheep out of desperation to stay alive.

If I stay in town as a mother, I now have to make hard choices for the sake of the town's survival. A baby that doesn't respond is getting dumped in teh woods, we can't afford to feed an afk person. I get the message saying that a new player was born to me...if you can't cook or make stew I'm probably going to let you starve. I hate doing that but the town can't support you and I definitely don't have time to teach anyone.

This update really needs some balancing changes.

JonySky · 2020-04-13 09:08:45

Today I have played a life and I have to admit that I liked the food nerf, but it is not the solution ...

I explain: The food nerf only generates eating more and less time, logically this generates the reduction of food for the entire city, but nobody is able to know for sure how much food is in the city stock

also it is still difficult to starve to death in a city, it has only become a little more uncomfortable for everyone

I think that to do it well there should be problems in the harvests, animal migrations, plagues, years of good harvests and bad harvests ...

this would help to create food reserves and have to use property fences (maybe)

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-04-11 16:20:15

Food nerf

#2 2020-04-11 17:01:35

Re: Food nerf

#3 2020-04-11 17:47:20

Re: Food nerf

#4 2020-04-11 17:52:14

Re: Food nerf

#5 2020-04-11 18:03:22

Re: Food nerf

#6 2020-04-11 18:14:09

Re: Food nerf

#7 2020-04-11 18:54:19

Re: Food nerf

#8 2020-04-11 19:47:55

Re: Food nerf

#9 2020-04-11 20:24:41

Re: Food nerf

#10 2020-04-11 20:35:21

Re: Food nerf

#11 2020-04-11 20:49:33

Re: Food nerf

#12 2020-04-11 21:50:34

Re: Food nerf

#13 2020-04-11 22:42:13

Re: Food nerf

#14 2020-04-11 22:47:34

Re: Food nerf

#15 2020-04-11 23:32:20

Re: Food nerf

#16 2020-04-12 00:57:57

Re: Food nerf

#17 2020-04-12 00:58:32

Re: Food nerf

#18 2020-04-12 01:47:21

Re: Food nerf

#19 2020-04-12 02:05:13

Re: Food nerf

#20 2020-04-12 02:26:03

Re: Food nerf

#21 2020-04-12 21:54:40

Re: Food nerf

#22 2020-04-12 22:47:37

Re: Food nerf

#23 2020-04-13 00:05:05

Re: Food nerf

#24 2020-04-13 03:43:16

Re: Food nerf

#25 2020-04-13 09:08:45

Re: Food nerf

Board footer