A Matter of Trust

Crumpaloo · 2020-04-18 21:28:51

Public good through privatization of public hazards/necessity's does not work because sooner or later that which is private will inevitably become public, at-least within the confines of the current game state.

This is because people who see through the privatization of these entities live temporary lives and as such cannot ensure the permanent security of said entities without making them inaccessible for eternity via in-game mechanics. The most these people can do is ensure through out their life that these objects do not fall into the wrong hands (think knifes, diesel engines, women) but as already discussed their lives being temporary, the security that comes with the privatization of these entities will be temporary too as a result.

So what can be done about it? Well, pass them off to another person to continue the privatization of said entities. As you already know though, this comes with its own host of problems, mainly that of the TRUST one will have too see through what the person has asked of them. That is to say, how can i trust this person to do what i expect of them to do? Which is a hard question to answer.

The game itself is built on trust, but it is a very weak kind of trust, and a general one at that. Based off a assumption that everyone that plays is in it for the collective good, when that is certainly not the case.Which is why you see people on a day to day basis exploit this trust, by stealing, killing, and griefing as a result of this trust being so vast and yet so shallow. It includes everyone, even those that would seek to break it.

Which is why applying that same kind of trust system in a private manner is disastrous as it stands. Because the same people that grief public property of the villages will inevitably become the same people to grief private property, all because there is no definitive bases for which trust can grow on. One second you are giving someone you trust the ownership to the knife storage, the next they are using it to kill everyone and so on.

Now i dont got a solution to this problem, i got ideas, but not workable solutions, but what i do know is that for certain mechanics to work in this game the way i think they were meant to work, then we need more then just blind trust to guide us to a better result, even just a small thing would go a long way.

That all being said, what do you all think?

Coconut Fruit · 2020-04-18 22:06:36

I think I would want to know who to trust, but I don't if I'm busy doing things. There are tons of newbies that hardly can do anything, actually there is way more of them than players that actually know at least a few things that can help family survive. I don't want to give trust to people who don't know how to play, or even worse to griefers.

What I would like to see is something opposite to cursing. We can recognize cursed people right away, they have black text and black name with two random words (idk how does it work in vanilla client, probably they still can be recognized right away). If we had blessing or whatever, we could use it on trusted people, this way we could recognize them easier in next lives. I mean, without these 2 random words, so we still wouldn't know who they are, but we would see their names green and their text green, so we would know they are trustworthy.

I mean, system like this wouldn't be needed at all if more people knew how to play, but we play among tons of noobs who produce less than consume. That's the reason families have hard time surviving, not mentioning protecting things.

miskas · 2020-04-18 22:29:22

I like the property very much and I have made and actually Use a ton of them. ( for clothes, food , resource management, and animal breed storage)

The only fence I don't like is the city fences and I will explain the difference.

The bigger enemies of a family's survival are the griefers and the noobs. The griefers harm us through destruction and the noobs harm us through mismanagement.
They both are born into OUR family, If you make a property/storage of anything and give it to all your family(city fence) you essentially did nothing or in fact, you did worse because now you also have worsened the logistics of gatherers.

The advantage of a property is not that you will have a trustworthy person to manage something. It is really difficult and time-consuming to find such a person in the first place.
The advantage of a property is that you prevent access to the majority of the players. Cause even if you have only 1 bad player in your family, this bad player can eat up all the carrots or kill all the sheep.

Don't try to find a trustworthy person but try to find one person that is not this noob or griefer of your family and you will be fine.
-don't pick a kid, adults are coming with a proof that they managed to live past childhood.
-don't pick someone that eats more that 1 carrot or berries.
-pick someone with clothes
-don't look much, time is money or in our case time is food!
-(optional) dont pick a female, males have more free time to dedicate on work and property maintenance.

Last edited by miskas (2020-04-18 22:34:33)

Morti · 2020-04-18 22:34:56

Curses were a dumb thing to begin with.

That you think people play, solely to do harm, means you are blind.

Cursing a person that did harm in one life, when you have absolutely no idea how much good they would have done in the future or the past, only makes you more biased towards them, the next time you see their identifying names. But we have noticed, countless, unspoken times, that we were wrong to have cursed those people. That we, caused more harm to the stability of the game, by forcing them to be born away from us, for an entire month, which could have been hundreds of lives where they could have worked to help keep our civilizations working, just because they did something in one life, that you felt, warranted cursing them.

A knife can be used to cut bread or stab people.

Curses cause permanent instability in such a tiny community of players.
They will cause instability, on any scale.

It was never a good idea to begin with, not for a game that has a forum and discord, steam chat and other communities across the net, not for people who exist outside of the game and can communicate, reason, and forgive, each other.

We are, a small tribe of players. Every new person to the game, is one of our children. Don't exile anyone from this tribe, ever, for any reason, or the core, of this tribe, will not grow. Everyone can learn. Everyone can enjoy the game when they want to be loved and to feel loved. Anyone bored of it can play EVERY OTHER GAME IN EXISTENCE. Don't force someone that relies on that love tomorrow, but who wants to be mischievous for a life, or a day, to be forced outside this bubble of love.
It only gets smaller, when you do.

Curses were a mistake of the past, don't make them the mistake of the present, or the future.
Understand each other. Understand, we all get upset sometimes, we all have problems, but only we, can help each other.

Spoonwood · 2020-04-18 22:38:37

Coconut Fruit wrote:

What I would like to see is something opposite to cursing. We can recognize cursed people right away, they have black text and black name with two random words (idk how does it work in vanilla client, probably they still can be recognized right away). If we had blessing or whatever, we could use it on trusted people, this way we could recognize them easier in next lives. I mean, without these 2 random words, so we still wouldn't know who they are, but we would see their names green and their text green, so we would know they are trustworthy.

FeignedSanity wrote:

But why not also give incentive for going above and beyond the norm, if you have the chance? It's not about rewarding players for being decent human beings. It's about rewarding those that go beyond the bare minimum and promoting a culture where people are more than just decent. Like the person that spends their whole life teaching, and helping others. The idea is to try to promote a culture where people are more than just decent.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Well, I DO want to avoid artificially rewarding any kind of behavior. I'm not looking to create a "gold star" system here.
Part of the thesis of the game is that these things need no reward, because of the inherent nature of human reality. Not "human nature" outside the game, but the very structure of the game itself (individual lives are limited, etc.).
The "reward" comes in the form of existence as opposed to oblivion.

https://onehouronelife.com/forums/viewt … d=2502&p=2

Of course, what Jason says is nonsense. Just having a character exist inside of a game is rather empty, and will continue to be so, because mere existence of a player character in OHOL has nothing dynamic to it. Existence in real life is massively more dynamic and interesting than in OHOL, but mere existence as reward in and of itself isn't something that works out well as the basis of a sustainable philosophy in real life for masses of people. So, the notion that mere existence inside of a game could suffice for real interest is lacking in the extreme.

But, I thought it worthwhile to point out what Jason has said before here.

Morti · 2020-04-18 22:39:35

Only people can teach each other, to be better people.

pein · 2020-04-18 23:40:29

I mean, we would need some sort of rules that properties can't be around 20x20 of the well and can't be further from 40x40
then we would have a zone for the private properties

kinda like tropico pirate cove had this plots of land for each person
then you could upgrade them somehow

so the territory would be limited and cost you something
and the middle would be shared space with shared ownership

a marketplace would be nice so we can get out resources from the city, and get some in, and possibly step away from the resource-based crafting
time and work should convert into currency

I imagine this early Western-style city where people set up shop, then it would matter where you born, you shouldn't start over all the time, you could start with a shop of your parents and buy extensions and upgrades.

All crafting should be higher level, like combining 2 things into one then combining those to ore expensive things and so on, 3 level at first at least. Of course, you could gather from afar but maybe you should own a cart not just take it.

The city could also have a tax, everybody paying in and using those for upgrades.

jasonrohrer · 2020-04-20 16:33:47

Crump, that's a very wise post, and really tackles the heart of what this game is about (trust).

And yes, trusting the next generation to use the infrastructure and precious resources wisely is a stretch. Which makes it a perfect analogy for real life. As much as you'd like to reach out from the grave and shake some sense into your grandchildren, you just can't do it.

On your death bed, you can say, "Sonny, take good care of my 57 Chevy, and always change the oil, and don't ever sell it. Keep it in the family, okay?"

But for all you know, as soon as you croak, your 57 Chevy is getting listed on Craigslist.

Getting back to the game:

Long term, across many generations, trust obviously just doesn't work. Which is kinda the point.

We could imagine some kind of external trust-tracking system that would make this easier and more viable.... but then again, maybe it shouldn't be easier and more viable. Maybe it should be pretty much impossible long term. But that won't stop us from hoping and trying, right?

And in the very rare cases where it actually works---you get born back in the same village tomorrow and find that people are still maintaining the thing you set up, just as you intended---wow, that will be a precious and magical thing.

Morti, I hear you about curses. But what are the alternatives?

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-04-18 21:28:51

A Matter of Trust

#2 2020-04-18 22:06:36

Re: A Matter of Trust

#3 2020-04-18 22:29:22

Re: A Matter of Trust

#4 2020-04-18 22:34:56

Re: A Matter of Trust

#5 2020-04-18 22:38:37

Re: A Matter of Trust

#6 2020-04-18 22:39:35

Re: A Matter of Trust

#7 2020-04-18 23:40:29

Re: A Matter of Trust

#8 2020-04-20 16:33:47

Re: A Matter of Trust

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