Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

pein · 2020-04-30 01:00:27

jasonrohrer wrote:

Antking, I really like the thinking there.
There is already a DING when a visitor comes to your fence, so something similar could work here.
The solo kill idea idea is a really nice one..... but there's a small problem. The game doesn't currently "know" about property, in terms of what's inside and what's outside. A fence is just an unbreakable wall. A gate is just a tile that limits who can use it. You can use those things to make property, but there is no "property" in the game.
Now, there could be something where passing through a gate owned by someone makes you vulnerable to solo kills by them, and passing back through it again makes you not vulnerable again. That would work for most simple property layouts with one gate, but you could imagine it getting confusing for more complicated layouts.

All that said, I think there are other reasons people aren't making property beyond just these factors that make it hard to use..... property just isn't needed. They aren't using leadership either, right? And leadership has even been made somewhat automatic (your mother is your default leader, etc).
In the rift, property was needed, and everybody used it for a while there.

You think making and maintaining a gate is too much of a pain?

Have you ever tried making a diesel engine? Yet every town eventually has one of those, right? Because it's necessary.
Players are very quick to sort out the optimal, necessary things (no matter how complex or hard to use) from the sub-optimal, unnecessary things (no matter how simple they are to use).

I think that some of the recent food changes have made access control more necessary than it used to be, but perhaps not quite necessary enough.

I would really like to see a village layout with two guys in charge of farming a tightly-controlled patch of berries and carrots, and they deliver the results to the shepherds and bakers, who also tightly control their areas. The shepherd delivers wool to the clothing makers and mutton to the bakers, and returns dung to the berry growers.
If you're hungry, you will need to go to the "output window" of the bakery, and NOT wander through the berry/carrot fields helping yourself to a terribly inefficient snack.
Furthermore, each of these areas would "train up" apprentices to inherit them and keep them going for the next generation.

that's the only thing I think right now works:

initially made it or my horse, so people won't take it, especially that I walked a lot, made cart and saddle for it
the fence in middle since auto orient ruins it for the horse otherwise

I trapped a griefer who was running around the horse, had a posse of 7 and still run across him.

but then he tried to go in and take the horse so I let him in then close the door.

I think the most important thing would be having a purpose for fences, I can't name an activity that needs a static place. Even a berry farm would need say 20 bushes and 2 compost, a cistern. , also makes me feel claustrophobic, so that's like 7x7 or 9x9.
They won't last and can't be upgraded so you would need like 15x15 to build a room inside it.
A fully working fence for 6-10 people would be like 20x40 and hard to get rid of bones.

Right now you can do stew which is some work, and you don't really walk far from city. Maybe cutting boards but that needs butt logs. Also, no one steals buttlogs just ready boards.
Maybe pottery but that also mostly just the gathering of clay, making pottery takes a few minutes then it's not needed.

Other than that? why would you make yourself harder to move and sit in place when you can move faster when it's open?
Like we can't refine resources to higher tiers.

Would be nice to have inside of fence and ownership of items made inside it from scratch.

In the rift everyone died anyway, people camping in front of your door and you will run out of resources eventually, you can't progress without gathering. People on horses killed everyone, some males were left alive cause no reason to chase them.

Rope costs 4 water bowls and 4 soil. Making a box on the wall already too expensive. Higher tech rope for less water would be nice.

Leadership is based on meme things, not actual skill and those who have so much time to get followers are not working by the time so they are unfit to be a leader. A skill-based meritocracy could work with real advantages like leaders could make tasks, quests, remove things.

A city without berries, all newbies die in minutes. If you lock it up someone will make a new berry field. Berry seeds are way too easy to make.

Nobody enjoys sitting in a small place doing the same thing for 60 minutes. Maybe fishing but other than that can't think of anything. Especially not getting water for others sitting in a fenced well.
We would need higher value items that worth locking, like machines to make furniture which takes time to assemble.
Or carpet making. something that requires no resources just working, the main element would be the activity, not the resource.

Also, slots make it harder. Let's say I make a good setup.
I would need to smith the tools and the limestone, cut the boards, use stakes, adze, shovel, axe, mallet, hoe, plant the fields, make the cistern, the boxes on fences. Making a good system would require players with unlimited slots. And still, 90% of keeping up the system would be gathering and refilling those places. Then explaining to everyone.

I had the idea of beds that would refill stamina and people helping you would use their own stamina. Then beds would be a necessary thign to make for each person in the city, it could also be binded to a person when alive then would track the population. It would charge up stamina on it's own and then people using it charging themselves in a short time. We would need some sort of items that only work inside a fence/private room and would be a bad idea sharing it with others. Adding these items to rooms would give you bonuses you can't get from other places. Then we could have a room for each person or at least for each female and her kids until they grow up.

Blue tinker · 2020-04-30 11:25:47

jasonrohrer wrote:

The solo kill idea idea is a really nice one..... but there's a small problem. The game doesn't currently "know" about property, in terms of what's inside and what's outside. A fence is just an unbreakable wall. A gate is just a tile that limits who can use it. You can use those things to make property, but there is no "property" in the game.

Maybe opening a gate while not being an owner would
a) inform the owners about an unwanted guest
b) for a minute the owner could single-handedly kill the aforementioned player. That way there is still a way to steal from other people and getting away with it, which would encourage interactions between players. If the owner wouldn't manage to kill the thief, then they will most likely see the suspect (or an arrow would be pointing towards them, as it is now with visitors).

Not only that, but this system would fix the problem with hoarders. If many players decide to team up against the hoarding person, then he won't be able to kill most of them (with this system only the person who opens the gate). Yes, some groups of griefers could use it to steal but soon they would be killed one by one.

fug · 2020-04-30 15:39:25

Ran into Jason Jr today trying to fence up the town well AFTER the diesel well had already been stolen for an hour+.

We just took the fence down as it was useless and he started griefing the town because we wouldn't let him fence our well. Going to be nice when the posse changes come and we might be able to do something lmao.

The logic behind fences is currently flawed. "Put up fences because one of YOUR family members is going to eventually grief YOUR family. Fences make sense when the goal is to keep OUTSIDERS from stealing or messing with your shit but self sabotage? That's goofy.

Can anyone explain to me why a knee high fence is more difficult to remove or deal with than ruining the highest level of useful tech in the game? Why is this not a group decision or at least an elder note sort of thing? The fact it's harder to remove some twigs in the ground than it is to ruin an engine is just plain dumb imo.

This attempt to goad players into using fences for anything other than animal pens isn't going to work Jason.

BlueCramberry64 · 2020-04-30 19:30:56

jasonrohrer wrote:

I would really like to see a village layout with two guys in charge of farming a tightly-controlled patch of berries and carrots, and they deliver the results to the shepherds and bakers, who also tightly control their areas. The shepherd delivers wool to the clothing makers and mutton to the bakers, and returns dung to the berry growers.

The only time I ABSOLUTELY had to trade was similar to this. I was a ginger fisherman. Because I was distracted I got out of tool slots before getting the shear sloth to get wool to repair my fishing net. There were two shepherds working tirelessly to get wool for clothing so there was no way they would gift me a small ball of yarn. So i was forced to trade my fishes for some wool. Every time my net broke I would go back to them and exchange a fish for a small ball of yarn. It was fun.

I think it worked with fish because they are hard enough to catch that they will always be quite a luxury to get and are not essential for survival. I had tried to do the same with other foods but they are either to abundant, not portable in a bag (to be pocket change), or they are too sharable. That is why I couldn't do the same with the shrimp.

Caprys · 2020-04-30 19:50:36

I saw an engine inside a fence. And then it was gone. It's impossible to protect your engine. Maybe a hour or two and then it is scrapmetal. You can not know who can be trusted with gate ownership. It's like playing tetris. You will lose every time. You can not win. If I wanted to play tetris, I would be playing tetris. Jason grieved every veteran that ever made an engine. It is hard work and he made it possible to destroy it in two seconds.

fug · 2020-04-30 20:05:53

Caprys wrote:

I saw an engine inside a fence. And then it was gone. It's impossible to protect your engine. Maybe a hour or two and then it is scrapmetal. You can not know who can be trusted with gate ownership. It's like playing tetris. You will lose every time. You can not win. If I wanted to play tetris, I would be playing tetris. Jason grieved every veteran that ever made an engine. It is hard work and he made it possible to destroy it in two seconds.

Are you telling me fences don't actually work. *gasp*

Who would have thought that the people who want to grief engines are going to grief them regardless if there's a fence or not.

The fact a single fence requires a tedious process to rip down vs taking out an engine and instantly smashing it is just goofball design.

Elder note removal for engines or make fences just as easy to rip down or step over. thx.

pein · 2020-04-30 21:30:51

Yeah Jason, why can people remove an engine, but not a stanchion kit?
Now you gotta change that stanchion kit is removable from the well too?

Upgrades are the achievement of a city, if they manage to make a stanchion kit before they run out of water, that means they are decent. No different for Newcomen or engine tech.

Why you try to force high tech to be useless? why you allow ruining things with 2 clicks which need an hour to be made?

Casius · 2020-05-01 01:26:56

pein wrote:

Yeah Jason, why can people remove an engine, but not a stanchion kit?
Now you gotta change that stanchion kit is removable from the well too?
Upgrades are the achievement of a city, if they manage to make a stanchion kit before they run out of water, that means they are decent. No different for Newcomen or engine tech.
Why you try to force high tech to be useless? why you allow ruining things with 2 clicks which need an hour to be made?

In fair defense on the removal of the diesel engine being so easy, I just came from a life where we had full cisterns but were running low on iron.

So I used the last of our iron on chisels, and used the engine as a mining pick. I died of old age before I had a chance to return the engine to the well, but being able to quickly convert the engine into a pick helped us out a lot.

Removing the stanchion kit to make a deep iron mine isn't as necessary, since making a new one for the iron mine is MUCH easier than making a new engine for a diesel pick.

pein · 2020-05-01 03:07:08

All that comes from the iron change. We are having problems we did not have before, just for the sake of having problems.

The sugar pill is easier to swallow. The iron change didn't change the way we spend iron, or having iron problems at times, compared to water problems. All that did is having iron problem plus water problems. Basically Jason said that "regardless of what you do you die out faster".
Work and exploration don't matter and your surroundings are predefined to make you die sooner equally to everyone else.
Back before, at least we had some towns with a lot of mines nearby. Now we don;t, even the outposts are nerfed since the third town won't have iron.
Pretty much as an invisible rift, you can pass through but won't matter. And the population is a bad thing still, even worse than before. At least more people could explore more and get back more resources. Now you are limited to what you got, or maybe what dead Eve towns left.

And even so, using an iron engine is still just a convenience, you could get iron by riding far and wide, I'm quite sure it's still better to go around, get a horse, get iron from dead towns than using an engine to mine it.

On top of that, you are misordering it, and that's why you do it in the first place. Since you can't do oil, others have to do it for you. First would be the oil. Secondly, if you make the engine, you should gather enough to sustain your tool use and get enough for the second engine, before installing the engine on the well. That worked nicely. No reason to change that. Makes no logical sense. Just people complained about cars, so lets remove the engien from them, then he went a step further and let's remove the engine from the wells. Not enough that people can hide it, now they can even destroy it in a few seconds.

I'm no talking about necessity, I'm talking about gameplay mechanics. If they could run away witth your first stanchion kit, could kill the town, they do it already that they hide every bucket so you can't get water. But what is a difference between a family that fails early and one that survives? The one that fails, can't even make an upgraded well, cause of no tools, so they slowly use up all the pond water, and they get more food pressure.

Next up the Newcomen. Which is totally boring process, to use 30 belts to empty it. But at least they won't steal it. This time others have to do it for you as rubber and sulfur is needed for belts and quite a lot of work. Normies won't even do it iI a day, since the apocalypse most o towns died without an empty Newcomen. So if they can empty it at least, then they can either move or make engine.

And here was the main difference before and now. A town with an engine well could be revived, one without it was not worth it. And not just the well, a bad family used up his water without gathering much so people rather scavenged the town, a good town people moved in.
A family does not equal a town. Just as an example, old Lebbrasseaur is still there, still had iron to this day, and still a central city. Last time I checked even had food there.

It was so weird seeing huge cities with full boards and fenced pens died out, stripped of all iron while bad cities were active. And that's because the engine can be taken.At that point, I rather even have the old cities decay and nature take over, would take more investment ot get it running that is worth.

antking:]# · 2020-05-01 15:38:58

pein wrote:

what Pien said

but also Jason has contrary Ideas... He wants to slow down tech progression (races, tool slots) and that's all right that he doesn't want us to burn through all his hard work in the first day, but then he also makes things run out, so quickly that we have to rush forwarded because taking a break will lead to the death of the village, and because of Jason's to ideas of everything running out, and slowing down tech progression, we are stuck in a loop of, here another restriction to slow you down.... oh it seems that (blank) is unlimited and to easy to find lets put a cap on that, on their own this could have been fine, but with this everything runs out motive players are motivated to get as much out of the ground as fast as they can, which as I have stated before will cause Jason to drop a new restriction

pein · 2020-05-01 16:41:30

I mean I don't know if he ever checks the results of the nerfs, but I seen several people die due to how ineffective food making is. Like you eat 8 bushes? how can even a newbie fix 8 bushes for a full life every 8 minutes? Yum isn't really solving the issue, with around 20 yum, you get a decent break from eating, the most towns so far had like 8-12 foods, for me, who can even find it, when I run out of yum foods, I have to eat stew or turkey best case scenario but I found myself eating berry as well, the trick with pouches and bottles isn't that well known and you can't expect anyone to yum infinitely or make decent food to fill out the curve.
It's really unbalanced when the bonus wears off.

Personally I would enjoy renewable resources and work as the main gate to progress. It really should account for the number of (smart) worker and it should be a lot of upgrades and always need for more hands. Not like making things ineffective to a point where doing it doesn't even worth it, but more like a lot of expensive things to work for. The cap should be on time and the workers, not a fixed amount with an unlimited number of players. That is so backwards.

I even had this idea of making iron more important, by linking the well and the mine, basically, level 1 would be free, then level 2 well needs all the hourly production of iron mine and level 2 iron needs all the level 1 production of water, so it's actually a choice and time is factored, so you can slowly upgrade both but have one of them produce hourly. This could be extended with other mines and stuff. Fixed is just bad. Cause it's not dynamic for the number of population or the age of the city. We should never reach the highest tech levels in all areas but maybe one with a lot of work, so staying in a city actually means something, the achievements of your ancestors should matter positively too not just negatively or the generic way that you got -5 food bonus and no water at all and no ability to get iron mines even if you move.

If we don't get any other status bars like hp or stamina, it's hard to improve the conditions late game, and it's not fun having the same problems and the difficulty increasing while things stay the same.

The population could also be limited by tech and make it a good thing, so you always want to upgrade the population, make it worth it.
Like it could be that you need a bed in a room for each person after the first 3 people. This would allow better baby distribution and make rooms required, beds could also need an increasing amount of resources, and eventually higher-tech versions. Each unique player could contribute to an upgrade but one player couldn't do all the upgrade so it would matter if you got smart players willing to contribute or not.

Legs · 2020-05-01 16:56:11

Recently as a young adult I had +88 food pips overflowing from a full bar. I got hungry and ate several low-value yum foods in a row to multiply the bonus. Had 3 children without eating. The food rebalance doesn't feel too drastic with yum meta and an unbreakable chain.

Unfortunately people are still also munching berries and it's worse than ever. I see half naked adults eating SEVERAL bushes at once. Even if you try to talk to them they refuse to listen. Like what, you think I'm not gonna eat berries my whole life? What is this guy, an idiot? Every town has a four square of berries around the well at least, usually more. They're constantly refreshed and you get cursed even if you do manage to dig some up. Fencing them off doesn't work either, people want the berries so they'll never keep up a fence over time.

In general pein's right, these are just nerfs across the board. There's no right way to handle it. Fences don't help because the issue is systemic.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-01 17:49:18

Poor water decisions (like eating berries) wouldn't be that bad if we had more water. Wells get dry fast, people are too noob to even get water from ponds.
But at least it's not boring anymore, there are always so many things to do.

Last edited by Coconut Fruit (2020-05-01 17:51:00)

Spoonwood · 2020-05-01 18:07:34

antking:]# wrote:

pein wrote:
what Pien said
but also Jason has contrary Ideas... He wants to slow down tech progression (races, tool slots) and that's all right that he doesn't want us to burn through all his hard work in the first day, but then he also makes things run out, so quickly that we have to rush forwarded because taking a break will lead to the death of the village, and because of Jason's to ideas of everything running out, and slowing down tech progression, we are stuck in a loop of, here another restriction to slow you down.... oh it seems that (blank) is unlimited and to easy to find lets put a cap on that, on their own this could have been fine, but with this everything runs out motive players are motivated to get as much out of the ground as fast as they can, which as I have stated before will cause Jason to drop a new restriction

Yeah, it's a never-ending cycle of bullshit with internal inconsistencies.

One Hour One Life Forums

#51 2020-04-30 01:00:27

Re: Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

#52 2020-04-30 11:25:47

Re: Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

#53 2020-04-30 15:39:25

Re: Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

#54 2020-04-30 19:30:56

Re: Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

#55 2020-04-30 19:50:36

Re: Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

#56 2020-04-30 20:05:53

Re: Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

#57 2020-04-30 21:30:51

Re: Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

#58 2020-05-01 01:26:56

Re: Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

#59 2020-05-01 03:07:08

Re: Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

#60 2020-05-01 15:38:58

Re: Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

#61 2020-05-01 16:41:30

Re: Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

#62 2020-05-01 16:56:11

Re: Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

#63 2020-05-01 17:49:18

Re: Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

#64 2020-05-01 18:07:34

Re: Has anyone tried using fences like Jason says?

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