Wow, posse system really worked

jasonrohrer · 2020-05-04 23:12:24

Well, to be precise, the "min posse size" system, which was added after the posse system already existed. The No Solo update on February 14 is clearly visible in this graph:

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Bobo.

Cantface · 2020-05-04 23:27:12

Noooo don't bait him more lol.

fug · 2020-05-04 23:28:48

Doesn't include how many engines they've scrapped or animal related griefing. Where griefing has shifted from just murder now it's just about ruining the highest tech in game because of how horribly designed diesel recycling was made.

Cantface · 2020-05-04 23:42:04

fug wrote:

Doesn't include how many engines they've scrapped or animal related griefing. Where griefing has shifted from just murder now it's just about ruining the highest tech in game because of how horribly designed diesel recycling was made.

Yeah I saw his engine scrapping video....oof. So much scrap iron it hurt my soul. :C

JonySky · 2020-05-04 23:43:30

Bobo killed 20 people with a small group of 3 people in various cities ... he has also destroyed 11 engines in a video of 2 minutes and 30 seconds (he could even have done it much faster) ... this shows many deficiencies and problems in Ohol ...

Is this how Ohol should be played?
What if OHOL becomes popular and other "Bobo´s" appear?
Do you think the solution is to continually nerfy all the game mechanics?

Do not look the other way Jason, Ohol has many problems that must be solved, and a graph is not the solution

Last edited by JonySky (2020-05-04 23:44:33)

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-05 00:20:22

Yeah, we have less killing now, but were all kills bad before? How many of them deserved to die? How many of them asked to be killed just for fun?

You removed killing as a way to grief while at the same time added possibilities to grief in many other ways.
People feel impunity, thiey grief more in worse ways.
Killing was a harmless way of griefing, it didn't hurt towns, nor families as long as they had fertile women.

Organized team can kill whole families whenever they want now, but that's cool you feel happy about the number drop of killing.

I feel so powerless when I see people griefing, I hope you happy about it too.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-05 00:30:00

Yeah, we definitely have more griefing now. Griefing ruins this game and people's experience.

Crumpaloo · 2020-05-05 00:35:14

If 99 players say something is wrong and 1 dev says its right, is it right? Griefers benefited from the posse system YOU made, griefers benefited from the scrap mechanic YOU implemented, and griefers benefited from war-swords YOU put into the game when noone asked.

Forget Bobo your the biggest griefer in your own game and you dont know it.

antking:]# · 2020-05-05 00:37:43

yah its great that no Griefers are being killed

sigmen4020 · 2020-05-05 00:38:30

JonySky wrote:

Bobo killed 20 people with a small group of 3 people in various cities ... he has also destroyed 11 engines in a video of 2 minutes and 30 seconds (he could even have done it much faster) ... this shows many deficiencies and problems in Ohol ...
Is this how Ohol should be played?
What if OHOL becomes popular and other "Bobo´s" appear?
Do you think the solution is to continually nerfy all the game mechanics?
Do not look the other way Jason, Ohol has many problems that must be solved, and a graph is not the solution

The fact that you can scrap so many engines so quickly is utterly ridiculous. If we assume every engine took 30 mins to make, then that means that Bobo destroyed 5 hours and 30 minutes of work in as little as 2 minutes and 30 seconds.

Proof that the engine scrapping is utterly pointless to anyone but those with less than noble intentions.

Legs · 2020-05-05 00:39:07

It's interesting how the no-solo update (effectively removes killing) has combined with the homeland and family specialization updates (forcing families closer together). Everyone is closer together and clumped into a handful of towns, which greatly increases the effectiveness of cursing. Meanwhile, cursing has become the only way to address any kind of grievance with another player. Without the option to kill, people curse much more frequently and it's resulted in a LOT of innocent players in donkey town. Without being able to kill a griefer however, can we really balance curses properly? Either the griefers get away free and clear, or innocent players are condemned by curse abuse. There's no middle ground in no-solo. Posses simply don't work. Consider this: if a posse-sized group of griefers wanted to, they could easily banish any individual to donkey town by all cursing them. They could do this two times an hour every hour to anyone they want without anyone ever even knowing. Isn't that great.

pein · 2020-05-05 01:05:22

you could basically disable combat fully and the graph would show 0 kills
by your logic that would be a perfect solution

basically there are less kills but just because people can't form a posse, but the kills that happen are way more frustrating since there is no defence against it, and if you think mob rule always right then that is also a problem

as they said, kills don't hurt towns, destroying items does. as long as the females don't die, it might be frustrating but not the end of the world.

griefers flex around caus there is nothing you can do. they drop items in bad biomes, they run around with a stolen horse, taunting you all day, you care they don't, you need to feed the family, you can't guard them all day long.

also, the griefers come from inside not outside so even worse.

people killed because they were bored, they still try to stab others just they can't, you don't need a graph to know that

Spoonwood · 2020-05-05 01:15:42

Jason got thrown a link to Bobo's channel here:

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/606

The latest videos by Bobo Bill which feature greifing by domestic boars, his gang going on a murder spree, and now scraping of many engines, as others have *already* referred to in this thread, show the above statistics rather meaningless.

Clearly, Bobo is someone who can adapt his playstyle to play in destructive ways which don't involve him using a weapon to kill another player.

There is no solution to prevent such a player from doing such things, while enabling them to play. It's either pure cowardice to not ban someone like Bobo who openly acknowledges playing for destructive reasons which have nothing to do with the advertised intentions of the game, because there is no courage whatsoever with respect to doing the right thing, or the advertised intentions of the game are deliberately lies. More likely the latter, since the dev has NOT been trying to stay one step ahead of the players as advertised in the trailer.

Don't bother playing.

jasonrohrer · 2020-05-05 01:19:23

Shall I turn the posse system completely off, and then you guys can go back to solo killing to your heart's content, and we can go back to a 25% daily victimization rate (on the worst days, 1/4 players were the victim of a murder)?

Remember, those 25% days were WITH slow-down for solo posses, and WITH 12-second warning periods, etc. Not to mention all those other things that were added long ago (death stagger, healing, murder weapon stuck-in-hand, slow-down after murder, etc.) Even with all these things in place... all these things that made it so hard to land a kill (supposedly), 25% of the playerbase ended up getting murdered each day.

I never thought murder in the game was a problem. The player community complained about it incessantly.

Now the player community complains about the lack of murder incessantly.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-05 01:33:40

I would say, yes turn it off, together with the waiting period which only benefits experienced griefers.
And also boost healing pads so we get 3 from a single fleece.

Times have changes, people won't be killing because there is nothing to do and they are bored. In these times there are always so many things to do. Griefers will kill innocent people sometimes, but we will be able to defend against them. Most of the time griefers will be the victims... And people who ask to be killed just for fun. I believe we would have much less griefing.

Last edited by Coconut Fruit (2020-05-05 01:34:18)

fug · 2020-05-05 01:40:23

Yeah, just rip the whole new combat system up and go back to the days when players had the player agency to actually defend themselves. The problem with combat before the posse change was because of the war sword and you not wanting to nerf something completely OP. The idea clearly wasn't thought out at all and because of that the game suffers to this day.

Every other weapon had cooldown + stagger of a minute meaning if you stabbed someone in town they couldn't run very far. Add in the fact we now have !'s to show where someone is attempting to attack someone/injury someone and an actual working curse system and it'd be much better than the current system. Posses favor players organizing outside of the game due to the bad in game communication we currently have making things more in favor of the bad guys.

The problem isn't "hurr durr, not enough murder in game" it's we can't actually use murder as a tool to remove trolls while they can still use it to abuse regular players. As I said elsewhere how is raising the posse limit going to help when I can't even get 3 people to form a coherent posse? I have no yet once killed a troll since the /die change and instead have just been killing myself because why would I want to deal with that?

What these graphs show is that griefing has swapped from just stabbing people to other things like engine destruction (another terrible idea btw) and animal griefing.

The fact a village can't stop a solo griefer in this version of the game is just plain dumb.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-05 01:43:43

I mean, waiting period helps innocent players too, but we have healing pads to heal them, right?
In the end it does much more harm, because griefers have much more use of it.

fug · 2020-05-05 01:49:26

I mean does it though? If three people target you (you know posse kill limit) you go from 12 second wait for like 3 seconds (aka you're dead.)

With movement slowdown + wait time the only viable weapon is a bow (if the opponent is stupid) or a knife on someone not paying attention (aka noobs who don't know they're being attacked.)

Even in the current game you can't kill most people solo in the wilderness due to the combination of slowdown + wait time and the only people who die to that are new players.

Revert combat where both sides were on equal footing instead of this system that buffs griefers instead of the good guys.

Spoonwood · 2020-05-05 01:50:21

jasonrohrer wrote:

blah blah blah

Again, there is no solution. None of your changes will affect Bobo. And the information about what Bobo does, doesn't come primarily from other people telling stories. It comes from Bobo's own YouTube channel. Banning such a person is about all that will work.

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-05 02:00:39

I can't agree with you Spoonwood. With a realistic killing system all he could do is to try stealth grief. But once I see this happen he better not enter the town again. Even if he had an organised group, majority was always winning vs minority in old days.

fug · 2020-05-05 02:03:21

You also can't exactly sneak back into a town you were murdered in if you have a big black text box over yourself. Beforehand, you could just sneak back into the town and continue griefing due to anonymity nowadays you can keep tabs on trolls and would be able to stab them on sight.

Morti · 2020-05-05 02:10:58

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-05 02:11:54

Forgiveness system (/uncurse) should also come together with this. So people can rehabilitate and get uncursed when needed.

Spoonwood · 2020-05-05 02:25:27

Coconut Fruit wrote:

I can't agree with you Spoonwood. With a realistic killing system all he could do is to try stealth grief. But once I see this happen he better not enter the town again. Even if he had an organised group, majority was always winning vs minority in old days.

Did you see the videos where they destroyed multiple engines?

Or the ones where they released domestic boars on the outskirts of town?

Lightning · 2020-05-05 02:57:50

I don’t think some of you guys are thinking your words trough enough, everything you say to Jason could have a direct impact on the game overall, Either it being a good change or a bad one. Being impatient and demanding a fix immediately can make Jason prone to more mistakes and overall a worse quality of gameplay.

I’m not necessarily setting the current ”griefing issue” as the main example but it’s a recurring issue in the forums, where I can see that The proposed changes , aren’t even though enough. Do you remember why the waiting period of 6 seconds (later on changed to 12 seconds) was added for, fug?

It was so that the players could have some more time to react to incoming threats. Nowadays I see how it’s pointless mechanic against groups of Griefers Such as with bobo’s group, but it served an actual purpose back in the day.

Also organized griefers can keep going back to places where they left a mess before, at least eventually, and continuing the “circus alive” . that’s where the curse system can aid if done properly, but it becomes powerless against people with multi accounts.

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-05-04 23:12:24

Wow, posse system really worked

#2 2020-05-04 23:27:12

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#3 2020-05-04 23:28:48

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#4 2020-05-04 23:42:04

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#5 2020-05-04 23:43:30

Re: Wow, posse system really worked

#6 2020-05-05 00:20:22

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#7 2020-05-05 00:30:00

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#8 2020-05-05 00:35:14

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#10 2020-05-05 00:38:30

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#11 2020-05-05 00:39:07

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#12 2020-05-05 01:05:22

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#13 2020-05-05 01:15:42

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#14 2020-05-05 01:19:23

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#15 2020-05-05 01:33:40

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#16 2020-05-05 01:40:23

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#17 2020-05-05 01:43:43

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#18 2020-05-05 01:49:26

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#19 2020-05-05 01:50:21

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#20 2020-05-05 02:00:39

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#23 2020-05-05 02:11:54

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