New idea for killing

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-08 01:46:09

jasonrohrer wrote:

Thank you for your patience as I work myself to death each week trying to make the best game imaginable.

Damn, I'm very glad for that. Many of us love this game, and we want it only get even better over time.
Spend time on making this game better and not worse, please

Lightning · 2020-05-08 01:52:43

pein wrote:

Why don't you add a Hp system? a non-lethal combat?(...) Players with more HP and a lot of tools used as weapons would win.
A different combat system? Some honour to the fights?

Why do you keep pushing the subject of Hp system and combat into the table, he just wont do it, he has already talked about the matter a couple times already, and its probably for the best anyways, this game aint about generic combat systems, for that you got PLENTY of games to choose from, games that could be better suited to your likings... than just a modified version of OHOL for combat purposes.

Last edited by Lightning (2020-05-08 01:53:30)

MrGold · 2020-05-08 02:04:35

Warswords redo when?

Cantface · 2020-05-08 02:10:04

Lightning wrote:

Dont even mention it, Cantface, its all right, i can understand the reason behind your saltyness, i think we are all a bit on our nerves with all this trouble, aint we? ¿who wouldnt though?, it surely can be a dissapointing, seeing such an unique game being just torn apart and stitched back up, over and over, it puts just even more stress in the already annoyed community, some people just want to enjoy the game ...you know?
Changing a bit the subject, letting you know that you did some great work with those fan arts drawings, and i would encourage you to keep doing so, they were pretty well made.

You put how I feel about the game into words very eloquently, you hit the nail on the head! It's only because I'm so attached to ohol that I care so much really. If I didn't I wouldn't be here.

No worries there I'm still working on more fanart regardless of how I feel, I'd have major art block otherwise lol! Thank you for the positivity you're such a sweetheart I appreciate you bro.

pein · 2020-05-08 02:31:39

Lightning twistedfangirl2002 wrote:

pein wrote:
Why don't you add a Hp system? a non-lethal combat?(...) Players with more HP and a lot of tools used as weapons would win.
A different combat system? Some honour to the fights?
Why do you keep pushing the subject of Hp system and combat into the table, he just wont do it, he has already talked about the matter a couple times already, and its probably for the best anyways, this game aint about generic combat systems, for that you got PLENTY of games to choose from, games that could be better suited to your likings... than just a modified version of OHOL for combat purposes.

Pull back your head and wash your tongue with soap.

Two sliders can only give that much variety, 3 or more give more variety.
We don't have content, we won't have content. Doesn't matter how complex it is when it doesn't work and feels flat.
Same as the temperature revamp didn't work. That 0.1 heat bonus still not a logical reason to block yourself in buildings.
It had a wall of text and a lot of code but in reality, does not give anything worthwhile.

Intention based combat system makes no sense and will never work, as these calculations won't guess intentions anyway.

We got an HP system, you got exactly 1 hp. That's generic as well. It's like any roguelike game and none of them multiplayer. It's like having 2 hours of foreplay for 1 minute of action.

I'm fine with unique as long as it works, but the whole reason of having this system is "tried it once, I couldn't kill the other person" so let's give 100% advantage for the attacker. That was the most bullshit update and removed content from the game, had a wall of text next to it and no logical arguments.

Same as the posse system topic shows a graph that we dropped to 10% cause it's more complicated. Then remove all kills and will be 0, then is better based on this logic.

If griefers do more destroying than kills than it's already a problem, but hey, it won't affect you cause you won't create endgame stuff anyway. Kills affect you so you care about that. Generic subjective response.

You can also play club penguins.

Kills won't affect the towns. Lives are worthless, that's a whole other problem.
And badly intended noobs can flex with their shitty skills, that won't change if they don't need skill at all.

Legs · 2020-05-08 02:49:24

To people asking jason for reverts back to previous iterations, before new contrived and unwelcome systems:

It will never happen.

Jason is a thoroughly independent developer and he answers to noone. Not even the player. There are a lot of poorly implemented mechanics shoehorned into a game that doesn't welcome them. That's fine, from his perspective. To make them work he'd have to have made the game fundamentally different. It's an experiment for future development. It clearly doesn't work in this game. That's fine, it's not the point. The point is to experiment and try out ideas for future titles.

This is his most successful game by far. It's already produces much more than expected. Might as well milk the golden goose, right?

Spoonwood · 2020-05-08 02:53:22

jasonrohrer wrote:

Cantface, do you think it's a good idea to pile new content on top of a game where existing systems are broken and unused?

Yes, because it would be doing what you said you would in the trailer, instead of lying about your intentions.

jasonrohrer wrote:

If you keep doing that, you end up with a game that keeps growing and growing, but remains broken at the core.

The game is broken at the core. There are no permanent bans for accounts used to harass and annoy other players. There is no fatherhood. Players can't choose much with respect to their initial conditions. There is no birth control that players within a town. There is no baby sling. Player characters get restricted on the basis of their race and population. Tool usage gets restricted on the basis of player population. All servers run on the same system. The temperature system is just plain awful, without having any neutral temperature spots on the map naturally. And lineages can't survive updates.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Better to get all the existing stuff working correctly and actually used before adding even more stuff.

If Jason meant this, he wouldn't have released the game without lineages having the ability to survive updates. And without fatherhood in the game.

jasonrohrer wrote:

As a simple example, I could have added a bunch of new foods to the game a few weeks ago, but that would have been a waste, because so many of the existing foods were completely unused. Much better to spend time getting all the existing stuff rebalanced, and rework YUM along with it. And suddenly, formerly dead and ignored food content is being actively used in the game again.

No. There was NEVER a time that yum was dead and not used by players.

jasonrohrer wrote:

Thank you for your patience as I work myself to death each week trying to make the best game imaginable.

Again, another lie. The best game imaginable concerns many imaginations. The game is a one-person project, not something the result of many people's imaginations.

Spoonwood · 2020-05-08 02:58:23

Lightning wrote:

pein wrote:
Why don't you add a Hp system? a non-lethal combat?(...) Players with more HP and a lot of tools used as weapons would win.
A different combat system? Some honour to the fights?
Why do you keep pushing the subject of Hp system and combat into the table, he just wont do it, he has already talked about the matter a couple times already, and its probably for the best anyways, this game aint about generic combat systems, for that you got PLENTY of games to choose from, games that could be better suited to your likings... than just a modified version of OHOL for combat purposes.

Pein's idea of a hitpoint system is leagues beyond what Jason has done before. There's no reason for him to stop talking in light of that.

Sure, there exist other games with them. They are leagues better in terms of combat.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-05-08 02:58:40)

Spoonwood · 2020-05-08 03:05:54

Oh... also hungry work is another broken feature of the game. It never made sense for anything else than juniper trees, maple trees, poplar trees, and yew trees. Mostly as a way to prevent newer players chopping trees of certain types. It especially didn't make sense for cypress and willow trees, nor for iron mining.

The trailer talks about technological development. Tying hungry work to iron mining shows that 'staying one step ahead of the player' is the lie that it is.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-05-08 03:11:23)

JonySky · 2020-05-08 09:13:00

Spoonwood wrote:

Oh... also hungry work is another broken feature of the game. It never made sense for anything else than juniper trees, maple trees, poplar trees, and yew trees. Mostly as a way to prevent newer players chopping trees of certain types. It especially didn't make sense for cypress and willow trees, nor for iron mining.
The trailer talks about technological development. Tying hungry work to iron mining shows that 'staying one step ahead of the player' is the lie that it is.

'staying one step ahead of the player' hahahaha the meaning of this phrase in OHOL means: I will modify some values in some tables of the programming code for a whole week to solve a specific problem that I have imagined

If next week I think this imaginary problem has not been solved ... I will be here for another week, modifying more values in the tables

See: rift, pose system ...

Catfive · 2020-05-08 09:53:14

Spoonwood wrote:

Lightning wrote:
pein wrote:
Why don't you add a Hp system? a non-lethal combat?(...) Players with more HP and a lot of tools used as weapons would win.
A different combat system? Some honour to the fights?
Why do you keep pushing the subject of Hp system and combat into the table, he just wont do it, he has already talked about the matter a couple times already, and its probably for the best anyways, this game aint about generic combat systems, for that you got PLENTY of games to choose from, games that could be better suited to your likings... than just a modified version of OHOL for combat purposes.
Pein's idea of a hitpoint system is leagues beyond what Jason has done before. There's no reason for him to stop talking in light of that.
Sure, there exist other games with them. They are leagues better in terms of combat.

I like that hitpoints idea yep!

JonySky · 2020-05-08 10:11:51

Catfive wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Lightning wrote:
Why do you keep pushing the subject of Hp system and combat into the table, he just wont do it, he has already talked about the matter a couple times already, and its probably for the best anyways, this game aint about generic combat systems, for that you got PLENTY of games to choose from, games that could be better suited to your likings... than just a modified version of OHOL for combat purposes.
Pein's idea of a hitpoint system is leagues beyond what Jason has done before. There's no reason for him to stop talking in light of that.
Sure, there exist other games with them. They are leagues better in terms of combat.
I like that hitpoints idea yep!

Years ago I was an addict of the game "heroes might and magic", the combat mode was great and I think it could fit OHOL very well ...

Logically you need to work and want to implement it, it is not something that can be done by modifying values in a table

I suppose that if this were possible, time should stop within a combat

But it would be great to have different skills with the races, and it depends on the work you have done, having other skills and advantages

Last edited by JonySky (2020-05-08 10:17:02)

LunyTerror · 2020-05-08 11:13:05

Why not add a feature that allows leaders to target a griefer as in making them "wanted as a criminal" which let's everyone who follows that leader kill this griefer without a posse.

Arcurus · 2020-05-08 12:45:40

LunyTerror wrote:

Why not add a feature that allows leaders to target a griefer as in making them "wanted as a criminal" which let's everyone who follows that leader kill this griefer without a posse.

isnt that nearly what the new system does if you exile one? dont know if the exiled person is marked for others, but for sure they can kill him if they want.

Dantox · 2020-05-08 13:51:29

jasonrohrer wrote:

Cantface, do you think it's a good idea to pile new content on top of a game where existing systems are broken and unused?

The game officially launched in steam on November of 2018. and i am pretty certain the game had already release a while before launching on steam via your website. Dont know for how long though.

How is that, after almost 2 years, are you still working on making the core game mechanics function properly?

Crumpaloo · 2020-05-08 14:13:09

JonySky wrote:

Catfive wrote:
Spoonwood wrote:
Pein's idea of a hitpoint system is leagues beyond what Jason has done before. There's no reason for him to stop talking in light of that.
Sure, there exist other games with them. They are leagues better in terms of combat.
I like that hitpoints idea yep!

Years ago I was an addict of the game "heroes might and magic", the combat mode was great and I think it could fit OHOL very well ...
Logically you need to work and want to implement it, it is not something that can be done by modifying values in a table
https://images.mironet.cz/foto/3/90710787/12605.jpg
I suppose that if this were possible, time should stop within a combat
But it would be great to have different skills with the races, and it depends on the work you have done, having other skills and advantages

Creative ideas from the community that are ultimately gonna get ignored.

Last edited by Crumpaloo (2020-05-08 14:27:13)

Lightning · 2020-05-08 15:25:59

pein wrote:

Lightning twistedfangirl2002 wrote:
pein wrote:
Why don't you add a Hp system? a non-lethal combat?(...) Players with more HP and a lot of tools used as weapons would win.
A different combat system? Some honour to the fights?
Why do you keep pushing the subject of Hp system and combat into the table, he just wont do it, he has already talked about the matter a couple times already, and its probably for the best anyways, this game aint about generic combat systems, for that you got PLENTY of games to choose from, games that could be better suited to your likings... than just a modified version of OHOL for combat purposes.
Pull back your head and wash your tongue with soap.
Two sliders can only give that much variety, 3 or more give more variety.
We don't have content, we won't have content. Doesn't matter how complex it is when it doesn't work and feels flat.
Same as the temperature revamp didn't work. That 0.1 heat bonus still not a logical reason to block yourself in buildings.
It had a wall of text and a lot of code but in reality, does not give anything worthwhile.
Intention based combat system makes no sense and will never work, as these calculations won't guess intentions anyway.
We got an HP system, you got exactly 1 hp. That's generic as well. It's like any roguelike game and none of them multiplayer. It's like having 2 hours of foreplay for 1 minute of action.
I'm fine with unique as long as it works, but the whole reason of having this system is "tried it once, I couldn't kill the other person" so let's give 100% advantage for the attacker. That was the most bullshit update and removed content from the game, had a wall of text next to it and no logical arguments.
Same as the posse system topic shows a graph that we dropped to 10% cause it's more complicated. Then remove all kills and will be 0, then is better based on this logic.
If griefers do more destroying than kills than it's already a problem, but hey, it won't affect you cause you won't create endgame stuff anyway. Kills affect you so you care about that. Generic subjective response.
You can also play club penguins.
Kills won't affect the towns. Lives are worthless, that's a whole other problem.
And badly intended noobs can flex with their shitty skills, that won't change if they don't need skill at all.

I have no business in talking to a guy, who clearly lacks the mental maturity and capacity to debate their said ideas, over the current know facts, that begins responding with comments to mock the other person...just an overall waste of time to even bother...

jasonrohrer · 2020-05-08 15:27:48

LunyTerror wrote:

Why not add a feature that allows leaders to target a griefer as in making them "wanted as a criminal" which let's everyone who follows that leader kill this griefer without a posse.

That's exactly what was added this week. Exile 'em and then bag 'em without a posse.

Dantox wrote:

How is that, after almost 2 years, are you still working on making the core game mechanics function properly?

How could it take less than two years?

Dantox, how many persistent online multiplayer games have you shipped? How successful were they?

Game design is hard.

This is a brand new design space, unlike any other game that ever existed in several ways, which means there are no ready-made solutions to the problems that we're facing. I can't just copy how Rust did things (an excellent multiplayer survival game), because in that game, everyone lives for a full week, and you don't have complete strangers getting "born" right into the middle of your private base, begging for food.

Yeah, let's copy the combat mechanics of HoMM, which is a single player, turn-based game. Let's make that work in a multiplayer, realtime game. Let's stop time every time combat occurs...?

A LV 11 GRIEFER APPEARS

Even the best-sounding ideas don't often work in practice, once implemented inside a persistent multiplayer game....

I spent 11 months tweaking The Castle Doctrine after launch. It was also a brand new design space, but quite a bit smaller and simpler and easier to wrangle than OHOL. After 11 months, there were certain problems that simply could not be solved. Every once in a while, all these years later, a little idea about TCD will pop into my mind---a solution! But then, upon closer examination, I realize it won't work after all.

And I'm pretty sure there are fundamentally unsolvable problems in OHOL too. The idea, in the face of such problems, is to find the best possible solution. It's like trying to find the best polynomial-time approximation algorithm for an NP-hard problem.

jasonrohrer · 2020-05-08 15:39:00

Also, the people who say that I never take suggestions from the community are just expressing sour grapes because their favorite idea wasn't used.

The leadership system was pretty much designed entirely by Kinrany.

The life tokens by Twisted. Also the idea of homelands. And probably bottles, somewhere along the way.

The non-infinite map experiment (Rift) was inspired by Dodge.

The idea of tying killing to the leadership system came (this week) from StrongForce

Liquid Refreshments were suggested by DestinyCall (like the milk and broth pouch)

The food overhaul was designed with input from Fug, Twisted, and Miskas.

Way Stones were proposed by SirCaio

Remember, it's up to me to decide which ideas should be included in the game. Also, if you call me an idiot every other post, or keep harping on the same idea over and over, I tend to stop listening to you.

Arcurus · 2020-05-08 15:45:05

jasonrohrer wrote:

Game design is hard.
...
I spent 11 months tweaking The Castle Doctrine after launch. ....
And I'm pretty sure there are fundamentally unsolvable problems in OHOL too. The idea, in the face of such problems, is to find the best possible solution. It's like trying to find the best polynomial-time approximation algorithm for an NP-hard problem.

lol, hope the problem of game design can be "reduced" with the quantum Grover’s algorithm

"How can quantum computing help to solve NP-hard problems?"
https://www.quora.com/How-can-quantum-c … d-problems

just was thinking these days if elements from Castle Doctrine could be integrated in OHOL. Like traps with that you can hide your treasure, or some kind of dungeons... of course first then we wouid need some treasure to hide like silver coins...

also interesting would be some integration with "sleepisdeath", like some trustworthy veterans could get story telling rights....

Just some thoughts....

Lightning · 2020-05-08 15:48:36

jasonrohrer wrote:

The non-infinite map experiment (Rift) was inspired by Dodge.

jasonrohrer · 2020-05-08 15:53:51

Are you forming a posse, Lightning?

Arcurus, I'm a quantum computing skeptic....

Lightning · 2020-05-08 16:03:05

jasonrohrer wrote:

Are you forming a posse, Lightning?
Arcurus, I'm a quantum computing skeptic....

Maybe ? , nah im just messing, its just that i didnt knew that he was the one who "inspired" the whole experiment, it probably was along with other people aswell, but you mentiond him as the "father"... interesting... to say the least.

Arcurus · 2020-05-08 16:03:25

jasonrohrer wrote:

Are you forming a posse, Lightning?
Arcurus, I'm a quantum computing skeptic....

lol yea looks like Lightning is forming a posse to hit Pein like an lightning ..
But maybe its the name Pein ... sounds little bit like Kain, so it could be kind of biblical karma ..

Not sure if quantum computing will be the rescue, but the subconsciousness seems to work quite similar, so there is a hope that it can break down NP-Hard problems.... the hope dies at last....

Dantox · 2020-05-08 17:07:54

jasonrohrer wrote:

Dantox, how many persistent online multiplayer games have you shipped? How successful were they?
Game design is hard.
This is a brand new design space, unlike any other game that ever existed in several ways, which means there are no ready-made solutions to the problems that we're facing. I can't just copy how Rust did things (an excellent multiplayer survival game), because in that game, everyone lives for a full week, and you don't have complete strangers getting "born" right into the middle of your private base, begging for food.

I dont know where are you trying to go with that question, i have never made a game in my entire life, that doesnt mean i am stupid as to not understand how game design works.

All these systems that you have added have failed greatly in some aspect, Posse made griefing more dangerous and organized than before (Dont know now with the recent changes, hopefully you prove me wrong in this one) Family specialization was supposed to bring trade to the game which ended up just making families donating each other the items because of convenience (even though this update ruined the freedom of the players). War swords were meant to bring family conflicts to the game which just ended up making griefers raid villages until they were nerfed to the ground (Even you have admited to wanting to revisit them, even if the whole concept of war no longer makes sense since you need other families to survive) And because you wanted to push the use of property fences you made the engines. One of the most tedious things to craft in OHOL one of the easist to grief. which ended up with lots, lots and lots of engiens destroyed this last week. The food overhaul is kind of nice because you have reasons to make other foods. But being a new and old player kind of sucks really bad. New players doesnt understand what is happening and why they are being yelled at for eating berries and old players no longer have the time to teach because the town needs constant supply of yum foods to surviva another 10 minutes.

My problem is not that you are still trying to figure out how these mechanics should work, but my problem started when everytime you added one of this systems you stripped something away from the players. All because you wanted to force a mechanic into the game that wasnt neccesary in the first place.

One Hour One Life Forums

#51 2020-05-08 01:46:09

Re: New idea for killing

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